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Re: The JM: Superman, Thor, Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel

Post by catsi563 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:00 pm

T'Challa, Namor and Aquaman would probably rebuff him right off the bat. But Adam...he'd listen at the very least.
Actually given their status as rulers they almost certainly would listen to him, though your right in that they would rebuff any calls for alliance. Non-Agression treaties might be possible though trade agreements would be difficult.

Tchalla would not agree to any trade pacts without guarantees of liberty and freedom and human rights improvments. Namor and Arthur are very proud and Atlantean general politics and attitude would most likely be a you stay on land Doom and we wont come out of the water.

Adam would listen definately and might even accept a non-agression pact or even a mutual defence pact that didnt require either side to intervene. Adams nearly as arrogant as Doom in his own way with out constantly referring to himself in the third person.

Heck Adam would probably be one of the few who could tear doom a new bung hole. But Dooms smart enough to keep Adam out fo his hair by simply guaranteeing Kandaqs soverienty and safety.
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

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Re: The JM: Superman, Thor, Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel

Post by Thorpacolypse » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:51 am

Very good thoughts, Catsi. I was also going to try and work in something where Doom had declared war on Amestris and Libria since I plan on integrating the Full Metal Alchemist setting in my universe as well as John Preston because he's da man, but I'm going to have think harder about that. I need to do a simple playtest first, I think, before I start his plan for world domination! :D

And poop, I see miscalculations in Adam and Billy already. Why are those always easier to spot when you post them as opposed to when you stare at them for several minutes (or hours, depending on the complexity of the build, I guess) when you're building?!?!? Clean ups coming later...
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Re: The JM: Superman, Thor, Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel

Post by Foreshadow » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:07 am

More Powerful Than a Locomotive: Couldn't 14 Strength achieve this? Or is 18 Strength needed?

Faster Than a Speeding Bullet: Array (26 pt array, 27 pts. Doesn't a bullet go 840 mph or something like that, Couldn't Flight 7 achieve this?

Able to Leap Tall Buildings: Mmmm Leaping 10?

I think that Superman is clearly imagined as both the ideal man (since most humans with those abilities would NOT have the character and attitude of superman) and he is envisioned as some density-based hero. In other words, his molecular structure is stronger and thus he is like a flying center of mass that is 'super' strong beyond any normal sense of the word.

What that means is Superman is stronger than the Hulk. The Hulk might be 'strongest one there is' but is the strongest in a universe where the creators clearly did not want a Superman type running around (at least not till the Sentry).

Giving Hulk Strength 17 (same as Steve) sounds good to me, having Thor's hammer roughly do what Superman's punches do also makes sense and I like that Thor has like a 15 strength. I don't think Thor should have an 18 Toughness though. He should have like a 15. Do I need to state why? For starters in old Classical Marvel terms he was assigned Amazing protection and yet a character like Superman clearly has Unearthly protection. so that he clearly has a greater amount so making them equal isn't a good design method. Now, you made Superman a +18. Why is that? Probably because steve gave him 19 strength and 18 toughness and you simply reduced the strength to 18 and made them even.

If your going to redesign and make them follow a more 2e pattern, which I like by the way. I like that Thor has 15 strength, there is nothing that says that Superman can't have a 20, 21, or 22 Toughness, as clearly he is 'super-tough' and in fact True Invulnerability is added to many games to accommodate superman. In 2e steve gave Centurion 20 for toughness and strength. The reason I think he gave him 19 is the fact you can use extra effort and achieve a 20, but why can't superman have like a 20 Toughness and an 18 Impervious. The reason that is more appropriate is that most opponent capable of fighting superman can achieve 18+ damage and thus the impervious is for the Captain Boomrang types of the world. Oh know Bullseye you got a bullseye on Superman? So what your paperclip still doesn't harm him.

Which is why I will play in 3e with Impervious that works like 2e Impervious, and the stats of Superman much like you designed or like you see in the official but Superman would have a high impervious. I also, at least in my builds, will keep a character like Darkseid with Omega Beams at like 24 damage or maybe 25. In otherwords clearly a lot and more than 20. They are suppose to be scary.

Yet, Thor's hammer I can see it doing like 18, 19, or 20 damage, maybe a bit more like 21 or 22. It should be enough to knock the complete F out of Superman and achieve a true knockback effect just like you see in the comics. His hammer is capable of knocking down gods and god-like beings so it should be a lot, and clearly, if any weapon justifies a +20 or greater damage it is his hammer.

I like how you put Hulk at 14 strength (at rest) and he grows to 17. True you could have set it differently, and gone with a greater range like 14 to 20 or 14 to 18 or 19. In the end, it is basically designer choice.

But if you go to the old MEGS site and it has a crap load of characters I think Superman has like a 23 strength, and Steve gave him a 19 + 4 power lifting, and 19 + 4 = 23, imagine that. Coincidence? Maybe but I doubt it. What does the Hulk list at? Spider-Man. Remember someone put a lot of thought into making those MEGS characters perhaps you can mine some gold from it. Of course, converting isn't exact but patterns can be extracted if you want to use that a possible reference guide.

As far as a character like Thing goes he probably should be like 13 or 14 strength. I'd go with 14, the same as Hulk's rest state.

In the end, I'm like you. I am going to take characters I want to use and design my own design patterns. Thus I don't really need the official write ups more than reference material which means I might only get them as pdf, and I don't actually want the vast majority of DC or Marvel characters. I do like ones like Blue Beetle though and am curious how he will be done.

Lastly, I didn't agree with Batman's batarang as +2 damage. I see his little bat shurikens as +1 damage so if I were to design Batman he'd have +1 Batarang damage, and if he had 4 strength he'd do 5 damage but would have power attack, and 10 damage with a stink'n little piece of metal is a lot and I think more than enough.

Actually I think it doing 5 damage with Penetrating 5 is a better model, but then the game doesn't state that Power Attack allows you to add Penetrating to an attack, but hey maybe it should. It simply means you'll connect and do that less damage, in this case 5. But I suppose that devalues a character like Batman and doesn't do what people want him to do, as like Superman, they envision Batman as capable of taking down most opponents. I don't see that. I see him as having the talent and resources to make special weapons or figure out the weaknesses of villains. I saw him fight a villain of the Blue Beetle whom his little batarangs didn't do much against and in the end it was when the villain beat Blue Beetle and took his armor and that Blue Beetle beat the villain with a special sonic vulnerability, and Batman, if memory serves was mostly out of the fight. Sure in a story written with only Batman it might be different but most Batman villains aren't designed with Doomsday level power. I see Solomn Grundy who I think is a Batman villain primarily is designed more like a Superman villain. If a big undead massively strong guy came at Batman and he threw a little piece of shuriken like metal at him. I don't see it as having all that much effect. I suppose because I'd give Solomn Grundy something like Immunity to Edged attacks or at least a partial immunity. Gun fire and things like that would not harm him much but fire would and that is what Batman might use to beat him. To me that is how Batman fights, looking for what does work and thus I'd want to give him like a dedicate hero point where he can find the solution so to speak.

Keep up the good write ups.

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Re: The JM: Superman, Thor, Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel

Post by Jabroniville » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:23 pm

Personally Foreshadow, I don't think that anybody really needs +18 and higher damage ratings for attacks. Lower ranks are easily enough to handle just about everybody, and keep in mind that EVERYONE can now Power Attack for +2 damage, and most Super-Bricks can and will have the actual full Power Attack or the option for Extra Effort, which would easily allow them to make +20 damage and higher at-will, just by spending an HP or lowering some Accuracy.

I think that's the perfect solution, and it's part of why I like this game. Not everyone has to be scaled up to the 9s to be as "tough as they are in the comics", because different Advantages and playing your HPs intelligently can EASILY allow you to scale-up your guys to match the ultimate Jeph Loeb versions of your favourite comic book characters. I like keeping everyone at a "soft cap" a few notches under 20 (Thorp has a good set-up with the +17-18 range on his Super-Bricks), because it's not like that handcuffs guys to those levels.

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Re: The JM: Superman, Thor, Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel

Post by Thorpacolypse » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:59 pm

Thanks for shopping here at The JM, Foreshadow. Lots to reflect on here and some really good thoughts.
Foreshadow wrote:More Powerful Than a Locomotive: Couldn't 14 Strength achieve this? Or is 18 Strength needed?

Faster Than a Speeding Bullet: Array (26 pt array, 27 pts. Doesn't a bullet go 840 mph or something like that, Couldn't Flight 7 achieve this?

Able to Leap Tall Buildings: Mmmm Leaping 10?

I think that Superman is clearly imagined as both the ideal man (since most humans with those abilities would NOT have the character and attitude of superman) and he is envisioned as some density-based hero. In other words, his molecular structure is stronger and thus he is like a flying center of mass that is 'super' strong beyond any normal sense of the word.

What that means is Superman is stronger than the Hulk. The Hulk might be 'strongest one there is' but is the strongest in a universe where the creators clearly did not want a Superman type running around (at least not till the Sentry).
In comparison of the Marvel vs. DC main continuity, Superman, Mon-El, Black Adam, Captain Marvel and most adult Kandorians/Kryptonians would be stronger than the Hulk, I would think. Outside of a few instances, where the Hulk was holding up a mountain, Marvel has generally kept their power levels a couple of notches below DCs. In the 70's and 80's, it wasn't even close, but over time, and with the influx of writers that work for both companies, it seems like they have gotten fairly close over the past 10 years or so, with the DC super powerhouses still being stronger, but not by nearly as much.

However, since this is my little pocket Thorpacoverse, my Hulk can lift more than Superman or Black Adam 'cause that's how I wanted it. I didn't want him to be a liar when he shouts HULK IS STRONGEST THERE IS! :wink:

Doomsday, however, might make him a liar... :twisted:
Foreshadow wrote:Giving Hulk Strength 17 (same as Steve) sounds good to me, having Thor's hammer roughly do what Superman's punches do also makes sense and I like that Thor has like a 15 strength. I don't think Thor should have an 18 Toughness though. He should have like a 15. Do I need to state why?

Which is why I will play in 3e with Impervious that works like 2e Impervious, and the stats of Superman much like you designed or like you see in the official but Superman would have a high impervious. I also, at least in my builds, will keep a character like Darkseid with Omega Beams at like 24 damage or maybe 25. In otherwords clearly a lot and more than 20. They are suppose to be scary.
I agree about the Omega Effect. I was going to rework him with about a 22 or 23 rank damage with that. I was going to have Black Bolt's voice just sliiiiiightly exceeding that when he shouts. Again, this is just how I wanted it, not canon comparison. The Omega Effect should probably be more powerful.

Foreshadow wrote:In the end, I'm like you. I am going to take characters I want to use and design my own design patterns. Thus I don't really need the official write ups more than reference material which means I might only get them as pdf, and I don't actually want the vast majority of DC or Marvel characters. I do like ones like Blue Beetle though and am curious how he will be done.

Lastly, I didn't agree with Batman's batarang as +2 damage. I see his little bat shurikens as +1 damage so if I were to design Batman he'd have +1 Batarang damage, and if he had 4 strength he'd do 5 damage but would have power attack, and 10 damage with a stink'n little piece of metal is a lot and I think more than enough.

Keep up the good write ups.
I just have a thing about doing my own stuff. I like having those core builds as a guide, but I might not even pick up H&V and if I do, it will only be on PDF. I did really like the core builds, but I'm going to do what I do because I love doing it. They might come in handy for that Mister Mind build that I get to lazy to work up, though. :D

I don't personally have an issue with Batman's Batarang. If it's strength based damage, that puts it +6 damage, more than a rifle in game terms. That's pretty effective in a street level game but not overpowering unless you are using full power attack. But is it going to slow Darkseid or even Metallo? Nope. That's where your description of how the Bat works in a JLA setting is so right on. He's going to find their weakness, come up with the plan that sets up Clark or Diana for the big shot or get Zatanna or Ollie the opening they need to use their specialty to the max advantage.
Jabroniville wrote:Personally Foreshadow, I don't think that anybody really needs +18 and higher damage ratings for attacks. Lower ranks are easily enough to handle just about everybody, and keep in mind that EVERYONE can now Power Attack for +2 damage, and most Super-Bricks can and will have the actual full Power Attack or the option for Extra Effort, which would easily allow them to make +20 damage and higher at-will, just by spending an HP or lowering some Accuracy.

I think that's the perfect solution, and it's part of why I like this game. Not everyone has to be scaled up to the 9s to be as "tough as they are in the comics", because different Advantages and playing your HPs intelligently can EASILY allow you to scale-up your guys to match the ultimate Jeph Loeb versions of your favourite comic book characters. I like keeping everyone at a "soft cap" a few notches under 20 (Thorp has a good set-up with the +17-18 range on his Super-Bricks), because it's not like that handcuffs guys to those levels.
This is what I love about 2E and 3E. You can't build characters wrong. When I ended J-Mart II, I had taken Superman and Thor down to PL13 and had their damage at +16. Then re-looking at 3E, I felt those two, being the top dogs among the DC and Marvel heroes in terms of power should be a bit higher. But I don't see me going above that +18 for anyone I am likely to really run. Oh, sure, as I mentioned, villains or NPCs could go higher, like Darkseid, Doomsday, or Galactus, but that's expected. They are supposed to be JLA/Avenger or whole universe type threats. But with Thor and Supes being at +18 damage, and with a full Power Attack, you're looking at +23, that's more than enough to deal with any solo threats I was planning to build, and makes them team level threats themselves, should they be mind controlled/cloned/misunderstood, etc.

Well, they can't hang with Chuck Norris, of course, but I digress. 8)

And I know your cap is usually PL12 with a +15 damage usually being about the most you work with, maybe a +16 if memory serves. And that works wonderfully. It's still powerful enough to be above about anyone else, but not cosmic enough to make them serious challenges to Galactus types. It's all in the eye of the beholder and the system works for everyone, just depends on what you see as your "cap" for your setting, just like the comic writers do when take on certain characters. Berior's PL10 Superman is no more off than my PL14, just depends on how you're using them.

Thanks for shopping The JM, guys. I love to chat about building philosophy.
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#32

Post by Thorpacolypse » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:00 pm

Being one of THE BIG GUNS OF THE THORPACOVERSE isn't all about lifting bridges and flying to Mars in a minutes. It's about status, folks. And after the box office this guy has turned the past few years, his status is at an all-time high!

Image
That man is playing Galaga! Thought we wouldn't notice, but we did. - Tony Stark

IRON MAN
PL: 13 (265 pts) - OPL: 13 ; DPL: 12

ABILITIES: STRENGTH 2 [14], STAMINA 3, AGILITY 1 [3], DEXTERITY 3, FIGHTING 6, INTELLECT 10, AWARENESS 2, PRESENCE 3

SKILLS: Athletics (+14), Close Combat [Unarmed] 2 (+8/+10), Deception 7 (+10/+12) [Attractive], Expertise [Business] 3 (+13), Expertise [Science] 8 (+18), Insight (+2), Intimidation (+3), Investigation 2 (+12) [Contacts], Perception 7 (+9), Persuasion 5 (+8/+10) [Attractive, Connected], Ranged Combat [Weapon Systems] 5 (+8/+12), Stealth (+3), Technology 13 (+23) [Inventor, Skill Mastery, Ultimate Effort], Vehicles 4 (+7)

ADVANTAGES: Accurate Attack, Attractive (1), Benefit (5) (Wealth 5 [Billionaire]), Connected, Contacts, Equipment (5), Improved Aim, Improved Initiative, Inventor, Precise Attack [Ranged, Cover; Ranged, Concealment], Skill Mastery (1) (Technology), Ultimate Effort (1) (Technology)

POWERS:
Arc Reactor: Quickness 3 (Mental Tasks only); 2 pts
Bleeding Golden War Extremis Edge Armor: 145 pts traits, Flaw: Activation (Move Action); 144 pts
Jarvis A.I.: Feature 1 (Armor A.I.); 1 pt
Translator: Comprehend 2 (Understand, Understood all Languages, Flaw: Activation [Move Action]); 3 pts
Cybernetic Strength: Enhanced Strength 12; 24 pts
Cybernetic Speed: Enhanced Agility 2; 4 pts
Man of Iron: Protection 11, Impervious Toughness 7; 25 pts
Self-Contained Environment: Immunity 10 (Life Support); 10 pts
Sensor Array: Enhanced Parry 4, Enhanced Dodge 4, Enhanced Advantages 5 (Accurate Attack, Improved Aim, Improved Initiative, Precise Attack [Ranged, Cover; Ranged, Concealment]), Enhanced Skills 3 (Close Combat [Unarmed] 2 ranks, Ranged Combat [Weapons Systems] 4 ranks), Variable 1 (5 pts traits, Extra: Action [Move], Flaw: Limited [Sensory powers only]); 23 pts
Repulsor Boot Jets: Flight 11 (4000 mph/8 mpr); 22 pts
Weapon Systems: 28 pt Array; 33 pts
Repulsor Rays: Ranged Repulsor Energy Damage 14; 28 pts
Uni-Blast: Ranged Damage 16, Enhanced Advantages 1 (Power Attack), (Flaw: Inaccurate, Tiring); 1 pt
Uni-Beam: Line Area Damage 13 (Extra: Line Area 2 [60 ft], Penetrating 13, Flaw: Distracting, Unreliable [5 uses]); 1 pt
Missiles: Ranged Burst Area Ballistic Damage 9 (Extra: Area Burst [30 ft radius], Homing); 1 pt
Holograms: Illusion 9 (Visual and Auditory); 1 pt
Tractor Beam: Move Object 12 (Flaw: Limited to Metals); 1 pt


EQUIPMENT:
(25 pts)
Headquarters: (23 pts)
Stark Tower: Size - G, Tough - 12, Features - Communications, Computer, Fire Prevention System, Garage, Gym, Hangar, Infirmary, Laboratory, Library, Living Space, Personnel, Power System, Security System 3 [DC 30], Workshop; 23 pts

OFFENSE:
Initiative +3 (+7 in Armor)
Close Attack +6
Unarmed +8 (+10 in Armor) [Unarmed +2; Armor Unarmed +14]
Ranged Attack +3
Weapons Systems +8 (+12 in Armor) [Repulsor Blast +14; Missiles +9, Area Burst; Tractor Beam Move Object +12]
Uni-Blast +10 [Uni-Blast +16]
Special Attack [Uni-Beam +13, Line Area]

DEFENSES:
Dodge +6 (+10 in Armor) [DC16/20] Parry +6 (+10 in Armor) [DC16/20]
Toughness +3 (+14 in Armor, +7 Impervious in Armor), Fortitude +7, Will +10

COMPLICATIONS:
Addiction: Other people seem to think he has a drinking problem, HE doesn't seem to think so…
Arrogance: Most people think he is quite full of himself, HE doesn't think so…
Enemy: The Mandarin, Obadiah Stane and family, Justin Hammer and family.
Fame: Everyone knows he's Tony Stark, multi-billionaire playboy.
Power Loss: If the Arc Reactor is somehow removed, he loses pretty much all his motor functions, his stats drop to STR 1, STA 1, INT 8, and he loses access to his armor.
Relationships: He is close with Pepper Potts, James Rhodes, Jarvis and Steve Rogers.
Reputation: Drunk, womanizer, narcissist, war profiteer, superhero separatist.

Abilities 60 + Skills 28 (56 ranks) + Advantages 16 + Powers 146 + Defenses 15 = 265 / 265

Build Comments: Gotta love the resurgence of Tony Stark. Somehow, they took a character that Marvel had been forcing on us as A-League for years, we didn't quite buy it, then he becomes one of the most hated heroic characters EVER and then they make the movie and somehow it makes Stark 10 times the star he was in comicdom and their biggest property. Amazing...

I always liked Tony but he never struck me as the main player he was pushed to be. Now with the movie and Ultimate Iron Man, I love him. Yes, I know it’s wrong to be an irresponsible drunken playboy when you're supposed to be saving the world, but man, it's entertaining!

You'll note that I had some fun with the armor name because even though I went with his current Arc Reactor setup, I tried to keep him pretty general with the powers he's shown over the years. This armor is part of him like the Extremis and the Bleeding Edge, but I kept his PL about where he always is in comparison to the Marvel big timers like Hulk and Thor because, as someone mentioned on Taliesin's thread, no matter how many times he upgrades his armor, everyone else seems to upgrade somehow, too and he's still at pretty much the same comparative level as he always was.

Secret Origins: Anthony Edward Stark, the son of wealthy industrialist and head of Stark Industries, Howard Stark, and Maria Stark, is born on Long Island 40 years ago. A boy genius, he enters MIT at the age of 15 to study electrical engineering and later receives Master's degrees in electrical engineering and physics. After his parents are killed in a plane accident, he inherits his father's company at age 20.

His party boy public persona and technical innovations in the realm of weapons design made him a media star practically from day one. About 10 years ago, Stark went to Afghanistan to supervise a field test for one of his transistorized weapons. He ignored his friend, US Marine, James Rhodes’, concerns that security was insufficient. His convoy was ambushed and Stark was critically wounded by one of his own missiles. He was captured and imprisoned in a cave by the terrorist group the Ten Rings. An electromagnet grafted into Stark's chest by fellow captive, the renowned physicist and Nobel laureate Professor Ho Yinsen, kept the shrapnel shell shards that wounded him from reaching his heart and killing him. Ten Rings leader Raza offered Stark freedom in exchange for building a Jericho missile for the group, but Tony and Yinsen knew that Raza would not keep his word.

Stark and Yinsen secretly built a powerful electric generator called an arc reactor to power Stark's electromagnet and then began to secretly build a suit of armor powered by the reactor as a means to escape. Although they kept the suit hidden almost to completion, the Ten Rings attacked the workshop when they discovered their intentions. Yinsen sacrificed himself to divert them while the suit powered up. The armored Stark battled his way out of the cave, only to find the dying Yinsen, then the enraged Stark burned the Ten Rings weapons and flew away, only to crash in the desert, destroying the suit. After being later rescued by Rhodes, Stark returned home and announced that his company will no longer manufacture weapons. Obadiah Stane, his father's old partner and the company's manager, advised Stark that this may ruin Stark Industries and his father's legacy but Tony’s mind was made up. In his home workshop, Stark built an improved version of his suit, as well as a more powerful arc reactor for his chest. Stane requested details but Stark keeps his work to himself.

After some time in seclusion, he attends a charity event held by Stark Industries, Stark that his company's weapons, including the Jericho, were recently delivered to the Ten Rings and were being used to attack Yinsen's home village, Gulmira. Stark also learns Stane is trying to replace him as head of the company. Enraged, Stark donned his new armor and flew to Afghanistan, where he saved Yinsen's village and delivers a devastating blow to the Ten Rings. Later, the Ten Rings gathered the pieces of Stark's prototype suit and met with Stane, who double crossed Raza and had the rest of his group eliminated. Stane has a new suit reverse engineered from the wreckage. Seeking to find any other weapons delivered to the Ten Rings, Stark sent assistant Virginia "Pepper" Potts to hack into the company computer system from Stane's office. She discovered Stane has been supplying the terrorists and hired the Ten Rings to kill Stark, but the group reneged. Potts met with Agent Phil Coulson of the "Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division", a counter-terrorism agency, to inform him of Stane's activities.

Stane's scientists could not duplicate Stark's arc reactor so Stane ambushed Stark at home, using a sonic device to paralyze him, and takes his arc reactor. Left to die, Stark managed to crawl to his lab and plug in his original reactor. Potts and several S.H.I.E.L.D. agents attempted to arrest Stane, but he put on his armored suit and attacked them. Stark fights Stane, but is overmatched without his new reactor to run his suit at full capacity. Stark lured Stane atop the Stark Industries building and instructs Potts to overload the large arc reactor there. This unleashed a massive electrical surge that knocks Stane unconscious, causing him and his armor to fall into the exploding reactor, killing him.

The next day, the press had dubbed the armored hero "Iron Man". Agent Coulson gave Stark a cover story to explain the events of the night and Stane's death. At a press conference, Stark began giving the cover story, but paused and then announced that he was Iron Man.

The Story so Far: As Iron Man, Tony fought numerous threats to his company and the world, such as the Crimson Dynamo and the Titanium Man, as well as independent villains like the Mandarin, who eventually became his greatest enemy. He was a founding member of the Justice League before leaving with Captain America to start the Avengers.

3 years ago, learning of the government's plans to instigate a Superhuman Registration Act that would force costumed, super-powered individuals to reveal their identities to the government and sign on as licensed agents, Iron Man at first sought to defeat the proposal, even going to such lengths as to hire the Titanium Man to attack the hearing on the act as he testified in order to manipulate opinion in his favor. However, at some point, Tony Stark's opinion of the Act changed, seeing it as a new means to achieve the goal that he had sought in forming the "Illuminati", and to tie the knots of friendship between humans and superheroes. He attempted to convince the other members of the clandestine group to support the new Act, stating that their input could prevent the Act from becoming too restrictive of superhuman activities, but all except Mister Fantastic rejected the idea of registration.

After the Stamford, Connecticut disaster turned public opinion against super humans and fast-tracked the Act into law, Stark came out publicly in support of the Act, but the new law split the hero community in two. All of Stark's planning and manipulation came to fruition as Stark then became the representative and leader of the pro-registration side, placed in opposition to the anti-registration advocates. After a costly “Civil War” between the two sides, Stark’s pro-registration side won and Tony took over as head of SHIELD during one of Nick Fury’s absences.

After the Secret Invasion, Tony was replaced as America’s “top cop” by Norman Obsorn, who wanted all the information on the secret identities of the superhumans that had registered. Tony had them all in his brain and in order to save the information from Osborn, basically had his brain shut down and wiped. Pepper and some of his other allies were able to restore his brain and after Obsorn was ousted, Tony resumed his superheroic life and shifted his focus to reigning in Stark technology that had fallen into the wrong hands.

Characterization: Tony Stark is, for the lack of a better word, complicated. During his early days of success, Stark was a man who only cared about fame and wealth. He had no sense of responsibility or humility, always rubbing his success on the face of everyone he met. This all changed when he was captured by terrorists. After building the first Iron Man armor and escaping captivity, Stark had realized the kind of person he really was and engaged in a life of heroism to atone for his past mistakes.

Plagued by many vices, Stark is prone to womanizing, pride and alcoholism. This lifetime of troubles has caused him to develop a cynical view of the world. Despite this, Stark is devoted to truly make the world a better place.

Tony is known as a "futurist". He has stated that the way his mind works he can intuit the future, even being able to foreshadow that a situation similar to the superhuman Civil War was going to happen, years before it did.

Iron Man is a hero that relies on his intellect and technological resources to defeat foes and achieve victory. Stark invariably prides himself on being one of the most intelligent people in the world. Tony has survived the superhero Civil War and Secret Invasion and has come out on the other side. He had to have that Arc Reactor put in to reboot his brain and as such, he has said to hell with being on the wagon and has gone back to his roots, albeit a bit more closely monitoring the booze. But not the ladies' or his ego. Steve Rogers and Amanda Waller are concerned, but generally everyone agrees that this Tony is far more tolerable.

Friends and Foes: Tony’s best friend is Jim Rhodes, but he is probably closest to his long-time secretary, confidant, ex-girlfriend and current CEO of Stark Resilient, Virginia “Pepper” Potts. He is also good friends with his former bodyguard and head of security, Happy Hogan. In the superhero community, he is tight with Captain America Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner and Mr. Terrific, Michael Holt.

Due to his stance on the Superhuman Registration Act, there are several superheroes that still don’t trust him, most among them Batman and Jenny Sparks.

He has a long list of enemies in the supervillain community, chief among them is The Mandarin. Their history is very personal and The Mandarin, currently at large, seems to always been plotting against Stark. He also counts the Titantium Man, The Crimson Dynamo, the Hammer family, the Stane family, Whiplash and the Unicorn among his recurring foes.

Clean Up 4/20/11: Fixed up Tony a bit, taking him up a PL and cleaning up a couple of array issues.

Clean Up 6/9/13: Despite my amazing ability to continue NOT to be able to see Iron Man 3, I still wanted to do a little work on Tony. Feels better now.

Clean Up 8/11/13: Tony get the Superior Thorpacoverse treatment.

Clean Up 12/4/13: Tony goes back to PL13 on offense.
Last edited by Thorpacolypse on Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:31 am, edited 17 times in total.
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Re: The JM: Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, Iron Man

Post by Xarathos » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:46 pm

... I like this Iron Man ... :D

Reminds me, I need to rework my own Marvel big guns and stop being intimidated by how much I like everyone elses.

And by the way, Thorp, I agree completely with your thoughts on the Core builds, attack bonuses, and extra effort. I've heard some complaints about a few details, but the thing is that I really liked the core Batman, even if it DOES look pretty scary to see a +20 Attack bonus at first glance - but it relates perfectly to the other builds in terms of reflecting his place in the world, especially given liberal use of Power Attack and Defensive Attack.

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Re: The JM: Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, Iron Man

Post by JackGiantkiller » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:16 pm

Are area attacks not limited by PL anymore? The Unibeam is an area attack that is 2 pts higher than his PL....

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Re: The JM: Hulk, Black Adam, Captain Marvel, Iron Man

Post by Thorpacolypse » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:56 pm

JackGiantkiller wrote:Are area attacks not limited by PL anymore? The Unibeam is an area attack that is 2 pts higher than his PL....
Oops, they still are, I just missed that.

Dante, clean up on Aisle 2!

On it, boss!

Thanks, Jack! I also did some tweaks to Wolverine, Spider-Man, Superman and Hulk. Minor tweaks to the first two, added some Regeneration to Superman (dependent on direct exposure to yellow sunlight, of course) and added more Leaping to Hulk. 1 mile didn't seem long enough, so I went up 15 ranks so he can leap 30 miles. Some wikis had him leaping over a 1000 miles at once, but that seems like Green Scar Hulk leaping to me...

So now, back to the new stuff...
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#33

Post by Thorpacolypse » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:45 pm

Our look at THE BIG GUNS OF THE THORPACOVERSE keeps on with this new item on Aisle 2. And it's a RED, WHITE AND BLUE SPECIAL as well!

Image
In your warped, twisted mind, you think of combat as a game … some sort of noble sport! Well, it’s not!! It’s a grim, dirty business … But it’s a business that no one knows better than I do...

CAPTAIN AMERICA (STEVE ROGERS)
PL: 12 (233 pts) - OPL: 12 ; DPL: 12

ABILITIES: STRENGTH 7, STAMINA 7, AGILITY 7, DEXTERITY 7, FIGHTING 12, INTELLECT 2, AWARENESS 5, PRESENCE 8

SKILLS: Acrobatics 8 (+15), Athletics 8 (+15), Close Combat [Unarmed] 2 (+17), Deception (+8), Expertise [Military] 18 (+20), Insight 8 (+13) [Assessment], Intimidation (+8), Investigation 3 (+5), Perception 10 (+15), Persuasion 10 (+18) [Connected], Ranged Combat [Shield] 2 (+15), Stealth 6 (+13), Treatment 3 (+5), Vehicles 4 (+11)

ADVANTAGES: Assessment, Benefit (1) (Status – He’s Captain America), Close Attack (3), Combat Leader*, Connected, Equipment (8), Extraordinary Effort, Improved Critical (2) (Shield, Unarmed), Improved Disarm, Improved Hold, Improved Initiative (1), Inspire (5), Interpose, Languages (3) (French, German, 2 more, Base: English), Leadership, Lionheart*, Power Attack, Ranged Attack (6), Takedown (2), Teamwork

ENHANCED ADVANTAGES (SUPER SOLDIER ENHANCEMENTS): Diehard, Great Endurance

ENHANCED ADVANTAGES (STAR SPANGLED SHIELD): Improved Defense, Weapon Break

POWERS:
Super Soldier Enhancements: Immunity 4 (Aging, Intoxication, Disease, Poisons), Enhanced Advantages 2 (see Advantages), Movement 1 (Safe Fall), Speed 4 (30 mph), Leaping 1 (15 ft), Regeneration 2; 15 pts
Star Spangled Shield: 23 pts traits, Easily Removable (-10 pts); 13 pts
Indestructible: Feature 1 (Indestructible); 1 pt
Shield Mastery: Array, 20 pt array; 22 pts
Shield Strike: Bludgeoning Strength-Based Damage 2, Enhanced Advantages 1 (see Advantages), (Extra: Penetrating 9); 1 pts
Shield Toss: Bludgeoning Strength-Based Damage 2 (Extra: Penetrating 9, Ricochet 6, Flaw: Diminished Range [10/25/50]); 1 pts
Shielding: Enhanced Dodge 2, Enhanced Parry 2, Enhanced Advantages 1 (see Advantages), Impervious 5 (Flaw: Sustained), Enhanced Strength 5 (Flaw: Limited to Resisting Movement); 20 pts


EQUIPMENT:
(40ep)
Chain Mail Costume: Protection 3; 3ep
Justice League Communicard: Senses 2 (Communication Link [Radio, Justice League Members), GPS, Feature 1 (Watchtower/Avengers Mansion Access), Benefit 1 (Justice League Status); 5ep
Binoculars: +5 Perception [Visual at Distance], Tiny [1ep])
Mini-Tracer: Feature 1 (Tracking, 2 Mile range), Miniscule; 1ep
Lockpick Kit: Feature 1, Tiny; 1ep
Arsenal: (17ep)
Assault Rifle: Ballistic Ranged Damage 5, Extra: Multi-Attack; 125 ft range, Large; 15ep
Heavy Pistol: Ballistic Ranged Damage 4; 100 ft range, Small; 1ep
Knife: Piercing Strength-Based Damage 1, Critical 19-20, Small; 1ep, Vehicle: (12ep)
Motorcycle: Size - M, Strength - 1, Speed - 6, Def - 10, Tough - 8, Features 2 (Navigation System, Secret Compartments); 12ep

OFFENSE:
Initiative +11
Close Attack +15 [Shield Bash +9, Critical 19-20]
Unarmed +17 [Unarmed +7, Critical 19-20]
Ranged Attack +13 [Assault Rifle +5, Multiattack]
Thrown Shield +15 [Thrown Shield +9, Critical 19-20]

DEFENSES:
Dodge +12 (+14 with Shield) [DC22/24] Parry +12 (+14 with Shield) [DC22/24]
Toughness +10, Fortitude +10, Will +13

COMPLICATIONS:
Enemy: The Red Skull and Deathstroke
Guilt: Steve has great misgivings about being the most famous, and probably the best recipient of the Super Solider Serum. He feels guilty about the lives forever altered or destroyed by those who would attempt to recreate it
Man out of Time: Steve still sometimes has problems coping in the new millennium
Patriotism: Next to Uncle Sam, he's the closest thing to living embodiment of American Patriotism in the world
Power Loss: If Cap misses his target badly, an opponent catches his shield, etc. he will have to retrieve it, losing its powers and advantages
Relationships: Sharon Carter, The Falcon, Iron Man, Thor, Bucky and Superman are among his closest friends and he and Sharon are in a romantic relationship at the moment. He is also close with the original Avengers and sometimes, Nick Fury
Responsibility: He feels a strong sense of responsibility for his country and fellow super heroes. He is also is driven to make sure that another Civil War never occurs

Abilities 110 + Skills 41 (82 ranks) + Advantages 48 + Powers 18 + Defenses 16 = 233 / 233

Comments: After watching the Cap movie this summer and re-reading The Ultimates, I decided that the Cap of the Thorpacoverse would be based on that version, slightly melded with the Earth-616 version of Cap. That movie was so awesome and Millar’s take on him in Volume 1 &2 of The Ultimates is just so epic, I figured if I could have any take on Cap be the one to run with in my combined setting, I had to go with that one.

Ultimate Fury said Ultimate Cap could “bench press a Toyota” so the Strength of 7 seemed to fit, and the way he was portrayed in the movies as well as the Ultimate universe, enhancing his physical attributes to the true “peak” felt right. In addition, my Cap is not afraid to kill when necessary, something that has put him adds with Superman and Batman, even though they share a mutual respect and with Cap being the actual first super-hero (Superman ushered in the modern age only, and other superhumans/mutants that have existed throughout the millennia have operated in secrecy), he is completely respected (and feared) throughout the superhuman community.

Steve feels a great amount of guilt about the legacy of the Super Soldier program. He feels responsible for all the people that have died at the hands the scientists or those wrongly killed or hurt by the specimens produced by all those who have attempted to recreate the Super Soldier Serum. When not on specific missions, he spends his time searching out any active programs across the globe (Fury has shut down the American program and Cecil Steadman has complied and agreed, but Amanda Waller does not and rumors persist that she is involved with an undercover program that is still working to perfect the process) and any former subjects in hopes of righting any wrongs done in past, present or future.

One of his greatest rivalries is with one of the closest successes that the American program had, one Slade Wilson, alias Deathstroke the Terminator. And of course he also has a bit of a tiff, with a certain country full of cheese eatin' surrender monkeys...

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Last edited by Thorpacolypse on Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#34

Post by Thorpacolypse » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:05 pm

THE BIG GUNS OF THE THORPACOVERSE keep on rolling with another RED, WHITE AND BLUE SPECIAL!

Image
Seeing that Trinity together again for Siege warmed my heart. Seemed to have the opposite effect on Norman Osborn, though...

CAPTAIN AMERICA (JAMES BUCHANAN BARNES)
PL: 11 (200 pts) - OPL: 11 ; DPL: 11

ABILITIES: STRENGTH 6, STAMINA 4, AGILITY 5, DEXTERITY 6, FIGHTING 10, INTELLECT 1, AWARENESS 3, PRESENCE 2

SKILLS: Acrobatics 8 (+13) [Agile Feint], Athletics 5 (+11), Close Combat [Unarmed] 3 (+16), Deception 7 (+9), Expertise [Assassin] 12 (+13), Expertise [Military] 8 (+9), Insight 8 (+11) [Assessment], Intimidation 6 (+8), Investigation 6 (+7), Perception 7 (+10), Persuasion (+2), Ranged Combat [Firearms] 2 (+15), Sleight of Hand 4 (+10), Stealth 9 (+14) [Hide in Plain Sight, Skill Mastery], Technology 6 (+7), Treatment 4 (+5), Vehicles 5 (+11), Variable

ADVANTAGES: Agile Feint, Assessment, Close Attack (3), Defensive Roll (2), Equipment (7), Evasion (1), Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (2) (Firearms, Shield), Improved Initiative (1), Languages (4) (German, French, Russian, 5 others, Base: English), Quick Draw, Ranged Attack (7), Skill Mastery (1) (Stealth), Takedown (2), Tracking

ENHANCED ADVANTAGES: Star Spangled Shielding - Improved Defense

ENHANCED ADVANTAGES: Shield Mastery - Weapon Break

POWERS:
Bionic Arm: 13 pts traits, Removable (-3 pts); 10 pts
Bionic Strength: Enhanced Strength 3 (Flaw: Limited to Left Arm); 3 pts
Bionic Blasts: Array (9 pt array; 10 pts)
Electric Stun: Electric Affliction 9 (Resisted by Fortitude; 1st: Impaired, 2nd: Stunned, 3rd: Incapacitated); 9 pts
EMP: Nullify 9 (Resisted by Fortitude, Electronics); 1 pt

Shield Mastery: Array, 20 pt array; 22 pts
Shielding: Enhanced Dodge 2, Enhanced Parry 2, Enhanced Advantages 1 (see Advantages), Impervious 5 (10 ranks; Flaw: Sustained), Enhanced Strength 5 (Flaw: Limited to Resisting Movement); 20 pts
Shield Strike: Bludgeoning Strength-Based Damage 3, Enhanced Advantages 1 (see Advantages), (Extra: Penetrating 8]; 1 pt
Shield Toss: Bludgeoning Strength-Based Damage 3 (Extra: Penetrating 8, Ricochet 6, Flaw: Diminished Range [10/25/50]); 1 pt


EQUIPMENT:
(35ep)
Bulletproof Costume: Protection 2, Impervious 4 (8 ranks; Limited to Ballistics); 6ep
Commlink: Feature 1 (Radio Communication), Miniscule; 1ep
Binoculars: +5 Perception [Visual at Distance], Tiny [1ep])
Arsenal: (17ep)
Fragmentation Grenades: Ballistic Damage 5, Extra: Ranged Area Burst, Range 25 ft; 15ep
Heavy Machine Pistol: Ballistic Ranged Damage 4, Extra: Multiattack; 100 ft range, Medium; 1ep
Knife: Piercing Strength-Based Damage 1, Critical 19-20, Small; 1ep
Vehicle: (10ep)
Motorcycle: Size - M, Strength - 1, Speed - 6, Def - 10, Tough - 8; 10ep

OFFENSE:
Initiative +8
Close Attack +13 [Shield Bash +9, Critical 19-20; Electric Stun Affliction +9; Knife +4/+7, Critical 19-20]
Unarmed +16 [Right Arm Unarmed +3; Left Arm Unarmed +6]
Ranged Attack +13 [Shield Throw +9, Critical 19-20; Frag Grenades +5, Area Burst]
Firearms +15 [Machine Pistol +4, Critical 19-20, Multi-Attack]

DEFENSES:
Dodge +12 (+14 with Shield) [DC22/24] Parry +12 (+14 with Shield) [DC22/24]
Toughness +8, Fortitude +9, Will +10

COMPLICATIONS:
Disability: He is without his left arm due to the injuries sustained in the fateful fall in 1945 that nearly killed him
Enemy: Red Skull, Grand Director, Batroc the Leaper, Many former KGB members that were involved in the Winter Soldier program
Guilt: He has lots of guilt over his actions at the Winter Soldier while under control of the KGB
Identity: He is trying to keep his identity as Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier a secret, but it seems to be getting out…
Relationships: He is tight with Steve Rogers, his girlfriend Black Widow, and the Falcon
Responsibility: He has a strong sense of responsibility to upholding the position of Captain America
Weakness: In his time as the Winter Soldier, he was programmed with shutdown phrases that Doctor Faustus and others have acquired knowledge of

Abilities 68 + Skills 50 (100 ranks) + Advantages 33 + Powers 28 + Defenses 21 = 200 / 200

Comments: I actually like Bucky as Cap for the most part. It’s been a good change and it was a great way to bring Bucky back after all these years. I'm a little surprised he's still wielding the shield but if you're going to make a change like that, you need to commit and Brubaker and Marvel has certainly done that.

As a 3E build, Bucky Cap was pretty easy. I didn't make a whole lot of changes from my 2E version, but I do miss the old Anatomical separation power for his arm. I need to work up a mechanic for him to be able to control it when he takes it off, but I didn't feel like thinking that hard at the moment. I'll come back to it.

I stuck with the Shield Slinging Style for him and Steve, and US Agent when I get around to him. Just makes sense to me that someone like MVP shouldn't be able pick up the shield and just fling it around like Cap does. I would allow Taskmaster to do that without an HP because even though it's listed as a power and my upcoming build of him has him limited to Skills and Feats, I see that as more of a "skill" than a power.

In the Thorpacoverse, things are pretty much the same for him. He's Cap and he's trying to live up to the legend that is Steve Rogers. He's still dating Black Widow and runs with Falcon as a good Captain America should. But you know things can't go smoothly for him for too long, because a certain old German with a red visage is ALWAYS up to something...

Clean Up 11/27/10: Buck needed some cleaning on the Shield while I was straightening that out for Cap and others with Removable powers. He's in line with the changes to Steve now.

Clean Up 8/8/11: I figured since I was reworking my Rogers Cap builds, I'd take another look at Buck, too. He's quite a bit cleaner now.
Last edited by Thorpacolypse on Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:59 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: The JM: Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Steve Rogers, Bucky Cap

Post by catsi563 » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:38 pm

Only thing Id argue Is Steves fighting skill. he should be Batmans level or better. Pretty well your looking at Wolverine, Cap, Batman, Iron Fist, Shiva, and The Canary in any order you please with those three at the top.
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Re: The JM: Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Steve Rogers, Bucky Cap

Post by ClassDunce » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:47 pm

catsi563 wrote:Only thing Id argue Is Steves fighting skill. he should be Batmans level or better. Pretty well your looking at Wolverine, Cap, Batman, Iron Fist, Shiva, and The Canary in any order you please with those three at the top.
Ahhh! Sacrilege!

Shen Kuei (AKA the Cat) is on that list as well.

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Re: The JM: Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Steve Rogers, Bucky Cap

Post by Thorpacolypse » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:27 pm

catsi563 wrote:Only thing Id argue Is Steves fighting skill. he should be Batmans level or better. Pretty well your looking at Wolverine, Cap, Batman, Iron Fist, Shiva, and The Canary in any order you please with those three at the top.
The problem with some of the characters is the tradeoff with damage and attack bonus. Wolvie is great, but I don't see him at +16-+19 unarmed bonus and with his claws, I can't go near that high and keep the integrity of the build. I've seen him get his butt handed to him several times in pure fisticuffs, so I think his rep exceeds his skill. I think Deadpool and DD are probably better in pure unarmed combat.

My Batman that I am ALMOST done with is at +18 Unarmed, which was pretty much where I was going to top things. I was planning on having Shiva, Iron Fist, Shang-Chi and probably Karate Kid at that level but everyone else would be a notch below that at best. It's all debatable, though and always subject to change at the whim of The JM management team. :D

I don't count the future Chuck Norris build in that limit, however. He's more like +40 Unarmed, +45 with the Roundhouse Kick Close Damage. 8)
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Re: The JM: Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Steve Rogers, Bucky Cap

Post by luketheduke86 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:50 am

ClassDunce wrote:
catsi563 wrote:Only thing Id argue Is Steves fighting skill. he should be Batmans level or better. Pretty well your looking at Wolverine, Cap, Batman, Iron Fist, Shiva, and The Canary in any order you please with those three at the top.
Ahhh! Sacrilege!

Shen Kuei (AKA the Cat) is on that list as well.

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He is the Rock God among mercs 8). Also don't forget Shang-Chi!

Nice to see the Bucky Cap build, I too am a rather big fan of his, though it is nice to see that Steve Rogers is keeping busy as well. :D
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