The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Daibhid C
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Daibhid C » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:04 pm

Talking of alternate worlds has got me thinking. Which is always dangerous. :D

Charles wrote an excellent piece on how DC characters experienced House of M, so what about other reality-altering events? Here's my thoughts on one of them.
  • Marvel characters in Flashpoint
  • Captain America is the US Government’s greatest hero, putting Cyborg in second place. At least he was, until William Burnside’s mental problems became impossible to ignore, which in this universe only happened last year (not because he was any more stable, but because his handlers were very good at ignoring the problem). Currently, John Walker is being trained as his replacement, and the government is almost certain this one won’t go crazy.

    (Walker's costume, incidentally, is very similar to the Steve Rogers: Super Soldier outfit more recently sported by Nick Fury Jr., exept that the stripes are red, as is the circle in the middle, with the white star somewhat larger than the circle. In keeping with the Flashpoint conceit that characters are drawn to red or yellow as costume colours, and logos that protrude from the edges of a circle.)
  • Captain Frank Castle runs a squad of the New York Police Special Powers Department, which is basically the Punishment Police from 2099 sent back in time ninety years. Formed by Deputy Commissioner Dean Swaybrick, the SPD has broad-ranging powers which basically mean Castle and his team (Carlos Cruz, Jimmy Pierce, Lynn Michaels, Eddie Dyson, Rachel Cole-Alves, and Amazonian Occupation refugee Nigel Higgins, with David Leiberman on tech support) can shoot anyone they want. Surprisingly, the fact his personal narrative has gone from “lone vigilante bringing down the scum the police can’t catch” to “leader of a squad of authorised police officers” has made Castle more thoughtful about his actions and less inclined to shoot first, and then shoot again if it looks like anyone might be capable of answering questions.
  • New York’s “official” superhero group is the Iron Men, a group of armoured heroes led by ... James Rhodes/Iron Patriot. Other members are Pepper Potts/Rescue, Kevin O’Brien/Guardsman, Bethany Cabe/Iron Woman, Clay Wilson/Force, Eddie March/Freak and Happy Hogan/War Machine. Tony Stark just funds them, designs the armour, and stays safely in his penthouse like a millionaire playboy should. Their greatest enemies are the Iron Goblins, a cult-like group with armour based on stolen Stark designs, who secretly work for the Stane-Osborn Conglomerate.
  • Since the Iron Men’s bird’s eye view often doesn’t let them see what’s actually going on, New York is also defended by a loose gang of heroes known as the Street Avengers. They don’t have costumes (unless you count the Venom symbiote) but they do have gang names. The leader is Carl “Cage” Lucas.

    Lucas’s gang started out as an aimless group just defending their neighbourhood against worse gangs. The only reason they weren’t serious criminals was more due to lack of opportunity than judgement. But as, much to his own astonishment, Lucas’s territory grew, his aim grew from “keep the other gangs out” to “clean up the streets”. In fact, it has now reached the point where a wealthy industrialist with deep spiritual beliefs is providing them with a headquarters and equipment to maintain order.

    Lucas is not happy about this. Actually, Lucas is never happy about anything and does not get on with the police, the SPD, the Iron Men, his own teammates, or anyone else much. However, he reserves particular hatred for the guy bankrolling the operation, since he has money and is therefore automatically suspect. In fact, Lucas makes a point of not even remembering his backer’s name; he’s just “the guy from the Rand Corporation”.

    Cage's loyal, but edgy, second in command is Peter “Venom” Parker. After his guardians were killed in a home invasion, Peter went on the run from foster care, and encountered a strange alien symbiote which he sensed wanted to protect him. Today, he beats up criminals who remind him of the one that killed Uncle Ben and Aunt May, and the symbiote just seems content to beat people up. He has no detectable sense of humour.

    Matt “Devil” Murdock is the brains of the outfit. Matt once dreamt of becoming a lawyer. His blindness didn’t prevent that; what did was having to look after a brain-damaged father after the Fixer’s guy decided to make absolutely sure Battling Jack took the fall he’d agreed to. He joined the gang out of a genuine desire for justice, which makes him pretty much unique. It also gives him a tendency to argue with Lucas on a regular basis. (His nickname is a subtle reference to both this and his thwarted ambition. It was intended by Lucas as an insult, but Matt happily adopted it.)

    The fourth senior member is Ben “Rock” Grimm. While everyone else has some kind of superpower, Ben -- a recruit from one of the gangs whose territory Lucas took over – is just a big guy who knows how to hit people. And sometimes, that’s all you need.
  • Mutants are (surprise!) hated and feared, with an internment camp where the Xavier school should be. Some have been pressurised into “proving their loyalty” by joining the Freedom Fighters, who are basically Freedom Force led by Cyclops.
  • Wakanda is a country under siege, the only part of Africa that hasn't been subsumed into the Empire of Grodd. It is protected both by its advanced technology and by the weather-control powers of its ruler, the Panther Bride.
  • Clint Barton was one of the acts at the Haley Circus when it got trapped in Austria, and used his bow to good effect before being killed by the Amazon agent Thundra. His death was avenged by the East European spy Natasha Romanova, codenamed Redback.
  • The Braddock twins are members of the British resistance under the names Union Jack and Psifire (Betsy chose that name after it became quite clear that Pspitfire didn’t work and Psitfire wasn’t much better). Brian never met Merlyn and got his powers in this reality.
  • Because the Flashpoint world can always use more random disaster areas, the Atomic Wastes that save the Great Ten from needing to worry about a large chunk of the Asian Territories pretty much tell you what happened to Radioactive Man.
  • Asgardia, formerly Scandinavia, is a third power in the Amazon/Atlantis war that rages across Europe. Although it mostly maintains a defensive position, it is not unknown for Thor to take the battle to the enemy. It is also rumoured that Loki may have made deals with both sides, although what precisely he might have dealt for remains unknown.
That's all I've come up with, any more ideas?

Coming up: DC characters in the Age of Apocalypse!
Last edited by Daibhid C on Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Daibhid C » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:08 pm

Libra wrote: Another idea that I have played around with is that Angor was left so badly beaten up by the era of the Meta-Militia that it's heroes needed outside help and received it only after Batman and Superman were able to con old Myx into bringing the Maximums back into existence (no-one has ANY idea how they managed it, but rumours abound).
I like it.

An idea I was toying with was that the world of the Meta-Militia was distinct from the world of the Champions, and -- if Angor was combined with Squadron-Earth -- was in fact the same world as Supreme Power, but maybe that's complicating things needlessly. (It was going to tie into a theory that the Earth One hardcovers took place in the DCU-Marvel counterpart of the Ultimate Universe, but I couldn't quite get that to work.)

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:38 pm

That is in fact another credible take on things! :D

I confess that I haven't really codified my take on The Squadron Supreme or The Champions of Angor, but I'm working on the inspiration that they're better off kept separate from one another, if only so that writers can have analogues of baseline DC or Marvel for E-777 characters to comment on (or for players to enjoy a change of pace on!).


As far as The Squadron Supreme go, I was thinking of constructing a unique take on the team, probably picking and choosing the best bits from Supreme Power and the original Squadron Supreme; as a note, in the case of either The Champions of Angor or the Squadron Supreme one would like to give an explanation for their origins and powers that works within the logic of the core DC or Marvel Universe (respectively), although that might be a bridge too far for my wide yet relatively narrow knowledge of either setting.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:48 pm

So what happened to Professor Zoom after Flashpoint in Earth-777?

Was he punished by some cosmic powers for f-ing around with history one too much? :twisted:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Daibhid C » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:49 pm

Matt Ryder of the Time Variance Authority refuses to discuss what happened to Zoom.

He will say it's unlikely anyone's going to be seeing him for a while.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Daibhid C » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:02 pm

DC characters in the Age of Apocalypse
  • About thirty years ago, a small spaceship landed in the Mr Sinister’s territory in the Midwest and was immediately commandeered by Mr Sinister. His attempts to clone the genetic material he found in it produced some bizarre results, which he kept as curiosities. The lifeform itself, of course, was killed as a potential threat.
  • Themyscira closed itself off from the rest of the world by magic. At the insistence of Princess Diana, it took in as many refugees as it could beforehand.
  • Bruce Wayne and Slade Wilson were members of Europe’s Human High Council. They were both killed when Mikhail Rasputin attacked the council; Wilson in a crazy suicide charge at the Lost Horseman, Wayne jumping from the building in the desperate belief he could use his coat as some kind of glider.
  • Hal Jordan was just another human in Holocaust’s West Coast slave pens when he was chosen by the power ring. He used it to escape and fight Holocaust’s forces. Unfortunately, he never met Abin Sur or found the power battery, so the ring’s charge eventually died. The battery was found by Mikhail Rasputin, who used it as the basis of augmenting one of his Upstarts, Kyle Rayner.
  • Barry Allen had the misfortune to live in Mr Sinister’s realm. He spent years being tortured as Essex investigated the curious reaction his body had to electricity and chemicals. He was rescued by his late girlfriend’s nephew, Wally West, who reached into the electrified chemical bath to pull him out ... and was subsequently amazed with the speed at which he dragged his uncle-in-all-but-name out of the building.
  • Prelate Joseph Wilson used his mutant power of possession as the angst-ridden leader of Apocalypse's secret police. He was believed killed by Magneto’s X-Men during their final assault on Apocalypse.
  • The X-Siders were a second front of mutant resistance. Led by Geo-Force, the membership included Commander Comet, Looker, Terra, Damage (a creation of Mr Sinister), Black Canary , Tempest (Joshua Clay) and Spinner.
  • Lex Luthor was a member of the Marauders, codenamed Thinker. The only member of the group who survived their attack on Wakanda, he later turned up, under the same codename, as a member of the X-Terminated. Yes really, from traitor of the human race to member of humanity’s last hope. Luthor can be very persuasive.
  • The X-Terminated also included Rose Wilson, codenamed Killstrike. Some have noticed that the death of Rose’s father and brother has had a profound affect on her. It’s almost like she’s a different person.
  • Vandal Savage spent the whole recorded history of the AoA in a secluded area plotting a complicated plot that would see both humans and mutants fall and himself ending up on top. He was very surprised when X-Termination happened before he had a chance to use it.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:03 pm

I'm fond of what happened to the guy in "The Man Who Murdered Mohammed."

What will be happening to Zoom now?

Nothing. Nothing will happen to Zoom again.

Ever again.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:09 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:I'm fond of what happened to the guy in "The Man Who Murdered Mohammed."

What will be happening to Zoom now?

Nothing. Nothing will happen to Zoom again.

Ever again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lCrV4s7Avc
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Daibhid C wrote:Age of Apocalypse and DC
Impressive!

It's such a bleak and disturbing world that this goes to show exactly what sort of nastiness would happen if not for Charles Xavier being there. I also like the fact that, essentially, a bunch of B and C-listers become great heroes as a result of this.

You could also add one from Darkseid too.

"Darkseid descended from the Heavens with a full army, looked upon Apocalypse's works, and then gave a simple nod of his head before departing."

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:32 pm

Nice reference catch. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:45 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
Nice reference catch. :mrgreen:
That's what should happen to villains who play around with the time-space continuum to its detriment.
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:53 pm

Voltron64 wrote: That's what should happen to villains who play around with the time-space continuum to its detriment.
My general view is that altering time is not a crime by the standards of cosmic beings. They're outside its spectrum so its really just a chance of a leaf from green to brown. However, paradoxes ARE a crime, and the more they are created the more they are inclined to intervene. The aftereffects of paradoxes can and do include the weakening of dimensional barriers, giant monsters from outside time, and time flat-out BREAKING in places.

This means that its not too big of an issue for Kitty Pryde to go back in time to prevent the Senator Kelly from being assassinated but persistent attempts at time-terrorism can be. It also leaves people like Kang and the Time Trapper (who are careful about being an enormous ****s) for the PCs to beat up rather than relying on Time-Gods to sort things out.

From the perspective of cosmic beings, also, "good and evil" can be subjective in the long view. The Watcher, in particular, knows that heroes tend to beat the **** out of the bad guys in the end.

:mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:56 pm

Oh, and I liked the Flashpoint work as well, DC!

Luke Cage's characterization was both amusing and true.

Also, I liked Clint Barton's fate.

Asgardia as a Third-Power was appropriate too.

Bravo!

(I assume Arthur Curry killed Namor in this reality or he simply died as a homeless man--possibly saving people from the authorities)

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:04 pm

Again, you need to update my work with Amanda Waller on the front page, Charles. Have I somehow become invisible to you? Maybe the work of Felix Faust? :mrgreen: :P
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:07 pm

EnigmaticOne wrote:Again, you need to update my work with Amanda Waller on the front page, Charles. Have I somehow become invisible to you? Maybe the work of Felix Faust? :mrgreen: :P
I'm terrible at record keeping. Please note it's not deliberate.

Also, thanks for telling me.

UPDATED!

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