The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Charles Phipps
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:13 am

Namor

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Long before Bruce Banner was struck by the United States (illegal) above-ground gamma bomb test, Namor filled the role he did amongst modern superhumans. In short: Is he hero, villain, or both? Namor would say he thinks such a designation is for lesser individuals. This does nothing to ease people's unease about him.

The son of sea captain Leonard Mackenzie and Emperor Thakorr' daughter, Fen, Namor was raised as the pink-skinned mutant child of the Atlantean Royal Family. Growing up an object of scorn and ridicule only slightly less than Tyrion Lannister, Namor devoted himself to the military arts. Stronger than any Atlantean, he was not so strong they could not fight him in groups and he learned many a lesson.

Just not in humility.

Namor's initial attacks on the surface world were motivated by a combination of arrogance, a desire to prove himself, and a need to hit something. Surprisingly, though, Namor found the people of the 1930s surface world slightly more accepting than his Atlantean kin. The affections of police woman, Betty Dean, also softened him to general humanity. Confronted with the threat of the Axis powers, Namor directed his rage completely at evil and found it good.

Namor was never popular with his fellow superheroes of this time, though. While he had fast friendships with his fellow invaders, this was primarily because of their outsider status rather than the fact they were superheroes. The Human Torch was an android shaped like a human, alienated from humanity every bit as much as Namor. Spitfire was a woman driven to succeed in a society that didn't accept her contribution to the war effort. Captain America was, well, Captain America and an idealistic kid in a demigod's body.

The Justice Society find Namor imperious, arrogant, condescending, and a dozen other names. Quite a few questioned his redemption and plenty desired to teach him a lesson, lessons Namor was more than willing to fight back on. About the only members he did get along with were Carter Hall (Hawkman) and Ted Grant (Wildcat).

Ted Grant actually hated the Submariner at first and Namor likewise held the man in contempt. It was realization Wildcat was willing to take a beating against hopeless odds which won the Submariner's respect.
The rest of the Justice Society, of course, would do this. It's just Wildcat would do it in a pointless brawl with a fellow hero just to prove he's not going to back down. What other heroes would label as stupidity, Namor saw as valor.

Which is another reason no one likes him.
Ted Grant reciprocated Namor's respect after the Submariner traveled to Japan to free Wildcat (and 10,000 other American POWs about to be sacrificed to Oda Nobunaga) so they could continue their last bout. After that, Ted and Namor became Vitrolic Best Buds.

The first Wonder Woman, Hippolyta, had a particular distaste for Namor for reasons that you might guess. Atlantean society was less chauvenist than the surface world but Namor thought her someone who should appreciate his intentions toward her. The fact Namor became MORE attracted to her after she beat the living **** about him only made things worse.

Namor was on a mission to impress her when he intercepted Baron Blitzkrieg attempting to destroy Metropolis with a crude alien-created nuclear missile. Namor saved the city but was badly injured during the fight, surviving only due to his mutation. Amnesiac and brain damaged, Namor washed up on the shores of New York City and spent decades recovering. Only the timely intervention of Johnny Storm resulted in him returning to the water and regaining his full powers.

Namor wasn't impressed with the changes to the world in his absence, above or below the waves. The surface worlders had destroyed massive amounts of the oceans and were well on their way to destroying themselves--enough so that Namor has stated, several times, he believes Ra's Al Ghul has the right of things. The underwater kingdoms had fragmented with many electing dictators and someone he despises above nearly all others.

Arthur Curry a.k.a "That cheap golden-haired imitation."

Aquaman, bluntly, considers Namor to be one of his rogues gallery and the two have a duel-to-the-near-death about once a year (ala Sabertooth and Wolverine). Namor generally gets the better of these contests but the fact Aquaman persistently improves and shows greater imagination irritates the Submariner to no end.

A part of Namor, one he deeply represses, actually enjoys facing off against someone so similar and capable of testing him to his limits. His royal dignity would NEVER allow him to acknowledge Aquaman as an equal precisely because of these similarities, however. There's also political concerns as Namor believes himself to be the ruler of ALL Atlantis while Arthur rules a substantial break-away state in Tritanopolis and its surrounding holdings.
Namor has conspicuously NOT attempted to conquer Arthur's territory, however.

The times Aquaman's brother has usurped the throne, though? Yeah, that's a different story.

Arthur has, thus far, managed to throw him out.
Namor's drive to prove himself better than not only Aquaman but all of the Atlanteans who scorned him in his youth have resulted in the monarch improving ties with the surface world. His style of doing so is diametrically opposed to King Arthur Curry. Namor attempts to negotiate from a position of strength in all dealings and even diplomacy tends to sound like not-so veiled threats. Strangely, this works and many nations treat Namor's Atlantis as seriously as one of the U.N. Security Council--a respect Arthur struggles to gain.
This attitude also made him indispensable to both the Illuminati (Doctor Strange, Black Bolt, Professor Xavier, Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Batman, and Hippolyta) and the Cabal (Norman Osbourne, Vandal Savage, Loki, Emma Frost, Doctor Doom, Circe, and the Hood).

It should be noted both Lex Luthor and Ra's Al Ghul have attempted to make alliances with Namor but both failed miserably for various reasons.
Namor has also recently taken up the cause of mutant-human relations, partially because his ego needed the stroking of being one of the most recognizably powerful mutants in the world. There's also the reasonable change Namor was genuinely moved by their plight. Namor hates not being the strongest being in the room but he's quite generous to suitably respectful weaker beings. Unfortunately, this ended with him becoming possessed by the Dark Phoenix and triggering a war with Wakanda--one of the few surface-world nations capable of fighting Atlantis.

Any article on Namor would be incomplete without mentioning the Submariner's appetites. The Submariner has been involved with countless women over the decades with several having attracted his eye more than others. He, in particular, was attracted to Sue Storm and briefly lured her away from her husband. Namor also set his sights on making Wonder Woman his queen, which went over about as well as his attempts to do with her mother. The Submariner's attractions run wild with his affairs including mutants, aliens, humans, hybrids, goddesses, and more. It is said he's inclined towards the unattainable, however, which may indicate he's not too interested in anything serious.
There's also that thing with his cousin. Namor makes no defense, basically saying such attitudes are beneath him. It also helps Aquaria Nautica Neptunia (Namora) is beautiful, heroic, a fellow hybrid, and one of the few Atlanteans to treat him with any kind of decency growing up.

A bit far from the Lannisters, there.
Namor the Submariner's strength has grown and faded over the years. At peak power, he is fully capable of beating Superman up. God knows, Namor has tried.
Superman taking him to near-space showed this was a very bad idea and is one of the few times the Submariner has been humbled.
Unfortunately, his power level is near-mystically tied to his proximity to the ocean so a battle in a desert or other arid environment will rapidly weaken him. Armed with the Trident of Neptune, however, Namor will never lose his strength and he's fully capable of taking precautions to maintain his strength in other environments. He just rarely does because that would be a sign of weakness.
Also, take note, Namor's strength is so much greater than his fellow Atlanteans BECAUSE of his human heritage. For whatever bizarre reason, hybrids are possessed of multipled levels of strength once they reach adulthood.

This does nothing to reduce Atlantean racism.
Namor is also possessed of the mutant power of flight, which has nothing to do with his Atlantean abilities.
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Sidious » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:09 am

Love the recent updates. I'm enjoying reading all of them. :)
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:07 pm

Sidious wrote:Love the recent updates. I'm enjoying reading all of them. :)
Great to hear! This thread is a nice way to let my creativity regenerate.

:mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:18 pm

OK, so all that's left on my list of suggested characters are Black Panther and Reverend Stryker.

Plus I think Captain America is way overdue on this thread. :wink:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by hypervirtue » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:32 pm

Frank Castle

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The story of Frank Castle is not a happy story...

He lived a relatively normal life as a child, then as a teenager, when he reached the age of adulthood he enlisted in the US Marine Corps after marrying his wife Maria who had become pregnant with his son. He served with honor and distinction in his first tour, and eventually was discharged.

Things back at home did not go well however. Maria became pregnant again, but something inside of Frank Castle had already changed. Frank Castle illegally enlisted in the US Marine Corps again, this time utilizing a fake name, because he could not shake the call to battle. He managed to serve two tours before his deception was discovered, though Frank was not discharged, and instead was given the task of training Black Ops Recon squads from a location in New York City.

Editor's Note: Yeah, I'm totally not making that up. Most people aren't aware that Frank wasn't right in the head BEFORE the events regarding his family. He always was a psychopath.

While on leave Frank took his family to the park on a planned outing. What they did not count on was that they would arrive in time to witness a mob killing. Not wanting there to be any witnesses the Mafia decided to execute Frank Castle and his family.

While Castle survived the attack, his family did not. His already battle-hungry psyche was broken further due to the trauma. This would eventually become compounded...

Castle wanted to testify against the mobsters that killed his family but the police, due to the corrupt members on the payroll of the mafia, would not allow it. They thanked him for his willingness. They gave condolences for his family, then they asked him to leave.

Frank Castle, consumed by rage and a need to punish those who had taken his family from him, accepted psychiatric discharge from the Marine Corps. He outfitted himself with weapons, and a stylized suit of conventional battle armor, and decided to take justice into his own hands. He not only killed the mobsters that slew his family, he began to expand, and even saw some degree of success...

That success however simply couldn't last...

Frank Castle became aware of the Falcone crime family during one of their visits to the other families in New York. Deciding to take the scum off the streets he followed them back to their home city of Gotham, determined to take them out once and for all. This was one of Castle's biggest mistakes.

Castle arrived in Gotham and began his operations. Small acts at first, nobody in crime-ridden Gotham, not even the fabled Batman, noticed him at first. As he used his time and his skills to learn more about the Falcone family however, whispers began to spread through the city. As he prepared to launch an attack on their main compound, Gotham PD, with a tip-off from the organized crime families of Gotham, prepared to launch a raid of their own.

Castle was caught off-guard by the sudden arrival of the GPD at the warehouse he was operating out of. GPD was used to handling crazy, resourceful, and well-equipped targets, much more so than the police of Frank's native New York. They managed to box him in and Castle prepared to make a run at an escape.

GPD was no match for Castle's skill and resourcefulness, but someone in Gotham certainly was...

As Castle fled into the night he was surprised to be suddenly knocked to the ground from an attack that came from above and behind. As he rolled over his rifle was kicked from his hands. At that moment Frank was facing down the Batman.

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The battle raged between the two vigilantes but in the end Castle refused to use lethal force against the Batman, as he did not see the Dark Knight as a criminal. Batman, however, knew that he had to put a stop to the Punisher's murder-spree.

In the end the Dark Knight was the victor.

Wanted for crimes in New York and Gotham City the two cities vied for the right to prosecute Castle. While the legal jurisdiction battle raged Frank Castle was deemed Criminally Insane and was remanded to Arkham Asylum pending the decision by the judiciary powers.

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This, of course, was accomplished due to the interference of the Gotham crime families. Frank Castle had a bounty on his head and was supposed to be segregated from the general population of Arkham. However when a guard "carelessly" left Frank an open cell door, the Punisher attempted to make his escape. Unfortunately that escape attempt was according to plan...

As he attempted to escape Arkham he was cornered by a host of inmates. Leading the charge was the inmate known as the Scarecrow. After Frank was subjected to a heavy dose of fear toxin, despite valiant attempts to fight back, succumbed to the effects. Castle managed to wound the Scarecrow but was delusional, facing demons that existed in his own mind, he attacked peaceful inmates and orderlies alike.

When he fled into the main ward, near the exit, police officers on the scene... Who had received hefty bribes themselves... Reacted to "protect" themselves and the doctors of Arkham. Frank Castle was gunned down in the main lobby of Arkham Asylum. He had suffered over a dozen wounds, at least two of which struck him in the head...

At last the Punisher was dead...

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This... However... Would not be the end for Frank Castle...

Indeed this was a chance that the Lords of Order could not pass up...

For many years the Specter was a being that was grafted to a host, usually against the desire's of the host, this always put the Spirit of Vengeance at odds with its host. This, the Lords saw, was an opportunity to break the cycle...

Frank Castle was driven by his need for Vengeance, the Spectre required a human soul... The two were a perfect match.

At the words of the Phantom Stranger, with the power of Doctor Fate, the consensus of Shazam, and the word of Princess Amethyst, the Lords of Order bound the two souls together...

To this day they speak in hushed tones of that union, wondering if they did the right thing, each stating that they felt a twinge of unbridled terror as the new Spectre spoke his first words...

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"The Guilty Shall Be Punished..."
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:44 pm

Voltron64 wrote:OK, so all that's left on my list of suggested characters are Black Panther and Reverend Stryker.

Plus I think Captain America is way overdue on this thread. :wink:
You've been conspicuously silent on these picks!

I'm shocked.

Clearly, you're plotting something!

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:49 pm

Also, was Vandal Savage alive before the Celestials came to Earth or after?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:58 pm

Hypervirtue, I salute you because that is a better-than-wikipedia thematic adaptation of the Punisher. Few people remember the "Frank Castle becomes an agent of the Lord" period and there's a good reason for that but it almost works here.

Bravo!
Editor's Note: Yeah, I'm totally not making that up. Most people aren't aware that Frank wasn't right in the head BEFORE the events regarding his family. He always was a psychopath.
Frank Castle was originally just a direct copy of revenge-porn Founding Father, Mack Bolan (who is still being published!), but the idea he's always been seriously disturbed is an idea which goes a long way to explaining his various ideas. I particularly like Warren Ellis' take, which is unsentimental about the fact Frank is an Ax-Crazy Blood Knight who is pretty much the gun-wielding version of Dexter.
Castle wanted to testify against the mobsters that killed his family but the police, due to the corrupt members on the payroll of the mafia, would not allow it. They thanked him for his willingness. They gave condolences for his family, then they asked him to leave.
Sliding time-scale prevents us from giving exact dates but the year before Batman, Spiderman, Superman, and Daredevil came to their respective cities was a hell for "The New York Tri-Cities" of NYU, Gotham, and Metropolis.

The Falcone family ruled Gotham City but Wilson Fisk had recently overthrown Don Rigoletto and united not only the crime-families of the city but also joined the Mafia with the Maggia. Metropolis was a hellhole that Lex Luthor used laundered money for Intergang through in order to build his own crooked technologies firm.

In short, the police were helpless on a level rivaling Columbia during the Cali days.
As Castle fled into the night he was surprised to be suddenly knocked to the ground from an attack that came from above and behind. As he rolled over his rifle was kicked from his hands. At that moment Frank was facing down the Batman.
It should be noted no one particularly missed the corrupt cops that day and no one has yet to tie these deaths to the Punisher. It's why the Punisher maintains some of his present day popularity even today with law enforcement. Batman, however, was shaken by his encounter with such an individual during his early career and it helped formalize his idea he'd never use lethal force even in self-defense.
To this day they speak in hushed tones of that union, wondering if they did the right thing, each stating that they felt a twinge of unbridled terror as the new Spectre spoke his first words...
For those who want a traditional Punisher and Specter, the scary thing? The Specter raised Frank Castle from the dead after his term--having determined he was a poor choice for bestowing compassion and limits on his host.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:03 pm

Voltron64 wrote:Also, was Vandal Savage alive before the Celestials came to Earth or after?
Vandal Savage's meteorite, which was a fragment of the Starheart, was filled with mystical energies which infused his Cro-Mag form and transformed him in a manner similar to Captain America. Up until modern times (about 10,000 or so B.C), Vandal Savage was the height of beauty as well as strength.

It also activated Vandal Savage's latent mutant genes that had been inserted in his ancestors by the Celestials. As a result, Vandal Savage is the ancestor of a RIDICULOUS number of modern humans who carry around his anachronistic D.N.A.

It also allowed him to assume an important role in Wolverine's life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_%28comics%29

The thing is, Savage has actually kind of ****ed up the Celestial's plan. In addition to spreading "super-healing, savage" genes, Savage has also been spreading a large number of hereditary conditions like psychopathy and rage issues across the human race that Natural Selection was supposed to have wiped out.

In a very real way, Savage is a reason we're such a naughty-naughty species as we're ALL descended from him now.
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:05 pm

I wonder how the Celestials would react to how Savage messed up their plan? :twisted:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:07 pm

Plus I bet Savage's soul would be priceless in hell.
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:10 pm

Voltron64 wrote:I wonder how the Celestials would react to how Savage messed up their plan? :twisted:
Stand there, towering over the city, unmoving, beautiful and yet...mysterious.

Inside? They're thinking, "Well S***."
Voltron wrote:Plus I bet Savage's soul would be priceless in hell.
Valuable souls can be measured in two ways: the very-very wicked and the very-very good (or once very-very good).

Mephisto and quite a few demons have lines on Vandal's soul they're rather interested in collecting. Dumping Vandal in hell would be a semi-decent way of disposing of him.

(Villains always think they can bargain out of hell--this is not the case, unless you're John Constantine).

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:13 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
Voltron64 wrote:I wonder how the Celestials would react to how Savage messed up their plan? :twisted:
Stand there, towering over the city, unmoving, beautiful and yet...mysterious.

Inside? They're thinking, "Well S***."
And then Savage would be f***ed like he's never been before?
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Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:16 pm

Voltron64 wrote:And then Savage would be f***ed like he's never been before?
More like attempt to exterminate all of Savage's descendants en masse. Thus, necessitating the heroes to save the world from them.

The Celestials are the guys behind Apocalypse after all.

Though sending Apocalypse against Savage would be HILARIOUS.

That's one fight I doubt he'd win.

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AQUAMAN

Post by Libra » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:35 pm

The major difference between Aquaman and Namor can best be summed up thus; Aquaman may not be cool, but he's admirably level-headed.

Son of Atlana, Princess of Poseidonis and Arthur Thomas Curry of Maine, also foster-son of Porm ('Queen of Dolphins' as Arthur still affectionately refers to her, long after her demise) and occasionally vexed with claims of Paternity from the magus Atlan - who took little interest in Arthur's upbringing but takes considerable interest in the career of any claimant to the Atlantean throne - Aquaman has had a long experience of the cruelties and kindnesses which the World and it's residents (both Terrestrial and Undersea) can deal out since the day he was abandoned on Mercy Reef as an infant, condemned to death by exposure for fear of the Curse that had left him marked with Golden Hair and that strange connection to the life of the Oceans which very likely played a key role in attracting the foster-mother who would save him from the starvation, saving his life.

That keen awareness of the harsh realities of the world, tempered by an equal awareness of it's residents capacity for kindness thanks to the efforts of Porm, his father and a number of other individuals whom he met in the course of his youthful Odyssey across the face of the Oceans has left Aquaman a character prone to brooding, but determined to avoid letting any habit of introspection cut him off from the world outside himself.

It has also left him determined to shield those less fortunate than himself from dangers against which they have no other protection - Atlantean, Sea-Life, Surface Dweller, if you are in trouble and he's the one closest Aquaman is going to try helping you because … well, Noblesse Oblige isn't quite the right term since Aquaman doesn't think in such highfalutin' language, but it's accurate enough: he's stronger, tougher and more supernaturally powerful than many (even as just an upper-middling powerful superhuman in his own right) so it's only sensible that he take responsibility for dealing with those strange threats that few other natives of the Oceans can or will handle.

Which is a good thing because much as he loves them fish aren't very bright on average and Humans can be almost equally stupid when they put those fine sentient minds to the challenge, especially when they ignore little practicalities like morality, sanity and safety protocols in the process - or when tribalism and xenophobia raises it's ugly head and peanut-sized-brain; quite frankly a major reason Aquaman is simultaneously respected and resented in they varied city-states of Atlantis is that he puts The Oceans first (since while fish can fend for themselves, they have a pretty difficult time of it in the Political Arena).


Oh and as far as 'Aquaman Jokes' go … if they're funny enough Arthur will be the one laughing loudest afterwards; quite frankly life is too rough and too short to go around scowling when someone makes a good-natured funny - the fact that he is (1) married to ridiculously good-looking redhead who he adores (2) A senior member in good standing of one of the best-loved superhero teams on the Planet, amongst whom number some of his best friends (3) King of a Realm which he loves and which mostly loves him for his valour in return (4) Powerful enough to twist the average punk into intricate knots and (5) A grown-up rather helps him maintain an admirably thick skin when it comes to jokes at his expense.

Roleplaying Notes: I'm not sure that the write-up above is one of my best characterisations, so I'll close here by offering some commentary that I hope will present my mental image of Aquaman more clearly.

Put simply Arthur is an old sea-dog in the body of a demigod - a large, imposing superhuman best described as 'the body of Michael Phelps with the head of Vladmir Kulich (also a beard and hook)' - with the confidence and hint of the exotic to match; in general he enjoys his Adventures even more than he does telling others about them, displays the protective instincts of a pack-sire wolf in Bear Country (laugh at him if you like, mock others in his presence and there will be WORDS … oh and don't try hurting his loved ones, you'll live longer and in better health), gives every evidence of an almost bombastic love of life when happy (especially in the company of friends) and will display a truly terrifying fury when angered (silent, but all the more frightening for that and the lengths to which one must go to provoke him).

In short when he's in a bad mood model him on Justice League/Unlimited and when he's in a good mood channel Batman: The Brave and the Bold; just remember that Aquaman will always do his best to look on the bright side of life and tends to turn truly boisterous only in the presence of family or close friends.

In terms of superpower, remember that Aquaman is potent, but not quite in the first rank in terms of personal power; he DOES however very capably compensate for this with clever employment of political influence and power (although this requires clever management of competing interests), as well as a genuine willingness to learn what he needs to know in order to become a better hero - his ability to manipulate water has been taught to him by, amongst others, Mera his Queen, for instance.

He's quite aware that he isn't the best team-leader out there, but he has force of character and a willingness to take the lead when no-one else can or will.

It should be noted that that Aquaman is a shrewd politician, even if he's not as good at administration or organisation as he is at those parts of Kingship that requires inter-personal relations, as well as an actual personality! (also a touch impatient with persistent obstructionism).
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