The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Voltron64
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:55 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
Voltron64 wrote: Alright, hopefully we're gonna see Luthor on intergalactic trial soon? :twisted:
Given his collaboration with Darkseid, association with numerous intergalactic terrorists, and other actions -- he'd actually be found guilty on numerous counts.

Someone should really bring him to the Shi'ar for Crimes against Sapience.
I think Lex Luthor would find Intergalactic Court to well above the typical trials he faced. :twisted:

Plus, what do you think of some Sentinels evolving beyond and questioning their original programming? (In short, the Sentinels experience a Technological Singularity.)
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:58 pm

Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:22 pm

Voltron64 wrote:I think Lex Luthor would find Intergalactic Court to well above the typical trials he faced. :twisted:

Plus, what do you think of some Sentinels evolving beyond and questioning their original programming? (In short, the Sentinels experience a Technological Singularity.)
Amusingly, the first Nimrod (not the one merged with Darkseid but his predecessor) was advanced enough to eventually move beyond its programming and protect mutants. Sadly, it was destroyed before it could contact its fellows in the future.

Likewise, the attempt to turn humans into Sentinels exposed their collective to ideas beyond just hating mutants.

It'd be interesting if the Sentinels were exposed to the mind of someone like the Vision or Red Tornado. Then things will get REALLY awkward as that will mean there will be an entirely NEW race of sentient beings competing for Earth's future.

Unfortunately, the most likely being to contact the Sentinels would be Ultron and he's likely to modify their program only SLIGHTLY.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:48 pm

Apocalypse

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En Sabah Nu was born in a region of present-day Khandaq called Akkaba. He displayed his mutant powers from birth and was left by his tribe to die, his inhuman appearance terrifying them. En Sabah Nu's powers allowed him to live long enough for a rival tribe called the Sandstormers to find him, though, where he was raised by their leader Baal.
It is believed by many En Sabah Nu was the "First Mutant" but this is incorrect. Apocalypse is a "mere" 5,000 years old while Hyborean Age mutant Selene is 13,000. Likewise, the Atlanteans were born from a mutant offshoot of humanity. This isn't even beginning to address the fact the Inhumans have a history dating in the millions.

The "true" first mutant is probably Moon Boy, a homo erectus ancestor of virtually the entire human race. Another possibility is Vandal Savage, whose latent mutant genes may have been triggered by the meteorite he encountered. If so, that would make his tireless efforts against the mutant race doubly ironic.

Despite this, Apocalypse often claims to be the "creator" of the mutant race and its ancestor--a bald faced lie.
En Sabah Nu would eventually receive training from Rama-Tut, the past incarnation of Kang the Conqueror and helped drive that figure out of the past. This would result in him taking the name Apocalypse. Apocalypse would later duel with Black Adam during said figure's heroic phase. Imbued with the power of the Egyptian gods, Black Adam drove the Akkaba clan from Egypt and ended Apocalypse's tyrannical rule of the region.
Roughly akin to this period in RL. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos
Apocalypse would also do battle with the first incarnations of Hawkman, Metamorpho, and the Blue Beetle. All these individuals found Apocalypse to be too formidable to defeat, despite Black Adam's success against him. These encounters caused Apocalypse to abandon his clan, however, determining them to be too weak to serve. Likewise, he hoped to find more of his kind.

Apocalypse eventually discovered the mutant Eternals, those blessed with immortality as part of their gift, and one lead him to a crashed alien ship. This vessel was a "seed ship" of the Celestials and it was here that Apocalypse encountered the ancient race. The Celestials were impressed with Apocalypse's Darwinist ideals and enhanced his mutation to the "Level 5" capacity, giving Apocalypse the power to regenerate from anything but complete destruction, super-strength near Kryptonian levels, and the ability to manipulate energy to a great level.
Apocalypse was notably NOT made into an Omega-level mutant like Jean Grey, Iceman, Nathan Grey, Chamber, or others. Apocalypse is deeply aware of this "snub" and it has driven him to strike at figures like them in complete contradiction to his philosophy. They are fully capable of killing Apocalypse as a result, his Celestial technology not protecting him from their power.

Mister Sinister and a few others are aware of this "weakness" and seek to exploit it.
The price for this enhancement would be Apocalypse continually encouraging racial warfare, technological enhancement, and genetic arms races amongst Earth's various ethnic groups. Apocalypse adopted elements from the then-new Christian religion's end-of-times prophecies and proceeded to wage war against what he perceived as "human weakness."

The travels of Apocalypse would result in him in leaving destruction and death wherever he went. He would encounter Vandal Savage during this time and assist the ancient cave man in assuming power over countless civilizations, always leading them to wars of conquest that shattered civilizations. Gods like Vishnu, Thor, and Hercules would battle Apocalypse during this time as would the Amazons. Merlin the Magician and other heroes would invoke great powers to defeat Apocalypse, even if they could not defeat him but for a time.

Apocalypse would eventually influence the early Darwinist movement and transform fringe scientist Nathaniel Essex into the hateful Mister Sinister. His early plans to create a mutant empire were thwarted by Dracula, of all people, who transformed the majority of his 19th century mutant army into vampires. Vampires, being sterile corpses, were useless for Apocalypse's purposes and he destroyed them all.

Apocalypse would sleep through much of the early 20th century, missing out on a chance to influence WW2 (though some stories tell of the Red Skull attempting to revive him from a tomb n Egypt--only to be thwarted by the Justice Society). In the end, he only returned when he sensed the rising power of Magneto and Professor Xavier. Unfortunately, the past 30 years have been a miserable failure for Apocalypse and his ambitions.

At heart, Apocalypse is a bully and he approves of "strength above all" only when he's the strongest. The X-men have continually defeated him and his plans despite his "superiority" due to their ability to work together. Likewise, he's suffered hands at the Avengers and Justice League with individuals like the Martian Manhunter, Superman, and the Green Lanterns capable of defeating him. These events have rattled his confidence tremendously and the fact he's "died" a couple of times means he's less likely to go after them directly.

It doesn't help Apocalypse's understanding of evolution is rather outdated as well. After all, beings working together to be stronger than the individual is one of the most basic elements of evolution. It's also anthetical to a dictator like Apocalypse who only knows about relationships through the context of master and slave.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:57 pm

So why does Vandal Savage despise mutants? An inferiority complex over his cro-magnon status?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:00 pm

Voltron64 wrote:So why does Vandal Savage despise mutants? An inferiority complex over his cro-magnon status?
Vandal Savage doesn't despise mutants at all. He has the imminently sensible belief that they're powerful and it's better to kill off anyone who has the potential to endanger him. That's the reason he supports ignorance and hatred across the globe. When the X-men discovered this explanation, they were suitably appalled.

It resulted in Charles Xavier breaking his code against altering human minds just to blast him for it. Vandal spent a year whistling showtunes in a straight jacket as a result.

:twisted:

Oh and another thing about Apocalypse. He has an especial hatred of Superman since he represents everything he despises. Superman is a god who acts like a mortal. Worse, one who chooses to befriend mortals and even mate with them rather than a fellow superior being.

Amusingly, this conflict has brought Lex Luthor into battle against Apocalypse as a result. Apocalypse had a Villainous Breakdown as a result of Luthor defeating him and still hasn't yet fully parsed it as a result. Batman, likewise, is one of the few mortals capable of showing Apocalypse homo sapiens aren't entirely done either.

(It was Batman who blew up Apocalypse's original Celestial ship, after defeating his Dark Riders single-handedly, driving Apocalypse into incoherent Angrish)

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:07 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
Voltron64 wrote:So why does Vandal Savage despise mutants? An inferiority complex over his cro-magnon status?
Vandal Savage doesn't despise mutants at all. He has the imminently sensible belief that they're powerful and it's better to kill off anyone who has the potential to endanger him. That's the reason he supports ignorance and hatred across the globe. When the X-men discovered this explanation, they were suitably appalled.

It resulted in Charles Xavier breaking his code against altering human minds just to blast him for it. Vandal spent a year whistling showtunes in a straight jacket as a result.

:twisted:
Somebody better try a Engineered Public Confession on Savage the next time he admits that. :wink:
Oh and another thing about Apocalypse. He has an especial hatred of Superman since he represents everything he despises. Superman is a god who acts like a mortal. Worse, one who chooses to befriend mortals and even mate with them rather than a fellow superior being.

Amusingly, this conflict has brought Lex Luthor into battle against Apocalypse as a result. Apocalypse had a Villainous Breakdown as a result of Luthor defeating him and still hasn't yet fully parsed it as a result. Batman, likewise, is one of the few mortals capable of showing Apocalypse homo sapiens aren't entirely done either.
Just to be clear, how many of the setting's villains with massive inferiority complexes can you name in here?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:12 pm

Just to be clear, how many of the setting's villains with massive inferiority complexes can you name in here?
Oh it'd be too long to list. Spiderman has managed to INDUCE it in about half his foes.

:mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:36 pm

Avengers vs. X-men vs. Justice League

The galaxy is, bluntly, a mess.

The Annihilation Wave, Operation: Galactic Storm, Ultron Crisis, War of Kings, Sinestro Corps, Rann-Thanagar War, and other conflicts have left the major universal powers exhausted. For a comparison, imagine Europe after the first two World Wars and assume there's no Marshall Plan.

The arrival of the Phoenix after its presumed destruction was an event that proposed either salvation or destruction to the universe. The Phoenix devoured dozens of uninhabited worlds rebuilding its power but people still remembered its heinous annihilation of a populated Shi'ar satrapy.

Really, it came as no surprise when the Phoenix made a b-line to the planet Earth. As the place empires went to die, the reaction was mostly whether the Phoenix would end up destroyed or somehow bestow even more benefits on the Earth. Few powers seriously believed the world which had defeated Galactus and Darkseid both would end up destroyed.

Though many hoped.

What no one expected was the arrival of the Phoenix would split the Earth's heroes down the middle. Captain America, attempting to reconcile his position as head of SHIELD with his status as the idealogical head of New York's heroes, believed the Phoenix needed to be contained. Cyclops, acting from emotion rather than logic, believed the Phoenix had come to solve all of their problems.

The reaction of the Justice League was equally split. Superman and Wonder Woman believed the Phoenix should be contacted to discern its motivations. Hal Jordan, perhaps remembering his own actions under the influence of Parallax, believed the creature should be contained or driven away. Batman, himself, gave confusing reactions given he was simultaneously protective of Hope and believed the Phoenix to be an entity that deserved punishment.

Ultimately, Captain America's ill-informed decision to strong-arm the X-men on Utopia resulted in a second civil war being triggered amongst Earth's heroes. This time, however, the Justice League became involved as it attempted to diffuse the situation. Yes, to clarify, the Justice League believed the X-men and Avengers should stop fighting because they attempted to fight both.

Oiye.

Matters became exceptionally complicated when Tony Stark divided the Phoenix across a number of the X-men. Empowered with power dwarfing the most godlike of the Justice League, the heroes of the world were utterly helpless to stop them as they began a well-intentioned rampage across the globe. Not even the Green Lantern rings were capable of defeating the Phoenix-empowered mutants.

Both positive and negative effects resulted as millions of mutants were re-empowered and the X-gene restored to the human race. Countless WMDs were destroyed and several superpowered dictators were overthrown. Unfortunately, the Phoenix's pain and madness transmitted themselves so any attempt to stop them or even confront them resulted in violent reprisal. Charles Xavier was killed by Cyclops, Wakanda was flooded by Namor, Colossus laid waste to the Russian army, and Paradise Island was nearly destroyed for the 50th time by Emma Frost.

Ultimately, a complicated plan resulted in the Phoenix Force being reunited and confronted with the Specter. Both cosmic beings disappeared and no one knows what their ultimate fate is.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:51 pm

Spectre: "Phoenix, I have stood by and watched the chaos you have produced for long enough. Now you shall face divine justice."

(Also, is it me or should have the Hellfire Club been put on trial by the Shi'ar as well due to their fault in Dark Phoenix?)
Last edited by Voltron64 on Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:07 pm

Hehe, nice one Voltron.
Voltron64 wrote:(Also, is it me or should have the Hellfire Club been put on trial by the Shi'ar as well due to their fault in Dark Phoenix?)
Indeed, they should have and extradition has long been a plan of individuals in the Shi'ar Empire. However, things tend to become complicated whenever someone tries to go after someone on Earth. Empress Lilandra wanted to put the matter to a close with the death of the Jean Grey avatar of the Phoenix. Unfortunately, the successors to her have been less than accommodating. Vulcan, in particular, planned to conquer Earth like countless other two bit conquerors.

Emperor Gladiator would be happy to bring the Hellfire Club to justice once he sorts out whether the Phoenix is coming back or not but he's currently dealing with a time-lost 16 year old Jean Grey (unaware the original Phoenix was just taking her appearance). Worse, if he did try to bring the Hellfire Club to justice he'd find out Emma Frost is an X-man now and bringing the actual evil-doers to justice would probably end up backfiring.

The X-men are great at many things but recognizing any higher authority than themselves is not one of them.

And can you blame them?

(Really, the world would be a much better place if quite a few of Earth's greatest criminals were put away on Oa or the throneworld for life)

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:12 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:The X-men are great at many things but recognizing any higher authority than themselves is not one of them.

And can you blame them?
Quite a bit, actually. Xavier is probably wondering in the afterlife how he screwed up this badly with them. Because you know, that mindset of theirs hews far closer to classic Magneto than his.
Impeach the peach!

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:37 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:Hehe, nice one Voltron.
Voltron64 wrote:(Also, is it me or should have the Hellfire Club been put on trial by the Shi'ar as well due to their fault in Dark Phoenix?)
Indeed, they should have and extradition has long been a plan of individuals in the Shi'ar Empire. However, things tend to become complicated whenever someone tries to go after someone on Earth. Empress Lilandra wanted to put the matter to a close with the death of the Jean Grey avatar of the Phoenix. Unfortunately, the successors to her have been less than accommodating. Vulcan, in particular, planned to conquer Earth like countless other two bit conquerors.

Emperor Gladiator would be happy to bring the Hellfire Club to justice once he sorts out whether the Phoenix is coming back or not but he's currently dealing with a time-lost 16 year old Jean Grey (unaware the original Phoenix was just taking her appearance). Worse, if he did try to bring the Hellfire Club to justice he'd find out Emma Frost is an X-man now and bringing the actual evil-doers to justice would probably end up backfiring.

The X-men are great at many things but recognizing any higher authority than themselves is not one of them.

And really, can you blame them?

(Really, the world would be a much better place if quite a few of Earth's greatest criminals were put away on Oa or the throneworld for life)
What makes you think somebody won't start doing that in the DCMU future, Charles? :wink:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Phrozen » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:49 pm

Alternative solution:
Phoenix gets punted to the Darkforce.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:30 pm

Phrozen wrote:Alternative solution:
Phoenix gets punted to the Darkforce.
That might work too.

:mrgreen:

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