Strength Power Profile is live!

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Greyman
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Greyman » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:35 pm

Walking Dad wrote:I would liked to also have "affliction" in there to make them a trinity. All of them should also have an "Instant" option, like Damage, Healing an Weaken. There should be a possibility for Prof X like characters to alter memories for more than a minute (the time you take to recover from Afflictions out of combat).
Likewise for Spiderman to leave thugs cocooned to a street pole without the webbing dissolving just as soon as he leaves the scene; or for the Gray Gargoyle to be able to sell "amazingly lifelike statues" to art collectors.

Two ways to resolve the issue come to mind.

The first is to reintroduce Lasting; either as an extra or as the default mechanism. The third tier condition of Lasting Affliction would remain until a resistance check was made; allowing additional checks each time rank starting at one minute, with a cumulative -1 penalty for each check. Ref: second edition's Sustained(Lasting) duration.

The second is to use a narrative resolution rather than a dice mechanic. Rule that while heroes do recover heroically after the scene (unless a Setback ensues), and villains will escape at the first opportunity (it's not a Complication if it's expected in genre), Minions don't recover so easily. They remain affected until they get help, recover after a suitable period, or just plain remain affected. Whatever works to advance the story.

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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Steve Kenson » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:51 am

Greyman wrote:The second is to use a narrative resolution rather than a dice mechanic. Rule that while heroes do recover heroically after the scene (unless a Setback ensues), and villains will escape at the first opportunity (it's not a Complication if it's expected in genre), Minions don't recover so easily. They remain affected until they get help, recover after a suitable period, or just plain remain affected. Whatever works to advance the story.
This, for what it's worth, is how I tend to handle such things.
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Walking Dad » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:04 am

That is worth enough for me, sir! Thanks!

A honor you look at my question!

BTW, can you also give your personal opinion to the Transform in an array issue? Will everything affected revert instantly or not (duration increased to continuous)

Thanks again! These two questions are (were?) my major headaches with the system.
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Steve Kenson » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:16 am

Walking Dad wrote:BTW, can you also give your personal opinion to the Transform in an array issue? Will everything affected revert instantly or not (duration increased to continuous)
Continuous Transforms are intended to last until they are reversed by another effect. So the result of a Continuous Transform should last even after the effect is switched to an Alternate Effect within an array (the same for Continuous Create).
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Walking Dad » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:25 am

Thank you so much! Great to see the "big guys" to give their thoughts to us "mortals".

I still miss an official rules question thread, like the old one for 2nd edition. But good to see you guys in the forum :D
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Belial666 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:01 pm

Umm, doesn't the third condition of an affliction remain until a save is made anyway? The 1 minute recovery just says how often the save is made, right?

If not, 3rd degree of failure is kinda useless. Just limit an affliction to 2 degrees but with extra contition for the same total cost, and put Stun+Disabled or Compel+Disabled on the 2nd degree instead. With -6 penalty to rolls (including, say, your resistance roll) and Power Attacking someone to make the save higher, you can easily make an affliction that an enemy can never resist once it has taken hold. Permanent stun (or permanent compel) is worse than death (since Ressurection or Immortality can't help you there)
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Saltcrow » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:07 am

I have a question regarding the Strength Boost power in the profile.

How does it really work? What type of action does it take to 'activate' the boost? If it was a Free action (as the base Enhanced Traits indicates) then the Fades flaw doesn't really kick in now (since one can reactivate the power every round), does it?

This is the first instance of seeing a non-reaction based Enhanced Traits with Fades so I am rather befuddled D: Halp me!

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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Greyman » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:46 am

Enhanced Trait is Free activation, Sustained duration, effect. You just need to take a free action each round to use it; that's all "a moment’s concentration" means. And of course, you just need to stop using the free action to deactivate it.

Boosted Strength is Enhanced Strength with Fades. As per the handbook, page 147, effects with this flaw loose one rank of effectiveness on each round of use, and stop working at 0 ranks until recharged in some manner. The recharge event (rest, repair, reload, spinach, etc.) is set when you build the power; but just turning the power off and on again is simply too easy to be allowed.

Your confusion may be in thinking that it's the activation itself that recharges a Fades Reaction Enhanced Trait. However, that's not the case; it's just that the recharge and trigger usually happen to be the same events. This is allowable because you can't turn such an effect off to conserve ranks (well okay, you can, but you can not turn it back on at will).
Last edited by Greyman on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Saltcrow » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:11 am

Greyman wrote:Enhanced Trait is Free activation, Sustained duration, effect. You just need to take a free action each round to use it; that's all "a moment’s concentration" means. And of course, you just need to stop using the free action to deactivate it.

Boosted Strength is Enhanced Strength with Fades. As per the handbook, page 147, effects with this flaw loose one rank of effectiveness on each round of use, and stop working at 0 ranks until recharged in some manner. The recharge event (rest, repair, reload, spinach, etc.) is set when you build the power; but just turning the power off and on again is simply too easy to be allowed.

Your confusion may be in thinking that it's the activation itself that recharges a Fades Reaction Enhanced Trait. However, that's not the case; it's just that the recharge and trigger usually happen to be the same events. This is allowable because you can't turn such an effect off to conserve ranks (well okay, you can, but you can turn it back on at will).
Makes perfect sense. Thanks Greyman :D

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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Kariggi » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:21 am

I haven't been drawn to them, and I wan't impressed by the free profile, but from all the good talk I may grab this one since it seems to have answeres to a number of questions, but since Str array doesn't seem to be one of them I'll ask.

I found when building a "big punch" that it cost more than the STR itself did, putting the actual str into the alternate effect catergory, this led me to seperating Lifting and Damage into two seperate power effects of my STR array, but it felt a little cheesy even after I made them dynamic. Thoughts?
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Shock » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:32 am

Belial666 wrote:Umm, doesn't the third condition of an affliction remain until a save is made anyway? The 1 minute recovery just says how often the save is made, right?

If not, 3rd degree of failure is kinda useless. Just limit an affliction to 2 degrees but with extra contition for the same total cost, and put Stun+Disabled or Compel+Disabled on the 2nd degree instead. With -6 penalty to rolls (including, say, your resistance roll) and Power Attacking someone to make the save higher, you can easily make an affliction that an enemy can never resist once it has taken hold. Permanent stun (or permanent compel) is worse than death (since Ressurection or Immortality can't help you there)
That's right. You still have to make the save. Even if it wasn't, a 20 is an automatic success so there's no such thing as an Affliction that an enemy can never resist.

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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by HappyDaze » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:34 am

Kariggi wrote:I haven't been drawn to them, and I wan't impressed by the free profile, but from all the good talk I may grab this one since it seems to have answeres to a number of questions, but since Str array doesn't seem to be one of them I'll ask.

I found when building a "big punch" that it cost more than the STR itself did, putting the actual str into the alternate effect catergory, this led me to seperating Lifting and Damage into two seperate power effects of my STR array, but it felt a little cheesy even after I made them dynamic. Thoughts?
Try adding Tiring to the "big punch" effect to bring the cost down (and to rationalize why every punch isn't a "big punch") when in an array.

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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Walking Dad » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:38 pm

Shock wrote:...
That's right. You still have to make the save.
...
Can you point me at the rule or the official clarification?
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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Shock » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:32 pm

The target of an Affliction makes a resistance check at
the end of each turn to remove first and second degree
conditions. Third degree conditions require a minute of
recovery time or outside aid, such as the Treatment skill or
Healing effect (DC 10 + rank).
I read this as you get a save each round for first and second degree. The requirement to make a save for third degree is a minute of recovery time or outside aid.

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Re: Strength Power Profile is live!

Post by Walking Dad » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:55 pm

Oh, I understand. You read the second sentence as another time frame for the resistance checks and I read it as a different mechanic to recover. I have to say your interpretation makes more sense...

But Greyman seems to read it my way:
The first is to reintroduce Lasting; either as an extra or as the default mechanism. The third tier condition of Lasting Affliction would remain until a resistance check was made; allowing additional checks each time rank starting at one minute, with a cumulative -1 penalty for each check. Ref: second edition's Sustained(Lasting) duration.
and Steve Kenson agreed with his second solution, implying the problem exists.

But the second solution is also a good way to handle your interpretation of the rules, too.
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