Total Concealment and Surprise Attack

[etrigan]

Another question...

If a character have the power concealment from all visual sense (rank 4) and Flight 7 subtle 2, could I assume that this character could not be located by any visual or normal hearing, and therefore never be the direct target of any attack unless someone guess it's location and attack a 5 foot square or if he have radio/mental/other hearing accurate senses?

Could I also assume that this character can do surprise attack every round on those conditions?

If this his the case, could a character with the sames powers but with the Flaw passive on concealment could do the following every round: Activate Concealment then move (fly) then surprise attack with a range attack? (of course he will be visible between his round but will benefit from surprises attacks every round)...

It's seem to me pretty much cheesy!

Thanks!

[HappyDaze]

There is Counters Concealment for Senses and unless your attack has Subtle, it's going to give away your position when you use it (until you move). Power Stunts allow for almost anything within descriptors, so just about anyone heroic can come up with a counter from time to time.

Still, the 'invisible sniper' concept is somewhat cheesy since it really forces opponents into using a fairly narrow strategy for dealing with it. Ask yourself if you'd be OK being on the receiving end of such a character regularly.

[FuzzyBoots]

In addition, Uncanny Dodge no longer requires a sense to be specified, so anyone with that Advantage won't be sneak attacked. Also, there are senses other than visual. Someone with Accurate Hearing could still place you, presumably by the sound of your breathing. Someone with Ranged Touch is even more prone to finding you.

That said, your guy would probably be unable to be detected by about 80% of the opponents he'd face. Which, in the spirit of comics, would likely result in you being targeted by people who can see you about half of the time.

[Belial666]

Which is more or less how it should happen. After all, you only paid 10 PP for your invisibility and silent flight so it makes no sense balance-wise to be untouchable.

Now, if you'd paid 90+ points for concealment to all senses plus Insubstantial 4 plus affects substantial to your attacks plus an illusion against all senses so even if someone pierced your concealment you still had a chance to remain unseen plus Hide in Plain Sight and a maxed stealth skill plus Equipment giving a bonus to your stealth skill beyond standard PL, then you could expect to be a true wraith the vast majority of the time.



You get what you pay for. Pay a little and expect the GM to find ways around your abilities a lot. Pay a lot and expect those abilities to work much more often.

[Saltcrow]

Sounds fair enough to me. It's as 'dirty' as a hero's repertoire of tricks get and Martian Manhunter pulls it off quite often with Insubstantial :p It's just that any decent villain worth their page are bound to come up with ways to counter the trick sooner or later.

Probably a very fun trick to pull off every now and then, but not something I'd rely on as a primary source of offensive boost. It's just too cheap to counter with an accurate sense countering concealment.

[Unbeliever]

I don't think Subtle 2 means that you automatically foil detection by hearing. It means your Flight is totally silent. That is, the opposite of a jet engine or a whoosh! as you go buy. But, just like a person walking quietly, you still can be heard on a successful Perception v. Stealth check. I'd go that route, especially after the first round when they know they are in combat.