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The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech

Postby American_Patriot » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:46 pm

HustlerOne wrote:Nice to see some fellow battletech fans out there. 8)

You know I actually tried converting battletech for Mutants and Masterminds. It didn't work out so well. The Mad Cat OmniMech was a nightmare to convert simply because it had so many weapons. Battletech had a habit of arming mechs with a dozen different weapons or more. I had more luck with the Thor/Summoner OmniMech and the Elemental Battle Armor (aka powerarmor) for Third Edition. Not sure I will post them though.

Even for the Destroids I had to use alternate effects or combining multiple weapons of the same kind into one weapon. Already the SDF-1 Macross I'm working on is turning into a ridiculously expensive monster worth around 500 points!

The Tomahawk will be next followed by the Monster Destroid. Strangely enough the Monster is turning out cheaper than the Tomahawk.


Each weaponsystem could be written up as a device or an active container with things being alt powers to show that you have to toggle between each different weapon that you're using. Or am I not understanding the rules?
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Spartan All Purpose Destroid Mecha

Postby Aerlwyn » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:48 pm

Should be able to make it work, just have to sort the idea of it an array for each configration and limited it to that at the time. Something like figure out the weapons and cost of each, but as im new to the game and you seem to understand it better will take your word for it.


Always one of the favorites the Warhammer/Tomahawk looking forward to seeing it.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech

Postby HustlerOne » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:11 pm

American_Patriot wrote:Each weaponsystem could be written up as a device or an active container with things being alt powers to show that you have to toggle between each different weapon that you're using. Or am I not understanding the rules?


Yeah I did that for the GunClusters for the Spartan and Tomahawk Destroids. I think my biggest problem when converting Battletech are the high number of weapons on some mechs. Even using alternate effects doesn't seem to help. My best bet seems to be converting mechs with the fewest weapons like the Archer with only two weapons. Rather than the monstrous Atlas with its assortment of missiles, lasers, and autocannons.

Some scout mechs ended up being more expensive than even a assault mech. For example a scout mech with six smaller different laser weapons ended up being really expensive. Compared to a somehow cheaper Assault Mech with one giant Gauss Rifle. I think you'll see what I mean when I post the Monster Destroid later this week.

I was gonna post the Tomahawk tomorrow but Aerlwyn seems really looking forward to the Tomahawk. So I'll post it today.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Destroid series Mecha

Postby HustlerOne » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:15 pm

Image


Tomahawk Heavy Destroid


Size Gargantuan, STR 55(+22), DEX 9(-1), Toughness +13 (7 Impervious)


Base Systems: Advanced Onboard Computer System, Armor 7 (7 Impervious), Environmental Seal 1,

Ground Speed 3,


Complementary Systems: Base Comms 8 (Radio, Area, Selective, Subtle), Base Sensors 4 (Extended

radar 1, radius [radar], Infravision, lowlightVision), Ejector Seat, Electromagnetic Seal, Free-Bearing Hip

Joint 1, IFF Transponder, Profile Database


Weapons: 12.7mm Machinegun: Blast 4 (Mounted, Ballistic, Ex: Autofire) 12pp


GunClusters: 32mm AutoCannons: Blast 6 (Mounted, Ballistic, PF: Accurate) 18pp

Alternate Effects: Flamethrower: Blast 6 (Mounted, Fire, Line) 1pp,

180mm Grenade Launcher: Blast 5 (Mounted, Explosive) 1pp,

Laser: Blast 5 (Mounted, Laser, PF: Accurate) 1pp


Missile Launcher Pods: Blast 9 (Mounted, Explosive) 27pp

Heavy Missile Pods: Blast 10 (Mounted, Explosive) 30pp

Particle Beam Cannons: Blast 12 (Mounted, Energy) 24pp


Drawbacks: Activation(5 minutes to initialize systems) -2pp

Control Requirements (Pilot requires Mecha Pilot Proficiency feat or suffer a -4 penalty to all rolls) -1pp

Disability (No Hands) -4pp


Size 37, Abilities 20, Base Features 19, Complementary Features 6, Weapons 114, Drawbacks -7, = 189 Total


Notes: The Tomahawk is virtually a walking Dreadnought. It is the second most heavily armed destroid
in the series. It is armed with heavy particle cannons carried by the Zentraedi Glaug Command Battlepod.
This is no coincidence since human mecha were reversed engineered from Zentraedi mecha found in the crashed SDF-1 Macross derelict. The Tomahawk also shares the same legs as that of the Defender destroid.

The Tomahawk was mostly used in assault and defense situations. It's heavy firepower and armor allowed it to survive a lot of enemy fire. Like most Destroids it is ill suited in close combat. Its speed was it's biggest weakness and a lot of Zentraedi mecha simply outran it.

The Tomahawk was also used in Battletech. Their it is called the Warhammer. It uses virtually the same
stats. The infamous Black Widow (aka Natasha Kerensky) of the Wolf Dragoons herself piloted one. She is one of the best mechwarriors in the battletech universe.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Tomahawk Heavy Destroid Mecha

Postby Aerlwyn » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:37 pm

Question about a weapon type - how would you sort a pulse laser?
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech

Postby HustlerOne » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:55 am

Aerlwyn wrote:Question about a weapon type - how would you sort a pulse laser?



The Queudlum-Rau Power Armor used by the Elite Zentraedi Female Officers has pulse lasers. Just a quick reminder to everyone else. I already made stats for the Zentraedi Battlepods and powered armor. The links to their entries are at the first page index.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Destroid series Mecha

Postby HustlerOne » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:02 am

Image


Monster - Artillery Destroid


Size Colossal, STR 70(+30), DEX 7(-2), Toughness +15 (7 Impervious)


Base Systems: Advanced Onboard Computer System, Armor 7 (7 Impervious), Environmental Seal 1,

Ground Speed 2


Complementary Systems: Base Comms 8 (Radio, Area, Selective, Subtle), Base Sensors 4 (Extended

radar 1, radius [radar], Infravision, lowlightVision), Ejector Seat, Electromagnetic Seal, IFF Transponder,

Profile Database


Weapons: 40cm Automatic Cannons: Blast 13 (Mounted, Ballistic, Ex: Cluster, PF: Improved Range 4) 56pp

TriLaser Cannons: Blast 10 (Mounted, Laser, PF: Accurate, Improved Range 3) 24pp


or Optional: Triple Barrel AntiGround Missile Launchers: Blast 10 (Mounted, Explosive, PF: Improved

Range 3) 33


Drawbacks: Activation(5 minutes to initialize systems) -2pp

Control Requirements (Pilot requires Mecha Pilot Proficiency feat or suffer a -4 penalty to all rolls) -1pp

Disability (No Hands) -4pp

High Ground Pressure -3pp


Size 49, Abilities 25, Base Features 18, Complementary Features 6, Weapons 80, Drawbacks -10, = 168 Total


Notes: The Monster is aptly named. This behemoth of a mecha was one of the largest and most heavily
armed of all mecha. It is also one of the heaviest and slowest as well. The monster was used as long range
artillery and little else. Sometimes it might have been used in static positions to defend a strategic area.

The Monster had the same firepower as that of a battleship! It's main cannons were actually copied
from some of the smaller cannons found on the SDF-1 Macross. It's armor was also similar to that of a naval warship as well. One notable weakness was it's own weight. It's own heavy weight would make it sink in soft ground such as mud and sand.

Another weakness was that it could not swivel its chest 360 degrees like other Destroids. This limited
it's arc of fire to the forward position. Zentraedi Mecha had a easy time flanking these nearly immobile sitting ducks. Earlier models had arm mounted missile launchers instead of the laser cannons. The U.N was not yet familiar with energy weapons at the time.

Their is no direct battletech equivalent. The closest are superheavy mechs that weigh over 100 tons.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

Postby Woodclaw » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:28 am

4 barrels of pure destructions. I love hte result even if I'm not sure about cluster area on the main guns.

A little nitpick, I noticed that you use a lot of Improved range on your mecha builds, but no Progression Range. R.A.W. this means that all these weapons have their normal range, but massive range increments. I sthis intentional?
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

Postby HustlerOne » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:56 am

Woodclaw wrote:4 barrels of pure destructions. I love hte result even if I'm not sure about cluster area on the main guns.

A little nitpick, I noticed that you use a lot of Improved range on your mecha builds, but no Progression Range. R.A.W. this means that all these weapons have their normal range, but massive range increments. I sthis intentional?


Well I figured that the four barrels of pure destruction was loaded with cluster shells. I figure most artillery shells fire a lot of shrapnel in a wide area. Either way I wanted to make sure no one wanted to be at the end of those barrels. Granted I'm not much of an expert on artillery.

The range increments are intentional. If you feel different then just replace them with the progression feat.
I figured that the defender and monster destroids needed forward observers. It doesn't really matter except that all you need to know is that they can fire their weapons from really far away.

I wanted to make the monster the most expensive destroid. I suggest making one or more of the Tomahawks weapons into alternate weapons to make that destroid cheaper than the monster.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech

Postby HustlerOne » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Well all the Robotech mecha are now done. I'm building the Human and Zentraedi warships next. I can't build all of the miles long zentraedi ship. I'm only building the smaller and more manageable ones. At the end I'll post the SDF-1 Macross herself.

The SDF-1 Macross has got to be the most daunting and complex mecha I have built so far. Probably the most expensive as well. It's a transforming battleship mecha around a mile long!

I'll also update the index soon to show which ships I plan to do.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

Postby Kreuzritter » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:21 pm

ah the monster. its return to the screen in Macross Fronteir was a sight to behold
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

Postby Woodclaw » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:04 pm

HustlerOne wrote:
Woodclaw wrote:4 barrels of pure destructions. I love hte result even if I'm not sure about cluster area on the main guns.

A little nitpick, I noticed that you use a lot of Improved range on your mecha builds, but no Progression Range. R.A.W. this means that all these weapons have their normal range, but massive range increments. I sthis intentional?


Well I figured that the four barrels of pure destruction was loaded with cluster shells. I figure most artillery shells fire a lot of shrapnel in a wide area. Either way I wanted to make sure no one wanted to be at the end of those barrels. Granted I'm not much of an expert on artillery.


Fair enough

The range increments are intentional. If you feel different then just replace them with the progression feat.
I figured that the defender and monster destroids needed forward observers. It doesn't really matter except that all you need to know is that they can fire their weapons from really far away.


Well my point is that a Blast 13 effect has a maximum range of 1300 feet - which is hardly artillery worth - and 4 ranks of Improved Range makes the single range increment 3250 feet long - again not artillery range.
In game terms this means that a Monster have zero penalities to hit targets at maximum range, but can't use his full range increment even with forward observers.
Keep in mind that modern day field artillery have a range from 16000 feet upwards and naval artillery can go even further.
The Monster's guns are based on space-combat weapons. In space 16000 feets are pretty much knife-fighting range.
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

Postby Kreuzritter » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:19 pm

to demonstrate the above build, i present the VB-6 Koenig Monster in its natural habitat
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

Postby HustlerOne » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:36 pm

Woodclaw wrote:Well my point is that a Blast 13 effect has a maximum range of 1300 feet - which is hardly artillery worth - and 4 ranks of Improved Range makes the single range increment 3250 feet long - again not artillery range.
In game terms this means that a Monster have zero penalities to hit targets at maximum range, but can't use his full range increment even with forward observers.
Keep in mind that modern day field artillery have a range from 16000 feet upwards and naval artillery can go even further.
The Monster's guns are based on space-combat weapons. In space 16000 feets are pretty much knife-fighting range.


I actually used the golden age sourcebook's stats for artillery as a guideline. So my artillery is more comparable to the ones shown in that sourcebook. Again I don't know anything about real artillery. The Progression powerfeat probably should be used instead then...

I'll check it over but I really don't feel like adding the progression feat for every spaceship or long range weapon. Just presume they fight at close range in space I guess. My Plasma bug build from starship troopers are also artillery. Now I have to wonder how much progression I should give them.

I'm not exactly creating realistic gritty hard scifi here. Mutants and masterminds really can't handle that. I mean the battlepods should be using g forces for space movement instead of flight for example.

Still does it really matter? Robotech is a cinematic anime. We don't have to worry about how much ammo, fuel, or oxygen is left in the tank.

By the way any advice on how much progression I should give long range artillery/space weapons?
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Re: The Forge [2E]: Robotech: Monster - Artillery Destroid Mecha

Postby Woodclaw » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:34 am

HustlerOne wrote:I actually used the golden age sourcebook's stats for artillery as a guideline. So my artillery is more comparable to the ones shown in that sourcebook. Again I don't know anything about real artillery. The Progression powerfeat probably should be used instead then...

I'll check it over but I really don't feel like adding the progression feat for every spaceship or long range weapon. Just presume they fight at close range in space I guess. My Plasma bug build from starship troopers are also artillery. Now I have to wonder how much progression I should give them.

I'm not exactly creating realistic gritty hard scifi here. Mutants and masterminds really can't handle that. I mean the battlepods should be using g forces for space movement instead of flight for example.

Still does it really matter? Robotech is a cinematic anime. We don't have to worry about how much ammo, fuel, or oxygen is left in the tank.

By the way any advice on how much progression I should give long range artillery/space weapons?


Well this is a tough one. In space combat there are some considerations that one have to keep in mind. First and foremost, the kind of weapons involved. Unless the weapons involved can fire at a speed very close to lightspeed the combat range will be drasticly reduced, since the bullets will be in flight for too long to have a chance to actually hit anything but a static target. Second, in space combat the biggest problem is having a decent firing solution, otherwise the shots will simply keep going until it hit something.

Now modern day artillery have a maximum range between 15 and 36 Km (9.4 to 22.3 miles) depending on the caliber and length of the barrel, this can be extended by a factor of 20-30% further using extended range ammo. This ranges presume that the weapon is firing with maximum elevation.

For the monster, I think that this construction should work for ground based combat:

Blast 13 (PF: Indirect 1, Improved Range 4, Progression 4 [Range])

Plus give the unit the Sniper feat from Warrior & Warlocks (which allows to apply one extra rank of Progression and Improved Range but lose the Dodge bonus) to simulate a shot from maximum elevation with the help of a forward obeserver.
As a result the Monster will have a maximum range of 32,500 feet (about 10 Km) and a range increment of 3,250 feet, this values double using the Sniper feat.
Indirect is meant to simulate the fact that Artillery fires in a high arc allowing to go over some obstacles.

When space combat is involved I think that all the weapons range should be multiplied by a fixed factor at the GM discretion, since this is equivalent for all space worthy weapons the cost can be waved to a neat 0pp. If different weapons have different space combat range, then the difference should be payed somehow.

About how long this range is, keep in mind that to hit a target in geosynchronous orbit over Earth requires a weapon with a 42,164 Km (26,199 miles) range, which is roughly 13/14 ranks of Progression and Improved Range applied to the Monster's main guns.
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