The weight of creation - Created object mass

[EPIC]

Here's a question. I'm not really sure if it's been brought up, any search brought up mostly things regarding weight support, but;

How much does a created object weigh? Can it vary between the creator of the object and anyone else?

For example... I want to create an object of solid energy say. The create power being used does not have moveable and is close range, so the object must be created extending from the body.

Energy has insignificant mass for the purposes of weight, but when turned solid? I mean, after all these are comic book physics, so such things are subjective.

What I guess I am trying to ask is, if i were to create a power of creating energy constructs without moveable, would it be reasonable to create such objects that are of insignificamy weight for myself, but have weight for anyone else? Or something to that effect.

I'd like to hear other takes on how people manage the weight of created objects.. after all.. if someone has permanent create lead... obviously you have to account the weight of lead, but when create is being used for energy constructs...

[Murkglow]

Created Objects are "assumed" to have a mass rank equal to their volume rank (it says this on the last line of the third paragraph). If you want to be able to move it easily then I would recommend the Moveable extra (or Tether if your Strength is high enough). If you want to make it extra hard for your enemies to move (especially if you're creating a smaller object) then the Stationary extra comes to mind.

[EPIC]

But that doesn't make a lot of a sense... certainly if you filled up the entire vilume with a solid object... but what if it were hollowed for instance as though encasing someone?

[Murkglow]

If it's hollow then it's not taking up its full volume either so naturally it would weight less.

[EPIC]

Aaahhhh.... i can see that getting mighty confusing... but also see some potential shinanigans with playing around with that.

[JDRook]

If it's hollow then it's not taking up its full volume either so naturally it would weight less.

There is no "naturally" when it comes to comic-book physics. The object could be denser, having more mass in less volume, so you could have a heavier "shell" that weighs a lot (ideal for use as a Created Trap), but not more than the Create rank.

It would depend on the descriptor and how strict your GM is, but there could be some leeway to change the mass of what you create, or it might be a Feature or an aspect of Precise or even a full Extra if a GM feels that Created Object mass manipulation will affect the balance of the power.

[Murkglow]

I'm not talking about comic-book physics, just what the books says.
The book says the mass = the volume so "naturally" less volume = less mass, seems simple enough.

[JDRook]

I'm not talking about comic-book physics, just what the books says.
The book says the mass = the volume so "naturally" less volume = less mass, seems simple enough.

It's only that simple if you never apply a descriptor to the Create Effect. The OP was suggesting Energy as a descriptor and making it "solid", which is very much in the realm of comic-book physics.* For an effect to go from massless to massed like the OP is describing, you might want a Feature or an Extra, especially if it can be varied at will.

Also, the game definition of volume gets less clear when you start talking about hollowed objects. Create 10 could make a solid cube of ice about 10' high, or an iron cage of about the same weight and dimensions that could trap a target. The cage technically has less volume because it is hollow, but for game purposes it would be the same size as the ice cube, as well as the same mass and the same Toughness. The simple explanation is that iron is heavier (denser) than ice, which is common sense and doesn't require a lot of research and math in a game. You could apply this same "game logic" with a cage made of "super-ice" where the ice is heavier and denser than regular ice, making the bars as tough as iron. This works with energy or earth or ectoplasm or whatever crazy thing you use to describe your Create Effect.

TL;DR
Using mass rank = volume rank = toughness rank is an excellent guideline to generally keep things simple, but it does start falling apart rapidly if you try to apply too much reality to it, so I recommend avoiding that.


*or really advanced physics that has no place in a superhero RPG

[EPIC]

I ended up just making Create moveable to simulate the objects being weightless to the character, but weighted to anyone else.

[prufock]

Create becomes really confusing when you start making things of non-standard shapes and trying to figure out the volume. It can also be problematic when you start creating things that are very small on one or two dimensions. At rank 10, you can form up to 1000 cubic feet of material.

"If I make this platform only 1 mm thick, how large an area can it cover?" (answer: about 300,000 square feet, or approximately 550x550).

"How long a piece of wire can I make with Create 10?" (answer: depends on the gauge; at 50 SWG, for instance, it's over 2000 miles).

In some cases you have to use your better judgment!

[Ryan M. Danks]

We had a GL influenced character in a game I played a few months ago. This issue came up when he created a catapult on a bridge that was already weakened. He argued that since it was essentially a "psionic creation" there was no mass at all.

I don't know how GL rings treat it, to be honest, but we decided that mass would be equal to the object being created as it would normally weigh or equal to the volume of the power, whichever made more sense for the scene.

[prufock]

We had a GL influenced character in a game I played a few months ago. This issue came up when he created a catapult on a bridge that was already weakened. He argued that since it was essentially a "psionic creation" there was no mass at all.

I don't know how GL rings treat it, to be honest, but we decided that mass would be equal to the object being created as it would normally weigh or equal to the volume of the power, whichever made more sense for the scene.

That sounds right to me, unless he has Stationary, Tether, or Moveable on his Create power. Those would allow the created object to be held on the bridge without applying any weight to it.