JONAH HEX/HITMAN

[gamemaster72]

I believe this was answered in another post, but....

How does Independent Aim/Accuracy work? Is this split between two targets? Can it be used against one target? Does it stack (as 8 damage) or does it require two separate saves vs. dmg 4?

I also have another question about Hitman for whoever might be familiar with his character:

The book says that he won the "grudging approval" of Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. How did he manage to do that, when they are so adamantly opposed to killing that they went after Wonder Woman for murder (after she killed Maxwell Lord)?

[FuzzyBoots]

The book says that he won the "grudging approval" of Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. How did he manage to do that, when they are so adamantly opposed to killing that they went after Wonder Woman for murder (after she killed Maxwell Lord)?

I'm assuming you mean Hitman. Tommy talked Superman out of a depression after Superman attempted to save a group of astronauts and failed to save one. Batman has a grudging respect for Tommy's skills after they fight in Arkham Asylum. Green Lantern teamed up with him to fight a sinister corporation that was trying to mind control superheroes (Kyle initially thought that Hitman had been hired to kill him, but Tommy dissuaded him by putting away his gun after catching Kyle dead to rights). Then, in the JLA crossover, Tommy managed to save the entire team, as well as humanity, by killing hordes of Bloodline-infested zombie astronauts. At the end of it, Superman specifically indicates that he disagreed with Tommy's methods, but respected his dedication to trying to do good.

[badpenny]

I believe this was answered in another post, but....

How does Independent Aim/Accuracy work? Is this split between two targets? Can it be used against one target? Does it stack (as 8 damage) or does it require two separate saves vs. dmg 4?

I would treat is just like the Split Extra since it costs the same, which would mean you could train both guns on one target for +8 damage or target two separate targets for +4 each.

Just make sure you buy two Heavy Pistols in the equipment section (16ep).

[JetstreamGW]

I believe this was answered in another post, but....

How does Independent Aim/Accuracy work? Is this split between two targets? Can it be used against one target? Does it stack (as 8 damage) or does it require two separate saves vs. dmg 4?

I would treat is just like the Split Extra since it costs the same, which would mean you could train both guns on one target for +8 damage or target two separate targets for +4 each.

Just make sure you buy two Heavy Pistols in the equipment section (16ep).

Can't do that. He'd be breaking his PL limits if you let him use a level 8 attack. They always have to be split.

[badpenny]

Can't do that. He'd be breaking his PL limits if you let him use a level 8 attack. They always have to be split.

Oops, yes, in the case of Hitman who is PL 10 with a +15 attack, he'd be limited to his single +4 attack (but two attacks per round).

If you built your own hero and met caps with a +8 damage effect (maximum +12 attack for a PL 10 character), then you could split it or combine it.

Then the question becomes could you attack the same person twice in one round with two +4 damage effects? If you can attack two different people, I don't see why you couldn't attack the same person twice....

[Murkglow]

If you can attack two different people, I don't see why you couldn't attack the same person twice....

Because the game tells you not to? Like with Linking, you're not allowed to link two damage effects even if they are weaker then your PL. "Attacking a target multiple times in the same round" is done specifically with the Multiattack extra for exactly this reason.

[badpenny]

Yeah, I guess that's why I always build the Split-attack concept to caps so you don't get into the problem of being told no, you can't shoot an individual twice but you can shoot two different people twice in the same round.

[JDRook]

Personally I prefer the mechanic of using Multiattack on a single gun's damage to represent two guns firing on the same target (or conversely doing the multiple-target spray) and losing the multiattack effect if you lose one gun. That way the PL limit isn't an issue and you still get largely the same effect of heavy damage on a single target or splitting up your shots.

The tricky part is figuring the points. If you're applying it to equipped weapons like both Hitman and Hex, I'd make the Multiattack extra an Easily Removable power and require both guns bought separately as equipment. MA on Damage 4 guns only costs 2p, which happens to be the same cost as the array slot that pseudo-Split Feature is in, so you could swap it in on both builds with no change in points.

[badpenny]

But then it's a function of the weapon and not the shooter. Lose the equipment, lose the ability.

Buy it as something inherent in the shooter, then you could always do it with some other mook's weapon when you take it off him.

That's my problem with archer builds that put Multiattack in the array. It's not the bow that does it; it's the bowman.

[JDRook]

My intent was to build the Multiattack as a power of the shooter that depends on having two weapons to use the effect (could work for paired swords and similar builds) but having only one weapon would take away the ability to multiattack, so you don't have a PC getting multiattack effects with a single-action weapon. I guess making the power itself Easily Removable may be the wrong way to go since equipment is already E-R by default. It would probably be better to buy the full Multiattack and then give it a Quirk (must wield two weapons) or even make it a complication. That would cost an entire point or two more than the examples above, but I think it'd be worth it.

[gamemaster72]

The book says that he won the "grudging approval" of Batman, Superman, and Green Lantern. How did he manage to do that, when they are so adamantly opposed to killing that they went after Wonder Woman for murder (after she killed Maxwell Lord)?

I'm assuming you mean Hitman. Tommy talked Superman out of a depression after Superman attempted to save a group of astronauts and failed to save one. Batman has a grudging respect for Tommy's skills after they fight in Arkham Asylum. Green Lantern teamed up with him to fight a sinister corporation that was trying to mind control superheroes (Kyle initially thought that Hitman had been hired to kill him, but Tommy dissuaded him by putting away his gun after catching Kyle dead to rights). Then, in the JLA crossover, Tommy managed to save the entire team, as well as humanity, by killing hordes of Bloodline-infested zombie astronauts. At the end of it, Superman specifically indicates that he disagreed with Tommy's methods, but respected his dedication to trying to do good.

Well yea, obviously I mean Hitman which is why the sentence above my question reads: "I also have another question about Hitman for whoever might be familiar with his character":


Eh... I'm still not buying it. Superman actively opposed Wonder-Woman, who was a close ally for many years after she killed Maxwell Lord, but he can respect Hitman's dedication to trying to do good? WTF? Lame...

[FuzzyBoots]

Eh... I'm still not buying it. Superman actively opposed Wonder-Woman, who was a close ally for many years after she killed Maxwell Lord, but he can respect Hitman's dedication to trying to do good? WTF? Lame...

*shrug* Different writers, really. Superman doesn't give Batman any guff for all of the people he killed back in the Golden Age. Arguably, the whole tirade against Wonder Woman is the out of place characterization here. All I can say is that, according to the comic books, they have that grudging respect for Hitman which they expressed after his death.

[gamemaster72]

Agreed! Thanks for your response/explanation of that, by the way.

MORE CHARACTER QUESTIONS HERE: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=42601&start=30#p967510

[WanderingMystic]

In my games I have always allowed a player to take a feature which allowed them to fire two pistols simultaneously as multiattack. A sub-machine gun is a PL4 ranged multi attack (cost 12 points), I dont see why a character who bought 2 heavy pistols (16 points total) should need to have more than a feature to use them as a multi attack.

[Murkglow]

The question is why did you spend 16 points on two pistols (plus a feature) when you could have just bought one equipment entry, called it "Dual Pistols" and gotten the effect for cheaper and without a questionable feature. Like so:

Dual Pistols: Damage 4, Increased Range [Ranged], Multiattack • 12ep

Of course there is a reason to buy two pistols: so that you can be disarmed of one and still have the other (with the above equipment "both" pistols would be disarmed in one action) but then it should cost you more in that case. You're getting semi-resistance to disarm attacks. Not exactly a minor advantage for an equipment based character.

If you wanted the multiattack aspect to be a part of the character instead of the equipment then I'd recommend a removable power:

Gunslinger [Easily Removeable • Requires Dual Pistols]
Add Multiattack 4 & Split to Pistol damage • 3 points

*I threw in Split there to hit the magic 5 points needed for removable and because it's a common gunslinger feat.