The Atomic Think Tank

by **Murkglow** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:53 pm

Skavenger wrote:(Oh, and Batman did fight Darkseid in a Superman/Batman issue, the same storyline the animated movie with Supergirl was based on, I think. Batman put on fancy armor and judo chopped Darkseid a few times. It was awful.)

I don't remember Batman throwing a punch or anything. He put on some of the guard's armor but his whole thing was setting Darkseid's Hell Spores to destruct and bargaining Supergirl back in exchange for disarming them. He got beat down while Darkseid raged at him before finally laughing with respect for how Batman would actually follow through and agreed. Then again it has been a while since I read it so maybe he really does throw a punch...

*Edit: Ok went and looked it up. Yes he does throw two punches which Darkseid ignores before smashing Bruce into the floor and then into a wall.

by **Grayson** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:05 pm

Murkglow wrote:
Skavenger wrote:(Oh, and Batman did fight Darkseid in a Superman/Batman issue, the same storyline the animated movie with Supergirl was based on, I think. Batman put on fancy armor and judo chopped Darkseid a few times. It was awful.)

I don't remember Batman throwing a punch or anything. He put on some of the guard's armor but his whole thing was setting Darkseid's Hell Spores to destruct and bargaining Supergirl back in exchange for disarming them. He got beat down while Darkseid raged at him before finally laughing with respect for how Batman would actually follow through and agreed. Then again it has been a while since I read it so maybe he really does throw a punch...

I didn't read the comic or anything but I did watch the movie, which I heard was pretty close. But the guy who told me that is an idiot so I could be wrong. However, in the movie, Darkseid just smacked Batman around trying to beat the disarming codes out of him. It sure as hell wasn't anything remotely close to being a "fight" nor should it have been in my humble opinion.

by **Grayson** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:07 pm

Jab, any chance of getting a new Tournament of Suck or something similar down the road? I read your old one the other day. It was pretty cool!

by **Skavenger** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:49 pm

Grayson wrote:
Murkglow wrote:
Skavenger wrote:(Oh, and Batman did fight Darkseid in a Superman/Batman issue, the same storyline the animated movie with Supergirl was based on, I think. Batman put on fancy armor and judo chopped Darkseid a few times. It was awful.)

I don't remember Batman throwing a punch or anything. He put on some of the guard's armor but his whole thing was setting Darkseid's Hell Spores to destruct and bargaining Supergirl back in exchange for disarming them. He got beat down while Darkseid raged at him before finally laughing with respect for how Batman would actually follow through and agreed. Then again it has been a while since I read it so maybe he really does throw a punch...

I didn't read the comic or anything but I did watch the movie, which I heard was pretty close. But the guy who told me that is an idiot so I could be wrong. However, in the movie, Darkseid just smacked Batman around trying to beat the disarming codes out of him. It sure as hell wasn't anything remotely close to being a "fight" nor should it have been in my humble opinion.

I mostly meant the storyline was awful, not the fight. Reading back, I probably could've made that point a bit clearer.

by **Murkglow** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:51 pm

Skavenger wrote:I mostly meant the storyline was awful, not the fight.

Parts of it were pretty ok I thought. Wonder Woman + Barda vs the Furies was a pretty good fight in the movie (a nice example of fighting skills and weapon use instead of superpower punching even though both WW and Barda are super strong). Batman's ultimatum at Darkseid was an ok resolution to their trip to Apocalypse. All the stuff with Clark that didn't involve him actually using his powers was kinda ok (his feelings regarding family/kara, though the whole teen shopping and clark being the resigned/clueless man was an eyeroller).

Most of the parts I found poor were Superman Powers parts: His entire stint on Apocalypse was pretty meh in the movie (in the comic his fight vs Kara was a bit better), on the Isle of the Amazons he was again meh (just vaporize the entire enemy army in one blast, kay thx). And the ending in the comic was WTF worthy with regards to Superman vs Darkseid.

So while I agree it wasn't the best story by any means it had its good parts they just belonged to other characters and scenes that didn't deal with superman.

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:37 pm

Grayson wrote:Jab, any chance of getting a new Tournament of Suck or something similar down the road? I read your old one the other day. It was pretty cool!

It might be fun (I could do a "Best Of" Acolytes squad and just throw an Association of Jobbers as a team, or just make it eight teams), but SOOOOO much work. Plus my knowledge of the fight-rules and proper tactics is mostly-lacking to do it properly (when people asked me "why didn't they team up that much?" I was pretty much "I have no idea how that really works, I didn't want to read the whole rulebook all the way through, and most guys were too far apart anyways).

Hm, another couple of bad "Something Unique" characters:
* Metallion- a guy who was Hulk-strong, made of Adamantium, Quicksilver-fast, and had claws that cut with a super-lethal poison. Wouldn't ya know he was written by a DBZ fan (speaking of shows that got worse and less-tactics-based the more powerful the characters got...).
* De-Wass- a girl SO BELOVED BY GOD that He would kill anyone who even THOUGHT about harming her. Yes, that was her whole power. Of course she was a pacifist, but come on.
* Mega- his power was to have a million times peak human EVERYTHING. This meant he was a million times stronger, faster AND SMARTER than any person, ever.
* Plus there were a dozen Cosmic-Class guys living on Earth (many of them written by one guy), and nearly EVERYBODY had their own "Superman-Level" guy they'd created for their own universes added into one universe. It made for a REALLY ugly situation. You can see how I became biased against high Power Levels :).

On the other hand, we get stuff like Black Widow vs. Imus Champion, Spider-Man vs. Firelord, Squirrel Girl vs. ...well, anybody. IMHO, there should be standards for power levels and 'tiers' to keep track of who's in what class of power, but that doesn't mean someone from a lower tier can't shine for a moment against them. Everybody loves the underdog.

What was so bad about the Champion/Widow fight? I know he's super-strong (well, as strong as any human ever), but Widow's allegedly "Peak Human" after they retconned in some Super-Soldier Serum into her backstory (prior to the '90s, she was your standard Athletic Woman, and pretty much a PL 8 Jobber- recent years have ludicrously amped her), and it was a long, drawn-out fight that used good tactics from what I saw.

by **saint_matthew** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:42 pm

or you could do the new version of the Guardians of the Galaxy if you haven't done them already. You know, stick with the awesome cosmic level characters theme you've got going.

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:50 pm

They're on the docket already- I gotta get through the Heralds & Elders of the Universe first.

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:54 pm

"This is an atrocity, Surfer! EVEN TO SUCH AS US, THIS IS AN ATROCITY!!!"
-Air-Walker, getting the best line of "Annihilation", after The Annihilation Wave destroys the Planet of Xandar.

AIR-WALKER (Gabriel Lan)
Created By: Stan Lee & John Buscema
First Appearance: The Fantastic Four #120 (March 1972)
Role: Replacement Guy, Repeatedly-Killed Guy
Group Affiliations: The Heralds of Galactus, The Xandarian Nova Corps.
PL 13 (287)
STRENGTH 14/15 STAMINA -- AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Expertise (Xandarian Soldier) 6 (+9)
Expertise (Cosmic Lore) 4 (+7)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 4 (+7)
Technology 5 (+8)
Vehicles 6 (+8)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 8

Powers:
"Robot"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [3]

"Imbued With The Power Cosmic"
Protection 16 (Extras: Impervious 15) [31]
"Immune to the Ravages of Space" Immunity 2 (Proximity to Stars & Suns) [2]

"Cosmic Mind"
Comprehend 4 (Languages 4) [8]
"Cosmic Sight" Senses 11 (Extended Vision 8- 1 billion miles, Microvision, Analytical Vision) [11]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Space) [2]
Senses 1 (Communication Link- Heralds & Galactus) [1]

"Cosmic Awareness"
Features 1: Directed Inspiration- May ask the GM a Question With an HP [1]
Senses 1 (Cosmic Awareness- Ranged 3) [4]

"Wields Cosmic Forces"
"Tornado #1" Blast 13 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (52) -- [65]

"Master of the Air"
Flight 15 (64,000 mph) [30]
Movement 3 (Space Travel 2, Dimensional Travel) [6]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Boosted Strength +7 (+17 Damage, DC 32)
Cosmic Blast +10 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Cosmic Area Attacks +13 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +16 (+8 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will +7

Complications:
Guilt (Destroyed Countless Worlds & Civilizations)
Responsibility (Of Xandar)

Total: Abilities: 56 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 195 / Defenses: 14 (287)

-The Air-Walker is one of the worst Heralds (how sad is it that the group is now big enough to have more than ONE lame-oid?), being the second ever created. Just a standard replacement with sub-Surfer power levels, he was a threat to guys like Thor, but usually got blowed up at the end of every single appearance he ever had. I mean, Thor blew up one, the Ovoids killed the initial version (how many Heralds die to COMMON ALIEN WAR-MACHINES?), Morg killed one, and the last one died during the first Annihilation Wave at the hands of Ravenous and his Seekers. Really, quite a pathetic showing. His silly costume and un-iconic ways have basically made him a Super-Jobber.

-Gabriel's pretty easily the least powerful Herald of them all, being that he's so frequently destroyed (sure, that could just be a side effect of being the only Herald you can easily BRING BACK, but still), so he's a 'mere' PL 13 (285) Super-Blaster with a +8 Impervious save to damage. He's still monstrously expensive thanks to his android physiology (Immunity 30 and all that), and he can slug it out with the likes of Thor, the Surfer and others on an even keel for a good long while, but ultimately, his lack of Advantages and lower PL compared to the other Heralds will get the better of him, and he'll take some heavy damage.

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:58 pm

FIRELORD (Pyreus Kril)
Created By: Gerry Conway & John Buscema
First Appearance: Thor #225 (July 1974)
Role: Bad-Ass Space Guy, Hot-Blooded Fire Guy
Group Affiliations: The Heralds of Galactus, The Xandarian Nova Corps.
PL 15 (320)
STRENGTH 14/17 STAMINA 15 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (Space Traveller) 8 (+12)
Expertise (Cosmic Lore) 5 (+9)
Expertise (History) 4 (+6)
Intimidation 16 (+16)
Perception 6 (+6)
Technology 4 (+6)
Vehicles 3 (+5)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Diehard, Great Endurance, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 8, Startle

Powers:
"Imbued With The Power Cosmic"
Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 17) [20]
Immunity 12 (Aging, Sleep, Life Support) [12]
"Immune to the Ravages of Space" Immunity 2 (Proximity to Stars & Suns) [2]

"Cosmic Mind"
Comprehend 4 (Languages 4) [8]
"Cosmic Sight" Senses 11 (Extended Vision 8- 1 billion miles, Microvision, Analytical Vision) [11]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Space) [2]
Senses 1 (Communication Link- Heralds & Galactus) [1]

"Cosmic Awareness"
Features 1: Directed Inspiration- May ask the GM a Question With an HP [1]
Senses 1 (Cosmic Awareness- Ranged 3) [4]

"Being of Fire" Immunity 10 (Fire Effects) [10]
Features 1: May Spend 2 Hero Points and get to Double Area Effects (ie. 250ft. Bursts) [1]

"Wields Cosmic Forces"
Cosmic Blast 19 (Feats: Penetrating 14, Split, Extended Range 5- x3,200 ft., Variable 2) (60) -- [68]

Flight 15 (64,000 mph) [30]
Movement 3 (Space Travel 2, Dimensional Travel) [6]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Boosted Strength +8 (+17 Damage, DC 32)
Flame Aura +8 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Cosmic Blast +11 (+19 Ranged Damage, DC 34)
Cosmic Area Attacks +15 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +18 (+9 Impervious), Fortitude +15, Will +8

Complications:
Guilt (Destroyed Countless Worlds & Civilizations)
Relationship (Gabriel Lan)- Air-Walker was Pyreus Kril's friend- their bond caused him to search the universe for Galactus, and he was willing to become a herald just to discover Lan's fate.
Responsibility (Hot-Blooded)- Firelord is VERY quick to anger, and he's been known to fly out with Cosmic Fury if he even THINKS someone is being bad.
Responsibility (Of Xandar)

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 176 / Defenses: 15 (320)

-Firelord is probably the coolest and best-known non-Surfer Herald of Galactus. A replacement for Gabriel Lan, his Xandarian friend Pyreus Kril hunted down Galactus, demanding an explanation for his pal's disappearance. He got one, plus a new job. His unique, cool appearance and freakish level of power mixed with a volatile, lordly personality, and he's a very memorable character. He's shown up a bunch of times when "Cosmic" stuff is involved, such as the fight against Morg the Evil Herald, and during Annihilation, he personally blew the living crap out of one of Annihilus' Queens and her entire Starship. She threatened to kill him, and he just said "Ladies First" and went Nova, Johnny Storm-style, except this time he demolished miles' worth of stuff.

-Firelord's a Herald easily as powerful as the Surfer, packing very similar powers (only his resemble fire more than cosmic energy- the "Fire" is really just a funky name for his stuff- though he's Heat-based enough to earn a full immunity to any Heat/Flame Effects), using bursts of raw power, and having fewer tricks to his Cosmic Power. He adds a Flame Aura to his powers also, but is a tad less durable (he takes more beatings from regular folk than does Surfer). His "Staff" isn't really a weapon per-se, he can blast out his powers without it, and he can just summon the damn thing anyways (Spider-Man once cheesed him off by just TAKING it, though it was more of a pride thing), so it's just folded into his powers rather than working as a Device. All in all, he's freakishly powerful, and even more expensive than the Surfer himself, by virtue of having no Platform on his Flight.

by **Kreuzritter** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:14 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Grayson wrote:Jab, any chance of getting a new Tournament of Suck or something similar down the road? I read your old one the other day. It was pretty cool!

It might be fun (I could do a "Best Of" Acolytes squad and just throw an Association of Jobbers as a team, or just make it eight teams), but SOOOOO much work. Plus my knowledge of the fight-rules and proper tactics is mostly-lacking to do it properly (when people asked me "why didn't they team up that much?" I was pretty much "I have no idea how that really works, I didn't want to read the whole rulebook all the way through, and most guys were too far apart anyways).

Hm, another couple of bad "Something Unique" characters:
* Metallion- a guy who was Hulk-strong, made of Adamantium, Quicksilver-fast, and had claws that cut with a super-lethal poison. Wouldn't ya know he was written by a DBZ fan (speaking of shows that got worse and less-tactics-based the more powerful the characters got...).
* De-Wass- a girl SO BELOVED BY GOD that He would kill anyone who even THOUGHT about harming her. Yes, that was her whole power. Of course she was a pacifist, but come on.
* Mega- his power was to have a million times peak human EVERYTHING. This meant he was a million times stronger, faster AND SMARTER than any person, ever.
* Plus there were a dozen Cosmic-Class guys living on Earth (many of them written by one guy), and nearly EVERYBODY had their own "Superman-Level" guy they'd created for their own universes added into one universe. It made for a REALLY ugly situation. You can see how I became biased against high Power Levels .

Case in point, I started to get involved after a major 'crossover' story where New York was literally reduced to a bombed out crater, and one of the regular heroes just WISHED it back into being

i asked "Okay, so what's to stop him from just taking over the world." the response "he's a good kid."

of course, a few years later after SU was rebooted, some villaind made by me proceeded to run roughshod over his characters by fighting smart and dirty, while another I was setting up was basicly Dr. Destroyer from champions

by **saint_matthew** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:50 am

Kreuzritter wrote:Case in point, I started to get involved after a major 'crossover' story where New York was literally reduced to a bombed out crater, and one of the regular heroes just WISHED it back into being

i asked "Okay, so what's to stop him from just taking over the world." the response "he's a good kid."

of course, a few years later after SU was rebooted, some villaind made by me proceeded to run roughshod over his characters by fighting smart and dirty, while another I was setting up was basicly Dr. Destroyer from champions

Dude? What the heck are you talking about?

Because it sounds awesome, but i'm not sure how it portains to whats going on in this thread & i'd hate to miss out on what sounds like a fascinating story.

by **Kreuzritter** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:40 am

the first part was an illustration as to how ridiculously powerful the characters were for SU, considering said wishing back of new york was a relatively casual feat from one of the Heroes

by **ladydragonfly** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:17 am

"Immune to the Ravages of Space" Immunity 2 (Proximity to Stars & Suns) [2]

Not to feel stupid, can you tell me what this does? Just curious.

by **prodigyduck** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:25 am

ladydragonfly wrote:
"Immune to the Ravages of Space" Immunity 2 (Proximity to Stars & Suns) [2]

Not to feel stupid, can you tell me what this does? Just curious.

I would imagine that would make the character immune to the heat and radiation effects of being close to a star. Plus the ridiculous gravity pull.

I get burnt just stepping outdoors, and we are 93 million miles aways from the sun. I can't imagine what I would be like to be close to one of those things.

The Atomic Think Tank

Jab's Builds: He-Man, Mekaneck, Buzz-Off, Ram Man, Teela

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan the Accuser, Supreme Intelligence, Lyja

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan the Accuser, Supreme Intelligence, Lyja

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan the Accuser, Supreme Intelligence, Lyja

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan the Accuser, Supreme Intelligence, Lyja

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Ronan, Supremor, Lyja, The Silver Surfer

Re: Jab's Builds: Lyja, The Silver Surfer, Air-Walker, Firelord

Re: Jab's Builds: Lyja, The Silver Surfer, Air-Walker, Firelord

Re: Jab's Builds: Lyja, The Silver Surfer, Air-Walker, Firelord

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