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The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Arthur Eld » Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:46 am

Just saw this yesterday, and I thought it was great. I didn't feel like there were any pacing problems (that could just be me, I have lots of patience with movies that I don't with real life) but I did question the motivation of the villain. But other than that, I thought it was really solid.

I know some people have mentioned the fact that Batman isn't a huge presence in the movie, but I think that actually works for it. In combining KnightFall and No Man's Land as it did, the movie had to introduce other characters, its just how it works. But then, one of my favorite Batman comics Batman/Grendel, gives Batman about as much time as everybody else, rather than making him the driving force of the piece. I wouldn't say that makes it better than stories where Batman takes center stage, I just think that certain stories require different lenses for characters.

I thought the character of John Blake was great-although I am a huge JGL fan, have been since Brick (and 3rd Rock, but that's a very different kind of acting), and the little bits at the end of the movie with him were great. Catwoman was very well done-there are a few bits where her demeanor changes so quickly and so well, showing how a character can have two different 'faces', so to speak without a mask, and I liked her little helper girl-it helped reinforce her character. Bit disappointed they named her Jen and not Holly Robinson, though, although that's admittedly a very minor thing.

I think what I liked most about this was that it combined some of the feel of Batman Begins and Dark Knight to me. I can't really explain how (aside from the obvious flashbacks) but there were a few bright spots that I felt were kind of missing from the more dour Dark Knight. When Batman first shows up in this movie, I was pumped.

Last note, there were a lot of shades of Rocky 3 with the whole Batman/Bane dynamic. But then, that's a solid flick.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby HappyDaze » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:40 am

Arthur Eld wrote: I did question the motivation of the villain.

I too had to wonder what makes Gotham so damned important on the global scene. Then I remembered that this is comic book land where the hero's home town (or planet if it's a cosmic hero) is always the epicenter of everything that occurs for no reason other than it's the hero's home town (or world).
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Arthur Eld » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:50 am

Well, in Batman Begins, Ra's mentions that Gotham is more or less the center of the world. Seeing as how its somewhat along the lines of New York City, that makes sense. He compares it to Rome and I think London in different parts of history.

That's not what I meant anyway.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Ares » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:53 pm

I felt this film had a large disconnect from the previous films. Begins was an origin story, it set the stage for everything, established the character motivations, had the first real adventure, and got everything set up. The Dark Knight was a perfect Nolan-verse Batman story, an examination of what people will do when pushed too far, how far people are willing to compromise their beliefs in times of crisis, what we're willing to do to achieve our ends, and a villain who gleefully pushes peoples buttons while watching them dance to his music. The Dark Knight Rises is basically just a revenge story, with the villains using the idea of an anarchistic rebellion to cover that, though it does continue the Bruce Wayne arc of what this guy is trying to do with his life, and what he's living for.

Several things didn't work for me, at least within the confines of it being a follow up to The Dark Knight. Some of the ideas put forth by the Joker was the notion that things couldn't go back to the way they'd been before. Batman had changed things, and you couldn't put the genie back in the bottle. Furthermore, he was going to continue being the hero Gotham needed despite the police pursuing him. There was this great notion that Batman was going to soldier on in the face of indescribable odds, and that we were going to see the reprocussions of what people like Batman have on society.

Only we don't. Batman quits pretty much the next day and we get exactly one new masked individual (Bane doesn't count, given its less for a look and more of a requirement), and she doesn't even go by 'Catwoman'. So pretty much all of the questions, ideas and potential raised in The Dark Knight? Nothing comes of it.

Making Batman's career only last about a year also kind of hurts things to me. Instead of him being this guy who really changed things, Gotham just remembers that really weird year when this guy with a mask was beating up criminals, but after the Dent thing he just left and hasn't been heard from since. It made even less sense that Bruce Wayne would be a physical mess after 8 years of basically healing and relaxing.

Blake's "I knew you were Batman" bit was also just lazy, there had to be a better way to come up with it. The 'Robin' line at the end just made me roll my eyes as well. Not that I disliked the character, in many respects he and Gordon felt like the actual heroes of the film, while Bruce Wayne almost felt like a side character in his own movie.

I'm not saying it was a bad movie by any means, but it was weaker than the second film in my opinion, and might even be weaker than the first one. I'd have to watch them again. Bruce Wayne having to deal with the mess he's made of his life and finding a way to move on from being Batman is a nice arc for the character, but at the same time he wound up sitting out most of this movie, and revelations that are handed to him aren't really anything special.

There was actually a moment, where Bruce Wayne was going to make that jump, where I almost thought that we were going to see him fall to his death and we'd get a montage of his life, and he'd come to the sad realization that for all that he's been through, for all that he's accomplished, everything he's done has amounted to him being this rich kid with parent issues who dressed up like a bat for a year, and is going to die alone and unknown at the bottom of a deep hole. And then it was going to come down to the real heroes of the film, the cops, to save the day. It didn't go that way, obviously, but it did make for an interesting little day dream while Bruce climbed the rest of the way out of that hole.

So yeah, the film has pacing issues, the villains aren't terribly interesting, Batman is barely in this movie, lackluster fight scenes and it ignores pretty much everything introduced in the last film. It still has great acting by the cast, a great score, there's no Rachel Dawes character to drag things down, and Bruce Wayne actually gets a character arc throughout the movies with a defenitive end to it. It's a solid 'good' film, but it falls short of the standards set by the other two, in my opinion.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Libra » Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:11 pm

To start off with the blatanly obvious (because sometimes it's just FUN being able to say that "I was there, I was that dancer/college athlete/soldier/highly-decorated flasher/shrimping boat captain" for more reasons than one): I'm not the reviewer this movie needs and I'm almost certainly not the reviewer deserves, but I'll try anyway - because someone has to and since several people already have I'm going to do pitch in too because I love the thought of sharing my own opinions with people who care enough about the subject to pst about it, but not QUITE enough to hunt me down to scourge and purge me for a heretic.

But enough about me, on with the show.

Well, I won't lie, I have been a fan of Christopher Nolan's version of the Batman mythos since it began and nothing I have seen for myself or read about in those opinions others have shared with the community of the public at large has yet convinced me that this trilogy is NOT a wholly worthy and frequently wonderful addition to the rich history of the Dark Knight: this trilogy has given* an increased level of dignity to the cinematic incarnation of Batman, thanks to a level of care, craft and panache uncommon even in cinema as a whole, never mind what one might as well call genre cinema (as well as attracted an entire new generation of fans who one hopes will find this one particular Gotham an agreeable stepping stone towards the greater DC creation).

*I hesitate to say GIVEN BACK because I find it hard to say that he ever had it wholly stripped away; controversial as it may be to say this anywhere but within earshot of Chris Sims, but I cannot find it in myself to say Mr Schumacher's take on the Caped Crusader utterly lacked dignity - those costumes didn't exactly do his films any favours, but his take on the Dark Knight was seldom any less compassionate or courageous than Mr Nolan's even if he was frequently somewhat less well-dressed.

I would also like to note that when it came to sheer imagination, the mad and beautiful ideas which Superheroes in particular thrive on, Mr Schumacher's films still tend to leave Mr Nolan's prowling in their wake; think about how much of Batman one would lose if we confined ourselves to the very solid, formidably grounded Gotham we see in Mr Nolan's vision.

While we must certainly call the works of Mr Nolan, his Cast and Crew definitive, also that in my opinion at least this is a GOOD thing, we should not assume that they will forever be the last word concerning the Dark Knight and I would hope that we should never be in danger of forbidding future generations (or this one) for bringing new twists and turns to The Batman et al.


That being said and because I dislike this part of the review process so much that I want to be over and done with it before I get to the Good Stuff (and therefore cleanse my palate of it), I'll list here those elements of the movie which I felt were simply not up to the standards of the rest of it (frighteningly high, to be sure).

- The Score: As ever Maestro Hans Zimmer has turned in a pulse-pounding score which fits the movie; this is far from a bad thing, as several elements of his score suit my taste well enough to be palatable (for example I find The Chant hooked my attention to the point where it still refuses to let go and I'd argue that no other composer has quite managed to convey the sheer overwhelming FORCE of the Dark Knight in action as effectively as Mr Zimmer has), it fails to thrill the soul in the way the works of Maestro Elfman and the late, great Shirley Walker still manage to.

To put it succinctly, Mr Zimmer's score has considerable potency, but too little poetry for my taste; were there some elements of Opera/Swashbuckling Melodrama I would feel it suited the character better.

- The City: Again, while I truly admire what Mr Nolan and crew have accomplished in making the world of the Dark Knight so tangiable one can very nearly reach out through the screen and touch it, I must confess that I miss the more-than-slightly melodramatic splendour of that peculiar mix of Dark Deco and Gothic Masonry on Absinthe that so distinguishes Gotham City in the comics and some of the other media adaptions (Batman the Animated Series, Batman the Brave and the Bold and even the series of films which preceeded this splendid trilogy, although to be fair I suspect that none of them were perfect either, perfection being an aspiration to pursue and not a reality we'll ever enjoy, I fear).

Never-the-less, I appreciate the choices he and his creative colleagues have made, as well as being sufficiently moved to admit that I admire their decision to stick with it to the bittersweet end; if the city we see in these films does not quite match the mental image of Gotham I hold so dear in my imagination, it certainly suits these films admirably and remains impressive.

- The World: a final reservation regarding these films and one intimately linked to the last point above is that quite frankly the World Christian Bale's Batman inhabits is NOT the DC Universe I love (even if it IS a Batman Universe I like and admire) for the very simple reason that while it has considerable room for humour and imagination, it lacks the capacity to countenance Pure Fantasy which I consider the most endearing feature of Comic Book Universes.

While the universe of Batman a la Christopher Nolan is by no means without imagination and remains quite as far from Reality as it does Fantasy, one finds it hard to imagine this grounded take on Gotham ever playing host to The Penguin, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc and (amongst many others, but perhaps the absence most difficult to forgive whatever an in-joke might imply) Batgirl, Robin or any of the DC Heroes with whom Batman is most usefully teamed up, at least in any form which permits all concerned to work to their fullest potential without diminishing one another.

While this was deliberate and an entirely valid choice given the prevailing philosophy on superhero films at the time Batman Begins was made (still in force at the present time at DC, although hopefully not forever), which avoided mentioning other properties, even those associated with the same parent company, I cannot help but call any universe it which Batman will NEVER meet Superman or even seriously be allowed to entertain that possibility my particular favourite.

There's a reason my favourite adaption of the DC Universe to date is the animated series Batman the Brave and the Bold folks (no, not THE Animated Series, although I love it dearly).

All this being said, while these elements impact my enjoyment of the trilogy it must be said that this impact is far from fatal and all of the choices which brought about these particular facets of the experience are entirely valid, no matter that I disagree with them.

For all that they temper my enjoyment of the Trilogy with reservations, they do NOT adversely affect the quality of the films to any meaningful degree of severity, at least in my opinion.

Right, my grumbles being duly put on public display, now it's time for me to praise the film with Great Praise and almost equal brevity (a man has to SLEEP hang it all).

There is a great deal to enjoy in the Dark Knight Rises, but in the interests of avoiding serious spoilers and my sleeping patterns I'll do my best to boil it down to the essentials.

- The Talented Characters: Let me put it quite simply, Mr Nolan continues his noble streak of putting together a veritible Murderer's Row of acting talent and putting it to superb use - for all that one can quibble with the interpretation of any given character or the suitability of any given actor for the role they have been given and really, these ARE quibbles in my opinion, no matter what others may say.

To begin with, what one might call the recurring players of Nolan's Gotham (Bale, Caine, Freeman, Oldman) all continue to fill their allotted roles with considerable vigour and their usual splendid displays of the talents that has made them sought after.

For all the eyebrows Mr Bale's bat-voice continues to raise, he remains quite simply the finest all-round actor to occupy the role (Mr Kevin Conroy remains simply the finest actor, but I feel he yields the title of all-rounder to Mr Bale simply because he has never had to simultaneously voice Batman/Bruce Wayne AND physically incarnate the character), intimidating and inspiring and remaining wholly human all at the same time.

For all that I fear that Alfred is perhaps less in this movie than he has been in the other two parts of the trilogy, he remains a strong presence none-the-less and Michael Caine remains maginificent in the role, as he has subtly remade it to suit his strengths (If I continue to imagine other actors in the role it is only because Batman's Batman is even more fun to cast mentally than his master and foster-son, if only because Sir Anthony Hopkins and Sir Christoper Lee are probably a bit too old to play the Batman and Garry Oldman looks better with a moustache).

Morgan Freeman's Lucius Fox remains the Q we've been missing since the late (although thankfully not the last) Major Boothroyd suffered his unfortunate demise, continuing to make Lucius Fox a supporting character just as worthy of Bruce Wayne as Alfred Pennyworth (or very nearly - this IS Batman's Batman after all).

Garry Oldman, of course, continues to convey why Jim Gordon remains Gotham's Greatest Hero (even if he isn't quite it's biggest bad---, gracefully conceding that honour to the Batman in the interest of the serving the public trust in a manner consistent with decent Law Enforcement while presenting a considerable challenge for it). As you my have noticed, Oldman is even better as an actor than critics might say Gordon is as a role (we audiences are frequently wise to ignore critics, literary or otherwise, because they're so busy being critical they forget to look for FUN, rather than weaknesses).

Even if some secret corner of my mind wonders what he'd look like as Alfred or even if Bruce Willis will ever get the chance to carry the role I'd argue he's been training to play since a certain Heroic Everyman cop made his debut in Die Hard.

If I omit certain actors and their characters forgive me, but I refuse to spoil the fun of running into them in your own time - have a good one!

As for the new talent, the actors recruited to this movie do sterling service in their own right - a series of minor supporting roles are played by actors who make them rather more, Marion Cotillard makes for an intriguing Dark Knight Damsel, Matthew Modine's performance is as commendably solid as his character's decisions are occasionally lamentable, Joseph Gordon-Levitt all but flourishes his card as a deserving action hero in his own right, Tom Hardy simultaneously stamps his Bane indeliably both over Gotham and into my conception of the character (really, no Villain with a breathing apparatus has presented such a viably deadly peril since Darth Vader).

Oh and quite frankly Anne Hathaway's take on Selina Kyle shamelessly insinuated her way into my affections, then ran away with my heart within the space of Catwoman's first appearance and has yet to return all the scenes she stole over the course of the film; she might well play my favourite take on the Feline Fatale in an adaption to date.

-The Creative Vision: Quite frankly Mr Nolan and his team have alternately chilled, intrigued and thrilled for a series of splendid reasons - the coherency and thoughtfulness they have brought to the creation of these films is matched only by the Marvel Serials that led in to this year's Avengers Assemble; even if their achievement plays out on a slightly smaller scale, I do not believe that the comparison diminishes either party. One can only hope that future Live Action films featuring superheroes can live up to the very best in the examples presented by these films, Trilogy and 6-part Serial.

On another level, the very grounded take on Gotham given in these films (while also being one which I have had issues with at intervals) continues to be so convincing as to be nearly tangiable - thanks to rock-solid costuming, location work and best of all the practical special effects which Mr Nolan has made Batman's own, in combination with occasional flashes of CGI.

If it can be said to lack the flourishes and gleeful fantasy present in other adaption, it can be said that those adaptions can be in dire need of a more coherent grounding to prevent the clouds from blocking the view of those heads watching who plan to become talking heads later.

I also admire the Mr Nolan's willingness to acknowledge when he has said all that he wishes to say about the character and walk away at what I would say is the height of his powers - I wish him the best of British luck (and all that he can find in foreign markets) to him in his future cinematic endevours.

To round up, I am hugely impressed with Mr Nolan's take on Batman in general and The Dark Knight Rises specificially, even if I nurse the odd reservation, and I do not resent the fact that it will define the character (if only in the minds of those amongst the cinema-going public who went to see them without preconcieved opinions about the characters and worlds depicted, who STILL get to enjoy Mr Nolan's while they work to put their own on screen or down on paper).

Now all that remains is to ask whether any Live Action auteur will be able to follow his lead or make the Batman Universe their own in their own right to quite the same degree before Christian Bale grows old enough to play Alfred Pennyworth himself. I wish the best of luck to all those concerned with this trilogy in their future choices and endevours (even if they don't make one quite as wise as this one!).
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Thorpacolypse » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:18 pm

I loved it. Not as much as The Dark Knight, but this one was epic through and through. I went in with reasonable expectations and it delivered. Perfect? Obviously not. A fitting end to Bale and Nolan's run? Certainly.

I'm going to have to put Anne Hathaway back on my Sexceptions list. So that means, so long Halle Berry! My wife has limited me to 5 so you are booted off Thorpacolypse Island! I've had enough of your shenanigans, lady and she out-Catwomaned you by a MILE! :D
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Mr Mole » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:10 am

Thorpacolypse wrote:I'm going to have to put Anne Hathaway back on my Sexceptions list. So that means, so long Halle Berry! My wife has limited me to 5 so you are booted off Thorpacolypse Island! I've had enough of your shenanigans, lady and she out-Catwomaned you by a MILE! :D

I haven't seen The Dark Knight Rises, so I can't base this off that... I've rarely been a big fan of Hathaway... I wasn't thrilled when I heard she was going to be in TDKR... But I've heard pretty consistently that she did an excellent job... I think she surprised a lot of people... And, being blunt, it's not like her Catwoman could really be any worse than Halle Berry's (whose Catwoman movie is an abomination, start to finish)...

Female roles in Batman movies don't tend to be all that good... Nolan's done a better-than-average job with his run, but it's not like the first two had all that much going for them with the Rachel Dawes character... The most significant of the very limited, even remotely notable female roles in either movie... So anything worthwhile is still an improvement...
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby tomorrow » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:18 pm

I will say that I was thoroughly impressed with Hathaway's Catwoman.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby saint_matthew » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:40 am

Wow, i just got back from DKR & i can honestly say i enjoyed 2/5ths of that film. I loved the first 1/5th & the post conclusion 1/5th, but all that shit in the middle was just terrible. An for me personally there were just stand out dumb moments, that just caught my attention & wouldn't let the frell go.

The first of these was the side flippy wheel on the bat-bike... WHAT... THE... FRAK? Sure i get that the laws of physics don't mean much in a comic book, but this also breaks the laws of common sense & the generalised law of "if it serves no function, why the hell do it."

The Pit: Where to start with this one? Okay how about this for starters, why climb on to that ledge & then jump across to another ledge? I can clearly see the hand holds you seem to have no trouble climbing so far reaching all the way to the top of the pit. Or why not, if you inisist on reaching that big ledge, instead of jumping, just walk along the slightly smaller ledge right next to it, which i can clearly see. Or why not just climb the rope to its apex & then climb up from there... Or even better yet, just use the resources already in the pit to make some pitons, or hand rungs: I mean its not like you don't have a pretty dedicated work force in there with you.

The cops: Um, how the hell where they trapped in the sewers? Its the freaking sewers, they have entrances all over the place & even if they are guarded all of them, you are cops, YOU FREAKING WELL HAVE GUNS!

In fact when you escape why the frack would you line up like morons when you all have ranged weapons & superior numbers? Take the surrounding buildings stealthfully, an surround Banes compound. What you don't do is stand around in one huge clump when you know your enemy has vehicles with automatic weaponary: Did COD teach us nothing about urban warfare & people summoning attack helicopters?

The Bomb: Oh this one science guy figured out how the device can be turned into a bomb, but he died, so his secret died with him... Oh apparently the secret to turning it into a bomb is turning it on, then unplugging the core... Which then apparently turns it into a nuclear bomb. Um, i'm pretty sure science doesn't work that way, not even comic book science.

Batmans Master plan: A fist fight with Bane. The movies biggest What the frack moment as far as i'm concerned... An lets not even get started on the heir to the throne reveal: Even if i didn't see it coming, she doesn't get enough screen time that any one who didn't see it coming is going to give a shit, frankly i wrote a better story climax for that movie in my head in the 20 minutes it took me to wait for the bus home.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Kit » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:51 am

saint_matthew wrote:Wow, i just got back from DKR & i can honestly say i enjoyed 2/5ths of that film. I loved the first 1/5th & the post conclusion 1/5th, but all that shit in the middle was just terrible. An for me personally there were just stand out dumb moments, that just caught my attention & wouldn't let the frell go.

The first of these was the side flippy wheel on the bat-bike... WHAT... THE... FRAK? Sure i get that the laws of physics don't mean much in a comic book, but this also breaks the laws of common sense & the generalised law of "if it serves no function, why the hell do it."

The Pit: Where to start with this one? Okay how about this for starters, why climb on to that ledge & then jump across to another ledge? I can clearly see the hand holds you seem to have no trouble climbing so far reaching all the way to the top of the pit. Or why not, if you inisist on reaching that big ledge, instead of jumping, just walk along the slightly smaller ledge right next to it, which i can clearly see. Or why not just climb the rope to its apex & then climb up from there... Or even better yet, just use the resources already in the pit to make some pitons, or hand rungs: I mean its not like you don't have a pretty dedicated work force in there with you.

The cops: Um, how the hell where they trapped in the sewers? Its the freaking sewers, they have entrances all over the place & even if they are guarded all of them, you are cops, YOU FREAKING WELL HAVE GUNS!

In fact when you escape why the frack would you line up like morons when you all have ranged weapons & superior numbers? Take the surrounding buildings stealthfully, an surround Banes compound. What you don't do is stand around in one huge clump when you know your enemy has vehicles with automatic weaponary: Did COD teach us nothing about urban warfare & people summoning attack helicopters?

The Bomb: Oh this one science guy figured out how the device can be turned into a bomb, but he died, so his secret died with him... Oh apparently the secret to turning it into a bomb is turning it on, then unplugging the core... Which then apparently turns it into a nuclear bomb. Um, i'm pretty sure science doesn't work that way, not even comic book science.

Batmans Master plan: A fist fight with Bane. The movies biggest What the frack moment as far as i'm concerned... An lets not even get started on the heir to the throne reveal: Even if i didn't see it coming, she doesn't get enough screen time that any one who didn't see it coming is going to give a shit, frankly i wrote a better story climax for that movie in my head in the 20 minutes it took me to wait for the bus home.


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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby saint_matthew » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:50 am

Kit wrote:You're a kinder critic than i am.


The things they do well like alfreds heart wrenching scenes they did brilliantly, but the things they did poorly, they did really poorly & unfortunately there was just to much of the poor & not enough ofthe good.

An i think the best criticism of the movie is to co-opt one of alfred lines, the one about people not trying to trick the truth. The movie should of taken its own advice & instead of trying to be super clever, instead just put out a good movie. Because its when you are trying to be super clever you end up being the least clever of all.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby greycrusader » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:58 am

Yes, the entire "all of Gotham's police force is trapped underground bit" was ridiculous, not simply in its' execution, but in the fact the villains' plan depended on James Gordon ordering the entire police force of a major city into the sewers to search for Bruce Wayne.

What if the Comissioner hadn't made an utterly insane decision? Or if the mayor overruled him? Or if the fictional equivalent of NYC actually had national guard or army reserves bases inside the city limits?

(My own much smaller home city does, though there are only a few; basically armories which are lightly staffed).

In fairness, the second film had similar flaws: they simply weren't as noticeable because the scale was smaller. For example, the Joker's plan to escape police headquarters and then mastermind the execution of Batman's friends depended on provoking a police officer into attacking him at close quarters AND being able to overcome the officer and take away the cop's keys and weapon.

What if the policeman just didn't respond? Or if he ended up guarded by someone he couldn't take in a fight? Suppose Blake had been assigned to guard the Joker?

The bits with Batman's cycle defying inertia or conservation of momentum I can live with, in both films. This is a cinematic action universe, even if not a "comic book" universe per se. It was really no worse than what takes place in typical Hollywood big blockbuster fare. At least no one was outrunning explosions in this one.

(Funniest bit in The Other Guys was a bit of deconstruction, when the two "heroes" got slammed by a blast and spend what seems like hours lying on the ground begging and pleadiing for medical attention, bitterly complaining about how movies and tv make explosions seem like no big deal.)

The sky hijacking sequence was among the best I've ever seen on film. The stadium scene will be copied in lesser form by other future films (I predict); admittedly I am biased as I've watched games in that stadium and its' immediate predecessor for many years of my life.

Tom Hardy was superb as Bane, managing to command the screen even with half his face hidden and voice muffled. Kudos to the cinematographer and fight coordinator too, as the 5'9" Hardy appeared to tower above everyone else, including the 6' Bale, in all the close combat fight scenes. Hathaway, Oldman, Caine, and Joseph Gordon Levitt were all excellent as well. Freeman was, well, Morgan Freeman. Still never quite got into Bale's choices as Batman, including the "growly" voice. Marion Cotillard was not given much to do except be the attractive, mysterious woman.

Granted, the menace of Bane was diminished by the reveal that he was nothing more than Talia's henchman.

The "neutron reactor turned bomb" bit was sci-fi silly, and the pit-climb likewise (I understand the symbolism, but still...), but they didn't interfere too badly with my enjoyment of the movie as a whole. Overall the performances, effects, action sequences, pacing, lighting, and effective resolution for the characters and storylines were outstanding. I'd put the film above Batman Begins, though several notches lower than Dark Knight.

Just my opinion. Seems as if Kit really REALLY didn't like it though.

All my best.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:06 am

greycrusader wrote:The bits with Batman's cycle defying inertia or conservation of momentum I can live with, in both films. This is a cinematic action universe, even if not a "comic book" universe per se. It was really no worse than what takes place in typical Hollywood big blockbuster fare. At least no one was outrunning explosions in this one.


I have no problem with it defying inertia, but i draw the line at the front wheel flipping sideways, over a horizontal axis, sideways... Especially given the giant flipping guns on the side of those wheels.

In fact everytime i saw it, it ripped me right out of the film as my brain rebelled against the stupidity of it. An then i'd have to try to talk my brain down "yes brain i saw it too... No brain i don't know why they thought they had to be added as a visual effect.... Yes brain i realised that that not only makes sense, but would cause the vehicle to cease functioning, as batman would be launched into the air as the bike suddenly nose dived everytime it tried to corner... No brain, i don't know why the writers thought this plot was clever, convoluted yes, but not clever."

greycrusader wrote:The "neutron reactor turned bomb" bit was sci-fi silly, and the pit-climb likewise (I understand the symbolism, but still...), but they didn't interfere too badly with my enjoyment of the movie as a whole.


Yeahm i can't do that. My brain is constantly in the on setting & cannot be turned off at a movie... Its bad enough that my super power ruins movies... Oh, you didn't know i have a super power? Yeah, i'm cursed iwth plot sense: When bored my brain races ahead along the obvious path of a movies plot, but then doesn't stop till it gets to the end, which in turn bores me when the things i know are going to happen happen, which causes my brain to again skip ahead. Its a terrible cycle to get into, especially with a movie like this, epsecially with how obviously they sign posted the "heir to the throne" plot twist & how little it actually mattered, or how quickly Bane suddenly became an empty shell of a character as soon as it was revealed.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Arkrite » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:50 am

After reading everybody elses reviews I'm somewhat gobsmacked.
This was quite possibly the worst movie I've seen in a very long time. And yes, I will conceed that there are plenty of really bad movies made every year, and so this shouldn't fall into that category... but, and this is a big but, these are the people who gave us Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Having that much potential for an awesome movie, having the actors, the money, the writers, and completely failing to make anything even halfway decent of it? That's what makes it the worst.

Oh, it was pretty, and it had some good actors in it, the music wasn't bad, and the city shots were interesting... but the story was a complete mess, it dragged on forever, there were plot holes all over the place and they never once managed to draw me in.

Once Batman came back I started feeling like I was watching an old 80's cartoon show, in that I thought they were trying to sell "The Bat" airplane toys.

But the worst of it really comes into play when Batman actually shows up (for what feels like all of ten minutes of a five hour movie). The fight sequences looked horrible. I understand that the suit makes it hard to move in, and thus hard to fight in but this is where you need to find a good fight scene choreographer and a good cinematographer... and a good editor.
Even if the actor can't move you should make it look like he's a badass.

As it was, every fight that Batman was in he looked more slow and lumbering than, well, myself. And I am about as far from a superhero as you get!

When it comes down to it I was bored. I was bored during the setup, I was bored during the twists, and I was bored during the big action sequences.

I'm sorry, but my honest suggestion to anybody who hasn't seen this movie?
Don't.
Don't watch it.
It's not good, it's not interesting, a lot of the key players seem to get bit roles, the plot is odd, and apparently a heavily armored man can be punched out by a man who sounds like he's trying to sound like "Liam Neilson doing Sean Connery doing Gandelf the grey".

Go watch Batman Begins, and the Dark Knight. Then just assume they never made another.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises [July 20, 2012]

Postby Uthanar » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:31 pm

I cannot agree with you more on this point Arkrite, especially this part:

Arkrite wrote:"Liam Neilson doing Sean Connery doing Gandelf the grey".


If it had not been a comic book movie I would have turned it off while watching. The only thing that helped it try to rise above its horrendous state was the tiny part Alfred played in it.
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