Nations of Freedom

[Kreuzritter]

nah, you guys shjould be fine. its the players/owners who'll have to worry about him taking hostages to force the prevention of a lockout

[King Snarf]

You know, this is the kind of book that could benefit from the extra material PDF that M&M has done before. Say, the Canada chapter has one or two heroes, then M&M comes out with a Team Canada PDF, which has a bunch of PL10 superheroes written up for the Freedomverse setting that players can use as their own characters, or the GM can use as additional NPCs.

[Crinos]

The way I do international heroes is that I just create the hero first, then assign them a country. And maybe include one or two related to their country.

I mean not all American heroes are Captain America.

[wolfkook]

Maybe it would be nice that instead of making a book for each country, we may have a book for each continent: That would make 5 different books (Perhaps an extra one for fantastic locations), with each book having a description of the region and subregions (Middle-east, India, China, north and far east for Asia, for example), a description and a bunch of superheroes for "major" nations, and at least one superhero for each of the "minor" nations (Or a bunch for each region, if there are a lot of nations).

As for nation stereotypes, perhaps it would be interesting to look at superheroes from the different nations, and draw some inspiration from there: For example, Octobriana is a russian superheroine made by russians in russia, and the Wraith was created in Australia. Jalila, and a bunch of other characters, were made by AK Comics, an Egyptian imprint. There are a lot of comic book characters in India (Nagraj, for example) and Phillipines (Bayan Knights), and there are interesting imprints in France (Semic), Mexico (Azteca Productions).

This project remembers me of a fanfic project I have, of creating an alternate JLI: I ended up with a main lineup of Miss America, Captain Canuck, Captain Britain, Capitan Italia, Superdupont (France), Vormund (Germany), Wind Dragon (From the JLA animated series / Japan) and Octobriana (Russia), and a secondary lineup consisting of Aztek (Mexico), Black Panther (Southern Africa), Jalila (Middle East), Masada (Israel), Nagraj (India), Southern Cross (Australia) and Rayden (From Mortal Kombat / China).

[hermes]

I thought I might weigh in on the issue of stereotypes. On a personal level, I love 'em! With the particular group of players that I have, I would be taken to task if I didn't include some. Besides, the Silver Age side of me (which isn't so much a side as it is the whole thing) loves pulling out all the classic comic book cliches and conventions. Our games tend to be relatively light-hearted and fun, with everything generally painted in broad four-colour strokes. That being said, we still have plenty of serious moments, even going so far as to evoke some pathos on occasion. And I certainly recognize that some people don't like that style of game at all--and that's cool.

I set my campaign firmly within the Freedom Universe, though in my own homebrewed Canadian city. As you might expect, I do have a handful of stereotyped heroes and villains (who are clearly Canadian, but not necessarily so much so that they're silly). However, the vast majority of characters that I have created aren't particularly linked to Canada in any way. I would think that most of my villains would be equally at home in the United States, or even other parts of the world, with little or no modifications needed (in much the same way that most of the existing Freedom City heroes and villains work just fine in a Canadian setting).

I think a Nation sourcebook should definitely have at least some, if not most, of the characters be tied strongly to the host nation. Otherwise, what's the point in having a Nation sourcebook? Now, that doesn't mean they have to be cliched or turned into caricatures. Not all Canadian heroes, for example, need to have beaver emblems or cold-using powers. Often its the background story, the personality, or the motivations of the character that can evoke the National "flavour" that's needed. But the occasional Mad Maple never hurt anybody...figuratively speaking, that is.

I think a healthy mix of obvious and subtle would be ideal. But that's just me.

[Batgirl III]

I don't mind national iconography and imagry in "National Heroes," what I mind is blatant sterotyping and charaicature. I want Captain Britain and Night Runner, not B'wana Beast and El Dorado.

[The One Phil]

I have to agree with pretty much everything Hermes has said, there's definitely room for a certain amount of cultural stereotyping in a game based on comic books. Blatant caricature should be kept to a minimum, but its part of the fabric of comic books universes that there's an element of it going on.

Speaking for myself, I'd probably roll my eyes a bit if a Nations of Freedom segment set in the UK was entirely made up of characters called things like Union Jack, the Welsh Dragon, Braveheart, etc - but one or two of them wouldn't hurt (and would be very much in keeping with established comic book universes which FC has always gently homaged).

That said, I'm pleased to see the community here get excited about this idea. I've felt for a long time its a product that I'd love to see and I hope Jon and Steve pick up on the excitement in this thread and make this happen. Hell, if they want to try and get a real feel for different parts of the world they have a vibrant community right here spread far and wide who can help them shape the World of Freedom.

[King Snarf]

I don't mind national iconography and imagry in "National Heroes," what I mind is blatant sterotyping and charaicature. I want Captain Britain and Night Runner, not B'wana Beast and El Dorado.

I thought B'wana Beast was an American?

[Batgirl III]

I don't mind national iconography and imagry in "National Heroes," what I mind is blatant sterotyping and charaicature. I want Captain Britain and Night Runner, not B'wana Beast and El Dorado.

I thought B'wana Beast was an American?

B'wana Beast I was Mike Maxwell, an American who worked as a ranger in Tanzania. A special potion gave him animal fusion powers and whatnot. Then he puts on his magic helmet and dresses like a technicolor, theme-park Zulu. He then operated from his secret lair ontop of Mr. Kilimajaro... which is inexplicably located in the middle of a rain-forest jungle and no where near any cities, the people of Moshi must be very confused. To me B'wana Beast I essentially embodies the Mighty Whitey trope of "being better at being African than the Africans." Fercrissakes, he was called "the White God of Kilimanjaro" in his debut appearance in 1967!

B'wana Beast II, aka Freedom Beast, was Dominic Mndawe. A South African arrested by white Afrikaner policemen (and the narrator specified they were "white Afrikaner policemen") for taking pictures of racially motivated acts of violence being committed by other "white Afrikaner policemen." Maxwell transfers his powers to Mndawe, Animal Man and Freedom Beast then go on to stop a massacre of peace protestors by yet more "white Afrikaner policemen." All of which is really frelling strange/offensive to me as (a) B'wana Beast II debuted after the end of apartheid, (b) no Afrikaners are shown as supportive of the anti-apartheid protestors, and (c) the message has moved from "Mighty Whitey" racism to one of "Acceptable Targets" racism.

Freedom Beast still dresses in the loin-cloth and magic helmet costume, but colorists decided to darker the palette... I guess they were trying to make him and edgier Grim Nineties Action Hero?

[King Snarf]

Well, B'wana Beast was awesome in Batman: The Brave & The Bold cartoon, so I'm giving him a pass. Also, one of the VERY few examples in popular culture of a mixed race couple featuring a white guy and an African-American woman.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Well, B'wana Beast was awesome in Batman: The Brave & The Bold cartoon, so I'm giving him a pass.

They did change his origin to take off a lot of the Mighty Whitey.

[King Snarf]

Well, B'wana Beast was awesome in Batman: The Brave & The Bold cartoon, so I'm giving him a pass.

They did change his origin to take off a lot of the Mighty Whitey.

Honestly? His B&B origin is SO much better. It should be made canon. PROFESSIONAL GORILLA WRESTLER!!!

[Pierced Geek]

Yeah, B'wana Beast is kinda sketchy. Though his appearances in the 'Brave and the Bold' cartoon were great.

However, aparthied wasn't officially aboloished until 1990 in South Africa, and it wasn't until the multi-racial elections in 1994 that a lot of people consider it to have really ended. Freedom Beast's debut in ANIMAL MAN was July of 1989. Also, it's not as though the transition was exactly easy.

Those Grant Morrison issues of ANIMAL MAN tended to be rather heavy handed regarding some of the issues it addressed.

That said, I'm not sure that I'd consider B'wana and/or Freedom Beast to be a character that I'd think of when considering "National Heroes."

[Crinos]

Heck, B'wanna Beast is actually fairly tame compared to some of the international characters they have made. Mother of Champions anyone?

But to be fair, there are some international DC heroes that are okay. Like Jannisary for example. She's pretty cool.

[Batgirl III]

The majority of national themes heroes from both major companies is fine, and they've both been quietly "memory hole-ing " the most obnoxious leftovers of the 50s and 60s, or reinventing them as dynamic characters. But this is an area that should be approached with caution, that's all I am saying.