All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

[BARON]

Seriously? Who needs another Superman movie? The character isn't that interesting to begin with. And the best possible interpretation was done by the first couple of Christopher Reeve movies.

wrong in my opinion. on both counts. the fleischer cartoons were equally as great and were nothing like the first donner film. superman is a great character and hasn't lasted all these years in pop culture for being "not that interesting to begin with". DC needs a good Superman franchise. It's a no brainer from a money standpoint and from the standpoint of launching a Justice League film worth seeing.

[Thakowsaizmu]

Maybe an epic Superman movie? Not a lame one where it turns out he has a kid or spins the Earth backwards, but something really big, you know, the kind of story you can tell with a guy like Superman.

[saint_matthew]

Seriously? Who needs another Superman movie? The character isn't that interesting to begin with.

LOLwhat?

Of course he's interesting.

And the best possible interpretation was done by the first couple of Christopher Reeve movies.

Okay, now i know you are kidding because those movies where terrible, just terrible: Limited to not plot, hackneyed execution, strange characterisation, stranger power set (an i mean strange by silver age standards).

I personally don't think there has ever been an average, let alone above average superman film.

[King Snarf]

Okay, now i know you are kidding because those movies where terrible, just terrible: Limited to not plot, hackneyed execution, strange characterisation, stranger power set (an i mean strange by silver age standards).

... I wish I could reach through the internet and smack some sense into you. Granted, by today's standards, it may seem hokey, but that's true of MANY movies. There are a ton of great moments in the first two films. Do they have there flaws? Absolutely. But so does Star Wars.

[saint_matthew]

Granted, by today's standards, it may seem hokey, but that's true of MANY movies.

Even back in the day those movies were not good. They use Clark Kent as a dullard or cats paw, under utilise Superman, who himself seems to hold no opinion on any topic outside of "bad guys are bad."

There are a ton of great moments in the first two films. Do they have there flaws? Absolutely. But so does Star Wars.

Theres a difference between "contains flaws" & "a terrible film." The past Superman movies, without fail have been terrible: Long lead ins, silly powers. sillier plot resolutions when there was one at all, dreadful wooden acting, etc etc.

One day a director will actually make a Superman movie where Superman is actually in it, in his entirety... As both something Super & something Human.

An you know the funny thing about it is? I think that when it finally happens it'll end up being a straight up Superman film, with the preboot costume, ala "New Adventures of Lois & Clark" & completely absent any twist, with the pure intention of being a super hero movie, with everything that that contains.

One where the dircetor doesn't try to reinvent Superman, or Lex Luthor... One where the villain is just being a villain, rather then trying to contempories him for a post Batman Begins audience.

An don't even get me started with Superman Returns; talk about a cinematic abortion.

[King Snarf]

Even back in the day those movies were not good. The past Superman movies, without fail have been terrible

That's your opinion, and one that isn't necessarily shared by critics and fans.

In fact, on rottentomatoes, Superman just narrowly beat out Star Wars as "fresher". It's also ranked higher than The Dark Knight and Iron Man. So, you know, grain of salt.

[saint_matthew]

That's your opinion, and one that isn't necessarily shared by critics and fans.

/facepalm Of course its my opinion Snarf, who else opinion did you think it was going to be?

As for Rotten Tomato, i have no interest in the score it gives anything, ever, under any circumstance.

In fact, on rottentomatoes, Superman just narrowly beat out Star Wars as "fresher". It's also ranked higher than The Dark Knight and Iron Man. So, you know, grain of salt.

Dude, no offense, but i'd need to take enough salt to give my self a heart attack, if i were to take the rottentomatato scoring system seriously.

So yeah it is my opinion that all the previous Superman movie have sucked to differing degree's... Pointing to Rotten Tomato is just a group of similiar opinions & no more substantiated as being objective, then me getting a whole group of people to agree that the earth is flat.

The amount of opinions on any subjective subject, does not an objective fact make & as such is given no more credence then a single opinion on a subjective topic. I PERSONALLY thought that the Superman movies were terrible & have already listed the reasons why.

An to this day i wait with held breath an interesting, well filmed Superman movie.

[King Snarf]

You said, "without fail", which denotes a certain amount of certainty and absolutism in your statement.

[saint_matthew]

You said, "without fail", which denotes a certain amount of certainty and absolutism in your statement.

No, it means that they were all terrible, "without fail." that they were ALL terrible. says nothing about objectivity versus subjectivity.

Read it within the context of the sentence: "Even back in the day those movies were not good. The past Superman movies, without fail have been terrible"

Nothing about Objectivity or Subjectivity.

[King Snarf]

Save the rules-lawyerin' talk for your GM! :p

[saint_matthew]

Save the rules-lawyerin' talk for your GM! :p

Dude, you were the one who brought "opinion" into this, like it was some sort of point of contention & then in thew same reply tried to bring in other peoples opinions like they were imperical fact. I'm sorry, if that sounds like i'm being a dick, but lazy argumentation annoys me.

The fact is that it is my opinion that those movies are now & have always been pretty terrible, from start to finish. During the recent school holidays we had a superhero week of movies, leading upto the Batman movie & i sat through every single Superman movie, in some cases for the first time: They just don't hold together.

Oh & just FYI, i am the GM.

[greycrusader]

While I would scarcely classify them as terrible, the first two Superman films do not hold up particularly well by current standards.

Clearly neither the writers or director(s) were confident about presenting a straightforward superhero film to the mass audience of the time, not even one heavily leavened with comedic elements. So we got a lot of "camp" elements and a smirking, winking "yes, we all know how silly this really is, don't we?" attitude in both moives, though less so in the second.

Christopher Reeves was a very tall (6' 4"), fit, and almost impossibly handsome man who honestly was mediocre at best as an actor; he was quite wooden as Superman and a caricature as Clark Kent, though again direction and writing comes into question here as well.

(Note: Mr. Reeves was by all accounts a remarkably courageous human being who made great contributions to spinal accident victims following his own tragedy; I'm not trying to take anything away from him on the personal, human level. But of the modern era actors who've portrayed the Man of Steel, his performance was the worst, in my opinion. Even Routh, who was hire to imitate Reeves, gave a more nuanced and comfortable take.)

Likewise, Gene Hackman's buffonish Luthor was not believable as a major villain, nor was he intended to be. He almost belonged in the old Batman TV show.

I could watch the first two Star Wars films right now and would still enjoy them (far more than the last three, really). The Donner Superman films have nostalgia value for me and that is about it-I'd wince at more than a few moments in the films, while others (Superman turns back time!) are almost painfully bad.

I think the movies were slightly wonderful in their day, but that time has long passed.

All my best (and just my two cents).

[saint_matthew]

@greycrusader: Yep, those are some of the reasons why i thought those movies were terrible. Unfortunately i have no nostalgia lenses for those films, so i watch it & all i see is a chain of terrible movies, culminatiing in Superman Returns.

[BARON]

I don't know why anyone would waste the time trying to prove a movie is objectively bad; especially when it's the first two Superman films we're talking about. Go on about it. I love those films. I think they hold up just fine and Reeves is dynamite. He's the only reason to watch 3 or 4.

[saint_matthew]

I don't know why anyone would waste the time trying to prove a movie is objectively bad; especially when it's the first two Superman films we're talking about. Go on about it. I love those films. I think they hold up just fine and Reeves is dynamite. He's the only reason to watch 3 or 4.

no one is talking about trying to prove those movies objectively bad. We are discussing our preference, or lack of a preference for the previous Superman movies.