How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

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Arkrite
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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Arkrite » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:07 pm

I don't know about an area attack
thaumonuclear wrote:
Nizkateth wrote:We're discussing leaping now.
:P
The rules don't stay it, but I'm pretty sure jumping to the moon should leave a pretty hefty crater so the character should get a free area damage effect.
Normally I'd disagree with this as you shouldn't get a free effect.
Of course, if what was said before is true, it'll take you an entire month to get to the moon by jumping, so if they weren't smart enough to move out of the way in all that time I'd probably just let it happen ;~)

I mean, you were out of play for an entire month, that's gotta call for some kind of dramatic entrance!

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Inscribed » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:25 pm

Since where on the subject of moon travel, can Space travel get you to the moon? Or is that 'too close' for that mode of travel?
Cause I would totally make a character that 'jumps' to the different planets, and it would be nice to be able to jump to the moon as well.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by thaumonuclear » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:31 pm

Arkrite wrote: Of course, if what was said before is true, it'll take you an entire month to get to the moon by jumping, so if they weren't smart enough to move out of the way in all that time I'd probably just let it happen ;~)

I mean, you were out of play for an entire month, that's gotta call for some kind of dramatic entrance!
Landing, sure you have a month to prepare, but it takes just as much force to take off, so you'll leave craters on both sides of the jump.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Arkrite » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Well Space Travel has about three different settings and the first one is "Within the solar system" so I'd say you could use it to "jump" to the moon. Or any other moon/planet/asteroid in our solar system.

Though technically you'd have to get into space first before you can use the space travel, but based on what this thread has said it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
thaumonuclear wrote:Landing, sure you have a month to prepare, but it takes just as much force to take off, so you'll leave craters on both sides of the jump.
Try to avoid jumping to the moon from your own front door, gotcha. ;~)

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by thaumonuclear » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:52 pm

Inscribed wrote:Since where on the subject of moon travel, can Space travel get you to the moon? Or is that 'too close' for that mode of travel?
Cause I would totally make a character that 'jumps' to the different planets, and it would be nice to be able to jump to the moon as well.
Given how long it would take to fly there with typical levels of Flight, I'd say Space Travel is the way to go.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Monolith » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:00 pm

Inscribed wrote:Since where on the subject of moon travel, can Space travel get you to the moon? Or is that 'too close' for that mode of travel?
Cause I would totally make a character that 'jumps' to the different planets, and it would be nice to be able to jump to the moon as well.
1 rank of space travel gets you to planetary bodies in the solar system.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Cyborgsamurai » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:07 pm

Inscribed wrote:Since where on the subject of moon travel, can Space travel get you to the moon? Or is that 'too close' for that mode of travel?
Cause I would totally make a character that 'jumps' to the different planets, and it would be nice to be able to jump to the moon as well.
Yeah I've seen it a few places actually. Asura's Wrath has a boss battle where both parties jump from the surface of the Moon to the Earth. The comic Tom Strong has Tom Strange "running" across the galaxy (i.e. he jumps from astral body to astral body) over the course of 10 years. Insane idea, but I loved it.

I suppose the next question is one of throwing/knockback. Doesn't appear that the 7 rank speed limit applies there from my reading. That lends itself to the (relative) silliness of throwing someone to the moon, having them arrive in seconds, you jumping after them, and arriving a month later.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by rlwr » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:52 pm

so instead of leaping somehow make an ability where you throw yourself... got it.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Kyle » Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:41 pm

rlwr wrote:so instead of leaping somehow make an ability where you throw yourself... got it.
That reminds me of one game I ran where a player created a character who was able to mystically manipulate gravity, and would travel long distances by altering gravity around him so he would fall in the direction he wanted to go. I think the idea of a superhero constantly falling everywhere across the city was a lot more comical in my head than it was in his.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Nizkateth » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:52 am

rlwr wrote:so instead of leaping somehow make an ability where you throw yourself... got it.
Flight, Instant -2?
For 10 power points you can hurl yourself 4000 miles as a move action?
Telekinesis [2/Rank], Damaging [+1/Rank], Duration - Instant [-2/Rank] = 1/Rank power that can do both ranged damage, or move things at range in one burst.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by rlwr » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:46 am

perfect, side note this forum could benefit from a like thumbs up or some such.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by HappyDaze » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:15 pm

thaumonuclear wrote:
Inscribed wrote:Since where on the subject of moon travel, can Space travel get you to the moon? Or is that 'too close' for that mode of travel?
Cause I would totally make a character that 'jumps' to the different planets, and it would be nice to be able to jump to the moon as well.
Given how long it would take to fly there with typical levels of Flight, I'd say Space Travel is the way to go.
Well, Space Travel doesn't give a time in transit (or, speed) so it could be instantaneous teleportation, or it might take hours, days, weeks, or longer.

With Flight ranks like we see in DC Adventures, there are heroes that can make it to the moon in 4-8 hours. That's fast compared to RL spacecraft, but slow compared to most SF ships. Admittedly, most M&M campaigns don't regularly have characters boasting Flight 14/15 like DCA does.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Narsil » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:42 am

I'm going to have to join this debate on the side of science, partly because Madwand could do without the entire thread being opposed to him, and partly because from a rules-specific interpretation he's not actually all that 'wrong'.

In the latter case, the lack of friction and microgravity allowing a character to travel faster by acceleration in a straight line is something that I would allow as a circumstance bonus. You remember those? They make up maybe a third of the game, remember. Because honestly, if you're going to ignore the more environmentally based circumstance bonuses, here's what else you'd be ignoring;
  1. People can jump higher and move faster in lower gravity, as well as lifting objects that would previously have been too heavy. This isn't because they have extra traits that weren't there before, but because the existing traits mean something slightly different when the environment is changed.
  2. Electricity conducts through water, so a wet person might take a +2 to +5 extra damage when being hit by a bolt of lightning, and a bolt of lightning striking a body of water might produce an area effect.
Is allowing for real science that hard next to those? Because I honestly don't think it is.
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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Nizkateth » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:31 am

No one is saying you can't fly faster. We just seem to be saying:
"that's what Space Travel does"
and
"it's actually cheaper than buying enough flight to accelerate to a high enough speed to reasonably travel between planets/systems, especially as an AE."

So, rather than add in a whole thing where you figure out the acceleration rate of an abstract movement system, just go with the even simpler abstract system of Movement 1-3 (1PP, as an alternate effect off flight).
Telekinesis [2/Rank], Damaging [+1/Rank], Duration - Instant [-2/Rank] = 1/Rank power that can do both ranged damage, or move things at range in one burst.

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Re: How much Flight is needed to reach escape velocity?

Post by Cyborgsamurai » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:16 pm

To be fair - the argument seemed to have largely arisen out of HOW Madwand was debating more than his point. I.E. folks attempting to make arguments based on game rules interactions and Madwand countering physics thought experiments. It's also debatable how much of it could be considered "ganging up" on him (assuming he's a guy.) He put out an open challenge for folks to "prove" you could model physics with a constant measure of speed (knowing no one would be able to), all the while ignoring the fact that folks were consistently telling him that they weren't really concerned with that beyond game rules.

As far as the circumstance bonus thing goes - good point. What're you're thoughts? Infinite acceleration, ignoring whole time dilation and gravity issues as the local equivalent of wind shear and atmospheric density and all the other minutiae that's ignored for planet-side flight?

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