Illusion as Morph?

[tulmkohr]

Attempting to build a power that acts as morph, but allows some people to perceive the character as he really is, and others as someone else. It looks like the only way to do this is by selective illusion.
1) The book warns against doing this, what would the problem be (I'm assuming making a successful insight roll would not cause the illusion to vanish, just allow you to know it was an illusion)?
2) An illusion that could only act like a morph should have a Quirk flaw, opinions as to the value please?

[badpenny]

I always think Effect first, power second.

So if it looks like Morph, and acts like Morph...why not go with Morph (and apply the Illusion descriptor)?

[Greyman]

Apply the Resistible by Will flaw.

[JDRook]

So what you want is a way to disguise your character that allows "some people" to see who you really are.

badpenny's right in that Morph (with an Illusion descriptor) is the simplest way. Keep in mind that Illusion can be overcome by an Insight Check vs DC10 + Illusion rank, while Morph requires a Perception Check vs DC10 + 20 for Morph Disguise + any Deception rank your PC already has, so Morph is much harder to overcome. It's possible to do with Illusion, but without knowing anything else about your character, it is likely that bending Illusion to act like Morph would be more complicated and less effective than Morph.

The "some people" definition will define the rest of it. If by some people you mean only people your PC specifically wants to be affected by the Morph, and it is otherwise completely effective, then it would be reasonable to put Selective on Morph (most Extras can apply to most Effects, they just don't list them all every time; it's more to make specific points about use). If by some people you mean anyone mentally strong enough to overcome the illusion of the Morph, Greyman's Resistible by Will would work. If some people means people who can see through Illusions (specifically using the Counters Concealment Sense effect), you could make that a Quirk or Limit, depending on how often it would occur in your game setting.

In short, I'm guessing what you want is:

Morph X, Selective (Descriptor: Illusion) - 6p per rank.

It's a little expensive, especially if you want a wide range of forms, but it will do what you describe better than anything else.

[tulmkohr]

The big problem with my previous post was that I tried to keep things simple by not adding that the power was to be used with INVISIBILITY to in effect make invisibility selective (bypassing the fact that invisibility isn't resistible). This would make my first question not be answered by morph (it wouldn't be visible), and make more sense out of my second question (the illusion could only be used to mimic the actions of the character, although it could also be used as selective speech).

[badpenny]

The big problem with my previous post was that I tried to keep things simple by not adding that the power was to be used with INVISIBILITY to in effect make invisibility selective (bypassing the fact that invisibility isn't resistible). This would make my first question not be answered by morph (it wouldn't be visible), and make more sense out of my second question (the illusion could only be used to mimic the actions of the character, although it could also be used as selective speech).

I don't really understand this. But perhaps if I break it down, we might get closer to what you're after.

Illusion, Invisibility (Concealment), and Morph are three separate powers with very different effects. (I don't know what "selective speech" has to do with any of this.)

Start with the EFFECT that you want to create.

If the character can't be seen (whether Resistible or not), go with Concealment.

If you want to make other people sense things that are not there, go with Illusion.

If you want to change your appearance (but still be visible) go with Morph.

Concealment (Invisibility) can be made Resistible (say by Will). Anyone making the Will check would see you. If you make it Selective, then you choose who sees you and who does not. If you make it Selective and not Resistible, then only those who you allow to see you will, and those without special Senses, have no chance of perceiving you.

Illusion and Morph cannot make you invisible as per their power effects. But as a Descriptor, you could, for example, always say that your Concealment has an Illusion descriptor.

[tulmkohr]

What I was trying to do was create a power that allowed a character to choose who could see them or hear them speak.
Invis/concealment+resistible+selective would be cheap and easy, but not dependable enough.
Invis/concealment (no extras or flaws) usable at the same time as an audible and visual selective illusion (with a severe quirk that it is located where the character is, is of the character, and is roughly doing what the character is doing), is more dependable, because even if you don't believe the illusion, you still see and hear it (you just have more accurate ideas why other people don't seem too), while other people see nothing, and don't hear speech (unless the character actually speaks instead of having his illusion speak).

[kenseido]

I would go with Concealment, Selective and leave off the resistable.

[JDRook]

It seems like you just need Selective Concealment, Visual and Auditory, which is pretty close to your first suggestion on the list, minus the Resistible, which I assume is the troubling part.

Concealment (Visual, Auditory), Selective - 18p

This would let you be invisible and inaudible to everyone unless you specifically want them to see or hear you, with no resistance check of any kind.* This would include any sense from those two sense types, so you'd be undetectable by infared or sonar as well. If you wanted to keep it to normal sight and hearing, the cost would only be 9p. In either case your PC would still have a scent and could be touched if approached, and could also be tracked.


*strictly speaking, non-resistible effects use the Precise modifier for selectivity, but what you're suggesting strikes me as quite powerful and should probably be a full Extra instead of 1p. YMMV with different GMs, but generally it's better to err on the side of more points, and if a GM says Precise will work, I'm sure you can come up with something to do with the extra points.

[Murkglow]

I agree Selective seems more appropriate then Precise which seems like it has more to do with how exactly you're concealed (ie you can conceal your body but leave your head visible) and less a matter of picking who can and cannot see you (strictly speaking I don't know if any extra does this but lets assume we have to be able to for the sake of this discussion). Of course either way it's not a big difference in cost but that's just how it is.

[tulmkohr]

As far as powers to use instead, I have 2 usable answers, one not very reliable, and the other requires a permissive GM.
One question I asked that was not yet answered, was any problems with proceeding with invisibility+selective illusion. I would be worried about anything this set up fails to do. I am aware that it is (using the official errata) probably too expensive for it's effect (the invisibility costs 8, a rank of audio-visual illusion, selective, but reduced from perception to close in range, would cost 2 points, and you would need at least 7 ranks for a large enough volume to allow for an illusion of a man fighting [less with restricted actions],minus 2 or 3, depending on the value of the quirk, for a total cost of 19-20).

[kenseido]

I don't see why you would want to do it that way. Selective Illusion isn't any better or worse than Selective Concealment.

[Murkglow]

Generally speaking I am against useing one power (in this case Illusion) to replace another power that there is a clear method of creating (in this case Invisibility = Concealment or Changing Identity = Morph). That's just me though.

[badpenny]

Generally speaking I am against useing one power (in this case Illusion) to replace another power that there is a clear method of creating (in this case Invisibility = Concealment or Changing Identity = Morph). That's just me though.

I'm with you. Go with the effect. Especially if it leads to a cleaner (and more straightforward) build.