Dc and the new 52

[Mr Mole]

I honestly see only bad things coming as a result of any inclusion of the New 52 in that book.

I respectfully disagree. I'm not even remotely a fan of the New 52, but a few pages of flavor text showing how it fits into the bigger picture isn't going to hurt the book. It could actually help pull in potential readers who are into the New 52... Which, in all honesty, I hope goes the way of pretty much every other major revision to the DC Universe since Crisis on Infinite Earths...

[Sid]

My Big issues in the new 52 is as follows:
1. Everyone is new to being a hero in the jla but not in their own books gl and the bat

Well, they do explain that JLA is 5 years earlier, but they don't do it very well in the first issue. I believe it's the sixth issue that they explain that it's "present" day when they are much more established.

I'll admit, I bought a few comics of the new 52 not having bought a DC comic in over 20 years, so in that regards they can look at me and think that they were successful. But I've stopped buying them, so the sales bump didn't last long. I have two main problems with it:

1) It wasn't a reboot, it was only half a reboot, so it really doesn't help new comers all that much. Sure, Batman and Superman are probably a bit easier to follow, but I still found myself on Wikipedia quite a bit trying to figure out what was going on, especially the Green Lantern books.

Apparently Darkest Night still happened, but yet so much of the history of other characters were completely re-written. I'm also supposed to know who John Stewart, Guy Gardner, Kyle Rayner, and every other character is without any introduction, same with Sinestro who starts out as a Green Lantern (which I'm fine with) but after he'd already formed the Sinsetro Corps (huh?).

2) Some of the comics just weren't/aren't very good. For every Aquaman, there's Deathstroke, Catwoman or Suicide Squad which just sucked. JL was okay, although some of the characters felt so shallow and apparently you can simply walk into Apokolips. I might try and pick up Aquaman or Animalman to see if there's any interest, but nothing else even remotely held my eye.

So the combination of comics that weren't all that good and the fact that you still had to know a lot about the DC Universe to understand what is going on makes it feel like a failure to me.

[Darrin Kelley]

I respectfully disagree. I'm not even remotely a fan of the New 52, but a few pages of flavor text showing how it fits into the bigger picture isn't going to hurt the book. It could actually help pull in potential readers who are into the New 52... Which, in all honesty, I hope goes the way of pretty much every other major revision to the DC Universe since Crisis on Infinite Earths...

You also have to take into account one major factor with the DC Adventures line. The fact that Green Ronin chose to take the Iconic approach to character and setting presentation.

This means they want the most classically well known presentations of the characters and locales of the DC Universe.

The New 52 being new, isn't Iconic. Far from it, in fact.

[thaumonuclear]

If they're doing any coverage of the various crises and the eras between them, it seems appropriate to mention Flashpoint and the new 52. Also perfectly understandable if it's just too new to make the cut before the manuscript has to be finished.

Stopping to discuss how various things have strayed from the iconic representation at different times doesn't take away from those iconic representation

[Mr Mole]

If they're doing any coverage of the various crises and the eras between them, it seems appropriate to mention Flashpoint and the new 52. Also perfectly understandable if it's just too new to make the cut before the manuscript has to be finished.

Stopping to discuss how various things have strayed from the iconic representation at different times doesn't take away from those iconic representation

Totally agree.

[Doresh]

My Big issues in the new 52 is as follows:
1. Everyone is new to being a hero in the jla but not in their own books gl and the bat

Well, they do explain that JLA is 5 years earlier, but they don't do it very well in the first issue. I believe it's the sixth issue that they explain that it's "present" day when they are much more established.

This is another thing that bothers me about the reboot: All the major heroes exist in at least 3 different time periods (young, slightly-older, present day - I guess? ). Must be pretty confusing for new readers, and I fear this might easily lead into continuity errors...

And what the heck is up with all those secret organizations? It's like the dot-com bubble all over again oO !

[Darrin Kelley]

I have never been a fan of Black Ops groups in superhero comics. They are about as far being superheroic as one can get.

Black Ops, by definition, are operations that are illegal by the laws of one's own country. And usually considered illegal by international law. They are not moral or heroic acts.

Covert Operations have a different definition. Covert operations are usually actions that are secret, but still operate within the law.

As an example: The killing of Osama Bin Ladin was a legal covert operation. He and his followers had declared war on the United States. That means he was defined as an enemy combattant.

[Quistar]

My niece's boyfriend is a huge fan of the New 52 so I get to read his copies for fun. I'm limited to what he buys, but most of what he gets are what I'm into already so it's a good way for me to keep up with DC.

Like many old-time readers, I have no great love of reboots or mini-reboots. I've read comics from the time before reboots were done at all, and I've seen every one from the original Crisis on Infinite Earths up to Flashpoint now. Speaking for myself, all I can say is: "Can I please have my continuity back?" Really, it has become a bore having to readjust my continuity history to account for changes. New 52 went off the charts for me.

That said, there is a lot of good stuff coming out from DC these days. For me, the joy is in reading the comics that would otherwise work just as well without the reboot (Green Lantern, Batman, Demon Knights, Swamp Thing, etc.). The stuff that's reboot-heavy (Superman, WW, Flash, JLA, etc.) I can just ignore. This goes doubly for my DC Adventures campaign, since I can now pick and choose what "counts" for my game and what doesn't. This is a plus since the biggest problem I've had in the past running games based on DC or Marvel is continuity glitches caused by the release of new comics.

Hmmm...since Robinson's run on JLA ended with that team arbitrarily disbanding (since New 52 was coming), that means I can have my players create the new Justice League themselves...

- Andrew <:-(}

[HappyDaze]

This goes doubly for my DC Adventures campaign, since I can now pick and choose what "counts" for my game and what doesn't. This is a plus since the biggest problem I've had in the past running games based on DC or Marvel is continuity glitches caused by the release of new comics.

Never been a problem for me since there's all the alternate Earths and such in both DC and Marvel. Who knows, there might even be one that overlaps both lines...

[Darrin Kelley]

For me, the New 52 has largely been a failure for me. I'm going to start canceling titles soon.

Teen Titans is borderline unreadable.

Justice League is abysmal. Except for the Shazam backup story.

Wonder Woman is just plain terrible.

Catwoman I heard is on the chopping block. And I won't really miss it when it is gone.

[Prof.Dogg]

For me, the New 52 has largely been a failure for me. I'm going to start canceling titles soon.

Teen Titans is borderline unreadable.

Justice League is abysmal. Except for the Shazam backup story.

Wonder Woman is just plain terrible.

Catwoman I heard is on the chopping block. And I won't really miss it when it is gone.

Ditto for me. In fact, I'm dropping it cold turkey this month in the middle of some storylines because of how weird it all is. It's gone from a continuous comic universe (under the old pre-52 lines) to a "political commentary of the day". There's some good titles (Batwing and Frankenstein are still good imho) but it looks like they'll keep dropping those really good ones that I like (i.e. OMAC).

[Darrin Kelley]

I will always believe that "reboots" like this are absolutely foolish and disrespectful of the properies that are subjected to them.

Telling the public that they now have to disregard 25 or so years worth of stories is unproductive. Especially when the company keeps on selling those very stories they say no longer matter through trades! It completely spits on the legacy of DC Comics.

Reboots seldom work. Crisis On The Infinite Earths at least had a point to it. And it didn't even come close to actually succeeding at doing what the stated company intention was. It actually created more confusion than it solved.

The company does have a tool at their disposal that would actually work for them. And that is the Infinite Earths concept. What has been stopping them from simply working on developing a new Universe from scratch. A total new Earth?

They could have developed it, tested people's interest in it by releasing some experimental issues and limited series, then shifted company focus to that new Universe once it proved itself a successful enough to warrant doing so.

This gradual introduction would have been the least off-putting and confusing to readers. it wouldn't have caused a shred of continuity problems at all. And it would have left the old Universe intact, in case some future writer might want to revisit it.

It would have honored DC's legacy

[Mr Mole]

Having seen reboot after reboot from both DC and Marvel (and a few others, for that matter) for a quarter century now, this reminds me most of Marvel's Heroes Reborn attempt back in the late 1990s. It wasn't quite as extensive as the New 52 reboot, but close. That one lasted about a year... And it absolutely sucked the whole time...

I didn't like the most of the Iron Age crap of the 90s. I don't wanna relive it. Why in the name of Kirby are we regressing a decade-and-a-half to the most vile, insulting period in the 70+ year history of superhero comic books?

I don't wanna bash the people at DC who've made these decisions... I would like to believe they acted with good intentions... But it's just killing me...

NOTE: I hadn't realized until a few minutes ago just how displeased I am with the whole situation. I've been largely ignoring it. Now, actively thinking about it, it's surprisingly upsetting. I'm taking it personally. Gotta work on that.

[Furyan]

Having seen reboot after reboot from both DC and Marvel (and a few others, for that matter) for a quarter century now, this reminds me most of Marvel's Heroes Reborn attempt back in the late 1990s. It wasn't quite as extensive as the New 52 reboot, but close. That one lasted about a year... And it absolutely sucked the whole time...

I didn't like the most of the Iron Age crap of the 90s. I don't wanna relive it. Why in the name of Kirby are we regressing a decade-and-a-half to the most vile, insulting period in the 70+ year history of superhero comic books?

I don't wanna bash the people at DC who've made these decisions... I would like to believe they acted with good intentions... But it's just killing me...

NOTE: I hadn't realized until a few minutes ago just how displeased I am with the whole situation. I've been largely ignoring it. Now, actively thinking about it, it's surprisingly upsetting. I'm taking it personally. Gotta work on that.

I couldn't agree more.

The two guys who became CEO, or whatever, said this is the direction they always wanted to go with the characters but weren't allowed to until they got control of the company (or art direction, whatever position it is those two hold).

The same thing happened to the DCUO video game (one director made a game that he would enjoy and ignored the input from the players - still no super strength/physical power set ).

Since Flash and Batman are remembering Flashpoint, and GL remembers Blackest Night, they need to use these memories to kickstart another stupid global event that merges the two universe (Classic and New 52). That way they can keep the things that fans like, or that were needed for legal reasons (like finally making Captain Marvel's name Shazam to have the character's name match with what they were allowed to do for the cover title) and then get back to what 90% of their fans love.

[Tashiro]

This is probably one of the biggest problems involving the New 52 - the upper ranks are divided on how to deal with the characters, and the writers are having a hell of a time because of it.

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2012/06/breaking_dcs_new_52_might_not_have_been_completely.php