Mooks and Minions

[Batgirl III]

It's also important to remember to match your "Mooks" with your Heroes. Consider the dime-a-dozen vampire minions of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, although Buffy generally killed two or three an episode, they were fairly even with her in terms of damage output (slayers and vamps are roughly on par in strength) and endurance (slayers are tough, vamps are tougher, but the slayer has better defense). They're a credible source of threat to the Slayer, but not one she's going to really worry about. Those same vampire mooks would devastate regular human cops... but wouldn't worry any given X-Man or Titan except in large numbers. Superman would laugh, if he wasn't such a nice guy. On the flip side, the sorts of things Superman and his peers consider "Mooks," are things like Parademons and Daleks. A single one of which would wipe the floor with the Slayer and all her allies.

[Arthur Eld]

Well, depending on the build (your Buffy is PL 9), the Slayer could take a few Parademons (they're only PL 6). Course they can fly and blast, two things they can't do, so a squad of them would still be a bit much for her.

Considering they tend to show up in droves, that makes plenty of sense.

And in discussing mooks in general, the given stats are usually for 'average' examples of that mook type. Using Parademons as an example, the given build is PL 6, but the Parademon in Secret Six was probably more like PL 8, or maybe 9.

[heathwilder]

Aid another is a good one. Also advantages can make them a threat such as Team Work to use Startle (or having the boss use it). A team up of grab, trip or what have you is true Mook style, and they shouldn't be winners just threats (like the OP is trying to do).

A great use of Mooks however is to allow street level heroes (Batman, Robin, Green Arrow etc) to use takedown and their equipment (like gas pellets and bolas) which is nigh useless in a supers fight. Lets them use the advantages that they paid good PP for. Also they are integral to the BBEG using Interpose.

Just a note on Batman in his own book and in JLA books. In the JLA his role is as a Controller (for want of a better term) and he constantly uses Advantages to Setup the enemy for his pals. He's great at it but if a player wants to play Batman as Superman in a cosmic game then I think that's like a D&D game where you want your wizard to do melee combat. Overly simplistic metaphor I know but you see my point; play to your strengths.

Back on topic and onto rules massaging - in my home game I often use Mooks as a swarm. I usually clump them and after they do their shtick they get boring. So with area effect attacks I get them to save as one unit - fail and they're out - but my players have a few cone and area attacks so that feels right. Taking them out one at a time will reduce their teamup ability by attrition, but using a HP for Takedown (if they don't have it already) is the money shot here.

As a parting shot I recommend reading Fistful of Nazis thread here http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37337

[pawsplay]

If the thugs work in pairs, using the Aid action and making accurate attacks, they can actually hit Batman. In very few depictions, in very few situations, does Batman actually have a reason to fear one or two thugs. If you think it's a waste of time to roll, don't; just let Batman's player describes how he harms the thugs and move on. PL10 Batman would find the thugs fairly credible.

The Joker's gang aren't random thugs. They are a mix of mental patients (who probably use the Thug stats) and career sociopaths (who are probably more like the Soldier or Militant).

[danelsan]

If your PL 2 mooks have no chance of hitting Robin, you are not using enough maneuvers.

Get 10 Thugs at PL 2.

Have all of them perform Aim on one round. Next round, have 5 of them perform a Team Attack using Unarmed, while another 5 perform Aid for the Team Attack. Due to the +5 bonus from the earlier Aim, you are pretty sure to end up with a Team attack receiving +5 Attack and +5 Damage, for an effective PL 7 attack, which is pretty good for some mooks against a PL8 hero.

After Robin knocks out a few of them, they'll probably end up reduced to getting +2 bonuses from Aid and team Attack, for a PL 4 attack, which is considerably less threatening, but not completely inconsequential, especially if robin already took some Toughness penalties from the PL 7 attacks earlier.

Robin will still likely win, but can very well have to face the actual villain carrying a number of bruises from fighting all the mooks, and a stroke of bad luck could get Robin knocked out by the Minions.

Hell, get a single PL 4 Crime Lord with 20 Thugs. Half the thugs go for the Aid/Team Attack setup with the Crime Lord, while the other 10 provide Aid to his defense, and he can get to effective PL around 9 for a while, which can be a considerable problem even for a more reasonable PL 10 Batman, especially if the Crime Lord is not a Minion.

A similar setup can put a PL 8 to 10 Joker temporally higher than the the PL 12 Batman of the Justice League. Good thing he has Robin along and gas pellets to clean the mooks quickly, or he would be in severe trouble