The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Discuss Freedom City, Paragons, Wild Cards, or your own campaign settings here.
Locked
Libra
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 19834
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: The Green and Pleasent Isle

The Truth about KILLER CROC

Post by Libra » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:56 pm

Ask around the respectable parts of town, you'll learn that Waylon 'Killer Croc' Jones is notorious in Gotham City for being a seven feet plus of crocodile-man and prone to eating people who tick him off; ask around the Underworld and you'll hear him described as the baddest legbreaker in town and find that he's the focus of a great deal of hilarity for summing up his most succesful attempt on the life of the Dark Knight with the immortal words "I threw a rock at him ... it was a big rock".

That was Batman in disguise; the truth of Killer Croc is that he's 'only' six feet and five inches tall, that he possesses neither snout nor tail and that his fangs are the result of deliberate dental manipulation on his part (because Jones knew that it's kind of hard for a Crocodile-man to scare the hell out of people without fangs, especially in the wrestling ring and Croc is smart enough to use his intimidating appearence for all it's worth). It's also true that, when you get down to it, if you hand Croc Batman on a plate he'll beat that sucker's head into pulp with a real big rock, rather than default to a death trap or just plain waiting for the Bat to come around, then boast.

If that makes him stupid then he's d--- glad he was born dumb.

Here's the real deal on Killer Croc; he was a kid born out of wedlock to a mother who died in childbirth, leaving him with an aunt who was more scourge than saviour, as well as a hereditary skin disease that cursed him with a resemblance to a human lizard that only got stronger with age. For all of his early life he wandered from emotional abuse into petty crime into the penal system into physical abuse and then back on the wheel of misfortune again - with a brief spell as a circus strongman-freak and freakish wrestling heel the only remission, made all too brief by the fact that Jones has absolutely no real idea of how decent people treat each other because no-one in his experience ever treated him decently.

He drifted back into crime and finally decided to live there because the Underworld was the only place he's ever found which treated being big, scaly, good at legbreaking and freakishly scary as a good thing - he came to Gotham because it's still the only place on Earth where a freak can become a kingpin and Killer Croc wants to be Kingpin in Gotham.

Does it surprise you that Croc has big dreams and a comprehensible plan to make them reality? Well, that's not unfair, since it sometimes surprises even him that he actually sticks with them - because Croc is well aware of his strengths and his limitations because they ARE his plan: he's tougher than the smart guys and smarter than the tough guys (he's also more stupid than the smart guys and not quite as tough as some of the toughest guys, but he does his best to compensate or just endure the hard knocks).

He's going to make sure what he has works for him and work his way up to the top spot as fast as he can before someone kills him. Nobody except Croc believe he'll make it, but he doesn't give a d---; the only school he ever graduated was the school of hard knocks and the reality of defeat scares him less than the idea of being a never-ran, the prospect of failing just because he refused to pucker up and take his hits like a man.

Croc has been hurt by experts; he's been condescended to by genius; he's suffered just about every sort of reverse that you can imagine, all pretty much alone and he's still biting back - in all honesty, he's suffered the consequences of so many failures that the Underworld is a little in awe of the fact that he can keep coming back for more punishment and quite frankly that attention keeps him going.

People may laugh at Croc and scream at Croc but no-one ever ignores him.
Alright, that should have given you some idea of Croc's flaws, his toughness and his motivation so now let's discuss methods and personality:- when you get down to it Killer Croc is a wonderful henchman, a horrible boss and a passable customer because the only worldview that makes sense to him is Alpha-Omega; you're either the Big King or the Help. The former gives the orders, the latter obeys and if the latter does what the former tells them just right then the Big King will repay - disobey and bad things happen.

When Croc works for somebody, he keeps his own plans on the backburner and does what he's told with no frills, no complaints and no back-stabbing; if he's the boss then his mooks tend to suffer because he suffers from a chronic need to prove he's the boss and tends to prove himself by biting lumps out of people who tick him off. Unsurprisingly he tends to be more popular with Master Villains than with his peers - part of the reason he keeps getting invited to the Penguin's card games; Oswald appreciates the service he has rendered in the past and keeps trying to put him on retainer.

Croc keeps replying that he can't because one day the Penguin will be working for HIM; The Penguin, being a gentleman crook treats this as a pleasantry rather than an excessively-optimistic statement of fact.

On a related note, Croc is king of Gotham Muscle-men because it's easier for him to think his way around someone stronger and dumber than he is than it is to get close enough to the Masterminds to crush their skull before they out-think him; if you're smarter than Croc then you're more than smart enough to stay out of reach because what Killer Croc grips doesn't live long. A street-fighter with a grounding in wrestling, he used to kill alligators with his bare hands as a party trick after hours (part of the reason the Circus kicked him out and that wrestling ring picked up his services), if he gets his hands on you, you'll need more than tricks or simple strength to break free - witness the fact that the only man known to have broken his grip is Bane, someone both smarter than Croc is and just as strong.

When I say the only man, I mean ONLY - the first time Batman took on the Croc, when he was young and a lot more arrogant than he is now, Croc was lucky enough to seize the faint chance of a fair fight and d--- near killed The Dark Knight; if it hadn't been for the fact that Croc wanted to make an example of him, The Bat would never have been able to escape, recover and then arrange a rematch in full view of the Arkham Asylum luminaries Croc had managed to assemble with the prestige he'd earned the hard way - cheating for all he was worth, Batman won by a landslide and by turning a mud pit into an operating table.

Croc has yet to match that achievement, but he's come dangerously close.

One final note; hard-headed and thick-headed as he may be, Croc is no more stupid than any other career criminal who has lasted as long as he has in Gotham; in addition to being the toughest muscle-man, he's also the best criminal diver in the business, scuba or free diving and quite bluntly he OWNS the undercity - a strange network of sewers and bits of Gotham that the city has built over in it's climb towards the skyline, with a population of the derelict and forgotten whom Croc dominates effortlessly.

As Croc likes to put it, he already controls the Gotham Underworld - now all he needs to do is win control of the Criminal World and he can die happy.
Founder of H.E.R.O.I.C, Complimenter-in-Chief, Co-Arch Henchman to the Grin, Servant of the Hoff!

Rule Brittania! Praise the Hoff and the Grin!

Warning!: May cause Thread Drift.

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:49 pm

So Croc's the Mutant Leader, huh?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Libra
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 19834
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: The Green and Pleasent Isle

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:06 pm

Partly, but I would also suggest that The Batman is a good source for the voice and methods of the character as I imagine him - and oddly enough Rocky Balboa was also an influence, in the sense that like Rocky, Killer Croc will go the distance even when he fails (especially when he fails, since he face a losing battle more easily than the loss of face following a surrender).

Basically I've been trying to work out a solid take on Killer Croc that takes him away from Marvel's Lizard and even further away from the cannibalistic mutant Waylon Jones has so often been portrayed as - to the detriment of the character, in my opinion. This take basically makes him a career criminal with a complete mastery of legbreaking and big dreams that will probably never come true, but which Croc will still fight to the death for.

That's my take on the character; I would love to hear your thoughts on it! :D
Founder of H.E.R.O.I.C, Complimenter-in-Chief, Co-Arch Henchman to the Grin, Servant of the Hoff!

Rule Brittania! Praise the Hoff and the Grin!

Warning!: May cause Thread Drift.

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:57 pm

Anyone think Agent Phil Coulson should exist in this setting? :wink:

And have his introduction being him replacing Henry Peter Gyrich, ruthlessly insulting him all the while? :twisted:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Ares
Hero
Hero
Posts: 1558
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:41 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Ares » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:47 pm

The Kree
The Kree military has long served as the go-to bad guys for Marvel when they need an aggressive, militaristic alien force. I dug the Kree’s portrayal on Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes this season, where the uniforms were modified versions of the Ultimate Captain Mar-Vell outfit, but with a ranking system based on their chest emblems that was based on their classic costumes. As such, I decided to go and make mock ups of the Kree ranks, complete with my own names for them, their abilities, etc. This is nothing but a visualization and brief ability write up of the Kree based on my own likes from the A:EMH series, how it plays into the combined universe is up for anyone's thoughts.

So without further ado, here we go:
Image

Private: Privates are the lowest rank in the Kree military, though they’re still exceptionally dangerous due to their enhanced strength, military training and enhanced weaponry. They’re outfitted with the most basic Kree battle armor, which in addition to providing protection from a variety of damage types and environmental hazards, also provides communications, scanning and can transform their wrist-mounts into one of two weapon configurations. The first is the standard Kree blaster pistol, the second depends on the training of the individual soldier. Most Privates will have the standard Kree blaster rifle, but those with more specialized training (such as Sniper or Heavy Weapons) will have a secondary weapon suited to their training, such as a Kree Sniper Rifle or Energy Cannon.

Image
Commando: Commandos are a specialized squad of Kree soldier, superior to Privates but not good enough to warrant a command position. Commandos are trained in advanced combat and infiltration techniques, further augmented by their more advanced armor. Commando armor has the basic Kree armor capabilities, plus the ability to turn invisible and access to additional melee weapon configurations, including escrima-style stun rods.

Image
Lieutenant: Lieutenants are the first Kree rank that is considered a command position, often the ones providing field leadership for the lower soldiers. They also serve as the command crew for Kree ships, often being assigned to specialized duties such as security, communications and the like. Essentially the equivalent of the Star Trek: TNG era Gold Shirts. Their armor has all of the basic Kree armor capabilities, plus a melee weapon slot and flight capabilities.

Image
Commander: Commanders are the highest rank within the starship based command structure. Each is given command of a single Kree warship and a staff of Lieutenants to serve directly under them. Their armor is identical to the Lieutenant’s armor in terms of capabilities.

Image
Captain: Kree Captain’s rank above any individual Commander, and can assume command of any starship they board. In addition to leadership capabilities and combat skills, Kree of this rank must be an expert in one or more fields of Kree study, such as xenobiology, military tactics, hyperspace theory, martial arts, and the like. Captain class Kree armor has all of the capabilities of the Commander/Lieutenant class armor, but also have access to a more advanced power core that grants them several additional abilities, such as a Heavy Weapons configuration, the ability to generate force fields, and a customized slot for individual purposes, such as a holographic disguise slot that allows one to pass as a different alien species.

Image
Major: Majors are the 2nd highest rank in the Kree military, the equivalent of the Star Trek: TNG era Red Shirts. They are often assigned to oversee the most important assignments, and must be amongst the best the Kree military has to offer, mastering in several of the fields that a Kree Captain must specialize in. Their armor is identical to the Captain class armor in terms of capabilities.

Image
Admiral: Admirals are the single highest rank a Kree can achieve, short of specialized groups like the Accusers. Any and all Kree forces are answerable to them, and they must have at least a basic understanding of all advanced Kree theory. Their armor is identical to the Captain class armor in terms of capabilities.

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:11 pm

Hey, would anyone be upset if I updated this thread's premise to include the Freedomverse and/or HED! characters?

Also, I'm going to update the index.

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:37 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:Hey, would anyone be upset if I updated this thread's premise to include the Freedomverse and/or HED! characters?

Also, I'm going to update the index.
A little bit, yes.

No offense Charles, but I'm a bit of a stickler for just keeping it DC & Marvel.
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:40 pm

Could you also do some Take Thats to the New 52 as well, Charles? :twisted:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:52 pm

Voltron64 wrote:Could you also do some Take Thats to the New 52 as well, Charles? :twisted:
I wouldn't know. I haven't read any of them.

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:01 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
Voltron64 wrote:Could you also do some Take Thats to the New 52 as well, Charles? :twisted:
I wouldn't know. I haven't read any of them.
Good for you. Just go with what's been happening with Marvel and make up your crap for DC while you're at it. :wink:

And could you possibly have Agent Coulson be a part of the DCMU?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:17 pm

Mostly I'm thinking about starting a new thread for the above suggestion.

EnigmaticOne
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 8135
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:20 pm

Sure, a new thread would be better. I could contribute more easily that way, and just use this place as mindset fuel.
Impeach the peach!

Image

Libra
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 19834
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: The Green and Pleasent Isle

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:59 am

DC, Freedom City, HED! AND Marvel?!? Just how do you intend to fit it all together? :shock:
Founder of H.E.R.O.I.C, Complimenter-in-Chief, Co-Arch Henchman to the Grin, Servant of the Hoff!

Rule Brittania! Praise the Hoff and the Grin!

Warning!: May cause Thread Drift.

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:05 am

Libra wrote:DC, Freedom City, HED! AND Marvel?!? Just how do you intend to fit it all together? :shock:
That would be the challenge!

Libra
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 19834
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: The Green and Pleasent Isle

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:14 am

No kidding - all those round pegs and only so many holes in which to put them!

Actually Charles, if you're looking for a thread combining almost all of the influences you've mentioned you'll find one a little further down the page, created by a fellow called American Patriot - you might want to take a look at it and see if you'd like to join it (I very much believe that the creator would be extremely grateful and proud were you to do so). :)
Founder of H.E.R.O.I.C, Complimenter-in-Chief, Co-Arch Henchman to the Grin, Servant of the Hoff!

Rule Brittania! Praise the Hoff and the Grin!

Warning!: May cause Thread Drift.

Locked