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Rookie Moves: Affliction vs Concealment

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Rookie Moves: Affliction vs Concealment

Postby JDRook » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:50 pm

I've come to the realization that I really enjoy messing around with the game rules, possibly more than playing the characters themselves. I'm still not sure, since I haven't been able to stick with a game for a full encounter yet (as much my fault as anyone else's). But rather than dwell on that I figured I'd just follow my bliss and try posting up my musings, which would include figuring out house rules and building characters largely based around those rules or very specific concepts that catch my fancy.

Thematically, it may make more sense to post this in one of the rule discussion boards, but Roll Call seems to be the place for the amateur and Pro-Am guideliners. Also, I've decided to make this separate from my other thread, since most people have started a fresh thread for 3e anyway. I will be focussing on DCA/MnM3e here, but I may go back to the ever-more-crunchy 2e thread occasionally.

Index

Original 2e Characters
Crystal
Eddie
Chase
Street Mage

2e Test: Street Mage

Original 3e Characters
Crystal
Eddie
Chase
Street Mage

3e House Rules
Affliction vs Concealment
Knockabout Rules
The retooled Master Plan
Vehicles
Last edited by JDRook on Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: Rookie Moves: JDRook in 3e - Rule Musings

Postby JDRook » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:10 am

As with my first thread, I open with a variation on my first character, Crystal. This is a 3e PL10 version of her, and hopefully a little more playable, although some of the rule changes have made certain powers behave different, particularly Deflect. See below for my notes.


Crystal - PL 10

Strength 1, Stamina 2, Agility 4, Dexterity 2, Fighting 3, Intellect 3, Awareness 5, Presence 2

Advantages
Beginner's Luck, Defensive Roll 2, Eidetic Memory, Equipment 3, Improved Smash, Jack-of-all-trades, Walk like a Man

Skills
Acrobatics 2 (+6), Athletics 4 (+5), Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+7), Deception 2 (+4), Expertise (Theatre Technician) 2 (+5), Insight 6 (+11), Perception 6 (+11), Ranged Combat (Laser Blast) 6 (+8), Stealth 2 (+6)

Powers
Immunity: Immunity 10 (Common Descriptor: Light; Reflect, Redirect)
. . Ranged Light Manipulation: Deflect 14 (Alternate; Reflect, Subtle 2 (undetectable); Limited (Only EMR or Light-based attacks))
Invisibility: Concealment 4 (All Visual Senses)
Stored Light
. . Flash: Burst Area Affliction 10 (light, 1st degree: Impaired, 2nd degree: Disabled, 3rd degree: Unaware, Resisted by: Fortitude, DC 20; Alternate Resistance (Dodge), Burst Area (30 feet radius sphere))
. . Laser Aura: Energy Aura 4 (DC 19; Selective)
. . Laser Blast: Damage 8 (DC 23, Advantages: Improved Smash; Increased Range (ranged), Subtle (subtle), Accurate 2 (+4))
. . Point Defense: Deflect 14 (Subtle 2 (undetectable); Limited (Physical Projectiles only))
Visual Suite
. . 360 View: Senses 2 (Radius (Type): Visual; Sustained)
. . Millimeter Radar: Senses 4 (Penetrates Concealment: Visual; Sustained)
. . Remote Sensing: Remote Sensing 2 (Affects: Visual Senses; Subtle (DC 20+rank); Quirk (Chained Line of Sight))
. . Telescopic Vision: Senses 4 (Extended: Visual 2 (x100), Microscopic Vision 2 (cell-size); Sustained)
Wide-Spectrum Vision: Senses 2 (Infravision, Ultravision)

Equipment
Cell Phone, Costume 1, Light-Bike 12, Voice Changer 1

Offense
Initiative +4
Flash: Burst Area Affliction 10 (DC Dog/Fort 20)
Grab, +3 (DC 16)
Laser Aura: Energy Aura 4, +3 (DC 19)
Laser Blast: Damage 8, +12 (DC 23)
Throw, +2 (DC 16)
Unarmed, +7 (DC 16)

Complications
Identity: Crystal attempts to hide her powers and her identity while fighting crime, both to protect herself and her son. She usually either stays invisible or wears a full body suit and helmet to hide her identity and even her sex.
Power Loss: Crystal's Stored Light Array depends on having enough light to make the powers of the array work. Insufficient light means either a weaker rank or full power loss.
Relationship: Crystal has a teenage son, Michael, that she's raising herself. She's also trying to date, but has trouble between her other responsibilites.
Responsibility: Besides raising her son alone, she also works for a small theatre company as their resident technical director.

Languages
Native Language

Defense
Dodge 5, Parry 4, Fortitude 4, Toughness 4/2, Will 10

Power Points
Abilities 44 + Powers 71 + Advantages 9 + Skills 17 (34 ranks) + Defenses 9 = 150

Created With Hero Lab® - try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com!

:arrow: I've already gone into a lot of detail about this character here, so I'll stick to the new stuff and variations.
:arrow: "Walk Like a Man":Flying in the face of the overly sexualized heroine stereotype, Crystal calls on her theatre and dance background to build a costumed persona that looks masculine (and that I still don't have a name for). The custom advantage removes the circumstance penalty for this disguise. The voice changer and costume (matte black motorcycle gear with helmet) help as well.
:arrow: The new "broad" skills make her feel even more versatile, even though she had Jack-of-all-Trades before.
:arrow: The change in Deflect really affected Crystal's effectiveness (even moreso with Eddie when I post his new build). Before with Deflect, it cost 1pp/rank to deflect fast, slow, energy, mental, or did they change this that or the other in UP and blah blah blah. In short, it was a mess, and for Crystal, an expensive mess. My concept allowed for some flaws to keep the cost down, but it didn't quite work. Now that Deflect is simplified down to a standard action that allows an active Defend maneuver to be used at range against close or ranged attacks, I could arguably put 3 flaws (Ranged only, Energy Only, Light only) on a power that's starts at 1pp/rank. This seems downright abusive, though, so I've stuck with making it a single flaw. On the other hand, it's also a "partial" AE on her Light Immunity, specifically off of her Reflect and Redirect extras for 20pp. This allows her to keep her Immunity permanent on herself, but also use her R&R extras on other people.
:arrow: Deflect is also funny in that it's still debatable whether it's PL-capped or not. Since it's a standard action to Defend, not attack, and it defends other people, should it cap based on their toughness instead of yours? In this case I'm assuming it is capped based on the user, but it works out great for Crystal since she's mostly normal with a low toughness. 14 ranks seemed reasonably powerful without pushing it, and it fit with my flaw in there.
:arrow: Invisibility still costs the same, but Morph's changed a lot, but again in Crystal's favor. I don't have it on this version, but sometimes I give her Morph flawed to Visual only as an alternate effect of Invis. Morph used to be +5 Disguise per rank, and was 2pp/rank for a narrow group , then 1 with a flaw, so I could get 8 ranks for +40 disguise and feel pretty secure about that, although with the flaw she wouldn't sound or smell right. 3e Morph is now a fixed bonus of +20 Deception (which is reasonable: how often are you going to need more?) but at 5pp/rank, with ranks defining how varied your disguise could be. Fortunately Morph 2 with Visual Only again cost only 8pp. I think a Morph limited to another sense might best be done as a -2 flaw, whereas a Morph that affects all senses except one should be -1 flat.
:arrow: I went a bit crazy with the Visual Suite. I kept coming up with ideas, but figured she shouldn't be able to keep them all going at once, except for IR and UV vision which are essentially her new "natural" vision. I made all of the senses Sustained so they could be arrayed.
:arrow: She doesn't hit all of her caps, but what she does she does well. I capped her Flash to blind everyone around her, and her laser which is specifically tuned to break held weapons.
:arrow: Actually, considering her invisibility, subtle attacks, enigmatic hero persona and "cutting guns in half with her mind," she's essentially the Sphinx from Mystery Men! :D
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Knockabout Rules: Part 1 - Falling

Postby JDRook » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:25 am

There's been a lot of discussion around falling, throwing, shoving and knocking back characters on the boards, and I'd like to try exploring a few points here, under the collective name Knockabout Rules. I'm starting with falling, since it is probably the simplest and can give me something to build on.

Relatively straight forward, I tried crunching numbers on DCA's falling damage rules. Damage is based on distance fallen as opposed to a function of speed, which makes long falls more threatening and more dramatic than they should be realistically. Fall speeds actually start about equal to speed rank 1-2 in the first second and don't actually go much higher than 5 or 6 before terminal velocity hits. (They have effectively set up their terminal velocity to hit after falling a distance of rank 6.) Calculating that like a slam doesn't do much, even if you factor in mass, unless you double the speed rank. Distance is relatively easy to figure out in most cases of falling, though, so it's a better variable to base it on.

Fall Time: Shadowchaser played with some falling rules and changed a few things up that eventually didn't work out the way he thought, but he did come up with what I thought was one excellent idea - genre-based falling time.
Shadowchaser wrote: If the distance fallen is greater than 0 ranks (30 feet) then the character won't hit bottom until the next round (for genre reasons. I want to give players the chance to catch people).

Short falls (30' or less) require a resistance check vs Toughness at up to +4, so DC19, which can be a little tough on normals but rarely lethal. Most heroes can easily walk away from it, though, due either to good toughness saves or acrobatic skills. Even minimal Acro skill can routinely get you 2 degrees, allowing a hero to hit the ground running from a 15' fall (provided he can take any action) and Acro 10 covers you right to 30'. On the other side, there's also Impervious Toughness, although an Imperv hero with no Acro would still end his fall effectively prone (perhaps climbing out of the hole he made in the pavement :) ).

Code: Select all
Time(s)   Distance (feet)   Distance Rank   Fall Damage   
1               16             -1            2
2               64             1            6
3               146            2            8
4               256            3            10
5               400            4            12
6               576*            4.5            13
7               784            5            14
8               1024            5            14
9               1296            6            16


Long Falls over 30' start to ramp up fast into real damage, so that even the best Acro or Imperv can still take damage. This is where it's good to have friends who can catch you. Any catchers will have time to position for long falls since the landing won't occur until next round. This also gives the faller a chance to shake any effects and get ready for landing. Catching is designed to be easy (DEX vs DC5), and the catcher can absorb falling damage with Strength. Again, I'd probably add any Acro check successes to Str to counter falling damage, but Imperv would still hit the ground hard.

Immunity If you wanted to avoid falling damage in particular, Immunity to Falling damage or the Safe Fall movement power cost 2pp, or go for half effect for 1pp and only take half of what's left after applying your defenses. Most any other method of lowering falling damage is more complex and expensive than this, so unless it's somehow crucial to your concept, stick with these.

Very long falls could conceivably last several rounds. I recommend making the falls last one round for every 1000', which works out to about a mile every 30 or two miles a minute, which is about 120 miles per hour, the standard terminal velocity for "belly down" skydivers. Falls this long can open up several interesting possibilities:
- "Better late than never" rescues: very long falls will do the maximum damage, so getting heroes together to catch a faller can be even more dramatic. You may even have time to call them on the way down.
- "The sooner we land, the sooner we'll be safe!": if your tough enough or racing the clock or just plain suicidal, you could pull in your limbs and point yourself at the ground, doubling your fall speed.
- Air Combat: Falls like this are often from airplanes or flying fortresses or even from orbit, and there may be several other fallers, possibly some enemies. This could turn into a chase to the ground, or all opponents could end up falling at the same relative speed and continue fighting, moving in 3 dimensions. For simplicity, non-flyers can move horizontally at rank 0 and can use Athletics for additional speed, but with circumstance penalties for falling. Combat is penalized the same amount. Ranged combat is relatively normal, but all melee attacks send opponents moving apart far enough to require a move action to reengage unless they grab on to each other. Flyers (and possibly experienced fallers) suffer no penalty, can move about at full flying speed and will likely dominate any combat with non-flyers.
- Miscellaneous: other opportunities in freefall might be the sudden manifestation of powers (read: alternate effects), time to jury-rig a device, or roleplaying opportunities for soliloquies about mortality. Under these rules, some falls may in fact feel too long, so feel free as GM to go out of combat time and move things forward, unless the suspense is really good.

Special: Teleporting for fall damage - Another of Shadowchaser's ideas that I am shamelessly stealing is using teleport to cause falls and/or impart velocity to targets as a form of attack. This could be a fun effect, but there is also a lot of room for abuse. I could see doing this with a few caveats:
- Teleport Drops - The easiest idea is to simply Teleport your target straight up and have them fall, taking damage as per the falling damage rules. This can be potentially unbalancing for several reasons.

Tune in tomorrow for the rest - I'm too tired to write anymore.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Rookie Moves: Knockabout Rules 2 - Teleport and Falling

Postby JDRook » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:07 pm

Special: Teleporting for fall damage - Another of Shadowchaser's ideas that I am shamelessly stealing is using teleport to cause falls and/or impart velocity to targets as a form of attack. I started playing with this, and found it a little more workable than I first suspected. Consider the possibilities:

Teleport Slams: This is the one Shadowchaser inspired. Since there are flat modifiers to allow a teleporter to Change Direction and Velocity, it should be possible to teleport someone else and accelerate them into the ground or a wall. For simplicity, this is probably best expressed as plain old Damage effect. The most basic Teleport Attack is a close attack, so the PC would have to touch the target in order to teleport it. If the target didn't actually move from the spot, this would be mechanically identically to a Strike, and best bought that way, but if the PC wanted to move the target anywhere within his range AND do the slam, then the Teleport Attack and Damage effects should be linked. An even more elegant solution would be to add a Damaging extra to the Teleport Attack, allowing the PC to slam the target for damage equal to the Teleport rank.
Additionally, it should be possible (and desirable) to have the target land prone, just like at the end of a fall. There are only 2 ways defined in the DCA to get a target to fall prone as an attack: Affliction and the Trip Maneuver. Trip is a standard action and would therefore require Extra Effort to use in the same turn as the Teleport Attack, which doesn't really work. Affliction is better in that it could be linked here as well. A third possibility would be to make a custom extra for Prone and add that to the entire effect much like we did with damage, still requiring a second degree of success for Prone to trigger. So two possible builds are:

Teleport Slam
. . Prone: Affliction X (Linked; 1st degree: Dazed, 2nd degree: Prone, Resisted by: Fortitude, DC 10+X; Alternate Resistance (Dodge); Limited Degree, Instant Recovery)
. . Damage: Damage X (Linked; DC 15+X)
. . Teleport: Teleport Attack X (Linked; X distance rank, DC 10+X; Attack (Dodge))

OR

Teleport Slam: Teleport Attack X (X distance rank, DC 10+X; Attack (Dodge), Custom (Damaging), Custom (Prone))

The advantages of the first one are that you can vary the rank of each effect to your liking, and it all fits perfectly with Rules As Written. The second one is a little more elegant, and cheaper to improve range, but has all the ranks tied together. Actually, now that I look at it, the first one is likely the most useable and least abusive build, and I'd probably recommend it for this effect. I might allow Teleport with the Damaging Extra linked to Affliction just to keep additional extras like Range from becoming too ridiculously expensive.

Teleport Drops: I thought this one would be too easy to abuse, but it works better than I thought, although it may require a little house-ruling. The concept is simple enough: Teleport your target straight up and have them fall, taking damage as per the falling damage rules. There are a few concerns:
1) Disproportionate Damage: a basic Teleport Attack at rank 1 would allow you to teleport any target you successfully touched for only 2pp, but if you allow for a vertical teleport the full distance upward, that calls for falling damage of +6. Every additional rank costs another 2pp and adds another 2 damage, which is unbalanced. Or is it? If you do the math and compare costs, this Teleport power costs the same as an equivalent Damage power +4. So it's unbalanced, right?
Maybe not. We've seen this mechanic before. You can get a Damage rank 2 effect to do 6 damage consistently and for no additional cost (sort of). Any guesses?
Yes, you at the back, that's right. Have a Str of 4 and make the effect Str-based. Unlike the Mighty feat of 2e, this option costs nothing, as it is presumed covered by the conditional nature of Str-based damage.

DCA p94 wrote:. . .any decrease in your Strength reduces
the amount you can add to your Damage, and negative
Strength subtracts from your Damage! Likewise, anything
that prevents you from exerting your Strength also
stops you from using a Strength-based Damage effect. If
you can’t swing your fist, you can’t swing a sword, either.


So how does this apply here? Teleport isn't Str-based. Well, no, but I'd suggest that falling damage is at least as conditional as Str-based damage, if not significantly moreso. Besides acrobatics, Teleport Drops would be uneffective on characters with Flight, Glide, Safefall or other appropriate movement powers. And then there's those easy team catches and terminal velocity. On the positive side, there's the +4 to fall damage and the prone effect on landing. It's my suggestion that these aspects balance each other out and can be considered the effect of "Fall-based Damage."

So if we accept Fall-based Damage as an acceptable house-ruled option for the Damage effect, this means we can create the Teleport Drop effect like this:

Teleport Drop: Teleport Attack X (X distance rank, DC 10+X; Attack (Dodge), Custom 2 (Damaging - Fall-based))

For this effect, Fall-based Damage is a +2 Extra, since falling damage is twice the distance rank plus four, and maxing out at 16. But what about the Affliction, I hear you ask? Prone is part of the Fall-based Damage effect, so it's already built in.

So a rank 4 Teleport Drop would allow the PC to hit a close target and Teleport them up to 500 feet straight up, where they would fall and hit the ground for rank 12 damage right in front of the PC. The Teleport aspect does allow the PC to send his target further away, but he shouldn't be able to get maximum height and distance at the same time, since that would be about 700 feet away diagonally. (Thank you, Pythagoras!) To avoid this without doing a lot of math, I would propose that for the distance to target location of the teleport, the horizontal rank plus the vertical rank must be equal or less than the Teleport rank (negative distance ranks count as zero). Using the rank 4 T-Drop above, the PC could send his target straight up 500' and up to 30' away, or 250' up and up to 60' away, or 120' up and away, etc. Shorter falls would of course mean less damage.

Tune in next time for the concerns of Falling Time as part of an attack.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Rookie Moves: Knockabout Rules 3 - KB by Paragon

Postby JDRook » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:51 pm

In playing about with what I call the Knockabout rules (Falling, Knockback, Throwing, etc) I inevitably came across Paragon's work, who has been haunting these boards for seven years next month. (Happy Anniversary!) He (I'm assuming he) has been kicking the tires on every edition since the first and has an impressive posting average of over six posts a day. This is someone who has a good grasp of the game, so when I found his 3e Knockback houserule, I was thrilled. I will be referencing it heavily in this post, so I recommend reading through it first.

The aspect I looked at in particular is the degrees of KB. One degree is knocked down (prone), a second degree is knocked back 30' (rank 0) plus prone and add a rank for every additional degree. It wasn't until I read it a few times that I saw the simple pattern to it.

1 Degree = knockdown = 1 move action to reengage close combat
2 Degrees = kb rank 0 (30') + kd = 1 move + 1 move = 2 move or 1 full round to reengage
3 Degrees = kb rank 1 (60') + kd = 2 move + 1 move = 3 moves to reengage
4 Degrees = kb rank 2 (120') + kd = 4 move + 1 move = 5 moves to reengage
5 Degrees = kb rank 3 (250') + kd = 8 move + 1 move = 9 moves to reengage

... and so on. Playing with numbers you could get as high as 10 degrees if you had, say, Solomon Grundy power attack a puppy, but most combats are going to be fairly balanced and therefore would rarely go past 4-5 degrees, particularly for the Push option.

What you get is an increasing loss of actions as the degrees go up (2^(distance rank) + 1(prone))* until an opponent is too far away to reengage in combat. Of course, this can be overcome by the right purchased effects, but for this discussion assume a character of base abilities.

There is a similar loss-of-action economy going on with basic Damage, shown here.

1 Degree = -1 Toughness penalty
2 Degrees = Dazed (lose an action) and -1
3 Degrees = (Staggered = Dazed + Hindered = lose an action + move half effective) and -1
4 Degrees = Incapacitated (no actions)

Both limit action on an increasing scale, but damage effectively has a ceiling on it, with 4th degree failure giving a maximum effect. We could apply this same idea to Paragon's KB house rule and come up with this:

1 Degree = knockdown = 1 move action to reengage combat
2 Degrees = kb rank 0 (30') + kd = 1 move + 1 move = 2 move or 1 full round to reengage
3 Degrees = kb rank 1 (60') + kd = 2 move + 1 move = 3 moves to reengage
4 Degrees = Maximum Knockback = Throwing distance of target's mass (potentially out of combat)

We now have a basic mechanic for knocking people around in combat. The base application would be Paragon's Push maneuver using Strength. Push is defined as a -2 attack with an option to buy off the penalty with a flat extra, or to look at it another way, Push is inherently Inaccurate, which fits conceptually. One could also apply this maneuver to other effects, like Move Object, to swat away opponents at range, but I would recommend bumping the penalty to -5 for ranged attacks, much like the Disarm maneuver. In fact, one could do this:

PUSH STANDARD ACTION
You attempt to push an opponent away. Make an attack check against the defender with a –2 penalty. If you attempt to push with a ranged effect, you are at –5 penalty. If your attack succeeds, take your Strength (or the appropriate effect's rank) and add 15 to determine the DC. The target makes a resistance check using Strength, Dodge or Flight ranks at his choice.
Ranks of Growth will directly add to Strength or Flight value for this purpose; half the rank of Impervious Toughness (i.e. the part that in 3e is actually Impervious) add to it too. Ranks of Defensive Roll will add to Dodge for purposes of this roll. Ranks of Shrinking come off any resistance.
A single degree of failure causes the target to be knocked down; each additional degree will cause the target to be knocked back one step on the distance chart, starting at rank 0 (30 feet). Targets may take additional damage for hitting other objects when pushed, equal to the rank of the distance; its possible under some circumstances such objects could include a person (usually they'll get a Dodge roll against the rank of the push to avoid this).
If you make a push attempt at close range and lose the opposed check, the defender may immediately make an attempt to push you back as a reaction; make a resistance vs the defender's Strength/effect using your choice of Strength, Dodge or Flight as above. If this push attempt fails, you do not, however, get an additional attempt to push the defender.


This is basically a mashup of Paragon's Push and the Disarm maneuver. I particularly like the reversal option at the end, which gives the opportunity for some super-shoving matches. The Advantage Improved Push would remove both close and ranged penalties to Push and the reaction reversal on failed Pushes.

Another application of this mechanic could be making Teleport Attack more balanced and less of a binary effect. In the previous post, I did a lot of playing around with Teleport Attack variations, but didn't actually use the most common one of simply teleporting someone away. In practice, a basic Teleport Attack cost 2pp/rank, requires a close attack and is usually resisted by Dodge, and would either miss (Dodged) or have the full effect of the power (or as much as the Teleporter wishes to use). This gets unbalanced in a hurry, since a rank 5 'Port for 10pp can send a target with Dodge 5 900' (30 move actions) away about half the time on a successful hit, effectively ending combat in most cases, while Str 5 (10pp) vs Tou 5 will give a -1 penalty and a daze on average.

I propose using the Push maneuver as the mechanic for what I call Combat Teleport. Use 'Port rank +15 for DC and Dodge for resistance. Results are identical with the following adjustments:
1) First degree of success is rank 0 distance plus one for each additional degree. Total distance rank cannot exceed 'Port rank.
2) Prone is only available if the effect has the Change direction flat extra and can be used in exchange for 1 degree of success as the 'Porter desires.
3) (optional) 4 degrees is always maximum distance rank.

Tune in tomorrow and maybe I'll figure out a way to blend this with falling damage from vertical 'ports.


*this breaks down a little after 6 degrees when the doubling scale on the Ranks & Measures table goes wonky, but as mentioned before, this will practically never happen in balanced combat.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Rookie Moves: Affliction vs Concealment

Postby JDRook » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:24 pm

There are several effects that limit or block the senses in one way or another, and most of them can be described using these two powers. The question is when to use which?

Base Affliction is a staged attack that can be used against the senses of opponents, while base Concealment keeps you from being perceived by senses. Affliction is imposed on others and can be resisted, while Concealment is *usually* intended as a defensive power and is either on or off (binary). The application of certain modifiers can complicate these definitions, particularly Area and Attack.

Affliction Area would attack the senses of anyone in the area, while a Concealment Area would simply hide an area and all contents. Would people in an invisibility field be visible to each other? I'd go with yes, since it's not a resistable attack, it just makes the area invisible to anyone outside the area. If it was an attack, then everyone inside it would be invisible to each other, but would get a chance to resist somehow.

Batman has both of these effects on his utility belt (naturally). The flash bomb and the smoke bomb. Both are rank 4 Area attacks. (Note: there is no RAW way to increase Concealment rank without adding senses it can effect).

What's the difference? Batman lobs a Flash Bomb at your location, it goes off, hitting you automatically (Area) and you resist vs Fortitude against a DC14, with a staged effect of -2 visual perception, then -5, then total blindness for at least a minute. This costs 12 points (Affliction doesn't require double cost for visual effects for some reason). Those affected keep saving until they successfully resist the flash.

Batman lobs a Smoke Bomb at your location, it goes off, hitting you automatically (Area) and you resist vs SOMETHING (dodge?) against a DC14, with failure making you effectively totally blind while in the area, so walking out of the cloud should let you see again, but not back into the cloud. This also costs 12 points.

Batman's Smoke Bomb is close range, so he's in the middle of his area effect. Is he affected? I'd say no, simply because there's no indication that attackers are affected by close range area effects, plus it simply doesn't fit genre. Buying an attack that does affect you should count as a side effect, or at least a quirk.

What if you built the smoke bomb differently? Using Affliction? An Affliction smoke bomb could work similarly, although it would have the staged effect, but logically the resistance rolls would continue even outside the cloud, which would make it more like tear gas (with no stun component), unless you gave it an Instant Recovery flaw.

(Incidentally, Batman can technically maintain that smoke bombs as long as he can use free actions, plus one round for cloud. Affliction is instant, so it would last that round plus cloud.)

How about Environment? It has a base effect of -5 to Visibility for 2/rank and starts as 30' area effect, so almost as good as a smoke bomb, right? And for only 2 points! This is meant for weather characters, of course, and for this power I'd make the attacker be affected by it unless he bought an extra of some sort (Selective is the obvious choice, or possibly Precise or just a 1pt immunity). It's just not quite right for a smoke bomb.

The original inspiration to explore all these variants was trying to figure out a way to knock out someone's speech. After all the wrestling back and forth it came down to either a Concealment Attack vs Hearing that makes the target inaudible, or a speech-disabling Affliction, and the OP went with the latter. Considering how effective speech can be for some characters, this was probably the best option.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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