The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Discuss Freedom City, Paragons, Wild Cards, or your own campaign settings here.
Locked
Libra
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 19834
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: The Green and Pleasent Isle

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:06 am

(Really, the world would be a much better place if quite a few of Earth's greatest criminals were put away on Oa or the throneworld for life)
The problem is that they wouldn't have become recognised as Earth's Most Terrible Criminals if they did not possess a volatile mix of skills, strengths and psychoses that makes it very difficult to HOLD them in captivity! (or even the Hell of your choice - I suspect that the Joker clings to life despite the best efforts of professionals because Hell doesn't fancy adding ANOTHER Wild Card and Heaven doesn't want to risk that Infernal Clown getting ANOTHER chance to acquire Demonic Power).


Excellent work one and all - keep it up and please be warned that I have a brief article brewing, defining the differences between Vandal Savage and Ra's Al-Ghul!
Founder of H.E.R.O.I.C, Complimenter-in-Chief, Co-Arch Henchman to the Grin, Servant of the Hoff!

Rule Brittania! Praise the Hoff and the Grin!

Warning!: May cause Thread Drift.

EnigmaticOne
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 8135
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:24 am

Charles: You left my Gorilla Grodd entry off the front page.
Impeach the peach!

Image

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:42 am

EnigmaticOne wrote:Charles: You left my Gorilla Grodd entry off the front page.
He tried to conceal himself with his mental powers!

:mrgreen:

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:50 am

Can I just go ahead and say that I think that Red Skull's recent actions involving dissecting Xavier's brain and trying to use it to conquer the world is some classic supervilliany?
Last edited by Voltron64 on Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

EnigmaticOne
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 8135
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:55 am

Charles Phipps wrote:
EnigmaticOne wrote:Charles: You left my Gorilla Grodd entry off the front page.
He tried to conceal himself with his mental powers!

:mrgreen:
Apparently, he also concealed giving me the credit. :P
Impeach the peach!

Image

Libra
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 19834
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: The Green and Pleasent Isle

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:01 am

In truth Ra's Al-Ghul despises and fears Vandal Savage with all his heart, loathing the 'Million Year-old Man' for his utterly spectacular selfishness and fearing him for the sheer potency of his ability to bring ANYONE that opposes him, ANYTHING that blocks or just plain bothers him crashing down like a mountain pine without fear for what may be lost thereby or much interest in whatever else might be shattered in the process.

In the old days Vandal Savage used to heartily dislike Ra's Al-Ghul, regarding the League of Shadows and it's Master as too principled to deal with for fun and profit, as well as too dangerous to destroy at his leisure; these days Vandal Savage still sees The Demon's Head as one of his more dangerous sparring partners, but has been enjoying far too much enjoyment from watching the old buzzard being twisted into the thing he hates most BY HIS OWN PRINCIPLES that he simply can't bring himself to put the old man of the mountains out of his misery.

What is the thing Ra's Al-Ghul hates most? You may ask and here I shall answer; a breaker, a burner, a creature that wrecks and then disdains to repair the ravages it has worked upon the world, a man that harms instead of heals and inflicts injury upon others as readily as he puts one foot in front of the other - in short, a vandal.


Quite simply Ra's Al-Ghul has lived too long with his burdens, without relief; first the burden of responsibility to heal the hurts of the world, then the burden of punishing those that preferred to wreck instead of repair, increasingly the burden of care for those who served him was added to his load and always the weight of years creeping up on him, memory by memory, monument by monument to a lost friend or some passing age - in the end this humanist found his humanity pressed out of his drop by drop, leaving behind only principle and purpose in place of the simple human kindness that had kept him from becoming utterly alienated from the World of Men he had once served with a whole heart.

It was at the moment when he picked up the assassin's blade and sought to wield it as a scalpel that Ra's Al-Ghul began to become a monster, yet he has not quite completed his transformation; he remains a man of honour, however secretive and shadowy the schemes by which he advances his cause, he cares for those whom he has taken under his wing, those who serve him loyally most of all and LOVES his family - but always Principle outweighs those Human ties, tilting the balance of his soul all the more assuredly towards damnation, Principle untempered by any great sense of kinship with Modern Man commands that Civilisation be decimated so that the World may be healed of it's hurts, it's healer unburdened by the complications of a world for which he has long since lost any understanding.

Quite frankly Ra's Al-Ghul is a man who has lived too long; he has cut himself off from the living currents of civilisation until he quite believes his League to be an Island entire unto itself and not a part of the World, has cut himself off from any contradiction and any chance of being halted in his downwards plunge into atrocity - worst of all he KNOWS this for he is not a stupid man and might even still be a wise man.

He knows that the Lazarus Pit has eaten away at his mind, he knows that the years and absolute authority over his own have eaten away at his soul, he knows that he is no longer the one who can do what must be done (even if he cannot quite admit this to himself, for though he is very wise he is far more proud than that); above all he knows that he is TIRED - why else seek so assiduously for an heir to whom he can pass all his burdens?
Why not Talia? you might very well ask - because Ra's Al-Ghul knows that his daughter's loyalty is to HIM not to his cause, because he does not want to see his daughter bear his burdens alone and knows that only one man can share that burden joyfully (well, without adding to her burdens at least), because Ra's Al-Ghul is an old man who WILL NOT change and cannot quite bring himself to believe with a whole heart that his DAUGHTER could do as well as a Grandson.

He is, after all, only human.

Vandal Savage, on the other hand, is a bloody-minded magnificent bully and a terrifyingly unpredictable b******; for all the clever tricks and subtleties he has learned or otherwise acquired over a fantastically long life (not forgetting the frequently devious complexities of which he is capable), at heart he remains a simple beast and never happier than when living from moment to moment, haring off in pursuit of power or breaking to pieces any that would oppose his ascent to power - or just letting off steam by kicking some poor soul's guts out past his backbone, one boot to the belly at a time.

Quite frankly his focus on the NOW is almost zen in it's calm simplicity, even if it IS more the product of utter self-involved, self-serving selfishness rather than any particular point of philosophy or even reflection; quite frankly 'Calm' is an odd word to apply to a man as unpredictable as Vandal Savage, a man capable of utter vindictiveness, brutal cruelties that have caused some of History's worst passing discomfort and explosions of boisterousness that would require the King Boar of Bombast to emulate in terms of sheer volume - as well as cold callousness, silken ruthlessness to the point of subtlety and iron focus on whatever he might pursue.

Put simply when doing business with Vandal Savage one is never quite sure if he's going to offer some informed commentary on vintages of wine while fighting off a dinosaur stampede or a fabulously dirty story about Elizabeth I of England ... or snap a secretary's neck for bringing him cold coffee; quite frankly if it weren't for the fact that his larger-than-life personality, immense fund of interesting anecdotes and genuine joy de vivre nobody would have a thing to do with him - as it is his somewhat unpredictable temper and complete disinterest in those that can't advance his interests or be used to serve those interests tend to ensure that his charms swiftly pall in the face of those that work with him for any length of time.

Confronted by the army of enemies his larger-than-life feats of conduct and misconduct can be relied upon to produce from the ranks of those whom he once called 'Friends' Vandal Savage simply shrugs - admittedly they MIGHT kill him, but barring accident (and Vandal Savage isn't CARELESS, just callous) he WILL outlive them and by the time they're dead the next generation of tools, toys and entertainment will be old enough to be interesting or at the very least useful.

Always assuming that Vandal Savage lets them live that long.
Founder of H.E.R.O.I.C, Complimenter-in-Chief, Co-Arch Henchman to the Grin, Servant of the Hoff!

Rule Brittania! Praise the Hoff and the Grin!

Warning!: May cause Thread Drift.

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:01 am

So who should be next on the agenda, Cyclops? Reverend Stryker and the Purifiers? Namor and Black Panther?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Libra
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 19834
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: The Green and Pleasent Isle

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:04 am

We'll just have to wait and see, eh? :wink:
Can I just go ahead and say that I think that Red Skull's recent actions involving dissecting Xavier's brain and trying to use it to conquer the world is some classic supervilliany?
It's … neither good nor nice to see Martin Luther King's mutant brother from another mother being used in a super villain scheme post-mortem, but it IS satisfying to see the Big Two produce a villain one can take supreme satisfaction in booing and hissing from somewhere other than the ranks of their own superheroes ...
Founder of H.E.R.O.I.C, Complimenter-in-Chief, Co-Arch Henchman to the Grin, Servant of the Hoff!

Rule Brittania! Praise the Hoff and the Grin!

Warning!: May cause Thread Drift.

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:49 pm

Libra wrote:We'll just have to wait and see, eh? :wink:
Can I just go ahead and say that I think that Red Skull's recent actions involving dissecting Xavier's brain and trying to use it to conquer the world is some classic supervilliany?
It's … neither good nor nice to see Martin Luther King's mutant brother from another mother being used in a super villain scheme post-mortem, but it IS satisfying to see the Big Two produce a villain one can take supreme satisfaction in booing and hissing from somewhere other than the ranks of their own superheroes ...
That and the sheer 4-Color Audacity of the scheme. :wink:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:49 pm

EnigmaticOne wrote:
Charles Phipps wrote:
EnigmaticOne wrote:Charles: You left my Gorilla Grodd entry off the front page.
He tried to conceal himself with his mental powers!

:mrgreen:
Apparently, he also concealed giving me the credit. :P
Fixed. :P

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:58 pm

Voltron64 wrote:Can I just go ahead and say that I think that Red Skull's recent actions involving dissecting Xavier's brain and trying to use it to conquer the world is some classic supervilliany?
Libra wrote:It's … neither good nor nice to see Martin Luther King's mutant brother from another mother being used in a super villain scheme post-mortem, but it IS satisfying to see the Big Two produce a villain one can take supreme satisfaction in booing and hissing from somewhere other than the ranks of their own superheroes ...
Voltron64 wrote:That and the sheer 4-Color Audacity of the scheme. :wink:
There's a certain appreciation to the fact, also, that it wasn't pulled off by the original Johann Schmidt. Said individual is presently roasting at 4,000,000 degrees centigrade in the fires of Mephisto's realm. Said demon having to pull off numerous favors to make sure he acquired the soul of the Skull and quite determined NOT to let him bargain his way out of the Inferno due to the sheer value of his spirit as a wall trophy. In other words, the Red Skull is unlikely to escape death due to Mephisto's need to "keep up with Neron."

Instead, this is the Nathaniel Essex-produced clone of the original that Johann Schmidt had plans of transferring his identity to. Mister Sinister, as his Victorian Hollow Earth proved, is a sick-sick ******* but not without a sense of humor so he couldn't resist tweaking some of the fourth Red Skull's personality qualities. The new version is still a Nazi and a repulsive human being but he's had his Large Ham qualities turned up to epic porcine levels. Likewise, the Neo-Skull is capable of a number of more pleasant qualities like enjoying music, animals, and treating his favorite underlings well.

He's incredibly PULPY.

It's actually throwing Captain America's game off. Especially when after his attempt to destroy the X-men failed, he ended up putting the Justice Society in a series of easily escapable death-traps while threatening to destroy Metropolis unless his ransom was paid. Thankfully, his minions allowed him to adjust for inflation or the Austin Powers jokes would have never stopped.

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:33 pm

I'm impressed by your write-up, Libra, and toast you for drawing such a distinction between two such villainous rogues. The two nicely compare and contrast with their dedication to Lawful and Neutral Evil. I don't agree with every bit of your interpretation but am happy to know that comics can/does produce different ideals!

Also, you should totally do your own Ra's Al Ghul or Vandal Savage write-up. Not that this isn't a good pair themselves.
Libra wrote:In truth Ra's Al-Ghul despises and fears Vandal Savage with all his heart, loathing the 'Million Year-old Man' for his utterly spectacular selfishness and fearing him for the sheer potency of his ability to bring ANYONE that opposes him, ANYTHING that blocks or just plain bothers him crashing down like a mountain pine without fear for what may be lost thereby or much interest in whatever else might be shattered in the process.
On Vandal Savage's part, the Demon's Head is something of an arrivalist in terms of immortality. Four hundred years is something Vandal Savage could spend engaged in an epic spree of murder and looting (and has).

He is, however, more aware of the League of Shadows (Shadows and Assassin being simultaneous translations of the same word from the tongue of its original founders). While Vandal Savage is the/a founder of the Illuminati, Hellfire Club, Roxxon Oil, and a dozen other foul organizations--he's not been unopposed this entire time.

While not reaching the level of the Assassins vs. Templars, needless to say the League has often been a force of frustration to his plans. Because during his million years of life, he's ALSO planned world domination for thousands of years and had it frustrated. The inspiration for the Biblical Cain thus takes great pleasure in watching the Demon Head's degeneration as his alchemical immortality fails.

Ra's Al Ghul would thus dearly love to permanently kill Savage as he has done many other foes long forgotten but he's preoccupied with what he considers larger matters.
Libra wrote:What is the thing Ra's Al-Ghul hates most? You may ask and here I shall answer; a breaker, a burner, a creature that wrecks and then disdains to repair the ravages it has worked upon the world, a man that harms instead of heals and inflicts injury upon others as readily as he puts one foot in front of the other - in short, a vandal.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villian."

On Earth-777, Ra's Al Ghul actually was originally something very akin to Batman with the difference of not being bound by Bruce Wayne's code against killing. Unfortunately, much of his achievements have been overriden by the fact that the Lazarus Madness plus his own desperation not to die without securing his legacy has eaten his mind. In short, much like Jaimie Lannister, whose's gone from being Arthur Dayne to the Smiling Knight.

Ra's Al Ghul is aware he's become more like Savage than he ever wanted to. Especially since part of his plan to "save" the world requires wrecking most of civilization.
Libra wrote: Why not Talia? you might very well ask - because Ra's Al-Ghul knows that his daughter's loyalty is to HIM not to his cause, because he does not want to see his daughter bear his burdens alone and knows that only one man can share that burden joyfully (well, without adding to her burdens at least), because Ra's Al-Ghul is an old man who WILL NOT change and cannot quite bring himself to believe with a whole heart that his DAUGHTER could do as well as a Grandson.
Ra's Al Ghul's issues with his heirs is manifold. Talia is certainly capable of handling the day-to-day operations of the League of Shadows but he's justifiably wary that even if he overcame his own issues with a female heir (and that's quite a lot to ask), his men would find ways of challenging her. Next, more pressing, Talia is a devoted follower of his ideology and lacks the capacity to rise above following in his footsteps (or so he believes). Finally, he doesn't actually want to condemn his daughter to the same level of hard-choices and moral compromises (which he's already failed miserably but is in denial about).

Other heirs he's had over the years and he's had a few, have suffered for the fact that living up to a being as formidable as Ra's Al Ghul is just plain difficult.
Libra wrote: Vandal Savage, on the other hand, is a bloody-minded magnificent bully and a terrifyingly unpredictable b******; for all the clever tricks and subtleties he has learned or otherwise acquired over a fantastically long life (not forgetting the frequently devious complexities of which he is capable), at heart he remains a simple beast and never happier than when living from moment to moment, haring off in pursuit of power or breaking to pieces any that would oppose his ascent to power - or just letting off steam by kicking some poor soul's guts out past his backbone, one boot to the belly at a time.
A million years of life have provided Vandal Savage with a "time abyss" perspective on the world that, as you say, is almost Zen its monstrous indulgence of his ID. He lacks the melancholy of most immortals because he's a psychopath who doesn't care about people enough to get tripped up by their deaths. In short, living forever is AWESOME to Vandal Savage and his staggering healing factor* has kept him alive past incredible damage.

That doesn't mean Vandal Savage is incapable of leading or planning, however. Despite his Joker-like obsession with personal whims, Vandal Savage is quite capable of concentrating for centuries on a single task as even the most heroic levels of focus are like an afternoon nap to him after his first 100,000 years of life.

While completely lacking the magical "spark" that would allow him to become a Sorcerer Supreme no matter how much training he possesses (The Mark of Cain warding off any but demonic patrons), Vandal Savage is an incredibly well-educated Ritualist and capable of pulling off damn near any sort of magical feat given enough time and resources--of which he has both.

Likewise, Vandal Savage is one of the most formidable scientists in the world. He's aware of Atlantean, alien, Wakandan, and other sciences that he stole in a manner similar to Sauron in Numenor. The fact he was quite content to sit in a hut with slave girls and a spear despite knowing technology far in excess of anything short of the 30th century should tell you everything you need to know about him.

Much like Doctor Who's the Master, he's a savage with all the knowledge of a civilized man x100.

* And yes, Vandal Savage is a near-immediate ancestor of a certain short and savage superhero from Canada. Vandal Savage is also the father of Sabertooth, though said individual is unaware of this quality.

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:16 pm

Voltron64 wrote:So who should be next on the agenda, Cyclops? Reverend Stryker and the Purifiers? Namor and Black Panther?
My favorite fan(s) must choose! I can't decide!

:lol:
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Phrozen
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2943
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Phrozen » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:21 pm


Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:37 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
Voltron64 wrote:So who should be next on the agenda, Cyclops? Reverend Stryker and the Purifiers? Namor and Black Panther?
My favorite fan must choose! I can't decide!

:lol:
Okay then, so in order...

1. Cyclops
2. Emma Frost
3. Namor
4. Black Panther
5. Reverend Stryker & The Purifiers
6. How did Darkseid came back anyways?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Locked