JD's 2E Archives

[JoshuaDunlow]

So essentially you made Athletics the Strength version of Acrobatics? Does the same thing? Adds to Jumps etc.

Yes technically, where Acrobatics requires nimbleness and reflexes. Athletics relies on speed and power. The Athletic's skill can be found here, or on my Index and what it can do. Also as an option you can have athletics take the place of Climb and Swim if you like.

[JoshuaDunlow]

And last but not least, the Paladin rounds up the Diablo builds. Which is also a costly character, but still well under the maximum pp for his power level.

Diablo: Paladin [PL 6/80pp]

Great, but there's one small missing aspect of Holy Bolt: it can heal others.

Can it? Alright , i'll see if i can tweak that around. In any case though, you can play it off as an Alternate Power. And everything else is being based off of that. Soo, technically it works just fine as is.

[JoshuaDunlow]

Flash (PL 6/81pp)
Real Name: Bart Allen, Trade Off: -3 Toughness, +3 Defense

Abilities [12pp]: Strength 10 (+0), Dexterity 16 (+3), Constitution 16 (+3), Intelligence 10 (+0), Wisdom 10 (+0), Charisma 10 (+0)
Saves [3pp]: Toughness +3, Fortitude 0 (+3), Reflexes 2 (+5/+11), Willpower 1 (+1)
Combat [4pp]: Base Attack 0 (+0), Base Defense +9 (+1 flat), Initiative +4/+38, Grapple +0, Knock Back -2, Hero Points 1
Attack (dc): Unarmed +0
Skills [4pp]: Athletics 2 (+2), Bluff 3 (+4), Knowledge: Streetwise 2 (+2), Sleight of Hand 7 (+13), Notice 2 (+2)
Feats [3pp]: Endurance 1, Move by Action, Skill Focus (Sleight of Hand)
Powers [55pp]:
Super Speed 7 [PF: Seize Initiative, 1 Alternate Power] (37pp)
- Base Array Power: Speed 14
- AP: Takeaway
Super Speed Effects (18pp)
- Enhanced Reflexes +6
- Enhanced Feats: Dodge Focus 7, Evasion 1
- Super Movement 1 [Water Walking; Flaws: Limited (only while running)]
- Concealment 3 [Normal Sight, Normal Hearing; Flaws: Limited (Only while running)]
Builders Notes:
This is the Flash from the season 4 of smallville.

[Mark Reuter]

Joshua, I like the Clark build now very much. I was glad I could help in some small way to shape it. Clark now has a very respectable Speed 15, but still leaves much room under the cap for The Flash to be that much faster. Excellent work and I look forward to your Flash build!

How are you coming up with the Speed 15?

OK Joshua you are confusing me. Your current build of Clark on page 182 of your Forums has him built with Super-Speed 5 with the base array power being Speed. Since Super-Speed 5 gives you a base Speed 5 and the array is 10 points and you can buy 10 points of Speed with that, this gives you 15 total points of speed.

Having said that, I must comment on your Flash build because you did the same thing with his Super-Speed power. Instead of making Speed an alternate power of his Super-Speed array (at a cost of 1 point, since you already have Take-Away as his base power), you bought a linked Speed 5 to the Super-Speed power. So now your Flash only has Speed 12, whereas he could go as high as Speed 21 if you gave him Speed 14 as an alternate power in the array. You could still save 2 points off the build if you got rid of the linked Speed and made both slots in the array Dynamic, which would cost you three points instead of five and your Flash would be so much faster. And, for the same cost, you could add one more dynamic power to his array or two more regular alternate powers to his array.

Or you could give him the Concealment power to normal sight, with the flaw (only while moving) for 2 points, which has been demonstrated in the show. I believe when Clark states that he saw him save his father, he responds, "No one sees me do when I do my thing" (or something to that effect).

I personally would make speed just a regular alternate power and the takeaway just a regular alternate power. He can't use both at the same time but he can still move at Speed 7 and use his takeaway power, and speed 7 is a respectable 1000 mph. You might even want to add Quickness as an alternate power as well, if you wanted to make him extra quick. But I would definitely incorporate the Concealment power. So here is what I think your powers build should look like:

Super-Speed 7 (Speed 7, Quickness 7, Improved Initiative 7, Array 7, PF: Seize Initiative, Water-Running) 37 pp
Default: Takeaway 4 (targeted burst area selective [+2] Damage, [+0, disarms, rather than damages]) 0 pp
AP: Speed 14 (total Speed 21) 1 pp
AP: Quickness 14 (total Quickness 21) 1 pp

Super-Speed Powers

Concealment 2 (normal sight, [-1, only while moving]) 2 pp
Enhanced Reflexes +6 6 pp
Dodge Focus 7 7 pp
Evasion 2 2 pp

OK, I have upgraded your Evasion to Evasion 2, given you the ability to reach speed or quickness 21, and concealment from normal sight while moving.....and I saved you a point in doing so. Your power suite comes in at 56 pp, rather than 57 pp.

(*stands back and waits for thunderous applause from the masses*)

[JoshuaDunlow]

Okay i see what you are trying to say. However i do not want Flash or Clark to be THAT fast by putting speed as a base power in their super speed array. Which is why i am using a linked power outside of it, to get the speed ranks i do want. This is my reasonings behind using speed this way. Because if i used Clark the way you suggest he would have a Speed of 30.. And im sorry, i don't agree with that. He's fast but he's not that fast. I agree clark might go as fast as Rank 11 speed.

Granted i could use a speed power AP, at a lower Rank than necessary. But that wastes the points i could use for the AP, because my point of view of clark and Flash i just wouldn't put that high in speeds. And your right Flash might have some concealment power while running. Im just not considering that in the build just yet.

But i disagree with giving Flash 2 ranks of evasion, but this is just the way i see these characters.

Here's clark Season 3. http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopi ... 775#521775

[Mark Reuter]

Okay i see what you are trying to say. However i do not want Flash or Clark to be THAT fast by putting speed as a base power in their super speed array. Which is why i am using a linked power outside of it, to get the speed ranks i do want. This is my reasonings behind using speed this way. Because if i used Clark the way you suggest he would have a Speed of 30.. And im sorry, i don't agree with that. He's fast but he's not that fast. I agree clark might go as fast as Rank 11 speed.

Granted i could use a speed power AP, at a lower Rank than necessary. But that wastes the points i could use for the AP, because my point of view of clark and Flash i just wouldn't put that high in speeds. And your right Flash might have some concealment power while running. Im just not considering that in the build just yet.

But i disagree with giving Flash 2 ranks of evasion, but this is just the way i see these characters.

No Joshua, the way you have Clark built right now after our earlier discussion, he has Super-Speed 5 with Speed as the base power in his array. This looks like this:

Super-Speed 5 (Speed 5, Quickness 5, Improved Initiative 5, Array 5)
Default: Speed 10

This gives Clark a total of Speed 15. If you don't want to have Clark be that fast, then do this:

Default: Speed 5 and Quickness 5

This gives Clark a Speed of 10 and a Quickness of 10 at all times because it is the only power currently in his array. He can power stunt other powers off that array if he desires and still maintain a Speed 5 and Quickness 5.

You can do the same thing for the Flash. If Speed 21 is too much for you then do this:

AP: Speed 7 and Quickness 7

You save yourself a point there because you don't have to have a separate AP for Quickness. And now, the Flash's speed is 14 which is 250,000 MPH. You save another point by reducing Evasion by one, and another 2 points by getting rid of the concealment (though I feel it should be there since it is a demonstrated power from the outset, but I will concede the point since it is your build).

So now your powers suite comes in at 52 points, leaving you an extra 5 points to spend elsewhere.

[JoshuaDunlow]

No.. 5 Ranks of Super Speed, means that each AP is worth 25 pp's. That's why. I am not sure where you are getting 10 ranks of speed as the Base Array Power. And i have recently added a flaw to Clarks power, so that no array is possible.

[archangel2124]

Each power would only be 10 points. In the Array because the Array is Rank x2 pp. Meaning that Super-Speed Rank 5 = a 10pp Array plus all the other stuff. Like Speed at Rank 5, Quickness Rank 5, and Improved Init Rank 5.

[Mark Reuter]

Joshua,

How much clearer do I have to make this? Let me break it down for you.

Super-Speed 5 breaks down like this:

Speed 5 (5 pp)
Quickness 5 (5 pp)
Improved Initiative 5 (5 pp)
Array 5 (10 pp)
Default Power (worth 10 pp) 0 pp

It costs you 25 pp for the entire thing and the Speed, Quickness, and Improved Initiative can be used WITH the array. So, in the above, if you took as your default power Speed 5 and Quickness 5, which you can do as long as the total cost of the powers does not exceed 10 points, then, if that is your only power in the array, you have a constant Speed 10 and Quickness 10. If you put it all into Speed or Quickness, you would have either Speed 15 or Quickness 15.

Super-Speed 7 breaks down like this:

Speed 7 (7 pp)
Quickness 7 (7 pp)
Improved Initiative 7 (7 pp)
Array 7 (14 pp)
Default Power (worth 14 pp) 0 pp

In this case you can put Speed 7 and Quickness 7 into your default power and come up with Speed 14 and Quickness 14 at all times, if it is your only power in the array. You also want the take-away power so that would cost you 1 point and give you this:

AP: Takeaway 4 (Strike 4, [+1, targeted burst area], [+1, selective target], [+0, disarms rather than dealing damage], PF: accurate 2 [+4 to hit], 14 pp) 1 pp.

If you are buying Super-Speed and not using the array, then don't buy Super-Speed; just buy the powers individually. For Clark the build would be as follows:

Speed 10 (10 pp)
Quickness 4 (4 pp)
Improved Initiative 4 (4 pp)

It costs you 18 pp, instead of the 26 pp you were using before. And you can still power stunt powers off the speed, if you so desire. To tell you the truth this is what I do with my speedster builds. 4 or 5 ranks of Improved Initiative is about all you are ever going to need so buying super-speed beyond 5 ranks is overkill in my opinion. I usually just end up breaking it down into its component parts and then buying a Super-Speed Array with Dynamic Alternate Powers so that I can use my Speed and Quickness with other slots in my array. It gives you a whole lot more flexibility.

[Mark Reuter]

Flash (PL 6/85pp)
Real Name: Bart Allen, Trade Off: -3 Toughness, +3 Defense

Abilities [12pp]: Strength 10 (+0), Dexterity 16 (+3), Constitution 16 (+3), Intelligence 10 (+0), Wisdom 10 (+0), Charisma 10 (+0)
Saves [3pp]: Toughness +3, Fortitude 0 (+3), Reflexes 2 (+4/+11), Willpower 1 (+1)
Combat [4pp]: Base Attack 0 (+0), Base Defense +9 (+1 flat), Initiative +4/+38, Grapple +0, Knock Back -2, Hero Points 1
Attack (dc): Unarmed +0
Skills [4pp]: Athletics 2 (+2), Bluff 3 (+4), Knowledge: Streetwise 2 (+2), Sleight of Hand 7 (+13), Notice 2 (+2)
Feats [2pp]: Endurance 1, Skill Focus (Sleight of Hand)
Powers [59pp]:
Super Speed 7 [PF: Seize Initiative ; Extras: Linked (speed 5)]
- Base Array Power: Takeaway
Super Speed Effects (19pp)
- Enhanced Reflexes +6
- Enhanced Feats: Dodge Focus 7, Evasion 1
- Super Movement 1 [Water Walking; Flaws: Limited (only while running)]
- Concealment 3 [Visual Senses, Hearing; Flaws: Limited (Only while running)]
Builders Notes:
This is the Flash from the season 4 of smallville.

First of all, your powers cost is wrong again, according to my math. Concealment to all visual senses is Concealment 4 (it costs double to be concealed from sight), then you have to add another rank to be concealed from normal hearing. That's Concealment 5 which would cost you 5 points with the "only while moving" flaw. That brings your Super-Speed effects cost to 20 pp, which added to the 41 pp you have for your Super-Speed 7 with linked Speed 5 and the Seize Initiative power feat, comes to 61 pp, not 59 pp.

Secondly, your base reflex save should be +5, not +4.

Thirdly, I am not familiar with the Skill focus feat in M&M. Exactly what does it do? Is it from Mastermind's Manual?

Fourthly, I do believe that Move-by Action should be part of this character as well, because he has shown the ability to move, perform a standard action (like pick a pocket), and move again.

Lastly, I think you are unnecessarily cutting your own throat by not making Speed an alternate power of your array and saving yourself 4 points in cost, or using those 4 points elsewhere, perhaps for more alternate powers or maybe Move-by Action, and some more points in the combat skills area (he currently has no attack bonus). Not to mention, that, at PL 6, he can conventionally be built with 90 pp and you have him under at 83 pp. I assume that there is a reason for that.

[Libra]

Keep up the good work Joshua.

[JoshuaDunlow]

Each power would only be 10 points. In the Array because the Array is Rank x2 pp. Meaning that Super-Speed Rank 5 = a 10pp Array plus all the other stuff. Like Speed at Rank 5, Quickness Rank 5, and Improved Init Rank 5.

Correct if the main power cost only 2pp/rank, After what Mark showed me there. Now i realize the array which super speed is based on, is seperate from the other costs. An array yes normally grants 2 pp/rank, but it can grant much more if Extras and Flaws are applied to it. That is why i was having the problem understanding it. I treated all the other affects of the super speed as if they were linked extras to the Array.

[JoshuaDunlow]

Thanks for the break up of the cost of the super speed power that does put it into perspective for me. So i will conceed that point.

First of all, your powers cost is wrong again, according to my math. Concealment to all visual senses is Concealment 4 (it costs double to be concealed from sight), then you have to add another rank to be concealed from normal hearing. That's Concealment 5 which would cost you 5 points with the "only while moving" flaw. That brings your Super-Speed effects cost to 20 pp, which added to the 41 pp you have for your Super-Speed 7 with linked Speed 5 and the Seize Initiative power feat, comes to 61 pp, not 59 pp.

Despite my errors that might be in my own math... the Concealment is not against all Visual senses, its only against Normal Sight. And that my friend is 2pp/ranks.

Thirdly, I am not familiar with the Skill focus feat in M&M. Exactly what does it do? Is it from Mastermind's Manual?

Its a Feat of my own design, which can be found in my Index.

Fourthly, I do believe that Move-by Action should be part of this character as well, because he has shown the ability to move, perform a standard action (like pick a pocket), and move again.

I'll agree with that, i didn't think about that. So i got alot of work ahead of me, i need to update every clark build and my flash build.

[Mark Reuter]

I apologize Joshua. In your Flash Build, it said Concealment to Visual Senses. I took that mean all sight based perception, not just normal sight. My error.

Don't get me wrong, I like your builds. You are doing a great job. As speedsters are my speciality, I like to point out some "tricks of the trade" that I have learned because Super-Speed confused the heck out of me for quite some time as well.

[JoshuaDunlow]

I apologize Joshua. In your Flash Build, it said Concealment to Visual Senses. I took that mean all sight based perception, not just normal sight. My error.

Don't get me wrong, I like your builds. You are doing a great job. As speedsters are my speciality, I like to point out some "tricks of the trade" that I have learned because Super-Speed confused the heck out of me for quite some time as well.

No problem, the whole thing about the Array was the only thing that was confusing me.