Protection + Affects Others vs. PL-limit

[tammer]

So say Defendor has a Ranged Protection Affects Others power at the campaign's PL limit (say 10 ranks in a PL 10 campaign), and Attackor has a Dodge of +15 and a Toughness of +5.

Now Defendor wants to place his Protection power on Attackor, which would give him Dodge +15 and Toughness +10, breaking PL-limit.

How is this handled? Is it legal? If not, is there a rule ref?

Yes, I realize Deflect would be a better/cleaner way to handle this, but if someone REALLY wants to use Protection how should it be handled?

[Arthur Eld]

If someone really wants Protection with Affects Others, they can-but that doesn't mean they just get to break PL limits-that's why they're called limits. An effect like is this best used on NPCs, whose caps are determined by the GM anyway.

So if someone is trying to assassinate the president, suddenly Defendor becomes a very handy guy to have around.

[tammer]

So what you're saying is that Defendor's power can apply, but only up to the PL (as applied to the character it's being used ON, not Defendor's), right?

[Arthur Eld]

Right. Otherwise, you'd have a very broken ability. I mean, Protection 10, Affects Others Only, Burst Area could essentially increase the Defensive PL of a group of characters by 5. That's insane.

A more legal way to get a similar effect is to use Create to make barriers around your allies.

[Monolith]

I think the best way to handle something like this is as a circumstance bonus. Since characters are almost always built to pl limits there'd never be any way to ever enhance someone with the affect others protection ability if it was limited to the target's pl. By allowing it as a circumstance bonus you can increase the target's toughness by either +2 or +5. Maybe something like the hero rolls a d20 and 1-10 is +2 and 11-20 is +5. That way if the hero wants to spend a hero point he's guaranteed the 11 roll and the +5 circumstance bonus to protect someone else.

[HappyDaze]

It might be possible for Defendor to link Reduce Dodge and Reduce Parry (both with Affects Others) Linked to his granted Protection. The field protects them, but it slows them down too.

[Foreshadow]

You can use The Fantastic Four as an example, this is basically Invisible Woman and Thing or Human Torch. It depends how you build those force fields. If they are Force Constructs one idea is to make them into objects that project a dome around the attacker and build them so that the attacker can fire through the object. The object can be destroyed but it requires an action at least to get through and a sufficient attack. In a way its like creating a barrier that protects.

You can build that as an AP of a traditional Force Field with Affect others which would benefit many people, just not someone like the Thing (as I assume the PL limits would get in the way).

Or, you can have the force construct add Impervious to someone who only has Toughness +10, and say the Impervious is 16 that is granting a level of protection the other person normally doesn't have and can have unless their is some limit on Impervious only up to your Toughness, if so then it still means the person has Impervious 10 and that can be a boon.

My point is, Defensor can add some type of benefit and should be built with a couple of alternate powers to best benefit different types of people

[Kariggi]

For Create Objects as Force Field I like - Suble 2, Selective, Moveable = Invisible Force Field.

[Alex Williamson]

Do you really need selective? Or would precise be more appropriate, to make finer shapes? Or is even that necessary? I have create on a character right now - I bought it for exactly the reasons you're talking about - movable is a great option I hadn't thought of (which is silly).

[Kariggi]

I doubt if it is absolutely necessary but it is given as a suggestion in the book for just such an instance "...selectively "transparent" to attacks, blocking some while allowing others to pass through..." DCA pg93

[Belial666]

if someone REALLY wants to use Protection how should it be handled?

If you REALLY want to use Protection, you bite the bullet and use Extra Effort for a power stunt. The effects of Extra Effort ignoring any limits to Power Level, you can apply as much Protection as you want.

For example, if Hal Jordan stunts Protection 18, Affects Others, Burst Area, Distracting off his main array, he could apply it to the entire Justice League plus any bystanders as long as they remained within his range. It doesn't matter that this would raise Superman's toughness from 18 to 32 as it isn't limited by power level.

The kicker? Power Stunts last until their duration expires or the scene ends so as long as Hal Jordan keeps sustaining that mega-shield, his justice league buddies get the benefits.

[Foreshadow]

And thus the same thing with Invisible Woman and the Fantastic Four. So by 'really' we mean a player wanting it enough to spend a hero point or else suffer fatigue but it is possible and it can be worth it if used at the right time/place in the game.

[HappyDaze]

The effects of Extra Effort ignoring any limits to Power Level, you can apply as much Protection as you want.

This is not commonly allowed, despite being RAW, as it's terrible easy to break the game with it. Effectively, winning Initiative becomes the "I Win" button since you can overcome nearly anything with an effect way beyond PL at the cost of merely becoming Fatigued.

[Murkglow]

I always read the "is allowed to exceed PL" aspect to be bonuses like the Strength +1 or Increase your Power's Effect Rank by +1 aspect of Extra Effort, not a blanket "anything you do ever is exempt" so yeah that would not fly in my games.

[Belial666]

Yes, there are problems. No, there are not insurmountable. The rule is there to allow for typical comicbook heroics. If Darkseid is beating everyone up, why can't Superman power-stunt a mega-punch or two and K.O. him after giving a "world of cardboard" speech? Just expect Darkseid's new nifty armor to allow him to survive such a hit, after which he power-stunts the Agony Matrix.