The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Voltron64
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:01 pm

I prefer to think that sort of outrageous corruption in Gotham is something of a dying breed, at least potentially.
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Libra » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:48 pm

A dying breed, but one that I fear still has far too much life left in it as yet.


By the way, excellent work one and all! (especially you Charles, for rising so magnificently to the challenge I set). :D


Concerning The Penguin I tend towards depicting him more sympathetically than otherwise (Gotham needs a little more 'Caped Crusader' to compensate for all the 'Dark Knight' in my opinion); on the other hand I also see him as fundamentally an angry snob OUTRAGED that he had to grow up Middle Class, a man who has principles but is fully prepared to ignore them out of fear and for his own profit, a man who puts women on a pedestal then gets disinterested when they descend to his level, a man capable of behaving like the perfect gentlemen with some effort and a bad habit of failing to make the effort when greed or fear drive him to furious haste (or plain FURY).

Basically he sounds rather like Mr Danny DeVito channeling Burgess Meredith (with the occasional temper tantrum!).
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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Voltron64 wrote:I prefer to think that sort of outrageous corruption in Gotham is something of a dying breed, at least potentially.
My opinion on Gotham City is that Batman has achieved about 50% redemption of the city. A city which was on the verge of becoming a failed one in the United States like Hub City or Bludhaven. The thing is that Batman is stymied from getting the city better because God himself seems to be against him in this with stuff like the Gotham City Earthquake and the level of trauma inflicted by so many villains.

Batman's final victory will never happen alone, it'll require the people of Gotham to CHOOSE to redeem their city.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:00 pm

Libra wrote:A dying breed, but one that I fear still has far too much life left in it as yet.
Agreed.
By the way, excellent work one and all! (especially you Charles, for rising so magnificently to the challenge I set). :D
I'm always up for new ones!
Concerning The Penguin I tend towards depicting him more sympathetically than otherwise (Gotham needs a little more 'Caped Crusader' to compensate for all the 'Dark Knight' in my opinion); on the other hand I also see him as fundamentally an angry snob OUTRAGED that he had to grow up Middle Class, a man who has principles but is fully prepared to ignore them out of fear and for his own profit, a man who puts women on a pedestal then gets disinterested when they descend to his level, a man capable of behaving like the perfect gentlemen with some effort and a bad habit of failing to make the effort when greed or fear drive him to furious haste (or plain FURY).

Basically he sounds rather like Mr Danny DeVito channeling Burgess Meredith (with the occasional temper tantrum!).
I love dark, broody., and somber w/ truly evil Batman foes except for a rare few but there's limits even for me. I consider "Death of the Family" to be completely non-canon in any serious examination of the Joker, for example.

After all, the Joker has STYLE. Crudeness for crudeness sake isn't his way.

:mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:06 pm

Libra wrote:A dying breed, but one that I fear still has far too much life left in it as yet.


By the way, excellent work one and all! (especially you Charles, for rising so magnificently to the challenge I set). :D


Concerning The Penguin I tend towards depicting him more sympathetically than otherwise (Gotham needs a little more 'Caped Crusader' to compensate for all the 'Dark Knight' in my opinion); on the other hand I also see him as fundamentally an angry snob OUTRAGED that he had to grow up Middle Class, a man who has principles but is fully prepared to ignore them out of fear and for his own profit, a man who puts women on a pedestal then gets disinterested when they descend to his level, a man capable of behaving like the perfect gentlemen with some effort and a bad habit of failing to make the effort when greed or fear drive him to furious haste (or plain FURY).

Basically he sounds rather like Mr Danny DeVito channeling Burgess Meredith (with the occasional temper tantrum!).
So he's basically Frank Reynolds from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? :twisted:

(Therefore this would be Cobblepot in therapy at Arkham.)

:lol:
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Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:00 pm

Hey guys, I'm re-starting my own home-game for this universe. Thanks to everyone. Should be fun. Our first plot is the Joker framing the Incredible Hulk for the deeds of a rampaging Solomon Grundy and arranging for Mayor Sharp to put all manner of assassins on him.

Why?

Because the Joker, at the climax, is going to Joker-ize him!

(I'm also going to produce the "Red Skull" hypothesis for the Joker that there's an original Joker and dozens of agents beneath him--since no one can survive QUITE as many close calls as him--it'll also make things more difficult for the PCs).

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:02 am

Nightwing

Image

One of the most versatile heroes on Earth-777, Nightwing is a child of the superhero world in the way few other beings can attest to. Trained by Batman into physical, mental, and philosophical perfection--he's actually exceeded Bruce in some areas.

While not quite the same level of scientist, martial artist, or Detective--he's comparable and his skills as an acrobat blow Bruce away. The only individual who has ever been able to match Nightwing move-for-move is Daredevil and the two once held a 24-hour contest that ended with both exhausted but impressed.

Indeed, what Nightwing does exceed Bruce in by far is his ability work well with others. A natural leader, he's served as head of the Titans, Outsiders, and Justice League on occasion. He's even worked with the Avengers, being the only member known thus far to be a part of both humanity's superhero teams.
Dick, honestly, did it to tweak Batman's nose a bit. He also wanted to see how good they really were. Captain America and other members were quite surprised at how personable Dick was and how he was more or less the opposite of how they expected a child of Batman to be.

For some reason, though, the Winter Soldier never cared for him.
The heart of Dick Grayson's happy-go-lucky attitude is Bruce Wayne's almost pathological need to make sure Dick wasn't as traumatized by his parent's death as he was. Alfred, gentle soul as he was, wasn't able to divert Bruce Wayne's obsessive need for revenge. Bruce, on the other hand, made sure that Nightwing received justice early and gave him all the affection as well as mentoring a child could want.

Bizarrely, Nightwing is BETTER adjusted than the majority of children who didn't go out into the world fighting criminals growing up. He's achieved a zen-like understanding of criminal behavior and believes passionately in good as well as heroism. In many ways, he's more similar to Clark Kent in attitude than Bruce--though Dick inherited the romantic bon vivant attitude of the latter's cover identity.

Dick's relationship with Bruce Wayne hasn't always been perfect. His infamous "firing" from being Robin was designed as a calculated move to get him to seek a new identity other than Batman. Dick instantly saw through this manipulation and resented the fact Bruce felt the need to be underhanded rather than simply talk to him about his concerns. It did, however, have the desired effect. Dick spent almost a decade getting training from different individuals than Batman including Superman (in Kandor), Captain America. Ralph Dibny, and even Spiderman.
The infamous "Spiderman and Nightwing" power hour included Dick Grayson, Johnny Storm, and Peter Parker prowling around New York during the trio's period studying at Empire State.
It was a HILARIOUS set of adventures--entirely the opposite of angstful.
Dick's relative comfort with aliens, supertechnology, and weirdness also separates him from Batman. On a very real level, Bruce is a control freak and while he loves his Justice League friends--he's tried to keep Gotham clean of the surreal (or at least to a manageable level). Dick doesn't care and happily has an ale on Asgard before taking a Fantasticar to the Savage Land for dinner.
Usually, on a date. While he has long-standing relationships with both Barbara Gordon and Kory, Dick is VERY well-liked by women. It's actually gotten him into trouble on more than one occasion like when the Enchantress decided he was a worthy mortal for her heart.
All things come to in circles with superheroes, though, and Nightwing is recovering from his time as Batman. While he handled being the Caped Crusader "his way" and showed Bruce the mantle doesn't have to be incredibly self-destructive (he even wore the blue version of the costume rather than the black), he feels keenly his inability to stop the creation of Arkham City. The critical injury of Damien Wayne at the hands of his psychotic clone didn't help matters either.
Damien is presently recovering and undergoing martial-arts training at K'un-Lunn in an attempt by Bruce and Dick to help break his League of Shadows training. He regularly sneaks away despite dimensional barriers between him and Gotham City.
Dick is presently rethinking his status in the Bat-Family as a result. He's not interested in quitting, far from it. It's the reverse, actually. Batman Incorporated is something which makes him believe that he might actually prefer taking up Bruce's mantle than continuing as Nightwing--a thought he never conceived before.

His motivations in this are selfless, too. After having his back broken and the Omega Sanction (breaking his no-kill rule to, effectively, slay the Devil in Darkseid)--Bruce isn't a 100%. He's about 98% and that's more than any man has a right to but even Purple Healing Rays and Zatanna's magic won't keep the first Batman in the fight forever. Dick would like to see Bruce pass on the mantle before it kills him.

Which is very unlikely.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:55 am

That's right Charles, no lady can get enough of Dick. :mrgreen:
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by MightyDavidson » Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:18 am

I just hope that in this universe, Tim Drake was allowed to take up the mantle of Nightwing rather then ending up as, ugh, Red Robin.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:04 am

MightyDavidson wrote:I just hope that in this universe, Tim Drake was allowed to take up the mantle of Nightwing rather then ending up as, ugh, Red Robin.
On my end, I like the idea Tim Drake really doesn't see the problem with being Robin.

Of course, on his end, he gets to wear pants.

So there is that. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:41 am

Two-Face

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Bruce Wayne will never give up on Harvey Dent. One might argue this is because Batman never gives up on anybody, but no, there is something special about the former District Attorney. A reason that Batman deduced not long after the man's fall from grace.

Harvey Dent is what would have happened to Bruce if not for Alfred. Despite not possessing Bruce Wayne's wealth, Harvey Dent's psychosis is peculiarly similar to that of the Batman. His anger, darkness, rage, and brooding were born from a different cause but could have been channeled into something positive.
God knows, Harvey TRIED. However, Harvey Dent couldn't manage the creation of a second identity to hold all the darkness with the same flair as Bruce Wayne. Instead, what was created was his own peculiar form of schizophrenia.
The old adage "you're not insane if you know you're crazy" is not true with Two-Face. He's quite aware he's crazy and is fascinated by it--the duality of man, the randomness of how bad things happen to good people, and how choices can be completely irrational when made on the spur of the moment.

Which Two-Face believes ALL choices really are.
Harvey suppressed his dark side for the better part of three decades, pouring his disgust and loathing for Gotham City's criminals into a hole that gradually became a part of him. Psychologists have failed time and again to cure Harvey Dent of his "other self" because they have misdiagnosed him. Two-Face isn't a dissociative identity he created to hide himself in. He passed out of that phase decades ago. Sadly, no, he is always Two-Face and they are simply different aspects of the same man.

Much like another figure who stalks the streets of Gotham.
The sanest Two-Face has ever been was a brief year-long period where Bruce recovered from the events of his resurrection and left the city under the protection of Harvey. This seemingly deranged act resulted in the closest thing to peace of mind Two-Face had ever experienced. He understood Batman in that moment and realized the darkness could be turned against the city.

Unfortunately, Hush of all people managed to destroy the trust built between the Batman and Harvey--causing him to return back to his old habits. Two-Face remembers that time, though, and it's left a scar on his heart.
The Harvey Dent portion of the man is largely unchanged. Two-Face spends much of his ill-gotten wealth on things like charities, public-schooling, and generally behaving as a Friendly Neighborhood Gangster. He believes it's his job to reign in his dark half and does so with the flip of a coin. Half the time, Two-Face's territory is a godsend compared to the Penguin's or local mobs. The other half, though, is what even his own men fear.

The Two-Face portion of his soul is filled with an overwhelming hatred and corruption fueled by decades of watching Gotham torture itself. While Harvey Dent would love to save Gotham City or, at least, make it less of a hell-hole, Two-Face fully believes anything he does to his fellow Gothamites is deserved. He has a particular hatred of lawyers, judges, politicians, and other individuals who ostensibly hold up the Justice System.
Amusingly, Harvey and Two-Face BOTH go after the latter. Gotham City is so full of corruption, his victims are likely as to be the worst of the city's Bar Association as well as the very best with equal likelihood.

Worse, whether he goes after the honest or the corrupt can change on a coin flip.
The literal randomness of Two-Face's choice to use a coin to plan his actions is because these two sides are irreconcilable. Harvey Dent can't deal with the fact he's a multiple mass-murderer and one of the worst gangsters Gotham City has ever seen. Two-Face can't fully-stamp out the last bits of good inside Harvey Dent. Every attempt results in self-sabotage which prevents the worst of his schemes from succeeding. The two thus exist in an unstable equilibrium, allowing the randomness of fate to provide themselves a reprieve from the heavy weight of their true self.

Time will tell when the coin won't be enough, however. As mentioned, Batman came close to redeeming Harvey Dent and has done so on multiple occasions. Harvey even briefly created a third-personality in The Judge to execute him because he was no longer able to stand Two-Face's corrosive acts. Two-Face, however, knows that a glass of water half-filled with sewage is entirely rotten. He just needs to convince Harvey of this and both sides will be the same.

Irregardless of what they look like.
It should be noted there's some question whether Harvey Dent's madness may be hereditary. The alternate versions of Harvey Dent's estranged daughter, born during the Long Halloween, almost always have developed a chronic fascination with their father's dual-identity.

Duela Dent's attempt to bond with her father ultimately resulted in her receiving a bit of "training" from the Joker that backfired surprisingly well--Duela becoming a brief member of the Titans despite the AMAZING poor taste of her outfit.

The Joker has, strangely enough, not tried to kill her and wrote her off as, "A wannabe Harley Quinn."

(Though, notably, the Joker created Harley AFTER meeting Duela.)
Harvey Dent's notable accomplishments outside of Gotham City include his multiple attempts to kill Matt Murdock, briefly dating She-Hulk after plastic surgery (and under an assumed identity), a bizarre terrorist-attack against the US Supreme Court where he held them all hostage due to their willingness to pass through a anti-mutant bill (Batman and the X-men managed to work together that time), and successfully prosecuting the Kingpin in a Jury consisting of all of the man's discarded former employees.
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:50 am

Charles Phipps wrote: Time will tell when the coin won't be enough, however. As mentioned, Batman came close to redeeming Harvey Dent and has done so on multiple occasions. Harvey even briefly created a third-personality in The Judge to execute him because he was no longer able to stand Two-Face's corrosive acts. Two-Face, however, knows that a glass of water half-filled with sewage is entirely rotten. He just needs to convince Harvey of this and both sides will be the same.

Irregardless of what they look like.
"Y'know, they say there are three kinds of people in this world: The optimistic who find the glass half full, and the pessimistic that see it as half-empty. Then there's the paranoid; they just think someone's drinking out of their glass"

"Which one are you?"

"I'm the guy that knocks the glass over."
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:53 am

Voltron64 wrote:"Y'know, they say there are three kinds of people in this world: The optimistic who find the glass half full, and the pessimistic that see it as half-empty. Then there's the paranoid; they just think someone's drinking out of their glass"

"Which one are you?"

"I'm the guy that knocks the glass over."
Excellent.

*claps*

Updated with Two-Face's ties to the MU.

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Voltron64 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:58 am

Still, what do you think about my idea that Dent's original burns were comparatively superficial and his later looks were due to self-mutilation?
Power doesn't corrupt. Power appeals to the corrupt. - Charles Phipps

Certainly it would be a better world if bigotry were rewarded with a straightjacket and a padded cell more often. - Libra

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Re: The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:02 am

Voltron64 wrote:Still, what do you think about my idea that Dent's original burns were comparatively superficial and his later looks were due to self-mutilation?
I'm divided on it. Doom's destroying his own face because it couldn't be perfect says everything you need to know about what a royal pain in the butt he is as well as self-destroying nitwit.

*is killed by a Doom Particle Weapon Satellite*

*ghost continues typing*

The big thing to remember about Two-Face isn't necessarily whether he destroyed his face or not but he could fix it--but CHOOSES NOT TO.

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