So Manhunters and the Anti-Monitor?

[darkwintre]

Just wondering whether these will be addressed in either of the heroes and villains books or perhaps in the universe book that will be released later this year?

SDCC 2012 Trailer

Preview of well I suggest you see for yourselves!

[Arthur Eld]

The manhunters are in H&V 2, and the monitor and AM are given a sidebar suggesting they be treated as plot device characters.

[greycrusader]

A bit more detail on the android Manhunters is likely to pop up in the Atlas, and the various Monitors as well, so long as space limits permit.

[Foreshadow]

After looking into the scale of the Measurement chart there is little reason to go beyond 30 as a base even for upper cosmic types. So when you see Monitor, Anti-Monitor, Galactus, and all manner of others in between (like Lords of Chaos or Law), they have stats that fall largely from 20 to 30.

I say that based on the soft cap I have seen and the way characters have been stated. One major way to help determine the stats is to go by the DC you wish to achieve. Since DC 40 is 'near impossible' and one assumes 45 would represent ímpossible' results (though if I had made the chart it would have been designed so that 50 were impossible, but as it stands as written 45 is the number)

Knowing that, you have characters like Mr. Myx or Impossible Man who can routinely warp reality, that is ímpossible normally, but if we state that doing so is simply achieving ímpossible results on a DC check, whereas ''near impossible' would be inventing time machines and whatnot. Then 25 + 15 = 40, and a +25 bonus can do that. Seeing the stats then extend from 20 to 25 would be for most cosmic types. Galactus for example, if he had a 24 Power Cosmic would be able to function like you see in the comics and still be clearly one step (+5) above even someone like Superman. Above that might be truly cosmic powers like Death or Eternity but you could place them somewhere between 26 to 30. You could just go with 30 as a 'soft cap' and thus place the beyonder, if not at 30, place him clearly above even those cosmic types at 35 to 40, so 35 probably works. Yet, I would tink if someone has +30 +15 = 45 you can do 'near impossible' before you even roll, and say 10 is a routine check, you'll achieve a DC 50 by simply getting an Easy result.

To me, using the DC then helps determine these high end characters. I have a modified chart so that 'impossible' = DC 50 and the chart starts at DC 5 (since 0 is now Automatic, since you don't really roll), but I didn't design the D20 structure itself

[pawsplay]

I'm pretty sure the AM needs a Toughness score, since Superman punched him.

[danelsan]

I feel that things like warping reality, assuming you are not just going by GM fiat, is more a question of effects, not necessarily reaching some "impossible" DC. After all, they are rolling what against that DC to alter reality?

Turning a building into ice cream? Just a big Transform effect, no DC involved.

Populating an entire world via creation ex nihilo? Massively costly Summon effect, no DC involved.

Mind controlling everyone in the galaxy? Affliction with an enormous area, needs to beat everyone's Will save, not necessarily reach a magical number that determines how to do the impossible.

Making appear a statue of yourself that goes from earth to Alpha-Centauri? Truly ridiculous ranks of Create, DC doesn't matter (though if you wanna keep within PL 30, a lot of ranks will need the Limited flaw to not include the aspects of Create that interact with PL).

A time machine is hardly a DC 45 test either. A high-end time machine could be, say, Movement 5 [Time Travel 3, Dimensional Travel 2 (alternative timelines)], Increased Mass 10, for a total DC of 30

Basically, the way I see it, beings like Impossible Man (if not run by the GM as "he just does it, here is a Hero Point for your troubles") would have an astoundingly expensive amount of Variable power (with the Broad extra, since they have no thematic limitation).

[Batgirl III]

If I may paraphrase, Jim Kirk, "Why does God need a stat block?"

Certain characters from comics or mythology, like the Anti-Monitor, Galactus, Jörmungandr, or Yamata no Orochi are ultimately a unstatable... or at least, not wholly statable. You can design his physical form, so that Superman can punch him in `em the gob, in fine four-color tradition, but much of their power is going to need to be handwaved by the GM.

Let's face it the core schtick of the Anti-Montitor is that it destroyed a nigh-infinite number of realities... and it did so with relative ease. What's the Damage code for that? How many ranks of Impervious Toughness do I need to assign to existence itself?

[pawsplay]

I posit that's not something the Anti-Monitor can do on a whim, or Superman wouldn't even get a chance to punch him.

[TristanH]

I posit that's not something the Anti-Monitor can do on a whim, or Superman wouldn't even get a chance to punch him.

That, and Supergirl nearly killed him in combat. Also, he built machines to destroy the multiverse. That and shadow demons.

[Darrin Kelley]

I still miss the Pre-Crisis Earth One Supergirl. Her death ranks still as one of the most shocking and moving moments I have ever read in comics.

[Quistar]

I ran Time of Crisis a few months ago, updated to 3e and converted over to the DCU. It was one hell of a task, with a LOT of statblocking on Herolab. But I digress...

For the Anti-Monitor (who took the place of the Big Bad Guy, not named for spoilers but an easy guess for Freedomverse fans), I just used the BBG's 2e stats from the adventure, minorly modified for my use. I mishandled the Doodad conversion and gave the heroes too easy a victory, but overall the stats did what I wanted them to, which is challenge the PCs.

In any case, the BBG's PL 19ish stat blocks worked fine for a "weakened" Anti-Monitor for my purposes.

- Andrew <:-(}

[AdvocateJack]

PLX isn't really unlimited power that can go everything and anything all the time. It's vast power whose limits and confines are the necessities of story and plot. Hence the PLX on guys like Anti-Monitor, who can get punched by Superman, and Monitor who ends up getting betrayed and killed by a significantly less powerful character.