Taliesin's 3E Builds: Moonstone, Binary, Rulk, Wasp, Shang

[Cobalt]

Ice Beam +7, Ranged, Damage 13, Resisted by Fortitude (DC 28)

I may be confused, but wouldn't the DC be 23, because of the alternate save, or does it stay the same, regardless? I don't have the book in hand at the moment to look it check it.

edit: My mistake. I just looked it up. Guess DC does stay the same

[Arthur Eld]

According to the description for Alternate Effect, the Difficulty Class remains the same, only the Resistance changes. Which is probably why its a +1 Extra most of the time.

[Tyrant Lizard King]

If I might make a request for whenever you might have the chance (if ever), can you do the Lizard? Either his current incarnation or the classic version would be fine. He's my favorite Spidey villain and I'd like to see your take on him.

[Samson]

If I might make a request for whenever you might have the chance (if ever), can you do the Lizard? Either his current incarnation or the classic version would be fine. He's my favorite Spidey villain and I'd like to see your take on him.

I would guess you are in luck since Taliesin did a 2e version of the Lizard in his 2e Roll Call thread the Lizard is one of those you will see "relatively" soon (he is pretty busy) since I assume he will convert his 2e versions to 3e first before taking on any brand new requests for builds like say Atlas, Blue Marvel, Thunderbird or even Count Nefaria (Yeah, I'm shameless)

[Tyrant Lizard King]

If I might make a request for whenever you might have the chance (if ever), can you do the Lizard? Either his current incarnation or the classic version would be fine. He's my favorite Spidey villain and I'd like to see your take on him.

I would guess you are in luck since Taliesin did a 2e version of the Lizard in his 2e Roll Call thread the Lizard is one of those you will see "relatively" soon (he is pretty busy) since I assume he will convert his 2e versions to 3e first before taking on any brand new requests for builds like say Atlas, Blue Marvel, Thunderbird or even Count Nefaria (Yeah, I'm shameless)

You know, I think the Lizard is a lot stronger than he's normally given credit for. I mean, as Jab posted in his own build, this guy is always a threat when he appears, at least. He's never treated like just another jobber, given that he actually physically outclasses Spider-Man in nearly every area.

But read his first appearance, which I have in my lap: he snaps a tree from its base and hefts it "as if it were cardboard," and the thing's trunk is probably six feet wide. It's a huge tree. On top of that, he throws Spider-Man roughly half a mile. In MEGS, that gave him a Strength of about 11, I believe, as subtracting 2 APs from that gave half a mile distance. I'd check, but I can't find my Blood of Heroes book at the moment. It's a little different in M&M 3E, mostly because the starting distance is different from the 10 feet of MEGS, so you have to do some fiddling to get things right -- I think you have to subtract an additional two ranks, someone posited, to get more "accurate" throwing distances.

But anyway, the Lizard always seemed far stronger to me than the level most put him at -- he's definitely stronger than a 12-ton lift, since that's roughly Spider-Man's level, and he's much more powerful. Stronger than Venom, even, I'd say.

You know, they never really touched on it, but they also say in his first appearance that he has the powers of all lizards. If that's the case, he should be able to see in two directions at once, change his skin color, shoot out his tongue and drop off his tail, to name just a few abilities. At least he can power stunt these things, however.

Taliesin, if you do build the Lizard, would you do the current version? Post-"Shed?" I've been trying to find some information on him, but so far no one's really been able to fill me in.

[catsi563]

Lizards roughly a 15+ tonner strength wise. It wasnt his strength though that gave spidey fits. It was his pure ferocity, it was like fighting a wild animal that was nearly as fast and easilly stronger then he was.

[Tyrant Lizard King]

Lizards roughly a 15+ tonner strength wise. It wasnt his strength though that gave spidey fits. It was his pure ferocity, it was like fighting a wild animal that was nearly as fast and easilly stronger then he was.

Lizard's actually outpaced Spider-Man many times, including in their first appearance. Really, he's faster, tougher, can leap just as well, wall-crawl and significantly stronger. That and his reach and the ferocity you mentioned are definitely why he's given Spider-Man so much trouble. Which is cool.

I still say he's well above even the fifteen ton range, given some of the things I've seen him do. I wouldn't be surprised to see him lift an MBT overhead. He's really strong.

[Taliesin]

The Lizard
PL11

Abilities
Strength 10, Stamina 10, Agility 8, Dexterity 4, Fighting 8, Intellect 0, Awareness 2, Presence 0

Powers
Adherent Footpads: Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling 2) • 4 points
Regrowth: Regeneration 2, Persistent • 3 points
Reptile Control: Perception-Ranged Affliction 11 (Resisted by Will; Entranced, Compelled, Controlled), Limited to Reptiles, Sense-Dependent; Communication 2, Limited to Reptiles; Comprehend 2 (Animals 2), Limited to Reptiles • 19 points
Reptilian Movement: Leaping 3; Speed 4 (30 MPH) • 7 points
Reptilian Senses: Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) • 1 point
Scaly Hide: Protection 4, Impervious • 8 points
Tail: Elongation 1; Extra Limbs 1 • 2 points
Teeth and Claws: Strength-Based Damage 3, Improved Critical, Innate • 5 points

Advantages
Agile Feint, All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Close Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Evasion, Fast Grab, Improved Grab, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Takedown, Track

Skills
Acrobatics 10 (+18), Athletics 8 (+18), Intimidation 8 (+10), Perception 8 (+10), Stealth 4 (+12)

Offense
Initiative +12
Teeth and Claws +9, Close, Damage 13 (Crit 19-20)

Defense
Dodge 8, Parry 8
Toughness 14 (Impervious 4), Fortitude 13, Will 9

Power Points
Abilities 84 + Powers 49 + Advantages 12 + Skills 19 + Defenses 10 = Total 164

Complications
Identity: Stress triggers the transformation of Curt Connors into the Lizard. As Curt Connors, he has no powers, Int 4, Awe 2, Pre 2, and 0 in all other abilities, and Expertise: Biology 12 (+16) and Treatment 8 (+12) skills.
Weakness: The Lizard is cold-blooded and vulnerable to cold, suffering fatigued, exhausted, and asleep conditions from cold effects or in cold temperatures.

Real Name: Curt Connors

Design Notes: Another totem archetype from Spider-Man’s rogues gallery, the Lizard is designed to get in close and staying there. Also like many Spidey villains, he has a built-in weakness to exploit—his sensitivity to cold. All cold effects should attach a commensurate Affliction of the same rank with the listed conditions.

[Tyrant Lizard King]

Awesome!

[Thorpacolypse]

You know, they never really touched on it, but they also say in his first appearance that he has the powers of all lizards. If that's the case, he should be able to see in two directions at once, change his skin color, shoot out his tongue and drop off his tail, to name just a few abilities. At least he can power stunt these things, however.

Taliesin, if you do build the Lizard, would you do the current version? Post-"Shed?" I've been trying to find some information on him, but so far no one's really been able to fill me in.

I can fill in the post-Shed info. The Lizard completely takes over Kahhhhh-nerrrrz (Lizard speak ) personality, "killing" Curt and leaving only The Lizard personality. The final blow was The Lizard killing Connors son while the Connors portion of his psyche was unable to stop him. Without Connors' personality to temper him, he is able to unleash his full reptile control powers, which include control over the reptile portion of people's minds since all animals come from lizards (this is what they said in the book, I didn't say it, so don't jump me creationists ).

As such, he makes a whole city block of people drop their mammal thought process and become pure reptile thinking creatures, thinking only of mating and becoming the dominant male. It was...interesting. Especially when this female reporter started making out with her cameraman who had just bashed in the head of man that was starting to hit on her. Anyway, he made a whole crowd of people turn on Spidey, which was wicked, but Spidey of course kinda won in the end by tricking him.

He didn't seem any faster or stronger, though, just really with an expansion of mind control powers, which in the system would simply be Tally's Reptile Control Affliction with the reptile limitation removed. It was a really good arc, I highly recommend picking up the trade. Amazing Spider-Man has been awesome for the past 6 months or so, I think, even though I wish they would recant the whole One More Day Thing.

[UnkindMirror]

Regrowth: Regeneration 2, Persistent • 3 points

Persistent is currently noted as a normal Extra for Regeneration, not Flat.
Is this meant to be Regeneration 2, Persistent 1, or should it be 2 each?

Or do you perhaps know something about the upcoming errata... ?

[Tyrant Lizard King]

Thanks, Thorp!

See, that OMD thing prevents me from picking up any Spider-Man. I refuse to support that prick Quesada and his decision to make Spider-Man make a deal with the devil. I wish that fact could get more out in public consciousness, maybe there'd be enough backlash from parents and things that they could reverse it, because I can't stand it. I will not buy anything specific to Spider-Man while that stands, though. Even though apparently Ms. Marvel (whom I totally dig) has a crush on him, she said?

However, I am curious about some of the things I heard about the Lizard. Like for one, he's smarter now? He also apparently gained some of Connors' human emotions, because he actually apologized to Spider-Man and called off the attack at one point? Apparently he regretted what he had done and said there was more to life than just killing.

This according to Wikipedia and a couple of other sites. If so, that makes things even more interesting to me.

[Thorpacolypse]

Thanks, Thorp!

See, that OMD thing prevents me from picking up any Spider-Man. I refuse to support that prick Quesada and his decision to make Spider-Man make a deal with the devil. I wish that fact could get more out in public consciousness, maybe there'd be enough backlash from parents and things that they could reverse it, because I can't stand it. I will not buy anything specific to Spider-Man while that stands, though. Even though apparently Ms. Marvel (whom I totally dig) has a crush on him, she said?

However, I am curious about some of the things I heard about the Lizard. Like for one, he's smarter now? He also apparently gained some of Connors' human emotions, because he actually apologized to Spider-Man and called off the attack at one point? Apparently he regretted what he had done and said there was more to life than just killing.

This according to Wikipedia and a couple of other sites. If so, that makes things even more interesting to me.

Actually they re-wrote the reason for the Brand New Day (I wrote the wrong tag line, I can't keep all these arcs straight) in OMIT (One Moment In Time, they are killing me with the tag lines, I tell ya). It's kind of spoilerish so I will do it in white.

Basically, the deal with devil was what Peter was made to think and actually Dr. Strange, along Mr. Fantastic and Iron Man (his magic, their cutting edge tech) made the time/worldwide memory erasing change at Peter's request because of what happened to Aunt May getting shot and all. He begged Dr. Strange and Iron Man and Reed agreed to help, Stark mostly out of guilt. There was an allusion to them doing that before for The Sentry, which made me chuckle with his whole "re-introduction" to the Marvel U.

And actually MJ knew about the whole thing, as Peter made it so that she and he were the only ones to remember the whole thing, and she was the one that called off their relationship because she just couldn't take being with him any more, because it was too hard. I thought that was a weak way out, considering all they'd been through, but so be it.

Like you said, Quesada is a...well, I'm a gentleman so I will simply say, poo-poo head and leave it at that. I really do think that overall the writing has been great, even the Ms. Marvel crush and the usual Black Cat fling, but he should be with MJ, period. Hopefully that will change again when the new movie comes out, much like Stark's revival thanks to Downey's portayal in the movies.

All that being said, that's a sweet Lizard build, Tally. I like him being PL11. He's one of Spidey's villains that it usually takes him all his efforts to beat and he usually has to do it with his head since the Lizard is more physically powerful than he is.

[Tyrant Lizard King]

Yes, it's a great build. I like how you gave him the power he's due, Tal. Lizard is a dangerous foe, as it should be.

... I've wanted to see him slap Venom around for a while. Don't really know why, just always thought it would be cool to see Venom attack Spider-Man while he's with Curt, then have Curt go Lizard and fight Venom.

Thorp, that "reasoning" actually makes the whole thing worse. Ugh. And we'll probably never see the problem fixed, either. How terrible. I think Quesada killed Spider-Man for me forever, unless they reverse what they've done. Man, that was what Ultimate Spider-Man was for, doing the "swingin' bachelor" stuff. This is just godawful.

[Taliesin]

Regrowth: Regeneration 2, Persistent • 3 points

Persistent is currently noted as a normal Extra for Regeneration, not Flat.
Is this meant to be Regeneration 2, Persistent 1, or should it be 2 each?

Or do you perhaps know something about the upcoming errata... ?

I know I can't read.

It's probably not going to be errata'ed IMO, because it follows the trend of defenses being more expensive overall.