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All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Discuss anything vaguely M&M related here, such as comics, movies, and action figures.

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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:51 pm

TheManagement wrote:There have been good things to come out of the reboot. Cancelling all of their titles and relaunching with new #1s boosted their sales (and those of the entire industry) and pushed their books up to the point of dominating the top ten charts for over a year now.


I wouldn't say dominating. First few months sure, but it didn't really last. An lets be fair here, over those last few months the title really top the charts was "Before Watchmen." As for sales in general, while it was better then the previous year, it still hasn't been better then 2006, with the creative relaunch.

TheManagement wrote:The problem though, is that 52 core titles is almost unsustainable. Thus all of the cancellations, replacements, and creative changes.


Of course it was unsustainable. It wasn't planned, it was a last minute, "lets do this thing" style plan.

TheManagement wrote:The biggest problem that I have is that the powers that be have really put quantity over quality. I'm all for a compnay-wide mandate requiring people to get the books out on time... but they've sacrificed quality to do so.


You mean kind of like how the new Justice League America title is apparently going to come out with 52 variant covers.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:21 pm

saint_matthew wrote:You mean kind of like how the new Justice League America title is apparently going to come out with 52 variant covers.

You...are kidding, yes?
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Darrin Kelley » Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:27 pm

saint_matthew wrote:You mean kind of like how the new Justice League America title is apparently going to come out with 52 variant covers.


I almost thought you were joking. But then I looked at the situation objectively, and my heart sank.

Seriously, Vince McMahon needs to buy out DC Comics. At least he'd hire better talent!
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:43 am

Darrin Kelley wrote:
saint_matthew wrote:You mean kind of like how the new Justice League America title is apparently going to come out with 52 variant covers.


I almost thought you were joking. But then I looked at the situation objectively, and my heart sank.


Yep, i thought it was a joke when i heard it in "punching for justice:" Then i looked it up.

Remember when we still had respect for DC? I miss those days.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Darrin Kelley » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:05 pm

saint_matthew wrote:Yep, i thought it was a joke when i heard it in "punching for justice:" Then i looked it up.

Remember when we still had respect for DC? I miss those days.


Well This month, my two final issues from Marvel came in. And from the looks of things, I'll be continuing to downsize the number of DC books I get.

I'm focusing mostly on Green Lantern. At least the stories there are still relatively good. And there are a few other books I am enamoured with, like Phantom Lady. But overall, I definitely am not following as many books as I did this time last year.

I'm about to cancel Justice League. because it is just not a good book. Regardless of the Shazam backup.

I'm downsizing overall. Even one of the independant books I really liked is ending up being canceled by the company. Disappointing. But what can you do? I'm downsizing from every direction it seems.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby TheManagement » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:30 pm

I stand by the fact that Superman is doing alright right now. The actual Superman title is a bit iffy, but #13 seems to be a turning point... definitely a fun issue with a lot of promise.

Action has been really good all along. Hopefully Diggle will keep the momentum going when Morrison leaves the title. My only complaint is that horrific costume.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Ares » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:27 pm

Darrin Kelley wrote:I'm about to cancel Justice League. because it is just not a good book. Regardless of the Shazam backup.


The Shazam backup is reason enough to not buy Justice League. Even if I liked that take on the League (and I don't), I refuse to do anything to support this version of Captain Marvel.

It's kind of a catch 22 situation to be in tho. With Wonder Woman, the Flash, or even Hawkman, a bad run means you get another creative team to spice things up, or the book gets canceled and relaunched in 1 year, 2 or 3 tops. Captain Marvel? His book gets canceled and DC waits 8 years before giving him even a mini-series, and then 6 years after that, a back up series in a Justice League book.

It's frustrating because I want to say "Hey DC, I love this character, I hate what you're doing to him. Don't stop making books about him, just make them good."

TheManagement wrote:I stand by the fact that Superman is doing alright right now. The actual Superman title is a bit iffy, but #13 seems to be a turning point... definitely a fun issue with a lot of promise.

Action has been really good all along. Hopefully Diggle will keep the momentum going when Morrison leaves the title. My only complaint is that horrific costume.


I think the whole "held up the weight of a planet for 5 days straight and barely broke a sweat" stinks of the kind of stupid things Loeb liked to pull off, but that's just me. It just seems kind of dumb, even by Silver Age standards.

Reporter: "So Superman, you were basically in a giant weight machine doing pushups for 5 days straight?"

Superman: "Yep. I am one bad*ss guy. Lifted the weight of a planet for several days and didn't even get tired."

Reporter: "And you don't think that time could have been better spent saving lives, catching criminals, or doing something productive? I mean, if you can lift the weight of a planet for several hours, does it really matter if you can do it for several days or not?"

Superman: ". . . . . gee, look at the time, gotta go!" *SWOOSH!*
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby TheManagement » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:31 am

Actually, if you read issue #13 of Superman, it's hella fun.

As for the crazy feat... just a few years ago he was lifting infinity and when the whole universe was collapsing around him, he built a wish machine to give the story a happy ending.

I tend not to overthink the high showings when I read a Superman book. I just want to se him punch Evil in the face... repeatedly.

I personally would never write him like that, and in the M&M game I'm running, I rebuilt all of the core builds so they aren't over-inflated... but as far as the comics go, if a writer wants Superman to hold a black hole in the palm of his hand (he's done this BTW) that's just what they're gonna do.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Ares » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:50 am

TheManagement wrote:As for the crazy feat... just a few years ago he was lifting infinity and when the whole universe was collapsing around him, he built a wish machine to give the story a happy ending.


That was no less stupid. I might be in a minority, but I didn't care for Final Crisis, at all. The only decent thing to come out of it was the Seven Soldiers books, whereas the rest was a massive, bloated mess that collapsed under it's own weight.

And I don't want to sound like a wet blanket, I like fun superhero stories. I just tend to prefer works that you get in series like Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, or the Dini Batman/Superman series, or Gargoyles. You get the fun without as much Deus Ex Machina or bloated powerlevels. It turns everything into some power level arms race that feels more like bad Dragon Ball Z than anything. I felt the same way about the reveal of Wonder Woman's bracers being power limiters.

I tend not to overthink the high showings when I read a Superman book. I just want to se him punch Evil in the face... repeatedly.


I want comics to be fun too, but this is just kind of . . . well, let me put it to you this way. Marvel editorial mentioned that they though that was kind of a ludicrous feat, and they've had the Hulk punch his way to other dimensions, destroy an asteroid twice the size of the Earth, etc.

I personally would never write him like that, and in the M&M game I'm running, I rebuilt all of the core builds so they aren't over-inflated... but as far as the comics go, if a writer wants Superman to hold a black hole in the palm of his hand (he's done this BTW) that's just what they're gonna do.


Sure, writers are going to write whatever they want.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:10 am

Ares wrote:That was no less stupid. I might be in a minority, but I didn't care for Final Crisis, at all. The only decent thing to come out of it was the Seven Soldiers books, whereas the rest was a massive, bloated mess that collapsed under it's own weight.


Oh no, you aren't alone in believing this to be so. As much as i blame the reboot for codifying DC's torytelling into the shallowest format for comic book story telling of super heroes, the trend has been moving towards that for a few years. An the front runner of this decline was Grant Morrison.

Everything out of his pen in the last few years has been "hi comic fans, i'm going to destroy the characters you love now, by continuing to pretend that super heroes are reinterpretations of greek & roman gods."

Sure, it was kind of clever when he wrote JLA, if only because it was a novel approach, but in recent years, its developed into a very dark trend of grimdark sillyness. An unfortunately his approach is essentially what the entirety of the NU DC is.

Ares wrote:And I don't want to sound like a wet blanket, I like fun superhero stories.


You mean you like having universes with child endangerment laws so lax that a team of teenage sidekicks can exist... Me too. I'm actually rereading the original Young Justice & awaiting my ordered trades of Teen Titans.

Ares wrote:I felt the same way about the reveal of Wonder Woman's bracers being power limiters.


With the what now? Sweet Rao, i am happy i dropped the NU DCU before i read that.

Ares wrote:I want comics to be fun too, but this is just kind of . . . well, let me put it to you this way. Marvel editorial mentioned that they though that was kind of a ludicrous feat, and they've had the Hulk punch his way to other dimensions, destroy an asteroid twice the size of the Earth, etc.


Marvel telling DC what its doing wrong is kind of like two people blind from birth arguing over what the colour blue looks like. Neither one of them has any idea what they are talking about, but both will try to make themselves feel better about having no clue by claiming esoteric knowledge neither one of them has.

Ares wrote:Sure, writers are going to write whatever they want.


Superman is one of those characters that is always better in theory then in practice. I love the idea of Superman, but writers just can't seem to write him well, even though its actually exceptionally easy to do.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Thakowsaizmu » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:41 am

Ares wrote: I might be in a minority, but I didn't care for Final Crisis, at all.

I was vehemently dissuaded by a comic store owner from picking that up. He flat out told me he'd rather not take my money than sell me something as bad as Final Crisis.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:48 pm

Thakowsaizmu wrote:
Ares wrote: I might be in a minority, but I didn't care for Final Crisis, at all.

I was vehemently dissuaded by a comic store owner from picking that up. He flat out told me he'd rather not take my money than sell me something as bad as Final Crisis.


Funny thing is that while Final Crisis is not a good comic, it is entirely readable as long as you only listen to the "Graphic Audio" audio book version & consider it to be an elseworld story. Its still not great, but its not nearly as terrible.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby TheManagement » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:19 am

I consider them all to be elseworlds stories. I'm a big believer in Mark Waid's Hypertime. It all happened, it's all canon... maybe not in continuity, but every story is just as canon as anything else. They're all the same characters anyways.

If I were to write Superman, that's how I would treat it anyway. He's this guy that has been to the ends of the universe and back, overcome everything imaginable in the process, and kept his humanity throughout all of it.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:45 am

TheManagement wrote:I consider them all to be elseworlds stories. I'm a big believer in Mark Waid's Hypertime. It all happened, it's all canon... maybe not in continuity, but every story is just as canon as anything else. They're all the same characters anyways.

If I were to write Superman, that's how I would treat it anyway. He's this guy that has been to the ends of the universe and back, overcome everything imaginable in the process, and kept his humanity throughout all of it.


Upside to everything being canon is that Superboy Prime gets to come back as a hero in 2014, when he punches the walls of reality again & puts the universe back to how it was pre-reboot.

*fingers crossed*

Its okay though, becaue i'm rereading my JL comics before selling them & most of my other NU52 books this week & honestly, the more i read, the quicker i find my self yelling "Antilife justifies my hatred!"

An yes that was both a reference to old school JLA & "A Top the 4th Wall: where bad comics burn" video podcast.
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Re: All DC comics to relaunch with Issue #1 in September

Postby Ares » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:03 pm

I love Atop the Fourth Wall. I was actually the guy that donated "Superman: Distant Fires" and "Justice League: Act of God" to the show, and given the pain both those series caused him, I almost feel bad.
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