The Atomic Think Tank

by **Gazman** » Wed May 09, 2012 4:50 pm

And one time he ummm... drank of Horus' "water of life." So those priests of Horus must have been pretty successful with that smear campaign. Pretty sure Set was also the god of the desert. Though that probably counts as a foreboding place.

Set's animal, the Typhonic Beast is complicated. Here's a whole damn Wikipedia article about it. Basically some kind of wild dog type animal called sha in ancient times.

by **Jabroniville** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:08 pm

ASGARDIANS:

-Marvel's Asgardians were always a tricky thing, as the writers generally put "Storytelling" ahead of "Mythology 101" and just told whatever stories they felt like, using Norse Gods as Super-Hero types who kicked ass and did stuff in the Nine Realms. Thor went from "A human doctor with Thor's powers" to "actual Thor" at one point, and many an adventure were had, as Marvel's "Superman" figure and the guy most would point to as "The most powerful hero on Earth", a role he has only lost occasionally- The Silver Surfer is generally more powerful, as is The Sentry, and probably Green Scar Hulk. Other than that, it's all super-villains (Molecule Man & Graviton are NOTICEABLY mightier), Cosmic Bad Guys, and Gods (Seth, Pluto, Zeus, etc. are all beyond Thor).

The Asgardian Pantheon really by my view seems to be Odin, Balder, Heimdall (watching the gateway) & Thor, with Odin's Queen Frigga reduced to minor character status, most of the goddesses just plain un-utilized (save Sif), a bunch of new characters added (Enchantress & Executioner, The Warriors Three), etc. Loki is the root of all evil- if something bad is going on within Asgard, Loki is either directly responsible, or is aiding the person who IS responsible. This is used almost to the point of self-parody- they should just beat the snot out of Loki anytime something goes bad. In other realms, Ymir the King of the Frost Giants, and Surtur the Fire Demon Guy, are major Cosmic-level threats that even Thor couldn't beat alone.

Thor's greatest points as a character came under Lee/Kirby (where Kirby used a lot of his mythological bent and tendency towards elaborate costumes), and then under artist/writer Walt Simonson, who did an EPIC run on the book during the 1980s (the Jim Shooter Years at Marvel). I have three collections of his stuff, and it's all good- like most long runs, it has slow points, parts where nothing's really going on, and a bit of "THIS again?" but it really stands out compared to most people's long runs (it's better overall than Mark Gruenwald's Captain America run, for example). Thor is generally super-powerful, but noticeably weaker compared to his modern incarnation, as he struggles against almost any foe brought his way.

Simonson's run has a few major epic battles (The Surtur War/Demonic Invasion of New York; Thor vs. The Midgard Serpent), some rather funny moments (Loki is a virtual butt-monkey, being humiliated, seduced and beaten up on a frequent basis), and some sly dialogue that you don't often get in comics (when Odin is sending his wife away with some children, he makes peace with the angry kids- who want to help in the fighting- by telling them he needs them to guard Frigga- an "All-important job" and he wants his wife to think SHE'S guarding THEM. The kids understand their duty and gladly go forward). It's also got some great stuff with Thor as a Frog- spellcasted upon by Loki, Thor is first a regular giant Bullfrog, then actually regains his Thor powers in a Frog-Man state- fans and writers alike knock Shooter for being anti-creativity and not letting writer screw around, but the man OK'd THIS stuff just fine (not to mention putting Bill Sienkiewicz on "New Mutants"), so screw that.

-Ultimately, I was never a major "Thor" fan for a long time. I was never impressed by the vastness of his power as a kid (even then I kinda felt like less-powerful heroes had more dramatic fights with more opponents, and I realized that writing a super-powerful guy was easy- you just had to have him beat on people and show that he's the most-powerful- ANY writer could do that).

Power Levels: In general, Asgardians seem to be a bit less numerous, and weaker overall, than their Olympian cousins- there aren't a lot of guys to measure up to Apollo, Athena, Artemis, Pluto & Poseidon (who are ELITES), etc... Thor is tougher than Hercules in general, but he's far and away the best Norseman save Odin. However, the Norse VILLAINS tend to be at a higher level- Ymir and Surtur are FIERCE opponents, to say nothing of Jormungandr.

by **Jabroniville** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:11 pm

Talk about having a better costume design that he used to.

THOR, GOD OF THUNDER (Thor Odinson, Dr. Donald Blake)
Created By: Stan Lee, Larry Lieber & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #83 (Aug. 1962)
Role: God, Epic Hero, Supermanalogue (kinda), Power-Cap Definer, Flying Brick
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Asgardian Pantheon, The Thor Corps., The God Squad
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 14 (261)
STRENGTH 16 STAMINA 14 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+11)
Close Combat (Hammer) 1 (+10)
Expertise (Aesir) 8 (+10)
Expertise (History) 2 (+4)
Insight 6 (+9)
Intimidation 11 (+15)
Perception 3 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Hammer) 4 (+12)
Ranged Combat (Lightning) 4 (+12)
Treatment 7 (+9)

Advantages:
Attractive, Benefit (Status- God), Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hammer) 4, Improved Smash, Interpose, Last Stand, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 8, Startle, Takedown 2, Ultimate Effort (Strength), Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Immortal Aesir"
Power Lifting 5 (50,000 tons) [5]
Protection 1 (Extras: Impervious 13) [14]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Mjolnir" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Indestructible, Restricted 2- Those Worthy) [53]
"Weather Control" Environment 6 (1,000 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (12)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 14 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (56) -- (66)

-- (82 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Belt Unarmed +11 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Hammer Smash +10 (+18 Damage, DC 34)
Hammer Throw +12 (+17 Ranged Damage, DC 32)
Lightning Bolt +14 Area (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Lightning +12 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +15 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude +14 (+15 Belt), Will +13

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- If removed from Mjolnir for more than one minute, Thor will transform back into human form (if he has one). This sometimes vanishes as a limitation based on the era.
Responsibility (Honour)- Thor is not one to lie nor cheat.
Enemy (Loki, Ulik, Jormungandr, Hela)
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As two of the strongest beings alive, they naturally dislike each other and come to blows.
Rivalry (Hercules)- The Son of Zeus is Thor's greatest heroic rival, though they often see eye-to-eye as well. Hercules bristles against the greater fame of Herc.
Responsibility (Asgard, Odin)- Thor must do his father's bidding, or that of Odin's replacements. This can be bad, because Odin is a royal (literally) dick.

Total: Abilities: 100 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 28 / Powers: 87 / Defenses: 21 (261)

-Frickin' Thor. Basically created to be Marvel's answer to Superman (some historical reports have said as much, others play coy), but with a mythological, magical bent, Thor's been all over the place, but has consistently been well-portrayed. That's thanks to the loving hands of several creators- Jack Kirby considered this a favourite, and then there's Walt Simonson and the last creative teams in recent years as well- Thor draws as many A-list creative teams as Wonder Woman (but sells better). He's had more luck with them than nearly every other hero I can think of. And he's almost always linked to the Avengers (hell, his big villain brought the team together!). For some reason, though, I never much cared for him. I think it's just the excess of POWER he's got (I always liked the more mid-range heroes), and the often-vague descriptions of just what he could do. As a result, I'm not half as familiar with any Thor stuff as I am with other heroes who's books I never read. Plus, I always liked Greek stuff better, so I'm biased.

-Thor's ridiculous power feats are part of it as well- I can't really get into a guy who can literally do anything to win a fight. It's boring to read ("Oh hey, I can just use the Odinforce to kill my enemy. Too bad I didn't do that last time I had a struggle"), a cheap way out from writing yourself into a corner, and more. Anyone who can whip out Time Travel, the God Force, or about five different kinds of "Force" as a Limit-Break just bores me.
-Not to mention the "Thorbags"- the fans of Thor who populate various forums and care ONLY about "good showings" and Thor winning every damn fight like it's the only thing in the world that's important. I mean, what are we? Twelve? WHO CARES how powerful he's shown, or if he jobs to a new big villain or something (particularly if he gets the win back)? As long as the new characters aren't annoying Mary Sues (say, Red Hulk) who ONLY exist to beat everyone else, I don't see how it should matter.

-I thought long and hard (huh-huh, I said...) about where to place Thor on the PL scale- he's EXTREMELY strong and tough compared to most Marvel heroes, and he's not a bad fighter either. I like lower PLs in general, but THIS guy? Thor is a PL 14 in my book, and that's a pretty big shift- I used to put EVERYONE within a PL 12 boundary if I could help it. But even then I admitted that Thor was actually higher-level- I just wanted him to fit more playability-wise with his team. Now? It's 3rd edition so I don't have to care so much. And since Thing & She-Hulk types are +13 damage unarmed, it only makes sense that Thor is a few notches higher (+16 normally, and Mjolnir knocks him up even higher- there's no easy way to fit that into PL 12 without making him very inaccurate. Thor is quite a good fighter as well, but uses Accurate Attack to improve his attack bonus rather than have a big number, as +11 seems more than good enough. He's SUPPOSED to be a godlike, super-experienced fighter, but I have never IN MY ENTIRE LIFE seen him use elite fighting tactics beyond "hit and then hit harder". He probably COULD dodge and weave, but usually is just a straight-on fighter, and I'd put him at a level with good fighters, but not elites (guys like Spidey, Kingpin & Black Knight are more accurate in general).

-At PL 14, Thor is a ways above even Iron Man (2 PLs basically make it REALLY unlikely Iron Man would ever win in a fair fight, which is as it should be), and well above most Marvel villains. His Silver Age self was more PL 11-12, and so guys like Mister Hyde (PL 10) and The Wrecker (PL 11) were more dangerous enemies. Nowadays, Thor makes mincemeat out of most guys on that level. Mjolnir costs a pretty penny, for good reason. It's a powerful Strike, has Area Effects (a Burst for his "whirl it around me" trick, with a half-price +0.5 Extra, a Line, and, a ranged Blast (Lightning), a weather controller (outside the Blast Array, so he can do them simultaneously), AND it can throw him across dimensions. The Belt of Strength is an occasional Boost to Strength that renders him supremely tired once he takes it off, and goes unstatted since it's a rare deal. Thor's Hammer is basically a Dr. Strange-level plot device, and he can spend a Hero Point to travel through time (an ability he later "gave up"), use the God Force, etc., to beat the new Big Bad.

-Note Thor's defenses, which place him as a "mere" PL 12/12.5. That's deliberate, as most Super-Heavyweights lack defensive capability, usually just eating whatever attacks come their way. I can't possibly justify a Thor with more than +11 to Parry, and certainly +10 to Dodge is enough- he's never struck me as particularly light on his feet, and he's never seemed as durable as he is strong or damage-heavy. After all, it's virtually his stock in trade to pull out the Last Stand Advantage (ignore all accumulated damage for a turn) or eat something with Withstand Damage. Getting out of the way is for sissies, and Thor is a MAN'S MAN, dammit!

---

THOR, GOD OF THUNDER (Thor Odinson, Dr. Donald Blake)
Created By: Stan Lee, Larry Lieber & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #83 (Aug. 1962)
Role: God, Epic Hero, Supermanalogue (kinda), Power-Cap Definer, Flying Brick
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Asgardian Pantheon, The Thor Corps., The God Squad
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 13 (242)
STRENGTH 15 STAMINA 14 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+11)
Expertise (Aesir) 8 (+10)
Expertise (History) 2 (+4)
Insight 6 (+9)
Intimidation 10 (+14)
Perception 3 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Hammer) 4 (+10)
Ranged Combat (Lightning) 4 (+10)
Treatment 7 (+9)

Advantages:
Attractive, Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hammer) 2, Interpose, Last Stand, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle, Takedown 2, Ultimate Effort (Strength), Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Immortal Aesir"
Power Lifting 5 (50,000 tons) [5]
Impervious Toughness 11 [11]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Mjolnir" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Indestructible, Restricted 2- Those Worthy) [49]
"Weather Control" Environment 6 (1,000 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (12)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 13 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (51) -- (60)

-- (76 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Belt Unarmed +11 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Hammer Smash +9 (+17 Damage, DC 32)
Hammer Throw +10 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Lightning Bolt +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Lightning +10 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +13 (+14 Belt, +6 Impervious), Fortitude +13 (+14 Belt), Will +12

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- If removed from Mjolnir for more than one minute, Thor will transform back into human form (if he has one).
Responsibility (Honour)- Thor is not one to lie nor cheat.
Enemy (Loki, Ulik)
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As two of the strongest beings alive, they naturally dislike each other and come to blows.
Responsibility (Asgard, Odin)- Thor must do his father's bidding, or that of Odin's replacements. This can be bad, because Odin is a royal (literally) dick.

Total: Abilities: 98 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 22 / Powers: 76 / Defenses: 19 (242)

-Here's a weaker, PL 13 Thor, that fits a lot of '80s & '90s adventures before Thor got REALLY elite. It can also fit if you want him closer to the rest of the team. Y'know, I actually think I like this version more, as he's not quite as excessively powerful, but he doesn't really match modern Thor as much. Even in this "lesser" form, Thor is a bit beyond Iron Man, and a league ahead of Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, The Thing or other PL 11 superstars. I think this kinda fits the Walt Simonson classic Thor run of the '80s quite well, since Thor was elite, but was still regularly challenged by people.

by **cbwjm** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:13 pm

Gazman wrote:And one time he ummm... drank of Horus' "water of life." So those priests of Horus must have been pretty successful with that smear campaign. Pretty sure Set was also the god of the desert. Though that probably counts as a foreboding place.

Set's animal, the Typhonic Beast is complicated. Here's a whole damn Wikipedia article about it. Basically some kind of wild dog type animal called sha in ancient times.

You are correct about the desert being a forboding place. Seth (Sutekh might be more correct as the h on the end of his name is a 'kh' sound) was the god of chaos, i.e. everything outside of Egypt. Fun Fact: Seth was also some form of storm god although I can't recall the reference. No one is really sure what his animal was and I believe the current view is that it wasn't anything, more a chaotic mish mash of parts.

He may have been god of chaos but he still had his duties in the afterlife which has been mentioned, he was the guardian of Ra guarding the Sun Barge during it's trip through the afterlife.

I think the "drank horus' waters of life bit" would have been from the New Kingdom tale of Horus and Seth, a fun fairy tale. They had some good stories back then, borrowed some of them from ancient Syria/Palestine.

Many of the gods had a role in the afterlife, Thoth weighed the heart of the deceased and if they were found wanting they were consumed by the horrible crocodile chimeric creature whose name escapes me at the moment. Osiris sat as judge over this and possibly all the deceased did as well since kings were known as Osiris death just as they are known as Horus in life.

I'm going to stop now, I don't want to fill this thread up with Egyptian stuff. It's just that I studied this at Uni so I enjoy talking about it.

by **Jabroniville** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:22 pm

THOR, GOD OF THUNDER II (Eric Masterson)
Created By: Tom DeFalco & Ron Frenz
First Appearance: Thor #391 (May 1988)
Role: Replacement Hero, Flying Brick
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Asgardian Pantheon
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 13 (220)
STRENGTH 16 STAMINA 14 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Close Combat (Hammer) 1 (+7)
Expertise (Aesir) 3 (+4)
Expertise (Architect) 6 (+7)
Insight 2 (+3)
Intimidation 7 (+9)
Perception 2 (+3)
Ranged Combat (Hammer) 3 (+9)
Ranged Combat (Lightning) 4 (+10)

Advantages:
Attractive, Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hammer), Interpose, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Takedown, Ultimate Effort (Strength), Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Given the Powers of the Immortal Aesir"
Power Lifting 5 (100,000 tons) [5]
Protection 1 (Extras: Impervious 13) [14]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 15 (Aging, Life Support- Radiation, Fatigue Effects) [15]

"Mjolnir" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Indestructible, Restricted 2- Those Worthy) [50]
"Weather Control" Environment 6 (1,000 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (12)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 13 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (52) -- (62)
AE: "Lightning" Blast 14 (Feats: Improved Critical 2, Indirect- From Above, Penetrating 6) (37)
AE: "Hammer Smash" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (8)
AE: "Hammer Throw" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Ranged 17) (24)
AE: "Hammer Spin" Strength-Damage +2 (Extras: Area- 15ft. Burst +18/+1/2) (29)
AE: "Obscure Visuals" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (Extars: Attack, Area- 30ft. Burst) (8)
AE: "Air Control" Move Object 16 (Flaws: Concentration) (16)
AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 13 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (17)
AE: Movement 3 (Dimensional Movement 3) (Extras: Portal +2) (12)
AE: Deflect 12 (12)
AE: Flight 11 (8,000 mph) (22)
-- (78 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+16 Damage, DC 30)
Hammer Smash +7 (+18 Damage, DC 34)
Hammer Throw +9 (+17 Ranged Damage, DC 32)
Lightning Bolt +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Lightning +10 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +15 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude +14, Will +10

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- If removed from Mjolnir for more than one minute, Eric will transform back into human form.
Enemy (Loki, Bloodaxe)
Responsibility (Replacement Hero)- Eric feels like he's much less than the original Thor, and wants to live up to that legacy.
Relationship (Son)

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 83 / Defenses: 17 (220)

-Eric Masterson never really seemed to get a major chance. He spent a couple years as the "replacement Thor" (being the last of the Avengers' Big Three to get replaced with other guys), putting an 'everyman' perspective into the book- sharing this trait with Spider-Man, DeFalco-friend Mark Gruenwald's Quasar, etc. Masterson was an architect that died saving Thor from a villain, and so the two came to "share" Thor's powers (thus resurrecting Eric), until Loki's machinations caused the real Thor to be banished, and Masterson keeping the role. This sort of thing happened a lot in this era of Marvel, as Jim Shooter was a big fan of temporary "Shake Things Up" storylines that left heroes in new identities or costumes for some hype.

-Oddly, THIS is the Thor I was most familiar with for most of my childhood- HE was Thor when I first got into comics, and thus I always viewed Thor as a masked, bearded guy who was kind of normal underneath all his vast power. Of course, Thor eventually got the role back, but Eric got his OWN name and set of powers from Odin. This led to a "Thunderstrike" solo series, which was cancelled as soon as the Dark Age of Comics resulted in mass loss of money (though I've read the first "Thunderstrike" issues and found them pretty bad all-around- Sif even wears one of those ridiculous '90s Stripper Suits), and Eric was killed off, committing suicide to protect his friends from his own possession at the hands of an Asgardian super-weapon. Too bad for him, but I guess you really can't have TWO guys kicking around at Thor's power level without getting crazy. He's easily had the worst luck of the Big Three Avengers replacements, but not nearly as bad as some OTHER heroes' replacements (poor, poor Ben Reilly). Honestly though, if you put a gun to my head and made me pick, I'd choose Eric over the Odinson any day.

-Masterson's version of Thor is also highly powerful, but is PL 12.5 across the board except defensively (PL 11.5) and with his Lightning (PL 12). He's just not as good a fighter as the Odinson by virtue of inexperience, but still has all the Hammer's tricks, the Asgardian Immunities, and more. He loses almost all of his Combat Advantages and Skills, though, essentially being a normal guy underneath everything. Altogether, he's barely a better fighter than most Powerhouse-type PL 10s- he's just packing more strength. A LOT more strength, though- this guy holds a win over GLADIATOR. It was in the otherwise-iffy "Operation: Galactic Storm", and it took everything he had (he was explicitly called-out as being inexperienced and clumsy, probably even lower level than he is right here), but he did it. I'm not normally an "OOOH SO POWERFUL!!" type of comic book fan, but that was an EPIC brawl, complete with Gladiator pwning him to start, then Thor getting a bit lucky (using Living Lightning, who was just innocently passing-by, as a weapon), then NAILING him with a Hammer-Uppercut while Kallark staggered. The subsequent pummeling had to be stopped by his fellow Avengers, lest the rookie Eric KILL the Praetor of the Imperial Guard on the spot. Not bad for a newbie.

THUNDERSTRIKE (Eric Masterson)
Created By: Tom DeFalco & Ron Frenz
First Appearance: Thor #391 (May 1988)
Role: Replacement Hero, Flying Brick
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Asgardian Pantheon
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 12 (190)
STRENGTH 13 STAMINA 13 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)
Close Combat (Hammer) 1 (+8)
Expertise (Aesir) 3 (+4)
Expertise (Architect) 6 (+7)
Insight 2 (+3)
Intimidation 6 (+8)
Perception 2 (+3)
Ranged Combat (Hammer) 4 (+10)
Ranged Combat (Lightning) 4 (+10)

Advantages:
Attractive, Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hammer), Interpose, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Takedown, Ultimate Effort (Strength), Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Given the Powers of the Immortal Aesir"
Power Lifting 3 (6,000 tons) [3]
Impervious Toughness 6 [6]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Thunderstrike" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Indestructible, Restricted 2- Those Worthy) [37]
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 11 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (44) -- (54)

-- (56 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Hammer Smash +8 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Hammer Throw +10 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Lightning Bolt +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Lightning +10 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +13 (+3 Impervious), Fortitude +14, Will +10

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- If removed from Mjolnir for more than one minute, Eric will transform back into human form.
Enemy (Loki, Bloodaxe)
Responsibility (Replacement Hero)- Eric feels like he's much less than the original Thor, and wants to live up to that legacy.
Relationship (Son)

Total: Abilities: 78 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 61 / Defenses: 19 (190)

-Thunderstrike is basically what Thor is, minus a ton of powers. His strength cap's lower, his Hammer does less damage overall (but it does Ricochet like Cap's Shield), and he's generally just less powerful overall. Still, a "less powerful" version of Thor is still a PL 12 super-heavyweight who can take out someone like War Machine, and runs almost even with Iron Man, so he's no pushover. He's gained a bit of experience and fighting skill since his "Thor" days, so he's not totally weaker.

by **Jabroniville** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:25 pm

cbwjm wrote:I'm going to stop now, I don't want to fill this thread up with Egyptian stuff. It's just that I studied this at Uni so I enjoy talking about it.

Pssh, fill away- I turned half the Greek things into essay topics talking about all their myths. As anyone can plainly see, I am not averse to large blocks of text.

by **Mike5000us** » Wed May 09, 2012 11:27 pm

Excellent work so far...truly amazing!!!

However, the Norse VILLAINS tend to be at a higher level- Ymir and Surtur are FIERCE opponents, to say nothing of Jormungandr.

So does then mean you plan to stat them up? HOPEFULLY YES

cbwjm wrote:
Gazman wrote:And one time he ummm... drank of Horus' "water of life." So those priests of Horus must have been pretty successful with that smear campaign. Pretty sure Set was also the god of the desert. Though that probably counts as a foreboding place.

Set's animal, the Typhonic Beast is complicated. Here's a whole damn Wikipedia article about it. Basically some kind of wild dog type animal called sha in ancient times.

You are correct about the desert being a forboding place. Seth (Sutekh might be more correct as the h on the end of his name is a 'kh' sound) was the god of chaos, i.e. everything outside of Egypt. Fun Fact: Seth was also some form of storm god although I can't recall the reference. No one is really sure what his animal was and I believe the current view is that it wasn't anything, more a chaotic mish mash of parts.

He may have been god of chaos but he still had his duties in the afterlife which has been mentioned, he was the guardian of Ra guarding the Sun Barge during it's trip through the afterlife.

I think the "drank horus' waters of life bit" would have been from the New Kingdom tale of Horus and Seth, a fun fairy tale. They had some good stories back then, borrowed some of them from ancient Syria/Palestine.

Many of the gods had a role in the afterlife, Thoth weighed the heart of the deceased and if they were found wanting they were consumed by the horrible crocodile chimeric creature whose name escapes me at the moment. Osiris sat as judge over this and possibly all the deceased did as well since kings were known as Osiris death just as they are known as Horus in life.

I'm going to stop now, I don't want to fill this thread up with Egyptian stuff. It's just that I studied this at Uni so I enjoy talking about it.

I always thought that the reason that they named him "Seth" in Marvel was because they already used the name "Set" for one of their Elder Gods. So Jab for the other Egyptian Gods (Isis, Osiris, etc) is your basic template suitable?

by **Jabroniville** » Thu May 10, 2012 2:15 am

Mike5000us wrote:I always thought that the reason that they named him "Seth" in Marvel was because they already used the name "Set" for one of their Elder Gods. So Jab for the other Egyptian Gods (Isis, Osiris, etc) is your basic template suitable?

Oh yeah, I remember the other Serpent God Set. No idea why there's another one.

Yeah, the Template suits most Gods pretty well- Osiris seems to be more Skyfather-y, along with Ra- I figure most of those guys for PL 15-16 Magic Users (sort of like a lowered-down Zeus), but neither appears much in Marvel Comics- it's usually the Seth & Horus show whenever the Heliopolitans do stuff.

For the Asgardians I plan on building, I've got:
The Thors
Beta-Ray Bill
Thor Girl
Sif
The Warriors Three
Odin
Heimdall
Balder
Utgart-Loki
Loki
Ymir
Surtur
Jormungandr
Garm
Fenrir
Karnilla
Hela
The Destroyer
Malekith (I'll see what info there is on him- I'm mostly unfamiliar with him aside from a cartoon appearance)

Plus Other Gods:
Gaea
The Demogorge
Manitou (figured I'd toss in one of the few other Skyfathers who gets some play)

by **SilvercatMoonpaw** » Thu May 10, 2012 8:30 am

cbwjm wrote:...Thoth weighed the heart of the deceased and if they were found wanting they were consumed by the horrible crocodile chimeric creature whose name escapes me at the moment.

Amut.

As for super-powerful Thor:
They should have stuck to the myths where he used a belt to get super-strong and had to catch Mjollnir in an iron mitt because it got so hot.

by **Mike5000us** » Thu May 10, 2012 9:37 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Mike5000us wrote:I always thought that the reason that they named him "Seth" in Marvel was because they already used the name "Set" for one of their Elder Gods. So Jab for the other Egyptian Gods (Isis, Osiris, etc) is your basic template suitable?

Oh yeah, I remember the other Serpent God Set. No idea why there's another one.

Yeah, the Template suits most Gods pretty well- Osiris seems to be more Skyfather-y, along with Ra- I figure most of those guys for PL 15-16 Magic Users (sort of like a lowered-down Zeus), but neither appears much in Marvel Comics- it's usually the Seth & Horus show whenever the Heliopolitans do stuff.

For the Asgardians I plan on building, I've got:
The Thors
Beta-Ray Bill
Thor Girl
Sif
The Warriors Three
Odin
Heimdall
Balder
Utgart-Loki
Loki
Ymir
Surtur
Jormungandr
Garm
Fenrir
Karnilla
Hela
The Destroyer
Malekith (I'll see what info there is on him- I'm mostly unfamiliar with him aside from a cartoon appearance)

Plus Other Gods:
Gaea
The Demogorge
Manitou (figured I'd toss in one of the few other Skyfathers who gets some play)

Nice list! I can't wait to see the characters. Maybe you can create a basic Skyfather template? There are like 20 (including Zeus, Odin, Manitou of course) of them after all I doubt you will stat them all.

by **cbwjm** » Thu May 10, 2012 1:28 pm

I often wonder if the Elder God Set was from the Conan comics. After all, Marvel was producing Conan comics fairly early on (1970 according to Wikipedia) so the Elder god may have had his introduction from Conan or it might just be a happy coincidence and they matched up when they started the Conana run. Of course nothing to say that an early writer wasn't a fan of Robert E. Howard and decided to put the Serpent god into Marvel comics.

Go back far enough in Marvel continuity and you end up adventuring alongside Conan, meeting Crom, and fighting ancient sorcerers while trying to get your memory and godly power back.

by **FuzzyBoots** » Thu May 10, 2012 7:40 pm

Of course, Robert E. Howard was also a contemporary of Lovecraft, and they traded a bit of mythos (as did Fritz Leiber of the "Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser" books), so the line blurs a little. Heck, once you get to Elder Gods, trying to pin anything to Lovecraft is tricky because Lovecraft gave free reign to other authors to play in his sandbox and he kept what he liked.

by **Jabroniville** » Thu May 10, 2012 10:39 pm

Apparently, Marvel's Elder God Set was introduced by Roy Thomas scarcely a while before his "Conan" run, and if anyone was a huge fan of Robert E. Howard, it was Roy Thomas. Ergo, it's pretty simple a case of "well I'm gonna use the character, but OH LOOK I used him in a pre-Conan book using "public domain" status, so Marvel owns the rights to the guy (which is why they can use Set but not Conan, I would imagine).

by **Jabroniville** » Thu May 10, 2012 10:40 pm

THOR GIRL (Tarene)
Created By: Dan Jurgens & John Romita Jr.
First Appearance: Thor #22 (Aug. 2000)
Role: Flying Brick, Distaff Counterpart of Thor
Group Affiliations: The Initiative (The Cavalry)
PL 10 (181)
STRENGTH 10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Persuasion 3 (+4, +6 Attractive)
Intimidation 6 (+7)
Expertise (Magic) 5 (+5)
Perception 2 (+3)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Attractive, Improved Critical 2 (Hammer, Blast), Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 8, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Alien-Turned-Asgardian Goddess"
Impervious Toughness 5 [5]
Regeneration 4 (Feats: Regrowth) [5]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Golden Hammer" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [37]
"Weather Control" Environment 4 (250 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (8)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 10 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (40) -- (49)

-- (61 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Hammer Smash +8 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Hammer Throw +8 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Lightning Bolt +10 Area (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Lightning +8 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +10 (+3 Impervious), Fortitude +11, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Thor & Asgard)

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 59 / Defenses: 12 (181)

-Thor Girl is an odd little product of the early-2000s "Thor" run, and a continuation of the comic book trend that each and every major male hero will have, during the course of a title, both a replacement who is black and/or more extreme, AND a female version wearing a similar outfit. This was specialized by DC Comics, but by the 1980s with Jim Shooter (himself trained at DC, but worshipping Marvel), nearly every Marvel hero got his own replacements as well. Thor did have Eric Masterson (who wasn't really more "EXTREEEEEME!" but kinda looked it, especially during the "Thunderstrike" phase with the notorious leather jacket so ubiquitous amongst Avengers in that era), but had avoided the "female version" until then. She's an alien who got ascended to Asgardian godhood or something, did some stuff, got de-powered from Odin-levels and ended up on the "Initiative" once it became clear the current Thor writers weren't using her.

-For someone who you'd think would be extremely powerful, she didn't do a whole lot, even in "The Initiative", where she spent most of her time. She basically suffered from the Worf Effect- somebody who was clearly big and tough (the name value alone made her a powerhouse), so the writers would use her to make the current major threat seem more powerful, by BEATING THE HELL OUT OF HER. She easily had the least characterization and plot importance of the main cast, aside from getting her ass kicked and pining over Trauma (who had replicated Thor's appearance and powers twice). She was replaced by a Skrull at some point, but her characterization never changed.

-Thor Girl's kind of tough to put into a proper Power Level. She's supposed to be quite tough, but is really just a jobber to major villains, and not even that much more powerful than her allies (in pro wrestling terms, she's a Jobber To The Stars). I think she fits PL 10 about perfectly- it's much more powerful than the basic Initiative recruit, and she's enough to maybe bruise Thor or give him pause (especially with Power Attack), but she's not overwhelmingly powerful. Ragnarok (PL 11-12) and K.I.A. (PL 13) both WRECKED her with absolute ease, The Hulk's Warbound (PL 11) were clearly way too much for her as well, and the Super-Skrull variant with her powers was held off fairly adequately by Ultra-Girl, so I think this is all the power she needs. She's basically a Mini-Thor in many respects, containing many similar powers, the toughness and all that, but is basically at a lower level in general, and isn't an elite fighter just yet.

by **Jabroniville** » Thu May 10, 2012 10:44 pm

KARNILLA, THE NORN QUEEN
Created By: Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #107 (Aug. 1964)
Role: Magic User, Dating the Villainess (for Balder)
Group Affiliations: Nornheim
PL 13 (223)
STRENGTH 10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Deception 9 (+13)
Expertise (Magic) 14 (+18)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 2 (+6)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 6 (+10)
Ranged Combat (Magic) 2 (+12)

Advantages:
Artificer, Beginner's Luck, Benefit 3 (Queen of Nornheim), Improved Critical (Magic) 2, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 7, Ritualist, Trance

Powers:
"Alien-Turned-Asgardian Goddess"
Regeneration 4 (Feats: Regrowth) [5]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]
Senses 4 (Detect Magic- Acute, Analytical & Ranged) [4]

"Magical Might"
Morph 3 (Humanoids) (Extras: Metamorph) [18]

"Scrying Pool" Remote Sensing 10 (Visuals & Hearing) (Feats: Dynamic, Dimensional) (32) -- [47]

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Mystic Bolt +12 (+14 Ranged Damge, DC 29)
Mystic Wave +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Induce Afflictions +12 (+14 Ranged Affliction, DC 24)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +10 (+14 Mystic Shields), Fortitude +11, Will +9

Complications:
Responsibility (Queen of Nornheim)
Relationship (Balder the Brave)- Karnilla loves the Immortal hero, but their duties keep them apart.

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 85 / Defenses: 17 (223)

-Karnilla the Norn Queen (Nornheim is like another country, distinct from regular Asgard) is an odd fit in "Thor", being that she almost seems like a Femme Fatale, but not for the key hero- she loves Thor's pal Balder the Brave, and otherwise just schemed against Asgard like Loki would, often teaming up with the God of Mischief or being betrayed by him. And no, she isn't based off of anyone from Norse Mythology.

-Karnilla is a high-powered Sorceress on Doctor Strange's level (though noticeably tougher even without the Force Field), having trained The Enchantress in her own gifts (Amora's bios explicitly state that she's below Karnilla in power as well). Like most mystically-powered Super-Villains, she could easily be given the whole "Doctor Strange" Power Array and have it make sense- I'm just going off of one of those Marvel Handbooks I picked up at "Calgary Comic Expo".

The Atomic Think Tank

Jab's Builds: He-Man, Battle Cat, Mekaneck, Buzz-Off

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Re: Jab's Builds: Zeus, Cuchulain, Skrulls, Horus, Bastet, Seth

Re: Jab's Builds: Zeus, Cuchulain, Skrulls, Horus, Bastet, Seth

Re: Jab's Builds: Zeus, Cuchulain, Skrulls, Horus, Bastet, Seth

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Re: Jab's Builds: Zeus, Cuchulain, Skrulls, Horus, Bastet, Seth

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Re: Jab's Builds: Zeus, Cuchulain, Skrulls, Horus, Bastet, Seth

Re: Jab's Builds: Horus, Bastet, Seth, Asgard- Thor & Thor/Eric

Re: Jab's Builds: Horus, Bastet, Seth, Asgard- Thor & Thor/Eric

Re: Jab's Builds: Horus, Bastet, Seth, Asgard- Thor & Thor/Eric

Re: Jab's Builds: Horus, Bastet, Seth, Asgard- Thor & Thor/Eric

Re: Jab's Builds: Horus, Bastet, Seth, Asgard- Thor & Thor/Eric

Re: Jab's Builds: Horus, Bastet, Seth, Asgard- Thor & Thor/Eric

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