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Defense Limit question

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Defense Limit question

Postby GMCiaramella » Wed May 23, 2012 12:08 pm

I am getting a little frustrated with M&M... I am probably missing things in the book.

I have been looking through a lot of threads here on the forums with writeups and they have things in them that I thought were not allowed... here is an example, using the JMart PL10 writeup of Batman:

Thorpacolypse wrote:BATMAN PC
PL:
10 (150 pp) – OPL: 10; DPL: 10

ABILITIES: STR: 18 (+4) DEX: 18 (+4) CON: 18 (+4) INT: 20 (+5) WIS: 18 (+4) CHA: 12 (+1)

SKILLS: Acrobatics 6 (+10), Bluff (+5), Climb (+4), Computers (+5), Concentration (+4), Craft [Mechanical] 5 (+10), Diplomacy (+1), Disable Device 4 (+9) [Skill Mastery], Disguise (+1), Drive (+4), Escape Artist 6 (+10), Gather Info 9 (+10) [Contacts, Well-Informed], Handle Animal (+1), Intimidate 8 (+13) [Skill Mastery, Startle], Investigate 8 (+13) [Skill Mastery], Knowledge [Streetwise] 4 (+9), Knowledge [Technology] 5 (+10) [Inventor], Languages 6 (Japanese, Mandarin, Spanish, French, Russian, Arabic, Base: English), Medicine (+4), Notice 8 (+12), Pilot (+4), Profession [CEO] (+4), Ride (+4), Search 4 (+9), Sense Motive 8 (+12) [Assessment], Sleight of Hand (+4), Stealth 11 (+15) [Skill Mastery], Survival (+4), Swim (+4)

FEATS: Assessment, Attack Specialization (2) [Unarmed x2], Beginner's Luck, Benefit (3) [Intelligence for Bluff and Intimidate Checks, Wealth], Challenges (1) [Vanish], Contacts, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll (1), Dodge Focus (8), Eidetic Memory, Equipment (8), Evasion (1), Improved Critical (1) [Unarmed], Improved Initiative (1), Improved Ranged Disarm, Inventor, Jack-of-All-Trades, Luck (2), Master Plan, Power Attack, Skill Mastery (1) [Disable Device, Intimidate, Investigate, Stealth], Sneak Attack (1), Startle, Takedown Attack (1), Ultimate Effort (1) [Ultimate Will Save], Uncanny Dodge [Auditory], Well-Informed

POWERS:
None


EQUIPMENT:
(40ep)

Bat Costume (Protection, CommLink, Night Vision, Rebreather, Gas Mask [6ep]) [2]
Extra Long Cape (Protection [1ep]) [1]
Utility Belt (28ep array):
Flash Bangs (16ep)
Batarangs (Masterwork Boomerangs; Blast 2, PF: Improved Critical, Mighty, Ricochet [1ep]) [2] - DC:21:tough
Exploding Batarangs (1ep) [5] - DC:15:ref
Bat Shuriken (Masterwork Shuriken; Extra: Auto-Fire, PF: Improved Critical [1ep]) [1] - DC:16:tough
Stun Gun (1ep) [7] - DC:17:fort
Smoke Grenades (1ep) [4]
Bat Bolos (Snare [1ep]) [4] – DC:14:ref
Grapple Gun and Swing Line (Super Movement [Swinging] and Speed 1; 1ep) [1]
Burglar's Kit, Mini-Tracer, Flash Light, Handcuffs, PDA (7ep)

COMBAT: Base Attack +10, Melee +10, Ranged +10, Batarangs +11, Bat Shuriken +11, Unarmed +14, Grapple +14 [Unarmed +4, 19-20 Critical (Bruise), Batarangs +6, 19-20 Critical (Bruise), Exploding Batarangs +5 (Bruise), Bat Shuriken +1, 19-20 Critical, Auto-Fire (Bruise)]; Defense 22 (12 flat-footed); Init +10; Knockback -4 (-3 flat-footed)

SAVES: Toughness +8 (+7 flat-footed), Fortitude +6, Reflex +7, Will +9 [Ultimate Save]

DRAWBACKS:

Abilities 44 + Skills 23 (92 ranks) + Feats 45 + Powers 0 + Combat 28 + Saves 10 – Drawbacks 0 = 150 / 150


What is confusing me, how is Bats allowed to have a Defense of 22? I thought (according to what I read in the book) that the total of defense + toughness was limited to 20 for PL10 and Batman here has a total of 30 (22+8). Can someone please help me understand this so I can make my own character?

Gary
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Re: Defense Limit question

Postby FuzzyBoots » Wed May 23, 2012 12:24 pm

It's a matter of how the value is stated. The defensive bonus and toughness must total to twice the PL, but some people prefer to express defense in terms of the total defense, including the base 10. Thus, this form of Batman has a defense bonus of 12 (base of 4 + dodge focus of 8) and a toughness of 8 (Con bonus of 4 + Extra-long-cape for 1 + Defensive Roll of 1 + his bat-costume adding 2 [not very well expressed in the writeup, but you can figure it out by taking the 6 EP and subtracting the 4 EP of features]) which add up to 20, twice his PL of 10.
Last edited by FuzzyBoots on Wed May 23, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defense Limit question

Postby kenseido » Wed May 23, 2012 12:30 pm

This is actually a very common problem people have, mixing up Defense Bonus and Defense score. The PL limit is on Defense Bonus, while the Defense score is 10+Defense Bonus.

Fuzzy explained the specific of the Batman writeup you showed very well.
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