The Atomic Think Tank

by **Hellstormer1** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:12 am

^code didn't work, wtf?!

Anyways...ELDERS OF THE UNIVERSE, AWESOME!!!

Question of interest: if they really are these "Elders of the Universe" (haven't read much on them yet), I've heard they're immortal and focus they'reives on a single idea or aspect (or they become immortal because of this?). If that's true, wouldn't/shouldn't they're skills for they're specific roles be cosmically, nearly reduce loudly high, to show how long they've lived and how good they've become at these skills? Not just the routine stuff, but maybe better than everyone else in the whole universe???

I might need to read up on them.

by **saint_matthew** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:32 am

Jabroniville wrote:

[...]

In any case, a nascent Cosmic Being (Origin) and Quasar have both been healed of fatal injuries by her touch

*looks at three boobed image*

Damn you Quasar, you lucky bastard. :roll:

Almost makes up for how bad your own title was, back in the day.

Jabroniville wrote:This is a key, right here. While GLs can be very powerful, they have a finite power source, and must throw up their Force Fields to exist at maximum durability potential, something I don't think they can do while still attacking

They can & do. Kyle didn't back in volume 3 because his shield would activate when he was in trouble even if he was unconsious... But in the relaunched post rebirth era (of Green Lantern volume 4, Green Lantern Corp & Emerald Warrior) they fight with full shields on most of the time. An yes, i did just check the long boxes :wink:

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 1:34 pm

They can & do. Kyle didn't back in volume 3 because his shield would activate when he was in trouble even if he was unconsious... But in the relaunched post rebirth era (of Green Lantern volume 4, Green Lantern Corp & Emerald Warrior) they fight with full shields on most of the time. An yes, i did just check the long boxes

See, I know they usually have the Fields up on some level, but I'm talking the full-on big spherical energy field with the thick walls that takes place as a big defensive maneuver. Typically, GLs can only form one major construct at a time, and their blasts are usually left weaker if they're putting up their best Force Field to protect themselves. Look at the "Sinestro Corps War", which has guys either forming big shields OR blasting away, rarely both. This is more explicit in "JLU", where John Stewart is often highly-vulnerable to sneak attacks and the like while in mid-fight, but if he sees the attacks coming, up comes the Force Wall and stuff.

The DCA stats of course don't reflect this observation, but I think they should. Whenever I build GLs, they maintain a bit of a basic Force Field, but there are more ranks hidden within their Construct Array.

And yes, Hellstormer, the Elders have extremely high levels of Skill in their respective fields, and many have Tech skills beyond even the top-tier Reed Richards & Dr. Doom (Tech & Science at +22-23).

by **jspade** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:41 pm

You have a point about the Lanterns' force fields. They are primarily ranged fighters. On the other hand, getting that force field up will pretty much stop anyone cold, at least as long as the Lantern keeps his will focused on it. The question, mechanically, is whether that's his full Standard Action or not. It seems to be done in reaction to an attack, not as the full action...

As for planet busting... while I don't recall any instances of Hal actually breaking a planet, I recall a couple where the easy solution to the problem was to change a planet's orbit, so he did it.

by **saint_matthew** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:31 pm

Jabroniville wrote:
They can & do. Kyle didn't back in volume 3 because his shield would activate when he was in trouble even if he was unconsious... But in the relaunched post rebirth era (of Green Lantern volume 4, Green Lantern Corp & Emerald Warrior) they fight with full shields on most of the time. An yes, i did just check the long boxes

See, I know they usually have the Fields up on some level, but I'm talking the full-on big spherical energy field with the thick walls that takes place as a big defensive maneuver.

Oh, you mean a bubble construct. Nah those are only used when they absolutely need to hide from something nasty... An yeah, its because the ring has natural inbuilt limitations on how much power it can use at once.

EDIT: You also got a shout out over in my campaign creation thread, where i've nicked your cosmic entity image. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44674&p=1028325#p1028325

by **Thorpacolypse** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:48 pm

Jabroniville wrote:
They can & do. Kyle didn't back in volume 3 because his shield would activate when he was in trouble even if he was unconsious... But in the relaunched post rebirth era (of Green Lantern volume 4, Green Lantern Corp & Emerald Warrior) they fight with full shields on most of the time. An yes, i did just check the long boxes

See, I know they usually have the Fields up on some level, but I'm talking the full-on big spherical energy field with the thick walls that takes place as a big defensive maneuver. Typically, GLs can only form one major construct at a time, and their blasts are usually left weaker if they're putting up their best Force Field to protect themselves. Look at the "Sinestro Corps War", which has guys either forming big shields OR blasting away, rarely both. This is more explicit in "JLU", where John Stewart is often highly-vulnerable to sneak attacks and the like while in mid-fight, but if he sees the attacks coming, up comes the Force Wall and stuff.

The DCA stats of course don't reflect this observation, but I think they should. Whenever I build GLs, they maintain a bit of a basic Force Field, but there are more ranks hidden within their Construct Array.

I'm really torn about the whole Lantern force field thing. I originally built them similar to you, Jab, but I have caved on my 3E Lanterns and given them the full force field all the time like the core builds. I have the same issue with characters like Magneto and Graviton, who also function similarly. You don't normally see that full field up all the time and they can get cold-cocked in combat by fairly weak characters if they don't have that field up. As they are now, you'd have to beat them down quite a bit for someone like Mockingbird or Nightcrawler to get that sneak KO as they have done in the comics.

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:56 pm

Also, it should be fairly easy to boost the Field by a bit, just by taking some of the Penetrating off of an Energy Blast or something- the Blasts typically aren't the most expensive parts of the array anyhow, nor are basic Force Fields. So they can still do it all at once

.

But in any case, I still think a Herald would curbstomp a GL, though it's not TOTALLY impossible for Hal, Guy, Kyle or John to beat say, Terrax, with some smart fighting. A Herald would have the edge in power (I don't think any GL has matched Terrax's "Move Object" feat with Manhattan there, or hit with quite the destructive force), but GLs tend to be better fighters, as Heralds are pretty clumsy guys who fail to hit the heroes most of the time (since, y'know, they'll kill 'em if they connected). In any case, my "ideal" GL builds would be only a step or two behind the PL 15 Heralds- I'd probably make Hal a PL 12, for example.

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:58 pm

Truly, the most intimidating of Elders.

THE TRADER
Created By: Steve Englehart & Marshall Rogers
First Appearance: Silver Surfer #5 (Nov. 1987)
Role: Cosmic Trader
Group Affiliations: The Elders of the Universe
PL 14 (232)
STRENGTH 5 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 7 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Expertise (Science) 3 (+10)
Expertise (Cosmic Lore) 2 (+9)
Expertise (Space Traveller) 7 (+14)
Expertise (History) 4 (+11)
Expertise (Trading) 17 (+24)
Insight 8 (+13)
Perception 5 (+10)
Persuasion 10 (+15)

Advantages:
Benefit (Elder of the Universe), Diehard, Eidetic Memory, Ranged Attack 8, Skill Mastery (Trading), Ultimate Trading Skill, Well-Informed

Powers:
"The Power Primordial"
Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Immortality 3 (1 week) [6]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [3]
Senses 1 (Communication Link- Other Elders) [1]

"Emotion Control" Affliction 14 (Will; Impaired Insight/Compelled) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative, Sustained +2) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (70) -- [72]

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Cosmic Blast +10 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Emotion Control +14 Area (+14 Affliction, DC 24)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +10, Fortitude +13, Will +10

Complications:
Obsession (Trading)- The Trader is obsessed with trading for profit or other mysterious goals. He's good enough at it that he's attained two Infinity Gems by trade.

Total: Abilities: 78 / Skills: 56--28 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 93 / Defenses: 19 (232)

-The Trader is basically a cosmic buyer and seller of people, planets and objects- he shows up mostly in background segments, and has never been the most important character in any given story. Like Caregiver, his true powers and levels are a mystery, but the Marvel SAGA RPG states that he has Emotion Control-type powers, which I choose to stat up more as a "Compelled" than "Controlled", since it allows him to utilize his unnatural Skills of Persuasion to benefit (ie. he can't just MAKE someone accept his deals- he CAN, however, make his deals seem like the best possible idea).

by **Jabroniville** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:09 pm

THE CONTEMPLATOR (Tath Ki)
Created By: Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Marvel Treasury Special #1 (1976)
Role: Cosmic Sensei
Group Affiliations: The Elders of the Universe
PL 15 (331)
STRENGTH 4/10 STAMINA 5/11 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 8 AWARENESS 7 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 5 (+10)
Athletics 4 (+8)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+10)
Expertise (Cosmic Lore) 10 (+18)
Expertise (Space Traveller) 9 (+17)
Expertise (History) 4 (+12)
Expertise (Philosophy) 6 (+14)
Insight 8 (+15)
Perception 10 (+17)
Technology 2 (+10)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Assessment, Benefit (Elder of the Universe), Defensive Attack, Diehard, Eidetic Memory, Fearless, Great Endurance, Jack-of-All-Trades, Ranged Attack 7, Ritualist, Trance, Well-Informed

Powers:
"The Power Primordial"
Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Immortality 3 (1 week) [6]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [3]
Senses 1 (Communication Link- Other Elders) [1]
Movement 2 (Space Travel 2) (Extras: Instantaneous Teleportation) [6]
"Self-Levitation" Flight 6 (120 mph) [12]

"Cosmic Mind"
Comprehend 4 (Languages 4) [8]
"Cosmic Sight" Senses 9 (Extended Vision 4, Analytical Vision, Precognition) [9]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Space) [2]
"Mental Detection" Senses 5 (Mental Awareness- Ranged 2, Radius, Acute) [5]

"One With The Universe: Cosmic Awareness"
Features 1: Directed Inspiration- May ask the GM a Question With an HP [1]
Senses 1 (Cosmic Awareness- Ranged 3) [4]

Mind-Reading 15 (Feats: Dynamic, Dimensional) (Feats: Subtle 2) (Extras: Effortless, Cumulative, Sensory Link) (79) -- [99]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Boosted +12 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Mind-Reading -- (+15, DC 25)
Mind Control -- (+15 Affliction, DC 25)
Group Control +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Mental Blast -- (+15 Perception Affliction, DC 25)
Cosmic Blast +11 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +5 (+11 Boosted), Fortitude +10, Will +15

Complications:
Obsession (Contemplation)- Tath Ki has devoted himself to floating about the universe thinking about stuff. He knows a lot about everything.
Enemy (Skrull Impersonator)- A Skrull impersonated The Contemplator for years- basically taking part in all the "out of character" stories, like when Contemplator helped try to kill Galactus.
Responsibility (Pacifist)- Tath Ki avoids using his powers for violent ends.

Total: Abilities: 94 / Skills: 62--32 / Advantages: 19 / Powers: 167 / Defenses: 19 (331)

-The Contemplator is sorta like a mystical Space Buddha who goes around informing others about stuff, and he's generally one of the kindest and most-noble of The Elders, rarely fighting anyone. He's helped out Captain America and Quasar on their quests, and he's an all-around nice dude. Power-wise, he sort of combines an Elder of the Universe with Professor Xavier, becoming a PL 15 Cosmic Mind-Controller with extreme distance on his Mental Communication (basically Universe-wide), an assortment of Alt-Effects (including Psychokinesis, Boosting his physical abilities, Cosmic Blasts, and more). He goes PL 11-14 all over the place with varying attacks, and is one of the most powerful telepaths in the universe. It's a good thing he's a good guy, because that points-cost is NUTS, and dangerous on a heroic character.

by **Grayson** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:23 am

So, a Skrull was the short pudgy Contemplator that I remember from like the 80's? By the way, did you mean to refer to the Trader as a "Herald" just under his image? Nice builds, can't wait to see what you do for the Possessor.

by **Jabroniville** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:48 am

Yup- a bunch of "out of character" stuff from The Contemplator was edited out, Doombot-style. And yup- I meant to say Elder, and switched it out right before I saw your comment

. Contemplator was always pretty Buddha-esque as far as I remember; that image was the only good one I could find, and he looks different there. Not that an Elder having various forms is out of the ordinary (I've seen images of The Collector from the '90s where he has spikey things swooping around his head and no hair).

by **Skavenger** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:33 pm

For so long I used to get the Controller and the Collector mixed up. The Controller would show up and get his ass kicked by someone like Spider-Man or Maria Hill and my initial thought would always be "wait...wasn't this guy one of the Elders of the Universe?"

by **Jabroniville** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:51 pm

Is he... wearing a microwave?

THE OBLITERATOR (Maht Pacle)
Created By: Steve Englehart & Marshall Rogers
First Appearance: Silver Surfer #4 (Oct. 1987)
Role: Cosmic Muchkin Roleplayer
Group Affiliations: The Elders of the Universe
PL 14 (229)
STRENGTH 13 STAMINA 15 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Expertise (Science) 4 (+4)
Expertise (Cosmic Lore) 4 (+4)
Expertise (Space Traveller) 7 (+7)
Expertise (History) 4 (+4)
Expertise (Soldier) 7 (+7)
Intimidation 13 (+13)
Perception 4 (+4)
Technology 5 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Benefit (Elder of the Universe), Diehard, Equipment 11 (Space-Glider), Quick Draw, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle

Powers:
"The Power Primordial"
Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Immortality 3 (1 week) [6]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [3]
Senses 1 (Communication Link- Other Elders) [1]

"The Obliterator's Space Weapons" (Flaws: Removable) [59]
Blast 18 (Feats: Extended Range 2- x400 ft., Split, Penetrating 14) (Extras: Multiattack) (71) -- (73 points)

Equipment:
"Space Glider" Toughness 12 (3), Flight 12 (24), Space Travel 2 (4), Weapons- Blast 12 (24)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Space Weapons +10 (+18 Ranged Damage, DC 33)
Area Attacks +14 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +15, Fortitude +15, Will +8

Complications:
Obsession (Destruction)- Offended by the existence of other life in the universe, The Obliterator is devoted to wiping it all out. He killed his entire world when he discovered his immortality.

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 23 / Powers: 78 / Defenses: 15 (229)

-The Obliterator is what would happen if The Champion dropped all that pesky characterization and just became a one-note fighter... well, MORE of a one-note fighter. The Obliterator is one of those "I killed my entire race out of boredom" guys (yes, comics has more than one), and fought The Silver Surfer until ol' Norrin turned his guns into dust. The dude's still strong as hell, but his gun back-pack thingie (Removable and not Easily Removable) is still his best weapon. Determining his Strength is tough, because bio-sites are actually rather light on info for these guys as a whole- I just translated what Marvel's SAGA System used.

by **Jabroniville** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:56 pm

THE RUNNER
Created By: Peter B. Gillis & Don Perlin
First Appearance: The Defenders #143 (May 1985)
Role: Cosmic Flash-Type Guy
Group Affiliations: The Elders of the Universe
PL 15 (353)
STRENGTH 13 STAMINA 16 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 14 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+13)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+8)
Expertise (Cosmic Lore) 7 (+13)
Expertise (Space Traveller) 14 (+20)
Expertise (History) 4 (+10)
Intimidation 3 (+8)
Perception 5 (+6)
Persuasion 5 (+10)
Technology 4 (+10)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Benefit (Elder of the Universe), Close Attack, Defensive Attack, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 9, Redirect, Seize Initiative, Takedown 2

Powers:
"The Power Primordial"
Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Immortality 3 (1 week) [6]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [3]
Senses 1 (Communication Link- Other Elders) [1]
Movement 3 (Space Travel 3) [6]
Impervious Toughness 15 [15]

"Likeability Field" Affliction 6 (Will; Impaired Attacks/Compelled) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Reaction +3) (Flaws: Limited Degree) [24]

"Speediest Damn Thing in the Universe"
Flight 20 (2,000,000 mph) (40) -- [41]

AE: Speed 20 (2,000,000 mph) (20)Quickness 15 [15]
Enhanced Advantages 5: Enhanced Initiative 5 [5]

"Speed Feats"
Movement 3 (Wall-Crawling 2, Water-Walking) (Flaws: Limited to While Running) [3]
Cosmic Blast 17 (34) -- [44]

Offense:
Unarmed +15 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Rapid Attack +15 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Hit Everyone +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Spin Attack +15 (+14 Affliction, DC 24)
Suffocation +12 Area (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
Cosmic Blast +13 (+17 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +32

Defenses:
Dodge +14 (DC 24), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +16 (+8 Impervious), Fortitude +16, Will +9

Complications:
Obsession (Running & Travelling)- The Runner wishes to see the Universe, and he does this by running his whole way through it.
Motivation (Hedonism)- The Runner enjoys life, and typically does not engage in violent acts. Except for when he does, which is a lot, actually.

Total: Abilities: 132 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 23 / Powers: 159 / Defenses: 14 (353)

-The Runner is one of the cooler-looking Elders, being a high-level Golden-Skinned God-type, and he makes his due being the generally fastest guy in the entire Marvel Universe. He's supposedly a hedonist out for pleasure and fun, but he seems to get into an awful lot of fights, including taking part in a plot to kill Galactus, and threatening to beat Thanos to death at Light Speed with the help of his Space Gem- it can only be assumed that later writers basically changed his characterization in order to justify various fight scenes. And this guy is one of the few beings around to hold an EASY victory over The Silver Surfer, pounding him into the dirt at super-luminal speeds while Norrin could only sit there and take it.

-The Runner's stats are truly-frightening: He's basically Flash combined with The Hulk, bashing people to smithereens at super-speed while being super-resistant to harm himself. PL 15 is basically putting him at the Surfer's level (implying that it'd be more even if Norrin was read for him- hell, that same storyline he got tripped up by MANTIS, and Steve Englehart wasn't even writing... oh wait, OF COURSE HE WAS, so she might as well have been PL 20 at the time). And he's not just high-powered- he's EXPENSIVE, costing a ridiculous amount of points (easy to see why, given all the Templates he sticks over himself- hell, he even has a weird Aura of Likeability that makes people more likely to agree with and like him, even if he's betrayed them in the past!).

-The Runner's stats and Advantages means that he can alter many of his caps at-will, including being more defensive than normal (common for Speedsters- his durability means he isn't as dodge-focused comparatively as a scaled-up Speedster would normally be). He can use The Power Primordial for a stunning array of effects, considering he normally just fights like a Speedster does- he can rearrange stuff, phase through solid objects, go invisible, etc. (the latter stuff is from Marvel SAGA RPG, so I'm not sure if that's ever REALLY shown up or is just conjecture, but whatever, it's not like I was out to crib on points here).

-The Space Gem would make him even TOUGHER, probably boosting him to PL 16-17, enough to EASILY defeat Thanos just by using hand-to-hand. At those speeds, his punches were virtually Perception-Ranged attacks.

by **saint_matthew** » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:43 pm

Jabroniville wrote:

Anyone else look at this guy & think wow Jab, you forgot this characters ability to shift realities, because i swear i saw him in Earth 2 recently.

The Atomic Think Tank

Jab's Builds: He-Man, Ram Man, Teela, Man-at-Arms, Fisto

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Stardust, Ravenous, Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Fallen One, Bug, Annihilus, Elders- Collector

Re: Jab's Builds: Annihilus, Collector, Trader, Contemplator

Re: Jab's Builds: Annihilus, Collector, Trader, Contemplator

Re: Jab's Builds: Annihilus, Collector, Trader, Contemplator

Re: Jab's Builds: Annihilus, Collector, Trader, Contemplator

Re: Jab's Builds: Annihilus, Collector, Trader, Contemplator

Re: Jab's Builds: Annihilus, Collector, Trader, Contemplator

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