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Jab's Builds: Cassidy, Herr Starr, The Saint of Killers

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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby Horsenhero » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:14 pm

Yay!! :lol: Thanks Jab.

And I promise (for as long as I remember I made such a promise), even though I will never agree with you and those emasculated wonders who wrote those articles about the fanservice thing, I won't beat that horse any more. There's no changing either sides' mind, so why bother arguing. Just know, that I don't now, nor will I ever... agree. 8)
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby Jabroniville » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:46 pm

I was gonna make the same comment last time, except is always sounds like an admission of failure to do it while the debate's still strong. I agree we should drop it (it's only a side category of Suck in a big list, and hardly my main problem with comics). We both made our points- my own brilliant ones, and your own sexist ones (:P), and now it's best to let the matter lie.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby Geekery » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:40 pm

Okay, am I crazy, or was Scott Lobdell a giant hack who ruined the X-books?

You are not crazy. I quit reading comics altogether during his run. Not even Grant Morrison's New X-Men was able to pull that off.

Since the "women in comics" thing hasn't been adequately beaten to death, I'll toss out these two random factoids:

1) Wonder Woman got her powers (and skimpy outfit) back due in part to a rant from Gloria Steinem. I consider that somewhat ironic.
2) Miss Fanservice herself, Power Girl, was conceived specifically as a feminist character. Compare this particular Epic Fail to, say, Tyroc. There is a reason why I shun political commentary in comics.

Finally, Jab, as much as I'm enjoying the tour, I should point out that you are KILLING me with who's and whose. Please forgive my grammar compulsions.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby BARON » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:07 pm

it's funny too, because if you check the special features on the batman/superman apocalypse dvd you hear comic creators talk about supergirl and it sounds like they've got a slam dunk idea for a comic that is 100% perfect for female readers. in the end they don't have to. they know that if someone is going to buy a book with girl characters it's going to probably be because of "fan service". i know plenty of girls who read comics, but they avoid the superhero genre and who can blame them?
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby Horsenhero » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:41 pm

My ex was a huge "Love and Rockets" (the comic, not the band) fan, and after the comic switched from sci-fi to...whatever it was supposed to be...it bored me to tears. Men and women generally like different things, and if saying that makes me sexist...so be it.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby Sidious » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:20 pm

Jabroniville wrote:Hm, putting Cameron Hodge on it... I hadn't thought of that. I HATED him as a kid, but I think it was more of a general "I want him to die" thing, which you kind of WANT in a villain. He IS way over-powered for a villain, though (intangible, plus immune to psionic attacks). It's tough to say. Guys like the Alliance of Evil are terrible, but get kind of a pass since, like I mentioned in my criteria section, they're more set for one-shots. You only suck as bad as your footprint on the comic-book world. Technically, most of the WORST characters are all one-shot villains who never went anywhere.


Surprisingly the same way I feel about Stuart Townsend. I'm hoping that means he's a good actor.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby Jabroniville » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:57 pm

Who's & Whose... oh jesus. I'm usually a grammar nazi (except for my tendency to make run-on sentences that go on for way too long), and I totally missed that. And on EVERY SINGLE SLOT. Wow. How embarassing. Thank you for catching that, gotta do a search & replace.

Cripes. I'm normally the type of guy who makes sure he never ends a sentence with a preposition (in text format anyways).
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Comic Characters List- #80-61

Postby Jabroniville » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:41 am

59) MR. SINISTER
Whose Fault Is it:
Chris Claremont & Marc Silvestri
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (kept showing up in the '90s)
Angsty: 0
Boring: 3 (all he ever did was show up, mock some guys, and then be cryptic)
Over-Powered (x2): 3 (waaaayyyy too invincible)
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 3 (I still don't know what his exact power-set is)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (looks very '90s)
Goofy (x2): 1 (his name could be cool on a Batman-type villain who was insane, but not a big capped bad-ass)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 16 just a big fat boring waste)

-Ah, Mr. Sinister. The bastard child of the X-Men "Master Villain" trifecta. Magneto's the personable, agreeable savior of mutantkind, Apocalypse is the super-powerful god, and Sinister... just kinda is there. He's the wheeler-dealer/secret plotter of the three, which makes for some bizarre retcons and even weirder definition of his powers. I always hated stories with him as a kid, because you never got a good fight- he was so invincible (Cyclops & Rogues' best shots do NOTHING, and he just heals right back from any actual damage) that nothing could hurt him, and he was that type of cryptic "I'm not gonna give you any answers" villain that I HATE.

Image

Seriously, who on Earth would take this guy seriously?

58) BLACK MANTA
Whose Fault Is it:
Bob Haney & Nick Cardy
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 2 (he was autistic and had a crappy past)
Boring: 1 (the fate of all Aquaman foes)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 2 (multiple retcons, as well as changing personas and characterization)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (obviously a plain '60s design)
Goofy (x2): 3 (just look at him. That helmet is RIDICULOUS, and reduces every scene he's in to pure hilarity)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2 (OMG he killed the Aquababy!)
Stereotypical: 2 (a black guy with "Black" in his codename, and once suggested he was going to make a utopia for oppressed blacks underseas. Ah well, at least he was a black guy who could swim)
SUCK FACTOR: 16 (HE LOOKS LIKE A PEZ DISPENSER!!)

-Just an idiotic Aquaman villain, doing stuff For the Evulz and trying to kill everyone around. A mixed of overly-Extreme with the worst villain design I've ever seen. I can't take anyone seriously with a helmet that stupid.

57) M/PENANCE
Whose Fault Is it:
Scott Lobdell & Chris Bachalo
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 3 (a shamed sister of twins)
Boring: 0
Over-Powered (x2): 2 (a little TOO invincible)
Xeroxed (x2): 1 (Paragon or Claw Chick. Both are tired)
Mysterious/Confusing: 3 (Easily the worst origin of a character in comic book history. So confusing I have to re-read the whole story every time just to keep track of it)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 2 (the whole "is actually a combo of twins" origin)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 16 (OK, I just read her origin story, then I forgot it already)

-M is the winner of one of the most dubious awards in all of comics: the most inane, bizarre, overly complex origin story in the history of the medium. Seriously, every time I read what it was, I pretty much forget it because it was so complicated. See, she was M, and a teammate was named Penance. Then it turned out that Penance was actually M, and M was actually her two sisters, who had merged to MAKE M. Or something. It was totally retarded, and made the Generation-X book look like a piece of crap. Marvel has calmly resorbed that book into it's X-line, having given up on many members (Jubilee, Skin, Penance & Synch), while adding a few more to short runs on other X-teams (Husk, M, Chamber), which always bugged me, because the far superior in EVERY WAY New Mutants ended up with so few "Graduates".

56) MACHINE-MAN
Whose Fault Is it:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
Categories of Suck:[/b]
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 3 ("why oh why am I a machine?" gets old after a while)
Boring: 2 (a robot with generic powers and a lame personality)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 2 (the "I want to be human" thing's been done)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 2 (his design is atrocious, and lacks the modern-type verve of Kirby's characters)
Goofy (x2): 3 (looks stupid as hell- big yellow eyes, a purple costume, and big extendo-arms)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
[b]SUCK FACTOR: 17 ("oh, how I wish I were human" zzzzzzzzzzzzz)


-Jack Kirby was doing one of his "what is the nature of humanity?" things with Machine-Man, but it just never stuck. His later creations never quite had the impact of his Marvel Silver Age stuff, and the goofy purple X-51 was no exception. Hell, even STEVE DITKO got a run at him on art, and it still failed quickly and badly. Poor guy had a silly look, lame powers, and was your standard Star Trek morality tale, which was totally run into the ground by that point (Vision, for example, did it much better). In recent years with "Nextwave", he's basically been a riff on Futurama's Bender, but a lot more annoying- he reads like that crappy player in a Role Playing Game who always wants to be the crazy asshole who says offensive things (writing Bender-type characters is harder than it looks). My only modern memories of him are in Marvel's HORRIBLE "Technical Guy" run of books under one label, all of which died horrible, horrible deaths.

Image

It looks like Image Comics threw up on him!

55) CYBER
Whose Fault Is it:
Peter David & Sam Keith
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (was a big anti-Wolvie player for a while)
Angsty: 0
Boring: 0
Over-Powered (x2): 3 (adamanitum SKIN? And he's supposed to be so tough even LOGAN fears him. I mean, come on)
Xeroxed (x2): 2 (yet another Adamantium-powered Wolverine foe)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 2 (very 90s)
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 3 (a murderous ex-soldier with POISON AND ADAMANTIUM!)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 17 (Like something out of fan-fiction)

-I hate characters like Cyber. It's like, some writer goes "Hey, y'know what'd be REALLY bad-ass? If Wolverine fought ANOTHER guy with claws! Only... this guy's claws secrete POISON! And his SKIN is made out of Adamantium, too! AWESOME!" Peter David, I'm ashamed of you for creating this fanboy's-wet-dream monstrosity. They were actually good enough to de-push and kill him off in the late-90s (during the "No-Nose Wolverine" arc), but he's since returned with links to Wolverine's son Daken (I'm just amazed they went fourty years of Wolverine being established as older than dirt before giving him a 'son he never knew'- I've seen guys at most in their thirties be pushed down that road).

54) ABRAXAS
Whose Fault Is it:
Jeph Loeb & Kevin Maguire
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (got a huge climactic storyline)
Angsty: 0
Boring: 3 (ANOTHER Cosmic Entity with weak motivation)
Over-Powered (x2): 3 (Cosmic Entity)
Xeroxed (x2): 3 (see "Boring", above)
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (bizarre origin story)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 18 (generic cosmic entity)

-Yet another big dumb cosmic entity, Abraxas flew in and killed Galactus, the Silver Surfer and a bunch of guys, had no personality, and was just destruction personified. Totally a boring idea, and an excess to Marvel's already top-heavy cosmic scene. He's sorta the embodiment of universal destruction, a counter-point to Eternity. Just a bad story and a lame idea.

53) NERON
Whose Fault Is it:
Mark Waid & Howard Porter
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (shows up in various "Big Events" like we're supposed to care)
Angsty: 0
Boring: 1 ("Cosmic Villains" tend to go this way- not a lot they can really get involved in physically because they're so mighty, plus the "temptation-based villain" thing has been run into the ground)
Over-Powered (x2): 3 (Cosmic Being)
Xeroxed (x2): 3 (Just a rip-off of Marvel's Mephisto)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (looks really '90s)
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 1 (he's basically the Devil)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 17 ("Hey, let's just use Mephisto, but give him blonde hair and a '90s cape" "Why don't we just use Satan and cut out the middle-man?" "Uh... I dunno.")

-Neron's just a terrible character, responsible for dozens of boring storylines. A generic Hell Demon Guy, he doesn't do anything Marvel's Mephisto didn't already do, while looking better and having more personality, to boot. This guy BLOWS.

Image
Image

52) THE NEO
Whose Fault Is it:
Chris Claremont & Leinil Francis Yu
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 2 (Claremont REALLY wanted us to think his new team was cool- all the others talked about how awesome and powerful they were, ad nauseum)
Angsty: 1
Boring: 3 (no personalities)
Over-Powered (x2): 2 (they were supposed to be like mutants, but MORE powerful in general. Not that this was ever SHOWN...)
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (a hidden past and all that nonsense)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 2
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 3 (many uber-extreme powers, including a guy who had gun-hands)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 18 (Claremont wanted them to succeed SO BAD)

-GOD Claremont got bad in his later years. The Neo are right up their with Sage in terms of "he's senile as all hell". These guys showed up as a FanFic-level bad idea of "They're a breed of mutants that are even MORE powerful than regular mutants!" We even got a giant bunch of backstory about how they were famous even in Cable's time, and Apocalypse had referred to his respect for them (this is known as "Shilling the Wesley" in TV Tropes-speak, where the writer puts words in other characters' mouths to express how great his new idea really is), but they were TERRIBLE. Every one of them was this extreme-looking tattooed punker (I hate punkers...) freak with silly powers and a weird Dark Age name. They were nearly all identical, and they utterly failed to live up to all the hype. Claremont's big return to the X-Men having failed, he was dumped off the team, and then the most hilarious thing ever in comics happened.
-Domina (the leader) and her men were sitting around one day, and then Magneto just came flying in and went "KNEEL". Domina talked some smack, and so Mags literally turned his head and WIPED OUT HALF OF THE NEO! He basically said they sucked, offed a swack of them, and demanded they drop this anti-regular mutant crap NOW and join his army! AND THEY DID! Then the writers didn't bother to use them for a long time, and they probably all died in the Sentinel Genocide on Genosha. Yes, they literally devalued the entire team, ripped on them and then PISSED on the ashes! I don't think I've EVER seen a writer disrespect a crappy character this bad since Deathcry was wiped out!

51) CAMERON HODGE
Whose Fault Is it:
Bob Layton & Jackson Guice
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 0
Boring: 2 (he had so many powers and abilities that fights featuring him were completely boring)
Over-Powered (x2): 3 (he could phase through things AND was immune to Psionics, in addition to making a deal that left him permanently immortal. This is Dragon Ball Z levels of stupid unkillableness right here)
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (his whole origin, plus his cybernetics and dealing with demons)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 3 (looks VERY '90s)
Goofy (x2): 2 (tried to do a "whacky crazy villain" thing, but was stupid)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 3 (GIANT KILLER CYBORG AAAAAARGH!!!!)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 20 (what happens when you add too many powers onto a "Crazy Guy" set-up)

-Yeah, I hated Hodge as a kid. And Horsenhero is right, his Suck Factor IS tremendous. I figured my hatred was in the"I want him to die via the heroes" kind of way, but no- in retrospect I don't even like READING about him. He just got made so totally unkillable, and he's that blantant kind of Chaotic Evil villain that's just an insane mass-murderer who drools and acts like the "Whacky Guy" crazy-hero RPG-Gamers (but as a VILLAIN, which makes his scenery-chewing hamminess even WORSE), that he overpowers every story he's involved in, and makes me hate him all the more. Hodge is even worse than Mojo in that regard.

50) CRAPPY GOLDEN AGE CHARACTERS (Captain Wonder, The Crimson Avenger, Midnight, Merlin & Sargon, The Whizzer, The Fin, The Red Torpedo, etc.)
Whose Fault Is it:
Various writers
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 0
Boring: 3 (the key to all of their failures, actually)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 3 (the '40s was a BAD time for this. There was so little regulation or avenues for fans to go down that companies were free to just blatantly steal concepts. Midnight rips off The Spirit. Various patriotic heroes ripped-off The Shield & Captain America. The Crimson Avenger & Wing are so blatant I can't believe the Green Hornet & Kato's creators didn't sue the crap out of DC. The Fin is Bill Everett's knock-off of his own Namor. There were literally a DOZEN "Sorceror" characters stealing from Mandrake the Magician)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 2 (obviously heroes from this era tend to look it)
Goofy (x2): 3 (A lot of cases, from obvious rip-offs to outright stupid designs- The Fin is particularly bad, but The Red Torpedo and his submarine stand out as well)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 17 (a horde of rip-offs unlike any other)

-The Golden Age of Comics was a funny time... guys just really didn't have anything to base all of their stuff on, so it was a giant storm of throwing every possible thing at the wall to see what stuck. The GIANT sales of Superman, Captain Marvel, Captain America and others would lead to an EXPLOSION of crudely-drawn strips with ugly lantern-jawed heroes wearing the most ridiculous primary-coloured costumes in history. And 99% of these comics were lurid TRASH- there is a very good reason why only a tiny amount of these guys are famous these days. Every time a good, successful character would be created, we'd immediately see a score of rip-offs, so blatant they would never pass in ANY other era (save the '90s with junk like Nightwatch). Wildcat was a rip of Batman (but was later properly made cool in later eras), tons of patriotic heroes ripped off The Shield, and later Cap (who kinda ripped off The Shield- hence his old triangular shield), there were a TON of Magician-themed characters ripping Mandrake (even Zatara). Sadly, DC's big "First Superhero Ever" (retroactively, since obviously Superman couldn't be that, Post-Crisis), The Crimson Avenger, was just The Green Hornet with the serial numbers filed off- he even had a small Chinese sidekick (Kato to Wing)! DC's Midnight was the same to The Spirit, because Will Eisner was away at War. A "Wonder Man" came out right after Superman did, and his makers were sued into oblivion- Fawcett was much smarter with Captain Marvel, changing just enough to be different, and even THEY eventually lost their character. The Whizzer is Marvel's rip-off of The Flash, only named and dressed after human piss.

-So this entry supplies a spot for all of these rip-offs and terrible characters. A few became big later on, but most of these guys rightly vanished eons ago. They only lose out by being kind of non-factors in the comic book world. I mean, does The Blue Diamond really matter at all, in the long run?
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:47 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Characters List- #80-51 (Cyber, Manta)

Postby MrMorrison » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:04 am

I won't weigh in on your choices -- obviously they're your dislikes, nothing wrong with that... but I have to disagree just once. The Power Company was one of the comics that I started reading after a long period away from comics and I really enjoyed it. I wish that team had made it. They were (in my opinion) fun, and fun to read about. I actually think the concept may have been a little bit of "at the wrong time" and a team like that now -- a corporate super-team -- might get a better reception.

And for the love of everything -- I don't want to start a debate over the sexism thing again -- please, but I will also, respectfully, disagree with your opinion on this. And that's all I'll say on that (I really don't want it to start up again).

One thing though -- in a thread where you are calling out the major companies for sexism and racism, please don't ruin your own credibility by using the phrase "looks like a 'tard (your Nomad rant)." That's about as insensitive as you could be to a group of people. I know it's a common phrasing -- heck I feel guilty even pointing it out -- but it also demonstrates how things we notice are different from things we don't when it comes to valuing certain groups (not that I think it makes you a bad guy or anything -- it's just something I noticed when reading through).

Other than that -- I share your feelings about the emotional spectrum losing it's steam, and disagree about Judd Winick, who is pretty much my favorite writer in comics... his Outsiders run is one of my all time favorites.

Still, despite all that -- this is very entertaining. I'm sure it's actually a good bit of work, so I can respect the time you put into it to make something fun to read.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Characters List- #80-51 (Cyber, Manta)

Postby Jabroniville » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:35 pm

Hm, yeah, the phrase "retard" has entered the common perjorative to such an extent that even I'm guilty of it at times. I'll edit it out. Funnily enough, there's a webcomic writer out there named Jeph Jacques (writes "Questionable Content") who is VERY PC, ultra-liberal and all that. He was at the forefront of a movement getting angry about some imbecile who actually said "I want to have your babies!" to a female webcomic author as if it were some wonderful compliment and not really, REALLY creepy. He introduced a character who was polyamorous in his strip and had her question the concept (realizing it wasn't for her), and then wrote a three-paragraph dialogue in his Comments section apologizing to polyamorous people for accidentally maybe offending them, and trying desperately not to step on their toes. I mean this guy was LIBERAL. So much it made me laugh frequently (that's why I found it so funny I was being accused of "drinking the Gloria Steinem Kool-Aid" and sharing opinions with "emasculated" men- I hate most feminists, and once read a comic called "Space Moose" where a character actively went around killing them) at the lengths he'd go to not offend certain minority groups.

HIS word for when people were being idiots or making stupid comments? "Retarded." I find that funny. It's so common even HE did it.

Also funny is I just used the word "idiot" and "imbecile", both of which were once used primarily to describe different degrees of mental retardation. Part of the "Euphemism treadmill", where "retarded" eventually become the NICE version of the words to describe those people. The problem is, as long as there's a group of people out there who have far below normal intelligence, whatever name you use for them is going to become synonymous with "stupid"- nothing will ever change that. I remember when "Special" was the "nice" word, and now IT'S become an insult against people.

I should point out I'm the least-PC person in the universe. A friend (whom I was criticizing rap/hip-hop culture as being "embarassing to blacks" to, all Boondocks-style) once described me as an "equal opportunity racist" because I don't let ANY group slide- white, black, arab, etc. I ranted about the Israelis to him, but also mentioned how the Palestinians were jerks the entire Middle East also hates, then I went on to complain about how natives/aboriginal/whatever they're called now in my hometown are like 90% drunks and give the good ones a bad name. I'm the type who doesn't take a side so much as accuses both cultures in any conflict of being idiotic- so I can't always be counted on to keep everyone's feelings intact. I strive for equality in all things- and that includes being satirized and publically-mocked (like George Carlin in that respect). But I'll try to stop using "retard" as a standard word to describe one person. I'll probably always use "Retarded" as a descriptor, just because it's too ingrained in me, though I was at least able to stop using "gay" as one (replacing it with "lame" is actually unintentionally ALSO kind of bad, but y'know, there's a limit to how PC I can get).

Regarding The Power Company... it's just one of those weird things... they just seemed so mediocre and generic to me, and they came and went with such a whimper that it just amused me, frankly. I probably would've ignored it completely if it didn't have a guy named "Bork" on it, or create a clone of another character with identical powers.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Characters List- #80-51 (Cyber, Manta)

Postby Horsenhero » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:48 pm

Ummm...I agree with a bunch of these choices, and disagree with a few. Some, like the Power Company happened in one of those periods where I was away from comics...so I have no opinion. Most comic writers go through inspired and uninspired periods. So except for ripping on Loeb and Lobdell, who I've never seen any inspiration from, I'm willing to give most creators a pass.

I agree completely with Mr. M on the use of the term "Tard". If you're going to play the political correctness game, you may as well dive in the whole way.

Update on Drax the Destroyer...he's dead again. At the end of the Thanos Imperative (great storyline), Thanos whacks him...the issue before Thanos, Nova and Starlord all may-or-may-not have met their ends in a collapsing universe. All that sets up Marvel's next shot at a big, cosmic team called the Annihilators. That team features Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Gladiator, Ronan the Accuser and Quasar, so all Marvel's top-heavy cosmic villains now will have an appropriate superteam to fight.

And no matter what I might disagree with you on...Cyber is on this list, so booyah! Carry on.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Characters List- #80-51 (Cyber, Manta)

Postby Invictus » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:56 pm

There are a few characters on your list that I would defend on some levels, but the reason for this post is to thank you. Because, you see, back in the late '80s the X-Men started to suck and it sure seemed like I was the only one noticing it. Then one day, Chris Claremont decided that if a building fell on them, instead of killing them it would somehow teleport them to Australia. I figured it couldn't get any worse than that, but then realized I kept thinking we'd hit bottom every month, and I was wrong. I knew I had to abandon this stuff immediately -- for me, the X-Men had to die when that building fell on them; I had to leave, and not look back, lest I become a pillar of salt. So why am I thanking you? Because you're showing how right I was! No regrets! After more than twenty years, the X-Men are dead to me, and sadly must stay that way.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Characters List- #80-51 (Cyber, Manta)

Postby Setothes » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:48 pm

Gotta admit, I liked the Power Company comic, but Witchfire, Manhunter and Striker Z were the only characters that interested me. Bork, named-after-a-gemstone-girl and Skyrocket (the ostensible point-of-view character and team leader!) felt a little tired / cliched to me.

So even as a fan, it was 50% fail. :)

The X-Men fell apart for me during the brood in space crap, where Storm died and got reborn in a space-whale zit. I was all, 'the what now?' and walked away. I came back in time for Jim Lee and the Acolytes. It was like hooking up with the psycho ex and remembering why you gnawed your arm off to get away in the first place.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Characters List- #80-51 (Cyber, Manta)

Postby Geekery » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:11 pm

M is the winner of one of the most dubious awards in all of comics: the most inane, bizarre, overly complex origin story in the history of the medium.

My theory has always been that they were trying to "outdo" the ever-changing backstory that DC has for Donna Troy .

Who's & Whose... oh jesus. I'm usually a grammar nazi {snip}, and I totally missed that. And on EVERY SINGLE SLOT.

I'm sure you just did it once, and copy-and-paste did the rest. It was actually giving me flashbacks to high school English, when I had an A+ paper knocked down to a B- because of ONE MISTAKE that I made--after every paragraph. That gives me +1 on my 'Angsty' category, I guess.

Yeah, I hated Hodge as a kid. And Horsenhero is right, his Suck Factor IS tremendous. I figured my hatred was in the"I want him to die via the heroes" kind of way, but no- in retrospect I don't even like READING about him.

What I couldn't stand about him was the way they kept tacking on the upgrades: he starts as an unlikable suit, then is revealed to be leader of The Right, then makes a demon deal to become immortal, then gets the crazy scorpion cyborg body, then joins with the Phalanx, then gets a SECOND techno-organic infection from Bastion--it never ends!

Finally, I should point out that I have an upcoming Marvel campaign, and one of the players will be reprising the Nextwave version of Machine Man. I'm interested to see how that turns out.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Worst Characters List- #80-51 (Cyber, Manta)

Postby catsi563 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:27 pm

My theory has always been that they were trying to "outdo" the ever-changing backstory that DC has for Donna Troy


Dont you mean Power Girl? :P
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

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