How is 2nd different from 3rd?

[xBlackWolfx]

I do have one question about the hero system, in the game it appears that you dont actually use the number given to your attributes, the numbers you use in calculating your chances of success are actually your attribute divided by 5. why is that? arent the attributes themselves used for something directly without modification?

[Mr Mole]

I do have one question about the hero system, in the game it appears that you dont actually use the number given to your attributes, the numbers you use in calculating your chances of success are actually your attribute divided by 5. why is that? arent the attributes themselves used for something directly without modification?

Slightly Oversimplified Answer: Because the base stats are used for any number of different calculations... Not just stat/5, although that is certainly the most common.

There isn't much that's easy when explaining the "why" of Champions. There've been six editions now over the course of three decades, with some details remaining untouched and others being totally revamped. It's a complicated history...

There was a version of Champions published as a joint venture between Hero Games and R Talsorian years ago called "Champions: The New Millennium" that did away with a lot of those older parts of the system and tried to make it streamlined. The new system was called "FUZION." You can probably find the basic rules on the internet, if you look.

There's also now the "Champions Live" version of the game.

...And for those who read this and don't think Champions is pertinent to M&M, Mr Kenson first wrote up the characters of Freedom City using the Hero System (4th edition, I think). He used to have the information and write-ups on his website, but I think it disappeared within the last year or so... Pretty sure I have a copy on my computer, if I take the time to track it down...

[saint_matthew]

There was a version of Champions published as a joint venture between Hero Games and R Talsorian years ago called "Champions: The New Millennium" that did away with a lot of those older parts of the system and tried to make it streamlined. The new system was called "FUZION." You can probably find the basic rules on the internet, if you look.

Oh god, i'd forgotten about the New Millenium stuff.

There's also now the "Champions Live" version of the game.

Oh please tell me thats a LARP game, because i would LOL so hard.

And for those who read this and don't think Champions is pertinent to M&M, Mr Kenson first wrote up the characters of Freedom City using the Hero System (4th edition, I think). He used to have the information and write-ups on his website, but I think it disappeared within the last year or so... Pretty sure I have a copy on my computer, if I take the time to track it down...

Less pertinent to M&M, more pertinent to Freedom City.

[Mr Mole]

There was a version of Champions published as a joint venture between Hero Games and R Talsorian years ago called "Champions: The New Millennium" that did away with a lot of those older parts of the system and tried to make it streamlined. The new system was called "FUZION." You can probably find the basic rules on the internet, if you look.

Oh god, i'd forgotten about the New Millenium stuff.

To my thinking, the rules weren't bad, but the 90's Iron Age theme was annoying as... Well, it was really annoying...

Just one in a very long list of RPGs I used to own...

[saint_matthew]

There was a version of Champions published as a joint venture between Hero Games and R Talsorian years ago called "Champions: The New Millennium" that did away with a lot of those older parts of the system and tried to make it streamlined. The new system was called "FUZION." You can probably find the basic rules on the internet, if you look.

Oh god, i'd forgotten about the New Millenium stuff.

To my thinking, the rules weren't bad, but the 90's Iron Age theme was annoying as... Well, it was really annoying...

I never got to the rules, because the material was so 90's.

[saint_matthew]

oh god, i just watched the commerical for champions live on the kick starter... Um, dude, that looks... so dumb. I tink maybe the producers have missed the point of LARP. LARP is about reducing the amount of interference between player & system... Needing a stop watch & complex rules to play the game, flies in the face of that concept.

This looks less like a LARP & more like the table top game, minus the table & chairs.

[xBlackWolfx]

i just read a review of fuzion on rpgnet, looks wierd and clumsy.

[Doresh]

oh god, i just watched the commerical for champions live on the kick starter... Um, dude, that looks... so dumb. I tink maybe the producers have missed the point of LARP. LARP is about reducing the amount of interference between player & system... Needing a stop watch & complex rules to play the game, flies in the face of that concept.

Did you honestly expect one of the most complex and crunchiest rule systems to turn into a narrative, rules-lite LARP system ?!

i just read a review of fuzion on rpgnet, looks wierd and clumsy.

I wouldn't take those rpg.net reviews at face value. I myself stumbled upon a review (of "Stars without Number" if you're interested) were it was obvious that the reviewer didn't read the whole rules and completely missed the point about what kind of game the rules support .
So I'd advice you to just read the Fuzion rules (and the supers plugin) yourself. They're free after all

[saint_matthew]

Did you honestly expect one of the most complex and crunchiest rule systems to turn into a narrative, rules-lite LARP system ?!

Kind of, yeah. I was kind of expecting them to try to make the best game they could.

[xBlackWolfx]

Did you honestly expect one of the most complex and crunchiest rule systems to turn into a narrative, rules-lite LARP system ?!

Kind of, yeah. I was kind of expecting them to try to make the best game they could.

how the hell is a superhero larp supposed to work anyway? playing characters who wear medieval armor and carry swords is one thing, but playing characters that can fly, read minds, run at the speed of light, teleport, pass through solid matter, etc etc? how could that possibly work?

[saint_matthew]

Did you honestly expect one of the most complex and crunchiest rule systems to turn into a narrative, rules-lite LARP system ?!

Kind of, yeah. I was kind of expecting them to try to make the best game they could.

how the hell is a superhero larp supposed to work anyway? playing characters who wear medieval armor and carry swords is one thing, but playing characters that can fly, read minds, run at the speed of light, teleport, pass through solid matter, etc etc? how could that possibly work?

I would assume that had it been done well it would have been done as a combination of a skill based boffer larp like Nero Alliance, with a system not disimiliar to there magic system, plus just a little vampire the masquerade thrown in for some of the strange effects.

[Doresh]

Did you honestly expect one of the most complex and crunchiest rule systems to turn into a narrative, rules-lite LARP system ?!

Kind of, yeah. I was kind of expecting them to try to make the best game they could.

They are used to making books big enough to stop high-caliber rounds. I fear this IS the best game they could.

[Mr Mole]

They are used to making books big enough to stop high-caliber rounds. I fear this IS the best game they could.

I don't recall them ever using anything I'd call high-caliber rounds...

The test stopped a .22LR and .44 black powder rounds... Didn't stop .45ACP or anything bigger...

The official conclusion was that it was good for anything from .22 (non-magnum) on down...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Wmj46S5qo

In M&M, it'd only be worth 1 or 2 ranks of protection...

[Cinder]

hahaha. I am enjoying this ridiculous conversation, but sooo off topic.

[Doresh]

@Mr Mole:

That test was from 5th edition. 6th edition has almost twice as many pages, with additional hardcover layers because of the split in 2 books. I'm sure it can take higher calibers now