The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Charles Phipps
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:04 pm

Really, I think every villain has a Light, Dark, and In-Between Persona. You can dial up their better qualities or dial them down to their absolute worst. In my write-up, I tried to go with the essential idea that Oswald Cobblepot is a truly nasty bestial entity underneath his publicly refined persona and capable of great cruelties. The racism and sexism I envisioned as more class-conscience things but we're entirely capable of excising both without affecting the person.

I suppose it's a question of how dark one likes ones villains.

And my Penguin is a huge coward, I just always felt there was a perverse friendship there.

I'm open to your own thoughts.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:12 pm

My take on Penguin is he's got a layer of ruthless, greedy piece of scum on top, but deep down he's a broken, unloved soul who yearns for acceptance, affection and respect, and even deeper down he's still a piece of scum.

:P
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Phrozen » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:30 pm

The Arkham games made a good choice in making Penguin sound like Brick Top because Brick Top was damn scary.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:38 pm

Phrozen wrote:The Arkham games made a good choice in making Penguin sound like Brick Top because Brick Top was damn scary.
Damn straight.

Best Penguin, IMHO.

Nolan North was so happy to show he actually could do good voice acting!

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:41 am

The DCU Animated Universe in Earth-777 part 1

Mostly because I'm not as familiar with the Marvel universe and would have to work harder at adapting its various (wildly contradictory) incarnations. Though, personally, I love the idea of Iceman, Firestar, and Spiderman traveling around town fighting villains MAGNETO.

Batman: The Animated Series: A long-lived independent production by a group of film students at Empire State University. The amateurs produced their own Batman cartoons distributed on burned CDs. These cartoons were somewhat controversial for the fact they drastically toned down the antics of Gotham's many serial killers for their hobby. Bruce Wayne ultimately bought the rights to their distribution and arranged for the artists to be moved onto more productive programs while shelving them for "controversial subject matter."

Batman: The Animated Series is notable for the fact the students speculation about who could be Batman (an anonymous billionaire with a foster son) was dangerously close to the truth even as they all laughed off the idea Bruce Wayne could be the Batman. Later, after Bruce Wayne revealed he'd been funding the Batman for decades, the series ended up on Youtube and not even Oracle has been able to get it off for long.

The series is dedicated to Gwen Stacy who helped design it with Harry Osbourne (during his short-lived artistic phase). The show is noted for its particularly compelling swinging scenes that were helped along by a local photographer.
The film DID result in the Joker kidnapping Mark Hamill when he mistook their lookalike voice actor for the real thing. Hilariously (?), the Joker actually loved the series (shown to him by Harley Quinn) and didn't harm him--spending the entire time giving pointers.
Superman: The Animated Series: Showing Batman DOES have a sense of humor after all, the surviving members of the production team were put on the job for creating the official Superman cartoon adaptation--after several previous attempts had been turned down by Kal-El of Krypton. The main villain of Lionel Lazarus particularly irritated Lex Luthor as he couldn't sue the animated series without implying he WAS building giant robots to kill Superman.

Amongst its most notable episode is the true story about Captain America inspiring Superman only for the former to reveal that HE'D been inspired by a flying man smashing some gangsters robbing a bank nearby his Brooklyn home*.
Superman's brief 1930s stint in New York was due to time-travelling shenanigans. Both he and Batman were thus members of the original Justice Society due to the frequency of these--as was the Diana Prince Wonder Woman.

It is suspected the Legion of Superheroes helped arrange this to fight the ambitions of Kang.
Other team-ups included Superman working with the Fantastic Four to relocate the Cadmus GeNodes to the Mole Man's kingdom (who Superman had his own encounters with), Superman versus Thanos (incorrectly depicted as Darkseid's brother), and a laser-filled gang war between the Kingpin's men and Intergang. Plans were made for a Spiderman team-up before the bad press from the Daily Bugle prevented this. Oddly enough, there was a HULK memorial episode when it seemed he'd disappeared from Earth.
Superman was instrumental in preventing the events of World War Hulk from getting worse as he and J'onn Jones were the only people in the world who could relate to the Hulk's anger.
Justice League: The success of the Superman adaptation, of course, lead to the Justice League cartoon. This would begin the production companies somewhat troubled relationship to the superhuman world. Vandal Savage, in particular, was outraged that he was depicted in a "funny show" and launched a space age-rocket at their facilities (stopped by Spiderman of all people).

The show drew controversy with the implied lesbian relationship between Wonder Woman and Princess Audrey of Kasnia (long rumored in real-life like the Poison Ivy/Harley Quinn One). Its biggest trouble, however, was the raging xenophobic depiction of Thanagarians. Amusingly, the second Hawkman and Hawkwoman thought it was a fair depiction of their culture.

Some of the "crack-pairings" on the show were brought up repeatedly by the Flash during League meetings and, in at least one case, actually lead to two League members beginning to date as a result. John Stewart is noted for having enjoyed his depiction, though his fellow Leaguers noted his military career had ended long before his service as a ringbearer.
Modified episodes of the series included the following:

* The White Martians of the first episode were more explicitly Skrulls which had invaded ancient Mars to do battle against the Green Martians.

* Vandal Savage's takeover of Nazi Germany was a coup de'tat by the Shadow Cabinet of HYDRA (Baron Zemo, Strucker, and Viper). The Red Skull and Hitler were cryogenically frozen because Savage intended to use them at a latter date. What's terrifying is this actually happened during the last stage of the war and Savage wondered how they'd figured it out. In fact, they'd been coming up with the most outrageous plan possible.

* Captain Marvel (both Kree and Earth female version) was depicted as the 8th member of the League on occasion for no other reason than they really liked the characters.

* The Justice Lords episodes were an adaptation of the Injustice: Gods Amongst Us plot.

* The Justice Guild of America was more obviously based on the Invaders.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:54 am

So Harry Osborn's art style resemble Bruce Timm's? :wink:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:58 am

Voltron64 wrote:So Harry Osborn's art style resemble Bruce Timm's? :wink:
Paul Dini and Bruce Timm's Earth-777 counterparts are, much like Stan Lee and the still-living Jack Kirby, routinely involved in superhuman escapades.

Paul Dini is particularly noted for his on-again-off-again romance with Zatanna.

:D

Note: The best use of Norman Osbourne's money is probably Harry throwing enough money to make B:TAS professional quality. Admittedly, Peter Parker wondered why his friend was doing this when he was struggling with rent but the series WAS pretty good.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:59 am

Nice. :mrgreen:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:17 am

The DCU Animated Universe in Earth-777 part 2

Justice League Unlimited: During Lex Luthor's Presidency, large measures were enacted to control Hollywood and other sources of potential "pro-superhuman propaganda." Justice League Unlimited was thus "screwed by the network" repeatedly but somehow managed to actually air even MORE subversive shows than they would have otherwise. This was due to the efforts of Jimmy Olsen, who thought a cartoon was a perfect place to air sensitive military data including the CADMUS program and Task Force X.
Amanda Waller was said to have done an epic spit-take when one of her kids showed her animated depiction on Youtube (later shown to all of the Squad members by cartoon-loving Captain Boomerang).

"Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I was running an illegal black ops organization for the betterment of the government--not serving as fodder for someone's episode of frigging Ducktales!"
The show made its depictions of Lex Luthor's animated incarnation more and more obvious, too, causing many to become hostile to the world. Norman Osbourne eventually had the crew detained and tossed in Arkham City only for their story to come out thereafter. It also made a series of high-budget animated productions possible thereafter.

The Cartoon Network said, "We could never cancel the show thereafter."

It's still on the air, as a result.

Teen Titans: A more comical, less serious, version of the second incarnation of the Teen Titans. Surprisingly, despite the fact almost all of their efforts were devoted to having themselves taken more seriously during that Era (seriously, Nightwing talked about leaving Batman's shadow 24/7), the entire team was said to give their approval.

Cyborg and Beast Boy even hold screenings of the episodes for new members of the team. This is mostly due to nostalgia but also because the bonds of the team had become frayed before the cartoon helped remind them of how many good times they'd had. Starfire is said to have completely missed out that the depiction of her in the show is meant to be ironic. "I feel for her tragedy adjusting to Earth norms."
Raven denies having ever seen the show. Beast Boy says she watches it alone in her room. Despite the age difference between their real-life counterparts, the Titans fought the Young Avengers and Avengers
Academy in Season 5.

Young Justice: A short-term alliance between Ra's Al Ghul, Vandal Savage, Lex Luthor, Doctor Doom, Sebastian Shaw, Mister Sinister, the Mad Thinker, and a dozen of the world's greatest criminal minds briefly lead to a shadow war against the rest of the world. The events were published a year after they were resolved, including involving the Teen Titans and Young Avengers in many operations far above their pay grade.

Young Justice contained numerous inaccuracies for dramatic effect but helped ease the world into the discovery that Superboy was created as a result of Weapon Plus for the purposes of KILLING Superman and that Lex Luthor was his father. Kon-El was glad to get that secret off his chest, as was Miss Martian's White Martian ancestry.

Damien Wayne was, sadly, unimpressed with the show since a good number of the events depicted within were HIM rather than Tim Drake (Tim Drake playing the "Dick Grayson" role--though none of their names were used). He shouldn't have complained since the showrunners had drastically toned down Damien's imperious attitude (including challenging Namor for rulership of Atlantis) and why they'd chosen to follow Aqualad instead.
It should be noted, "The Light" was destined to fail anyway as the idea of any of the group staying allied for any length of time was a serious stretch. The group did, however, resolve numerous civil wars and drastically increase their power worldwide.

In the end, Ra's Al Ghul and Doctor Doom were the ones who betrayed the group in the end and came perilously close to winning the game outright. It required the help of time-traveling teen hero, Iron Lad, to defeat the plans of Kang--who was the party manipulating the Light.

Kang, it should be noted, being about the only being in the universe other than the Time Trapper (one of his alternate incarnations) capable of controlling this group for even a limited time.
Batman Beyond: A rare case of fiction imitating life imitating art. Booster Gold, once again broke, decided to sell off some of the things he'd taken with him from the future including his 2 million gig IComm hard-drive. Amongst the vast quantity of alien-human-mutant porn inside, this also included animated series based on the adventures of historical figures. Booster ended up getting pennies on the dollar for it since most machines couldn't replicate 4th dimensional mental viewing but Bruce Timm and Paul Dini were stunned to find out Batman's secret identity from this work.

On Earth-2099, Batman successfully lived to a ripe old age and was forced to watch Wayne Enterprises get taken over by PowersCorp (a division of Alchemix, formerly known as OsCorp). Amanda Waller had arranged for genetically-perfect biological sons of Bruce Wayne to be created in hopes of inspiring him to take them under his wing. "The Boys from Gotham" plot was stopped by Bruce, however, preventing the children from losing their parents in the same tragic way as him--and oddly enough, giving Bruce a measure of peace he'd never found for the majority of his life.

One of these children, however, eventually DID lose his father and Task Force X's memetic sculpting made him seek out Bruce. Terry McGinnis was more like Spiderman than his father in many ways, though, and exploited this to his advantage. Indeed, he had numerous team-ups with Spiderman 2099 and helped prevent worldwide catastrophe with the Justice League Multiverse and Avengers Unlimited.

The implied romance between Barbara Gordon and Bruce, however, was wholly fictional. As she said when she heard of this, "Ew."
The series only saw limited airtime with the names and numbers filed off but its longest lasting impression was warning Tim Drake about the Joker's plan to turn him into his surrogate. History was thus changed and the Joker died in another manner entirely--sparing the Bat Family from breaking up.

Notably, while history was changed, Terry STILL became the Batman and had most of his adventures--Bruce could just occasionally smile.
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:34 am

Updated Index.

Also, I changed the Penguin to remove the sexism, racism, and add a bit more self-loathing. I think it's much better as a result!

Thanks editors!

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:49 am

Don't forget Quincy Sharp. I think he needs comments.
Impeach the peach!

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:50 am

EnigmaticOne wrote:Don't forget Quincy Sharp. I think he needs comments.
Doh! Let me rectify that for you.

I really liked it too.

Edited:

Fixed and cited.
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:59 am

EnigmaticOne wrote:Quincy Sharp

Quincy Sharp is a man who has gone down in flames. Having resigned his mayoralty and facing a slew of criminal charges for his role in Hugo Strange's misdeeds, he's become a mocked, pathetic, broken figure.

The real tragedy, is that had events gone differently, he might have been up there in the Gotham pantheon with Batman, Bruce Wayne and James Gordon.

A wealthy Gotham VIP with a Master's in Public Policy, Sharp was far more intelligent than people tended to give him credit for. In the aftermath of Arkham Origins, he saw an issue that almost no one else in Gotham saw coming, even Batman: namely, the rise of malefactors with the wrong combination of insanity (medically if not legally) with criminal savvy was just beginning.

It wasn't just a failure of mismanagement at Blackgate, it was never meant for the likes of the Joker. Sharp got it re-opened, and honestly intended to see Arkham through to success.

Unfortunately, Gotham's Worst were even worse than expected, and at the same time it all began, Strange and the secret emissaries of Ra's stepped in. Sharp's pomposity and ambition were his weak spots.

To make it worse, Strange employed brainwashing and manipulation to carefully influence Warden/Mayor Sharp. Between Arkham Asylum and Arkham City, Sharp realized what a monster Strange was, but the keys to the system had been hijacked by the Professor. Sharp was helpless and it was only a formality for Strange to toss him into Arkham City.
Excellent write-up, EO.

Quincy Sharp is a character whose political career but the broken nature of the system he constantly campaigned against is now his friend rather than his enemy. It's unlikely he's going to see any criminal charges filed against him given the establishment of mind-control and brainwashing has a long legal precedent for getting superheroes off the hook for questionable deeds.

There's also some serious questions whether or not Hugo Strange's brainwashing had deeper effects than he might have expected. Gotham City, after all, is a town of freaks and Arkham Asylum tends to encourage relatively mild disorders such as Quincy Sharp's OCD and need for order to mutate into something...else.

While it was completely ignored during the events of Arkham City, Quincy Sharp's split personality as the Spirit of Arkham protected part of his brain from Strange's brainwashing. It supported Ra's Al Ghul's mass culling of Gotham's riff-raff, however. It is also still there and quite capable of motivating Quincy Sharp to rise from the ashes.

What form his next move may take is anyone's guess. *

* The fact the Joker died during the events of Arkham City has caused many citizens to privately believe it was worth it, despite his death being completely unrelated. The 22% of the prisoners who died included a lot of innocent people but others were less questionable--especially to the rich *******s that Gotham City sports. Mayor Sharp received a number of invitations after the events of Arkham City.

A black glove, a card with hellfire on it, and a strange letter sealed with the face of an Owl.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by EnigmaticOne » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:05 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
EnigmaticOne wrote:Don't forget Quincy Sharp. I think he needs comments.
Doh! Let me rectify that for you.

I really liked it too.
Yeah, he's a pompous ass, but in the infamous Bat-rescue-interrogation he came across as hapless, and a tinge apologetic. Add in the fact that he was one of the expert panel and the guy who got Arkham open and was there from the beginning - and it does give him some credit.

Charges have been filed, really, but once it's clearly demonstrated what Strange was doing, yes Sharp is in no danger. His reputation is really the thing that's been killed off and that's what hurts.
Impeach the peach!

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:08 pm

EnigmaticOne wrote:Yeah, he's a pompous ass, but in the infamous Bat-rescue-interrogation he came across as hapless, and a tinge apologetic. Add in the fact that he was one of the expert panel and the guy who got Arkham open and was there from the beginning - and it does give him some credit.

Charges have been filed, really, but once it's clearly demonstrated what Strange was doing, yes Sharp is in no danger. His reputation is really the thing that's been killed off and that's what hurts.
My opinion of Gotham is best summarized by the 1989 Batman movie where Gotham's citizens gleefully embrace the Joker for the promise of free-money AFTER he poisoned the town. It's the kind of place the Penguin getting elected Mayor is not at all unreasonable, AFTER he's been revealed as a supervillain. * It's a greedy, corrupt, violent city even without the psychos. **.

So, yeah, Quincy's reputation may be recoverable. He makes a good antagonist for PCs who need a draconic response to heroes/villains.

Kudos, again, EO and I hope to see more.

* Metropolis, however, has no excuse other than Lex Luthor possibly emitting low-level hypnotic rays from his bald head.
** That's a joke so bad you have to cry when the problem with the city is the citizens. Kind of like how in the Robocop TV series, Delta City was a prosperous rich crime-ridden hellhole whose terrorist wannabes commuted in.

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