Crime-Fighter: Throwing attacks

[tammer]

Playing a crime-fighter/utility-belt character in our next game, and I just wanted to make sure I had this right:

BlindSpot wants to throw a Sleep Gas Pellet (Affliction 4: Daze->Stun->Asleep;Fort; Area: Cloud) at a group of enemies:
(these are the questions )
1. She doesn't roll an attack (since it's Area: Cloud), actually she doesn't roll anything
2. Range is based on rank 4 Affliction (max 400', no penalties/range-increments, because no attack roll) - this is kinda weird, but OK
3. Anyone in the area of effect rolls Dodge with DC 14 based on rank of Affliction (again, kinda weird)
4. Anyone in the area of effect rolls Fort with a DC 14/12 (again, based on rank)
5. The degree of failure determines effect (0: None, 1: Daze, 2: Stun, 3: Asleep)
6. Anyone still in area (or that moves into it) on the next round has to roll Fort again (because Area: Cloud)

Is this all correct?
Thanks.

[badpenny]

Playing a crime-fighter/utility-belt character in our next game, and I just wanted to make sure I had this right:

BlindSpot wants to throw a Sleep Gas Pellet (Affliction 4: Daze->Stun->Asleep;Fort; Area: Cloud) at a group of enemies:
(these are the questions )
1. She doesn't roll an attack (since it's Area: Cloud), actually she doesn't roll anything

Correct

2. Range is based on rank 4 Affliction (max 400', no penalties/range-increments, because no attack roll) - this is kinda weird, but OK

Since it's thrown, I'd limit it to Short Range or rank x 25 ft = 100 ft. It feels right. While there is no targeting roll per se, the GM can have you make a Ranged Combat: Throwing check if precision matters, e.g throwing the pellet through a small hole. But if you're out in the open, then, no, you just declare where the center of the attack is and the GM goes from there.

3. Anyone in the area of effect rolls Dodge with DC 14 based on rank of Affliction (again, kinda weird)

Yes, this is them diving for cover.

4. Anyone in the area of effect rolls Fort with a DC 14/12 (again, based on rank)

If they make the above Dodge check, then they roll against half the effect ranks. So a failed Dodge check and they'd be rolling against DC 14. Making the Dodge check means they roll against DC 12.

5. The degree of failure determines effect (0: None, 1: Daze, 2: Stun, 3: Asleep)

Correct.

6. Anyone still in area (or that moves into it) on the next round has to roll Fort again (because Area: Cloud)

Correct.

[tammer]

Awesome. Thanks.
Just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing before the game started.

[saint_matthew]

Awesome. Thanks.
Just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing before the game started.

As a fellow utility belt array using dark avenger playing, the costumed adventurer is pretty counter intuitive o start with, especially given how straight forward other character types are.

[Greyman]

3. Anyone in the area of effect rolls Dodge with DC 14 based on rank of Affliction (again, kinda weird)

Yes, this is them diving for cover.

... or taking any descriptor appropriate reflexive action, like: attempting to hold their breath as gas billows out from the sleep pellet.

Also, remember that if they begin behind sizable cover, it provides a bonus to Dodging area effects equal to the penalty it imposes on ranged attacks (ie: +2 for partial cover, +5 for total cover, or avoid completely for complete cover).

[danelsan]

Under my personal house-rules, Area effects do have attack rolls but, if you don't wanna do that yet still feels the no-penalties-for-range thing is weird, you could (as a different house-rule), instead of penalties, add an equivalent bonus to the dodge roll for half-effect.

As for Badpenny's suggestion of only short range because it is thrown: personally I wouldn't force such a considerable drawback only because of a "thrown" descriptor instead of a "miniature pellet gun" or something like that. If the range is too long for a thrown pellet, get the Flat Flaw that reduces range increments (name escapes me at the moment. Diminished Range, maybe?) and save a few points for the loss of considerable range. I think that is fairer than a clear mechanical punishment for a choice of descriptor.

[WanderingMystic]

Under my personal house-rules, Area effects do have attack rolls but, if you don't wanna do that yet still feels the no-penalties-for-range thing is weird, you could (as a different house-rule), instead of penalties, add an equivalent bonus to the dodge roll for half-effect.

As for Badpenny's suggestion of only short range because it is thrown: personally I wouldn't force such a considerable drawback only because of a "thrown" descriptor instead of a "miniature pellet gun" or something like that. If the range is too long for a thrown pellet, get the Flat Flaw that reduces range increments (name escapes me at the moment. Diminished Range, maybe?) and save a few points for the loss of considerable range. I think that is fairer than a clear mechanical punishment for a choice of descriptor.

Don't forget thrown is not just a descriptor, According to the Strength profile you do not pay for the range modifier on a thrown weapon since it is a function of your strength. Instead of using the rank of the power/weapon use your strength rank to determine the distance with a -1 to -2 to the distance rank if the object is unwieldy and not balanced for throwing.

[danelsan]

Under my personal house-rules, Area effects do have attack rolls but, if you don't wanna do that yet still feels the no-penalties-for-range thing is weird, you could (as a different house-rule), instead of penalties, add an equivalent bonus to the dodge roll for half-effect.

As for Badpenny's suggestion of only short range because it is thrown: personally I wouldn't force such a considerable drawback only because of a "thrown" descriptor instead of a "miniature pellet gun" or something like that. If the range is too long for a thrown pellet, get the Flat Flaw that reduces range increments (name escapes me at the moment. Diminished Range, maybe?) and save a few points for the loss of considerable range. I think that is fairer than a clear mechanical punishment for a choice of descriptor.

Don't forget thrown is not just a descriptor, According to the Strength profile you do not pay for the range modifier on a thrown weapon since it is a function of your strength. Instead of using the rank of the power/weapon use your strength rank to determine the distance with a -1 to -2 to the distance rank if the object is unwieldy and not balanced for throwing.

Sure, not only a descriptor in general, but I think in this case it is hard to believe it to be anything else: the original post makes it quite clear that it is an Affliction 4 with a maximum range of 400, which matches the Ranged modifier. I believe in this case "thrown gas pellets" is the descriptor for the Ranged Affliction.

Also, remember that, as per the same Power Profile, using Strength to throw stuff requires two standard actions if you wanna try to hit something with it. This is the reason why pretty much every character who has some sort of thrown weapon is likely built with the Ranged extra on the effect.

[WanderingMystic]

Also, remember that, as per the same Power Profile, using Strength to throw stuff requires two standard actions if you wanna try to hit something with it. This is the reason why pretty much every character who has some sort of thrown weapon is likely built with the Ranged extra on the effect.

Where dose it say that I have been looking through the section labeled throwing and I can find it non where.

[JDRook]

Also, remember that, as per the same Power Profile, using Strength to throw stuff requires two standard actions if you wanna try to hit something with it. This is the reason why pretty much every character who has some sort of thrown weapon is likely built with the Ranged extra on the effect.

Where dose it say that I have been looking through the section labeled throwing and I can find it non where.

Yeah, this doesn't sound quite right, although I think I see the source of the confusion. If you want to grab an object in the environment (lamppost, car, thug, etc) and throw it indiscriminately away without aiming at anything, that's one attack, but if you want to throw it at something, you need to Grab (standard), hold the object (free action), and then throw as an Attack (standard). danelsan is describing using a pre-built Ranged Damage power that uses "thrown" as a descriptor instead of just throwing things as combat actions.

[WanderingMystic]

Yeah, this doesn't sound quite right, although I think I see the source of the confusion. If you want to grab an object in the environment (lamppost, car, thug, etc) and throw it indiscriminately away without aiming at anything, that's one attack, but if you want to throw it at something, you need to Grab (standard), hold the object (free action), and then throw as an Attack (standard). danelsan is describing using a pre-built Ranged Damage power that uses "thrown" as a descriptor instead of just throwing things as combat actions.

That makes a lot more sense, I was thinking along the terms of the thrown weapons in the book which do not pay for the range modifiers, like knives, bolas, javelins since it is built into strength and can be readied as a free action if you have quick draw.

[JDRook]

Strictly speaking, thrown weapons that are your equipment are also "purchased powers" whereas danelsan was referring to more improvised attacks

[Kariggi]

I thought grabbing "things" was a move action and grabbing "folks" a standard action?

[JDRook]

Yeah, that's right. I got stuck in terms of throwing opponents into each other.

Picking up something that doesn't resist should only be a move action. Objects that are attached to the ground might "realistically" require that you break them away, which sort of looks like an attack, but in keeping with genre a GM could allow the break to be part of the move, particularly if the PC is strong enough to break it as a routine action.

If you want to figure out the routine break point, there's DC15+s and 2nd degrees in there, but at the end of the equation, if your Damage effect is equal to or greater than the object's Toughness, a routine action should break it free.

[tammer]

Good read. Thanks all.

FYI - I took Quick Draw to cover drawing different things from her utility belt turn-to-turn.
I also talked to my GM and we agreed to house-rule a throw range for her based solely on her Str (2, for now), so 120' for all her attacks (grenades, gas pellets, knives, etc.) She's a close-in fighter, so I'm happier just having one standard range to work with all the time (that's shorter than some ranges would be, but longer for a few) than having to track different range(increments) for all her different gadgets. I figure if I REALLY need a longer range I can negotiate it with the GM on-the-fly, or just use Extra Effort.

Also helps that she has a power ring that gives her Teleport 4