Errataed Incorporeal Question

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Errataed Incorporeal Question

Post by galaga88 » Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:59 pm

Okay, the errata for Incorpreal reads now that you have one 'effect' that can affect you normally, such as unarmed, iron weapons, or a type of energy.

By type of energy, are we talking the same types as from energy control?

The FAQ mentions being damaged by environmental hazards however, which seems odd. Does this mean a very hot fire will burn you while incorporeal, but a fire energy blast won't?

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Post by Belmonte » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:16 pm

Remember, Incorporeal doesn't necessary mean 'not there'. You could simply be diffuse particles ala density control, where prolonged environmental exposure can hurt you. It's a generic system effect. If you want to be truly not there, so the environment won't effect you, you need to buy the Immunity extra as well.
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Post by grahf » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:37 pm

Yeah, normal Incorporeal assumes you can still interact with the corporeal world enough to breathe its air, for starters.

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Post by Dr Archeville » Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:50 am

Yup. Katherine "Ariel/Sprite/Shadowcat" Pryde has Incorporeal without the Immunity/Suffocation feat (she can only stay out-of-phase for as long as she can hold her breath), while the Red Ghost has Incorporeal & the Immunity/Suffocation feat (while in his mist-like form, he needs neither air, food, nor water).
galaga88 wrote:By type of energy, are we talking the same types as from energy control?
Yes. If you become Incorporeal because you've become a shadow, EB/Light could still hurt you if you took "Light" as your susceptibility. In Palladium's Heroes Unlimited, Electricity could affect all Intangible characters normally.
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Post by Matt H » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:18 am

I haven't had any phasing characters yet (so I'm not sure if it would be too unbalancing), but what I've considered doing is using ranks in Incorporeal as damage save bonus vs. all energy attacks. I figure that will give a little more incentive to buy up what is currently a front-end loaded power.

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NEW QUESTON

Post by Samson » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:57 am

Ok, as for disadvantages i says pick a physical attack...
I have a player who i s trying to pick Sorcery, Thats not legit is it/
I toom it to mean, lightning, energy blast, freeze-blasts,soonic powers, etc...


Someone help with this.
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Re: NEW QUESTON

Post by farik » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:29 am

Samson wrote:Ok, as for disadvantages i says pick a physical attack...
I have a player who i s trying to pick Sorcery, Thats not legit is it/
I toom it to mean, lightning, energy blast, freeze-blasts,soonic powers, etc...


Someone help with this.
As a GM I'd say sorcery is too specific but I would allow them to select "magic." On one hand only one power source will effect the character but on the other hand that power source can generate a much wider array of effects (snare, paralyze, stun, energy blast, etc...). Keep in mind any "energy blast" generated by sorcery is both magic and the SFX of the blast so a magic fireball is both fire and magic.
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Post by Marshal Law » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:30 am

Matt H wrote:I figure that will give a little more incentive to buy up what is currently a front-end loaded power.
You mean, apart from the fact that whilst incorporeal all of your other powers are limited to no more than your ranks in Incorporeal?

I'd say that for most characters, thats a very good incentive not to front-load.
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Post by farik » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:33 am

Marshal Law wrote:
Matt H wrote:I figure that will give a little more incentive to buy up what is currently a front-end loaded power.
You mean, apart from the fact that whilst incorporeal all of your other powers are limited to no more than your ranks in Incorporeal?

I'd say that for most characters, thats a very good incentive not to front-load.
I know this is a common houserule but has it actually been made into errata yet?
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Post by Marshal Law » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:37 am

what do you mean, houserule? Its in the book!

Last paragraph before the extras:

"You can use any power with the Ghost touch or Mental Extra whilst incorporeal, along with any powerthat requires a will saving throw and no physical attack, but the effective rank of such powers cannot exceed your incorporeal power rank
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Post by farik » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:50 am

Marshal Law wrote:what do you mean, houserule? Its in the book!

Last paragraph before the extras:

"You can use any power with the Ghost touch or Mental Extra whilst incorporeal, along with any powerthat requires a will saving throw and no physical attack, but the effective rank of such powers cannot exceed your incorporeal power rank
But that doesn't clarify about things like movement powers, growth, shrinking, super dex, amazing saves, etc. I agree attack effects are clearly described but the interaction of personal powers are less clear.
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Oh, and by the way, I don't use drawbacks in my game, just complications.

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Post by Marshal Law » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:22 am

A good point, it is somewhat ambiguous.

However, one can see from the original, unerrated ghost touch extra that any power that requires physical interaction with the world is unusable without the ghost touch extra, and is limited to existing ranks - as, in fact are non-super abilities like ordinary STR mod.

If your incorporeal attacks can't interact with corporeal armour without Ghost touch, it is not unreasonable to suppose that your incorporeal, super-tough skin cannot interact with whatever corporeal attack you would normally be vulnerable to - leaving you vulnerable unless you have paid for as many full levels of incorporeal as you have Protection.

*shrug*

Its not too great a problem to use GM judgement on, as any power that relys on interaction with the physical universe is moot anyway.
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Re: NEW QUESTON

Post by Paragon » Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:06 am

Samson wrote:Ok, as for disadvantages i says pick a physical attack...
I have a player who i s trying to pick Sorcery, Thats not legit is it/
I toom it to mean, lightning, energy blast, freeze-blasts,soonic powers, etc...


Someone help with this.
While that's specifically the intent, I don't see anything wrong with the vulnerability being magic, unless it's so rare in the campaign you just won't see it. After all, in a lot of cases you won't see sonic damage, either.
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Post by Paragon » Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:09 am

Marshal Law wrote:
Matt H wrote:I figure that will give a little more incentive to buy up what is currently a front-end loaded power.
You mean, apart from the fact that whilst incorporeal all of your other powers are limited to no more than your ranks in Incorporeal?

I'd say that for most characters, thats a very good incentive not to front-load.
All your attacks are so limited (notice the paragraph talking about it specifically references abilities with saves) but there's nothing saying your movement, sensory or defense powers are so limited. That means someone not planning to attack while Incorporeal can get enormous yield out of one rank of the power; after all it makes you largely invulnerable while just moving, and allows you to freely penetrate barriers.
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Post by Aspect » Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:44 pm

I don't have my book to check it, but from what Marshal Law posted it says what powers you can use.

So, while it doesn't specifically say that you can't use movement powers etc, it would imply that you can't because it is not on the list of powers that you are able to use.

I would house rule that you can use those types of powers but they are likewise limited to Incorporeal ranks (rather than not being able to use them at all).

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