Dc and the new 52

[BCDX97]

But was wondering how 'relevant" the books are to others now that DC has gone though another reboot?

Relevant enough that I'm buying my DC material through Green Ronin games these days. Someone has to actually respect the DC characters; DC gave that up.

I hate reading stuff like this. DC has a lot of great books out now. If they're not for you, fine, but please don't go around trying to rain on other people's parades.

[Cobalt]

But was wondering how 'relevant" the books are to others now that DC has gone though another reboot?

Relevant enough that I'm buying my DC material through Green Ronin games these days. Someone has to actually respect the DC characters; DC gave that up.

I hate reading stuff like this. DC has a lot of great books out now. If they're not for you, fine, but please don't go around trying to rain on other people's parades.

Both seem to be equally valid opinions. You like them, he doesn't. Freedom of speech, and all that.

That said.. I just read "Earth 2", and as a very long time fan of the JSA books and characters, I was fully prepared to hate it, but I really think I'm going to enjoy the direction they seem to be taking.

[BCDX97]

Both seem to be equally valid opinions. You like them, he doesn't. Freedom of speech, and all that.

I'm fine with him hating all the new 52 books or never reading another comic again or holding his breath until he turns blue - but to say that DC is not "respecting" the DC characters, whatever the hell that means, sounds like he's crapping on everything that DC does and anybody that enjoys it.

I wonder if people got this pissy Post-Crisis. Or in the Silver Age for Golden Age fans. It just seems ridiculous to me.

[Darrin Kelley]

The New 52 Wonder Woman is an abomination.

They promised to hire the best comics creators in the industry. Yet they hired Rob Liefeld.

[greycrusader]

I have mixed feelings concerning Azarello's Wonder Woman; while I'm heartened to see Diana acting like Wonder Woman again (and nothing like her portrayal in JLA, but that applies to all the JLA characters), I agree what was done to the Amazons is an abomination. While moving Paradise Island away from the concept of a utopia to one that exhibited some Amazonian militarism and xenophobia is all right with me, their turn to the dark side (hidden from Diana) damages the concept badly. Also, WW's origin has been made less unique.

I'm enjoying Aquaman (who was just given a new, post-Brightest Day direction, not a history retcon), some of the Bat-books (looking forward to Batman Inc coming back), liked OMAC (fun, though a little too derivative of Kirby, and a main character who was too much a cipher), Blue Beetle (on the chopping block sady, though at least Jaime Reyes is still basically the same character), and am starting to enjoy Supergirl (giving the book a second look). A few others here and there.

Still, the new DCU seems far less fun and diverse so far. Too much dark and grim storytelling, too many snarling, edgy portrayals of heroes, and a little too much change for "shock value" sake (really-the Martian Manhunter ended up pitted against the JLA, not a founding member? J'onn IS the freakin' JLA in my mind!)

The biggest problem I have is the approach to the reboot (which is NOT a "soft" reboot by any means) is I have not a clue as to most of the characters' pasts (save for those re-started from scratch) or how the shared DCU hangs together. I gave up trying to figure out comic books' ten-year sliding timescales long ago (you just have to go with it) but a five year period trying to encompass all the Bat-and GL-history almost gives me a headache (so I just blink and assume they were actually active for years longer, just in secret). In my mind, Kal was just the first public costumed superhero-which technically DC already concedes, since the Demon Knights and the Shadowpact were active for generations.

All my best.

[Unbeliever]

Grey Crusader I think summarizes the most common complaint with the reboot. At least that's what my friends who are big DC fans tell me. Also, while I love me some Jim Lee, having his artistic stamp on all the character designs does lead to a bit of a monotony in their artistic feel, not to mention a weird blast from the past (meaning the 90s).

I have kind of a separate issue that is only semi-relevant for the reboot. I just finished "Blackest Night" (yes, I know I am far behind, I don't have a ton of time to devote to these things), and I have to say that I am annoyed with how comic book writers write their "icons." I'm annoyed just in general to see Barry Allen back, as it seems to just set the clock back to the halcyon days of Geoff Johns' youth and ignore all the storytelling and evolution, some of which is quite subtle and accretive, over the past decades. He also seems to write Hal and Barry a bit ... I don't know, off. I think it might be b/c he's still a bit in awe of the characters, and therefore handling them too gingerly to tell the best stories.

[BCDX97]

The New 52 Wonder Woman is an abomination.

They promised to hire the best comics creators in the industry. Yet they hired Rob Liefeld.

I think the new Wonder Woman is great. I've really enjoyed it, especially because it's so different. An "abomination"? That's just silly. How could anybody enjoy an abomination - there are plenty of people enjoying this book.

I agree about Liefeld, I don't know why he's getting work. He's so lazy and uninspired. I think if he actually worked hard and focused on one book, with backgrounds included in his art, he might be able to make something pretty cool. But it looks like he will never do that.

[Mr Mole]

How could anybody enjoy an abomination - there are plenty of people enjoying this book.

Haven't read the book, so I have no personal stake in whether or not it's any good... But really? Regarding "how could anyone enjoy an abomination," we can start with the gladiatorial "games" of the Romans and run from there... That's not even a real question, is it?

[Darrin Kelley]

I think the new Wonder Woman is great. I've really enjoyed it, especially because it's so different. An "abomination"? That's just silly. How could anybody enjoy an abomination - there are plenty of people enjoying this book.

I am a Wonder Woman fan. I have read the series for decades.

The new origin is uninspired, and just plain out stinks. It is completely unimaginative. And evidence that the writer didn't respect the property at all.

The killing off the Amazons? Soiling their memories by making them them random rapists? No, just no.

I didn't use the term "abomination" lightly. I used it to describe the absolute hatchet-job done to the character with this "new version".

I agree about Liefeld, I don't know why he's getting work. He's so lazy and uninspired. I think if he actually worked hard and focused on one book, with backgrounds included in his art, he might be able to make something pretty cool. But it looks like he will never do that.

Liefeld gets work the same way he always has. Not on merit, but through connections. Otherwise, he really wouldn't get work at all. The fact he does just shows how bad the rot is within the comics industry.

[greycrusader]

While I don't personally care for Mr. Liefield's work, he does have fans. He clearly is imaginative, even if I think he conceives of ideas better than he executes them.

I haven't really seen any growth in his artwork over the years, if anything it has gotten even looser.

Agreed that Jim Lee's designs on every redone costume just makes the lot of them seem rather uninspired. I could do without all the seams and stitching...and only Jim Lee and George Perez really make the new costumes look good.

A few are just wrong, like Power Girl's outfit.

Regarding Wonder Woman, the new origin (demigod, child of Zeus and Hippolyta) isn't nearly as novel as the old one. Paradise Island and the Amazons have been dark and violent, almost aggresively murderous towards men. Not good at all. I can deal with the Greek Gods being petulant and capricious, because in myth they largely were just like that. Again, I like that Diana is acting like Diana again.

All my best.

[Fyrehand]

My Big issues in the new 52 is as follows:

1. Everyone is new to being a hero in the jla but not in their own books gl and the bat

2. superman is not superman anymore. He is a well meaning bully ignoring the law that he used to care so much about.
3. The disconnect between the heroes is bother some to me.

BIG LOVE
to AQUAMAN he is finally getting the writing and art he has always deserved

[Cobalt]

BIG LOVE
to AQUAMAN he is finally getting the writing and art he has always deserved

This.
+ a bazillion in my book. Best Aquaman has looked/been written in.. Well, ever.

Say what you want about Johns.. I don't care much for some of his stories, but his work on Aquaman has been outstanding.

[HenshinFanatic]

This.
+ a bazillion in my book. Best Aquaman has looked/been written in.. Well, ever.

Say what you want about Johns.. I don't care much for some of his stories, but his work on Aquaman has been outstanding.

I agree, the current Aquaman series is the only thing that caught my attention out of the "New 52" and I'm looking forward to issue 8. Though I fully expect another event will ret-con away the worst of the NuDCU such as rapist Y-chromosome-hating-to-the-point-of-cold-blooded-murder Amazons.

[Earth-Two_Kenn]

But was wondering how 'relevant" the books are to others now that DC has gone though another reboot?

Relevant enough that I'm buying my DC material through Green Ronin games these days. Someone has to actually respect the DC characters; DC gave that up.

I hate reading stuff like this. DC has a lot of great books out now. If they're not for you, fine, but please don't go around trying to rain on other people's parades.

BCDX97, I'm sorry my opinion bothers you. However, if you'll note I'm actually addressing another poster's question. He asked if the books were relevant since they don't reflect the reboot. And I answered yes. The fact is, in the past year I've spent ~$150.00 on Green Ronin's DC books (and more money on M&M books). During that same year, my comics buying has dropped to 4, then 3, then 2, then 1 comic book a month. I hadn't bought just one comic book a month in 30 years. (The one comic remaining being Aquaman.)

I'm not going to bore you trying to explain what I see missing from the entire DC Universe. We disagree, and there's nothing to gain by arguing. But I can safely say that is by using the pre-nu52 DC Universe, about $1000 has been spent by my gaming group, in the past year, on Green Ronin product. That would not have happened if they used the nu52 versions.

[Darrin Kelley]

I'm also glad that H&V Volume One and two were free from the touch of the New 52. It allows the best use of these iconic characters for a gamer.

The problem I see is coming with the Universe book. There has been mention that they may include information regarding the New 52. Which would, in my opinion, would disrupt the flow and entire presentation of the DC Adventures line.

I honestly see only bad things coming as a result of any inclusion of the New 52 in that book.