The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Discuss Freedom City, Paragons, Wild Cards, or your own campaign settings here.
Locked
EnigmaticOne
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 8135
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:22 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:Nice profile on Waller, EO.

I always wondered how she fit into all this craziness.

She and Henry Gyrich must hate each other.
Yep. She sees him as a politically connected idjit, who distrusts the cape community for a load of stupidity. Waller doesn't trust the meat-grunts of the Squad, or a lot of others she has to deal with, but espionage innately requires being able to turn them to your benefit regardless.

Gygrich lacks that tact to make the best of things.

Separate note, there are a few senior Squad standbys who are trusted, Waller's lieutenants as it were. Colonel Rick Flagg, of course, plus Temple Fugate, the former Clock King, and Gabriel Fielding, a young metahuman with enhanced tactical and strategic skills (like Midnighter, but without the enhanced physical abilities though). The latter two form the basic rear-echelon mission control and brain squad.
Impeach the peach!

Image

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:34 pm

EnigmaticOne wrote:
Charles Phipps wrote:Nice profile on Waller, EO.

I always wondered how she fit into all this craziness.

She and Henry Gyrich must hate each other.
Yep. She sees him as a politically connected idjit, who distrusts the cape community for a load of stupidity. Waller doesn't trust the meat-grunts of the Squad, or a lot of others she has to deal with, but espionage innately requires being able to turn them to your benefit regardless.

Gyrich lacks that tact to make the best of things.
Has she considered having him killed or otherwise "take care of"?

Because I recommend a guy named Phil who could do that for her. :wink:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

EnigmaticOne
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 8135
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:52 pm

Voltron64 wrote:
EnigmaticOne wrote:
Charles Phipps wrote:Nice profile on Waller, EO.

I always wondered how she fit into all this craziness.

She and Henry Gyrich must hate each other.
Yep. She sees him as a politically connected idjit, who distrusts the cape community for a load of stupidity. Waller doesn't trust the meat-grunts of the Squad, or a lot of others she has to deal with, but espionage innately requires being able to turn them to your benefit regardless.

Gyrich lacks that tact to make the best of things.
Has she considered having him killed or otherwise "take care of"?

Because I recommend a guy named Phil who could do that for her. :wink:
Sorry, she doesn't think that's a fruitful route. Also, suborning and sending in a SHIELD agent, particularly that one would just be a cluster$*^*
Impeach the peach!

Image

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:55 pm

EnigmaticOne wrote: Sorry, she doesn't think that's a fruitful route. Also, suborning and sending in a SHIELD agent, particularly that one would just be a cluster$*^*
But we'd all wanna see that cluster****, wouldn't we? :mrgreen:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

greycrusader
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 1876
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:30 am
Location: 15 Mechling Way Greensurg PA 15601

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by greycrusader » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:52 pm

Does anyone have thoughts about the various analogues inhabiting the combined universe, such as The Squadron Sinister/Squadron Supreme and Gladiator of the Shi'ar (and a few of his Imperial Guardsmen brethren)? Marvel does seem to be the greater perpetrator in this regard, btw, though DC is not entirely without their share of doppelgangers.

For example, did the Grandmaster imbue four individuals with powers and abilities aping those of Superman, Batman, the Flash, and Green Lantern to form the Squadron Sinister as he did on Earth-616, or simply gather together a similarly empowered group and pit them against the Avengers? Hence, perhaps the Squadron Sinister of the 777-universe consisted of an Azrael (not necessarily Jean-Paul Valley), an earlier version of the Eradicator, Rival (Jay Garrick's evil counterpart), and Blackrock?

Throwing this one open for consideration.
The Contingent: When all other super teams fail...

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:29 pm

greycrusader wrote:Does anyone have thoughts about the various analogues inhabiting the combined universe, such as The Squadron Sinister/Squadron Supreme and Gladiator of the Shi'ar (and a few of his Imperial Guardsmen brethren)? Marvel does seem to be the greater perpetrator in this regard, btw, though DC is not entirely without their share of doppelgangers.

For example, did the Grandmaster imbue four individuals with powers and abilities aping those of Superman, Batman, the Flash, and Green Lantern to form the Squadron Sinister as he did on Earth-616, or simply gather together a similarly empowered group and pit them against the Avengers? Hence, perhaps the Squadron Sinister of the 777-universe consisted of an Azrael (not necessarily Jean-Paul Valley), an earlier version of the Eradicator, Rival (Jay Garrick's evil counterpart), and Blackrock?

Throwing this one open for consideration.
If someone wanted to do an article on it, I'd be inclined to go this way:

* The Shi'ar Royal Guard was an inspiration for L.E.G.I.O.N and recruited from many worlds in the DC Universe's galaxy with the Strontian species being a near-Kryptonian species due to interbreeding with them when the Kryptonians were more interested in space-travel.

* I'd make the Squadron Supreme flat-out an alternate version of the Justice League.

* The Squadron Sinister's insult was probably a bit more deliberate with the Grandmaster knowing the Squadron Supreme from previous visits to their reality. I imagine he also perhaps created "The Vengeance League" of nasty Avengers to attack the Justice League.

I think said team would be awesome, though, and something the Grandmaster SHOULD have recruited.

* I assume Nighthawk really *IS* just a Bruce Wayne/Batman wannabe in this setting.

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:33 pm

Voltron64 wrote:But we'd all wanna see that cluster****, wouldn't we? :mrgreen:
In Amanda Waller's case, I tend to think of her as a clear case of Lawful Neutral with Mister Gyrich being that with Evil tendencies. Amanda Waller believes herself to be the woman who cleans up the rest of the government's **** while Gyrich has that view of himself yet is the cause of about 90% of it. Even so, it's ludicrous that Gyrich is actually LEFT of the Anti-Mutant Lobby given he's a bigot but doesn't actually want mutants rounded up into camps or "cured." He just wants a bunch of giant robots in case Magneto shows up again.

Waller, by contrast, is much like Vimes from Discworld. She isn't a bigot against mutants. She hates everybody. Also, she's smart enough to see Sentinels as the kind of ridiculously STUPID waste of taxpayer dollars they are. She's much more inclined to hire mutant assassins to deal with mutant problems* and is more likely to send a single man with a plastic gun to kill Magneto than try to overwhelm him with brute force.

As such, Magneto considers her considerably more dangerous than Gyrich.

It's quite likely that Raven Darkholme's period of working for the government and leading the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (as "Freedom Force") was under Waller's supervision too.

* It almost worked too.

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:14 am

Reverend Stryker

Image

William Stryker is notable for the fact he was Number 1# on the FBI's Most Wanted list for decade, a list which is usually reserved for a variety of supercriminals and serial-killers, and he was only occasionally thrown off by the Joker's lengthier escapes from Arkham.

What's more interesting about William Stryker is the crimes he's committed are predominately against mutants and political pressure has long ignored those. Somehow, though, the Reverend has successfully become so repulsive that even the bigoted masses now despise him with a gross fury.

Killing children will do that.

William Stryker's background consists of a nebulous military service involving a great number of foreign postings. Research by Professor Xavier's contacts in the "not completely psychotic or stupid" portion of the government has indicated he may have been a guard in the Weapon Plus program.

It's a question whether William Stryker learned his appalling hatred of mutants during his time in the concentration-camp-like conditions of this program or whether he was recruited precisely because of his hatred. Professor X, of course, would say there's no need to separate the two as they're quite able to feed each other.

Stryker's bias was like so many other real-life bigots in that it didn't come from any source but he sought out sources to justify it. In this case, Stryker chose religion as a means of providing himself a comfort. Given the Holy Bible is noticeably lacking on passages dealing with eye-beams and wings, the Reverend had to develop his own theology about the subject.
Many individuals are curious about Reverend Stryker's ministry and how he justifies Christian-based anti-mutant rhetoric. I'm sorry to say someone looking for something well-written or interesting must look elsewhere. Reverend Stryker's writings are crude, to-the-point, and theologically unsound. What they are, however, are loud and self-satisfied. Two qualities that individuals seeking to have their biases confirmed are happy to enjoy.

Sample quotes from Reverend Stryker's ministry include:

"Only God should have superpowers."
"Jesus wasn't a mutant."
"Mutants coming back from the dead mocks Jesus."
"God sent a flood to kill the first mutants."

And so on. He's very good at buzz words and catchphrases which, bluntly, make no ****ing sense.

Much, again, like real bigots.
The crowning moment of Reverend Stryker’s developing psychosis was when his wife gave birth to an obvious mutant baby, something he killed both her and the child for. Reverend Stryker could not deal with the guilt of his action but he couldn’t repent of it either so he decided his wife was infected by Satan. Reverend Stryker decided that God had sent him on a mission to kill all mutants in the world—an action he’d already been contemplating but had yet to find the impetuous for.

Reverend Stryker’s Crusade, initially, was a complete failure. He tried to start in Smallville and a man named Jonathan Kent ended up driving him out. Later attempts to do work in Keystone City and other parts of the heartland failed. Sadly, Magneto’s then-very public attempts to intimidate the government gave Reverend Stryker the kind of “evil mutant” to build his rhetoric around.

Worse, Reverend Stryker received support from a number of extremely lucrative backers. These included Glorious Godfrey, a then-popular anti-metahuman talk-show host. Reverend Stryker was enchanted by Godfrey's suggestions and rapidly became an almost supernaturally-charismatic speaker. Eventually, Godfrey took Reverend Stryker to Apokolips where he met with Darkseid. Faced with the living embodiment of Tyranny in a supernatural form, Reverend Stryker fell to his knees and decided he'd had an encounter with God himself.

Reverend Stryker agreed to become a promoter of Darkseid's agenda and secretly started arming his newly-named Purifiers with Apokoliptian technology. Reverend Stryker envisioned an apocalyptic (no pun intended) battle between humans and mutants before God returned to purify the world with a word, an equation if you will, that would end sin. In short, Reverend Stryker was shown the events of Final Crisis and was left with the mission to eliminate the sort of people who might thwart it.

Mutants, of course, being high on that list.

Reverend Stryker ended up proving a colossal waste of time for Darkseid, getting himself arrested for shooting Kitty Pryde during his first major rally (and one could not pick a more photogenic, innocent-looking mutant to challenge public opinion).

Later, he would end up being rescued by Lady Deathstrike on Glorious Godfrey's payroll. Reverend Stryker proved his hypocrisy by sleeping with the cyborg Japanese assassin despite her inhumanity. Reverend Stryker attempted to give up his crusade for a time, briefly having a moment of realization who he was truly serving, only to fall back under sway due to his own pride.
Better to serve the Devil by claiming to serve God than admit you were wrong.

Stryker even managed to fool himself some days.
Ultimately, Reverend Stryker lost all credibility with the public at large after the events of the Decimation. Reverend Stryker's Purifiers targeted hundreds of depowered mutants and murdered them all in a public and brutal manner. His most heinous act was, inarguably, the murder of 41 depowered children leaving the X-mansion. The outrage by every superhero group in the world was amazing with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman using their abilities to smash the Purifier network as best they could.

However, it was the X-men's retaliation that made the entire thing worse. Scott Summers, wracked with guilt over his failure to protect his most vulnerable students in their hour of need, repealed the X-men's prohibition against killing. Much like the Green Lantern Corps, they decided they were no longer policing humanity's worst but engaging in warfare. Reverend Stryker's domestic terrorist organization was slaughtered to the man by X-Force, preventing it from ever coming close to its mission of fighting Darkseid's war.
The action did, however, alienate the X-men from the Justice League for a time. However justified, the League tends to frown on death squads.
Against all sense, Darkseid would raise William Stryker from the dead during the events of Final Crisis and Stryker would possess a pair of transplanted wings cloned from Archangel. He achieved little, however, and was witness to the destruction of his dream. Wolverine tracked him down during this battle and finished him off, at last ending the evil of the mutant-hating Man of God.

Or has it?

Despite the fact he's not shown any sign of being married or in any other relationships after his wife's death, a man has taken his name and is carrying on the Purifier's work through DVDs, the internet, and other concealed recruitment methods. They also show no sign of running out of funding, weapons, or equipment--albeit, possessing slight recruitment problems due to universal superhero distaste for the organization.
Also, the slight issue of betraying humanity during an alien invasion.
Who is William Stryker, Junior and what is his agenda? Is he an imposter, the Reverend resurrected, or something more sinister?

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:12 am

How did Stryker even mistake Darkseid for God after taking a glimpse at him and Apokalips?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:40 am

Voltron64 wrote:How did Stryker even mistake Darkseid for God after taking a glimpse at him and Apokalips?
My thoughts on potential explanations?

A. Darkseid wished Stryker to worship him and simply brushed his mind with his essence, enough to break a weak-willed self-justifying man as himself.

B. Stryker's mind snapped when he was taken to another world to meet a demonic Space God and he hit 0 SAN on a Call of Cthulhuean level.

C. The New Gods are perceived as how they want to be or how mortals would perceive them--and Darkseid is exactly how Stryker has always perceived God.

A vindictive enemy of free will and hateful punisher of anything which disobeys his slightest whim.

D. Mind-controlling Glorious Godfrey said, "I'm taking you to see God" and Stryker's mind interpreted everything as halos, rainbows, and unicorns from that point on.

E. Stryker is just that ****ed up.

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:51 am

F. All of the above.
Charles Phipps wrote: C. The New Gods are perceived as how they want to be or how mortals would perceive them--and Darkseid is exactly how Stryker has always perceived God.

A vindictive enemy of free will and hateful punisher of anything which disobeys his slightest whim.
So like this guy?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:57 am

Pretty much.

Amusingly, Jack Kirby was a very religious guy but his view of the Godly Folk was the Hippie Free-Love Folk while the Demonic was all about Order. The ultimate evil incarnate being the Anti-Life Equation, literally taking free thought away and making people puppets. "Killing" them.

I always liked that since Order usually gets associated with Good and evil with chaos.

Charles Phipps
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 7867
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:09 pm
Location: Ashland, Ky
Contact:

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:02 am

If Darkseid is going to return in Earth-777, I'd say that Darkseid using the Anti-Life Equation on Earth means that he's imprinted a part of his essence on humanity.

As long as evil exists in humanity, literally, Darkseid will return.

Superman's response?

"And we'll be there to stop you."

Edit:

Oh and this is demented.

http://cissie-king.livejournal.com/13838.html

EnigmaticOne
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 8135
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:32 am

Charles Phipps wrote:
Voltron64 wrote:But we'd all wanna see that cluster****, wouldn't we? :mrgreen:
In Amanda Waller's case, I tend to think of her as a clear case of Lawful Neutral with Mister Gyrich being that with Evil tendencies. Amanda Waller believes herself to be the woman who cleans up the rest of the government's **** while Gyrich has that view of himself yet is the cause of about 90% of it. Even so, it's ludicrous that Gyrich is actually LEFT of the Anti-Mutant Lobby given he's a bigot but doesn't actually want mutants rounded up into camps or "cured." He just wants a bunch of giant robots in case Magneto shows up again.

Waller, by contrast, is much like Vimes from Discworld. She isn't a bigot against mutants. She hates everybody. Also, she's smart enough to see Sentinels as the kind of ridiculously STUPID waste of taxpayer dollars they are. She's much more inclined to hire mutant assassins to deal with mutant problems* and is more likely to send a single man with a plastic gun to kill Magneto than try to overwhelm him with brute force.

As such, Magneto considers her considerably more dangerous than Gyrich.

It's quite likely that Raven Darkholme's period of working for the government and leading the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (as "Freedom Force") was under Waller's supervision too.

* It almost worked too.
Exactly, Charles. Although it actually was Deadshot with a plastic sniper rifle. Mystique spoiled his aim before it was too late, but it still put Magneto out of commission for a few weeks.
Impeach the peach!

Image

Voltron64
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2668
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:12 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:41 am

So any Marvel villains been part of the Suicide Squad?

And is there any connection between them and the Thunderbolts in Earth-777?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

Locked