Elric's 2e Builds

[Elric]

Cool stuff, Elric. You know, to make the offset PLs legal for Cyclops, a simple All-Out Attack feat might do the trick.

I was hoping someone would mention that! I noticed that both you and MDSnowman gave Cyclops All-Out Attack, while Baron didn't. I don't think Cyclops has All-Out Attack. Cyclops is stronger on offense than defense but it isn't because he constantly leaves himself extra-vulnerable by focusing too much on his Optic Blasts. He's simply shifted towards offense from the start. Trading across offense/defense is a perfectly reasonable extension of the tradeoff rules and +-1 isn't anything that's going to prove unbalancing in play, so that's what I'm doing here.

Also, I forgot to mention: Wolverine got an update decreasing his power and lowering him to PL 10 so that he fits with the other X-Men. I kept the stronger build that I'm designing for use with the Avengers for myself, but I'm sure most people would prefer to have the version that works with the X-Men. Spider-Man and Daredevil also got knocked down to PL 10 for the same reason. Lastly, I found a number of good pictures for Rogue but too many of them had "breasts larger than head"-itis, a common ailment in the superheroine community.

[Elric]

Nightcrawler

Power Level 9 (135 pp)

Abilities: STR: 14 (+2), DEX: 26 (+8), CON: 16 (+3), INT: 12 (+1), WIS: 16 (+3), CHA: 14 (+2)

Skills: Acrobatics 10 (+18), Bluff 8 (+10), Climb 5 (+7), Concentration 3 (+6), Diplomacy 4 (+6), Intimidate 4 (+6), Knowledge [Theology & Philosophy] 6 (+7), Medicine 1 (+4), Notice 7 (+10), Pilot 1 (+9), Sense Motive 5 (+8), Stealth 8 (+16), Languages 2 (English, Latin; Base: German)

Feats: Acrobatic Bluff, Attack Focus 3 (Melee), Attack Specialization 2 (Unarmed), Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 2, Dodge Focus 6, Elusive Target, Evasion 2, Extra Limb (Tail), Grappling Finesse, Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Initiative, Luck, Martial Strike 3, Redirect, Set Up, Sneak Attack, Takedown Attack, Taunt, Teamwork 2, Ultimate Defense, Uncanny Dodge (Hearing)

Powers:
Super Movement 1 (Wall Crawling), Super Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision)

Teleport Array (13 pp)
Teleport 6 (Flaw: Short-Range Only, 600 feet as move action, Power Feats: Change Direction, Change Velocity, Progression 2—500 lbs, Turnabout) (11 pp)
AP: Teleport 3 (Extra: Accurate; Flaw: Short Range only, 300 feet as a move action, Power Feats: Change Direction, Change Velocity, Progression 2—500 lbs, Turnabout) (11 pp)
AP: Stun 11 (Flaw: Full-Round Action) (11 pp)

Combat: Attack +4 (+7 melee, +11 Unarmed) [Unarmed 5 dmg, Stun Fort DC 21 //+2 dmg on Surprise Attack], Defense 23 (14 flat-footed), Initiative +12, Grapple +15, Knockback -2

Saves: Toughness +5 (+3 flat-footed), Fortitude +4, Reflex +11, Will +7

Abilities 38 + Skills 16 + Feats 35 + Powers 16 + Combat 22 + Saves 8 = 135

Notes: Here's Nightcrawler as a PC at PL 9, 135 pp. I already have a PL 10 PC build of Nightcrawler, but he could fit at either PL 9 or 10. This build is heavily inspired by X-Men 2. I prefer to have Nightcrawler as an unarmed combatant rather than having him use a sword. So he gets Martial Strike 3 (from the Mastermind’s Manual- adds 3 to your unarmed damage) so he can do decent damage. He has the Extra Limb feat from the Mastermind’s Manual- it's just the Additional Limb power taken as a feat.

Nightcrawler’s Stun power represents him teleporting himself and an enemy quickly in place to disorient (and possibly knock unconscious) the enemy. Nightcrawler sickens anyone who teleports with him in general, but if it has any game effects (like his Stun power activating on someone he teleports with him!), that's a complication.

The Ultimate Power version of the Turnabout power feat doesn’t require you to end up where you started. Turnabout: You can teleport, take a standard action, and teleport again as a full action, so long as the total distance doesn’t exceed your short Teleport range (rank x 100 feet).

Ultimate Defense is a feat I invented, but it’s really just Luck Control 1 (Force Rerolls; Limited- only attack rolls, Limited- only attacks rolls against you) (1 pp) taken as a feat. Ultimate Defense: After an opponent rolls an attack roll against you and hits (but before you resolve the effects of the attack), you may spend a hero point to force that opponent to reroll the attack roll, taking the worse of the two rolls.

[Elric]

Colossus

Power Level 9 (135 pp)

Abilities: STR: 34 [21] (+12), DEX: 12 (+1), CON: 20 (+5), INT: 12 (+1), WIS: 14 (+2), CHA: 14 (+2)

Skills: Climb 0 (+5/+6 in Organic Steel Form), Craft [Artistic] 4 (+5), Diplomacy 4 (+6), Knowledge [Art] 2 (+3), Notice 5 (+7), Pilot 1 (+2), Sense Motive 7 (+9), Language 1 (English; Base: Russian)

Feats: All-Out Attack, Interpose, Power Attack, Takedown Attack, Teamwork 2, Tough

Powers: Alternate Form 9 (Organic Steel, Extra: Continuous) (54 pp) (Weight in Alternate Form: 1200 lbs)
Organic Steel Form:
Density 6 [Permanent; +12 Strength, +3 Toughness, Impervious Toughness 3, Immovable 2, Super-Strength 2] (18 pp), Enhanced Strength 1, Super Strength 3 (PF: Ground Strike, Shockwave, Heavy Load: 45 tons),
Protection 4 (Extra: Impervious 9), Immunity 8 [Critical Hits, Environmental Cold and Heat, Poison, Starvation & Thirst, Suffocation]
Drawback: Vulnerable [Magnetic attacks; Uncommon, Major; -3pp]

Combat: Attack +6 [Unarmed +12 dmg], Defense 15 (13 flat-footed), Initiative +1, Grapple +23, Knockback -14

Saves: Toughness +13 (12 Impervious), Fortitude +11, Reflex +3, Will +7

Abilities 33 + Skills 6 + Feats 7 + Powers 54 + Combat 22 + Saves 13= 135

Notes: Here’s Colossus as a PL 9, 135 pp PC.

Note that as of Ultimate Power there’s no requirement that the powers in an alternate form all have the same duration as the Alternate Form itself. So changing into and out of Steel Form is Continuous Duration, but when Colossus is in Steel Form his Density is a Permanent power and can’t be turned off unless he turns his entire alternate form off.

[Elric]

Storm

Power Level 10 (150 pp)

Abilities: STR: 10 (+0), DEX: 16 (+3), CON: 14 (+2), INT: 14 (+2), WIS: 16 (+3), CHA: 16 (+3)

Skills: Bluff 4 (+7), Concentration 8 (+11), Diplomacy 4 (+7), Disable Device 8 (+10), Escape Artist 8 (+11), Knowledge [Streetwise] 4 (+6), Knowledge [Tactics] 4 (+6), Notice 8 (+11), Pilot 2 (+5), Sense Motive 8 (+11), Sleight of Hand 8 (+11), Stealth 4 (+7), Survival 4 (+7), Languages 2 (English, Swahili; Base: Arabic)

Feats: Benefit (Status), Defensive Roll 4, Dodge Focus 2, Evasion, Favored Environment 4 (Airborn, +4 to Dodge), Leadership, Teamwork, Tough, Uncanny Dodge (Visual)

Powers: Immunity 5 (Powers and effects with Weather descriptor; Sustained), Feature 1 (Weather Sense), Flight 3 (50 mph)

Weather Control Array (32 pp base + 7 APs= 39 pp)
Weather Control 16 (32pp—mix and match environments: Cold, Distraction, (Precipitation), Hamper Movement (Icy or Wet Surfaces), Heat, Reduced Visibility (Rain), Extra: Independent (+0))
AP: Air Control 10 (Extra: Knockback (for Trip), Trip Opposed by Strength (+0), PF: Freshen Air, Precise) (32 pp)
AP: Blast 12 (PF: Accurate, Improved Range 3—1200 ft range increment, Indirect 2, Precise) [Lightning] (31pp)
AP: Blast 10 (Extra: Area—Line, PF: Indirect 2) [Lightning] (32 pp)
AP: Blast 7 (Extra: Area—Cylinder, Duration—Concentration, PF: Indirect 2, Progression 2—increase Area's size) [Tornado] (32 pp)
AP: Dazzle 10 (Visual & Audio, Extra: Area—Burst, Flaw: Full-Round Action, PF: Indirect 2) [Lightning & Thunderclap] (32 pp)
AP: Obscure 10 (1 mile radius, Visual, Extra (+0): Independent, PF: Reversible) [Fog] (21 pp)
AP: Trip 10 (Extras: Opposed by Strength (+0), Range—Perception, Knockback, Area—Cone, Flaw: Limited [Effect must originate at Storm, -1]) [Air] (30 pp)

Combat: Attack +6 (+8 Lightning Bolt) [Unarmed 0 dmg, Lightning Bolt 12 dmg], Defense 19 (23 Airborn) (14 flat-footed), Initiative +3, Grapple +6 (resist/escape grapples with Escape Artist +11), Knockback -3 (-1 flat-footed)

Saves: Toughness +7 (+3 flat-footed), Fortitude +4, Reflex +7, Will +9

Abilities 26 + Skills 19 + Feats 16 + Powers 51 + Combat 26 + Saves 12= 150

Notes: Here’s Storm as a PL 10, 150 pp PC. She's very powerful on offense, particularly due to her variety of Area Attacks, but she's fragile for her PL and is quite vulnerable if you can surprise attack her.

I managed to make her without a Dynamic Array, which makes her simpler than she would otherwise be. The place where this has the most impact is Storm’s Environmental Control power, which I had to give the Independent extra to so that she could use it at the same time as her instant-duration array powers. The more thematically compelling way to do this is to give her a fully Dynamic Array and a regular Sustained Environmental Control power—but that costs more pp and results in a more complicated character.

Favored Environment normally can be used either to increase Attack or Defense, but this creates problems because Storm would be over her PL caps on attack/damage with her targeted Lightning Bolts if she could do this (see here, where Steve says that in general if part of an ability would put you over PL caps you simply can’t buy the ability at all). So I’ve limited Storm’s Favored Environment to providing a Dodge bonus to Defense to avoid this problem.

Notable Power Stunts of hers should include: increasing the heat and humidity in the air for a Fatigue (Range—Perception) effect, encasing opponents in instantly-created ice for a Snare effect, creating a pressure dome of air for a Create Objects effect, or lifting allies with her control of the winds for an Affects Others Flight effect.

Note that in Ultimate Power, maximum range is separate from Range Increment for a power- a power's maximum range is rank x 100 feet (modified by the progression feat), and Improved Range only makes the ranged increment better. So Storm’s targeted Lightning Bolts can hit targets up to 1200 feet away and since Storm’s range increment is 1200 feet, she'll never take range penalties. For Storm’s Area Trip at Range—Perception, you should consider this a Targeted Perception Area in UP’s lingo (essentially, it’s like a conventional explosion—Storm doesn’t have to perceive the target—but the power can be blocked by cover)

Her Weather Control power uses the mix-and match environment optional rules from Ultimate Power: Rather than having a set list of effects Storm can create, divide its cost for any given use among the effects listed, making it a limited sort of Variable structure. This makes Weather Control more powerful, which I think is fine since it’s a pretty weak effect.

Storm's Trip abilities have the +0 Opposed by Strength Only modifier from Ultimate Power, which does exactly what the name implies. Yes, it’s strictly better than the regular Trip power, but since Improved Throw is listed as a power feat for only 1 pp and that’s strictly better than Opposed by Strength, there’s no room for an in-between cost here.

Independent is a +0 Extra from Ultimate Power. Independent: Applied to a sustained effect, this modifier makes its duration independent of the user and based instead on the number of power points in the effect. The effect occurs normally and then fades at a rate of 1 power point of effectiveness per round until it is gone. While it lasts, it requires no attention or maintenance from the user, like a continuous duration effect, although it can still be countered or nullified (also like a continuous effect). This is like a combination of the Duration (continuous) and Fades modifiers. An Independent Alternate Power continues to function even when the Array is switched to a different configuration.

Cylinder is an option for the shape of an Area Effect in Ultimate Power. Cylinder: The effect fills a cylinder with a total radius and height of 5 feet per rank. So, for example, a rank 10 Cylinder Area could have a 20-foot radius and a height of 30 feet, a 10-foot radius and a height of 40 feet, or any other combination adding up to 50 feet (10 ranks x 5 feet).

Features are from Ultimate Power and are the equivalent for powers of the Benefit Feat. Weather Sense is an invented feature that lets Storm know the current and upcoming weather in her vicinity; remember, her character was created before the Weather Channel! Freshen Air is a power feat on Air Control in Ultimate Power that does more or less what the name implies. Tough is from the Mastermind’s Manual and adds 1 to her Toughness save.

The picture has all of the elements of a great Storm picture: she’s hot, she’s flying in a cool pose with a lightning bolt in the background, and her breasts are smaller than her head. That’s about all you can ask for these days.

[Thorpacolypse]

and her breasts are smaller than her head. That’s about all you can ask for these days.

Preach on brother! One of my female friends who reads comics comments on the "impossible proportions" of the female characters all the time.

Sometimes I appreciate those representations, but most of the time, even a pig like me has to say "come on"...

Great builds. Really like the dynamic array you gave Storm. She is on my short list to write up and I think you've given me some good ideas.

[Elric]

and her breasts are smaller than her head. That’s about all you can ask for these days.

Preach on brother! One of my female friends who reads comics comments on the "impossible proportions" of the female characters all the time.

Sometimes I appreciate those representations, but most of the time, even a pig like me has to say "come on"...

Great builds. Really like the dynamic array you gave Storm. She is on my short list to write up and I think you've given me some good ideas.

Thank you very much. I often check your builds to get good ideas before creating mine- but the problem is, unlike Baron, MDSnowman or Taliesin, there's no guarantee that you've already done every build that I want to do!

On "impossible proportions"- it's clear that comic book characters have "impossible proportions" because it sells. At the least, the people creating the comic books must believe that it sells better than any alternative. But Hollywood did a fine job casting the X-Men movies. The actresses were all hot, looked like the characters they were playing and, as befits actual people, they looked like actual (if extremely good looking) people. I don't think the lack of Pamela Anderson-sized breasts on impossibly thin women hurt the movies.

So I'm not sure why the characters in comic books aren't drawn more like Halle Berry, Famke Janssen, and Rebecca Romijn, who it must be said have exceedingly nice (though recognizably human) proportions. After all, I don't think female characters who have breasts larger than their heads are going to let comic books compete with Playboy. This isn't to say that all women in comic books are drawn with "impossible proportions" (I barely read comic books, so I don't have any expertise here), but from my image searches online, clearly a lot of images of female comic book characters are drawn as such.

[Paragon]

A couple initial comments, both of which may be rendered moot by those more familiar with the characters than I am:

1. Captain America's Shield: Though its a common build to put the defense and the ranged capability in an array, I'm not sure that's really an accurate depiction; I don't recall seeing anyone _ever_ nail Cap because the shield was in flight; it seems to return to him too quickly under normal circumstances for anyone to take advantage of this. I think I'd build it as an entirely seperate power with a drawback on the device that if you Ready to shoot _just_ as he throws it, he doesn't get the defense.

2. Daredevil's Radar Sense: Though called that, I'm pretty sure its been treated more like echolocation/sonar most of the time over the years than anything radar related.

3. Ms. Marvel: If that's the Carol Danvers version of the character (I have some doubts as I don't remember the energy attack on her) she also should have a super-sense; the "Seventh Sense" was a non-trivial part of her gig, and as I recall was basically some varient of Danger Sense.

4. Mystique's Morph: At least some versions of this character are able to morph to the point where she passes things like chemical tests. Since according to Steve, Morph only defaults to fooling sight, you'd need a couple of power feats to cover a few other senses when relevant.

5. Luke Cage: One of the things Cage has been depicted as over the years is he's the rare brick who seems to actually be tougher than he is strong; if you don't want to attack/defense trade-off, I'd think of giving him some other abilities to represent that (perhaps bruise only regeneration).

6. Quicksilver: You might want to add radio to the Concealment; there's an argument that a speedster can probably do this with almost all senses (since the stimulus come by so briefly the reciever doesn't have time to process it), but there's at least potential issues of leftover stimulus (sonic effects, chemical trail). On the other hand, radar and related senses almost certainly will have the same issues as vision (sonar also _probably_ should, but that's a judgement call).

7. Rogue: As originally depicted, it didn't seem like it was possible for Rogue to get partial powers, or to get some and leave the target up. I really think a Mimic dependent on Stun would represent her at that point better than anything with Transfer (and the Mimic should only work if the target fails the save).

These are the only things that jumped out at me (ironically, even though I'm often more familiar with the DC characters, they've varied so much that barring a specific point in time, I'm not comfortable critiquing their design). There didn't seem any mechanical unsoundness anywhere that I noticed (someone else commented on the idiosyncratic Impervious, but you've already explained that).

I'll try to give a bit more look to the starting-character build entries when its not 90 degrees in here.

[Elric]

Constructive criticism!

1. Captain America's Shield: Though its a common build to put the defense and the ranged capability in an array, I'm not sure that's really an accurate depiction; I don't recall seeing anyone _ever_ nail Cap because the shield was in flight; it seems to return to him too quickly under normal circumstances for anyone to take advantage of this. I think I'd build it as an entirely separate power with a drawback on the device that if you Ready to shoot _just_ as he throws it, he doesn't get the defense.

This is a good point. My intent was that Captain America would use Defensive Attack when he threw the shield to recoup the bonus to Defense. Does the shield also return to Captain America too quickly for anyone to take advantage of it when he uses it to hit multiple enemies (as he would with my Selective Area Targeted Blast power)?

I’d like him to be a slightly less effective a combatant when throwing the shield as when hitting people with it (I don't know if this is the case in the comics but mechanically it can make for more interesting fights). But the easy way to do this is to reduce the rank on the Blast power to give it lower damage (it makes sense that he doesn't hit as hard with the thrown shield as with the shield in melee). So I could separate Shield and the other features and then only take the regular Blast at rank 6. Does it make sense that Captain America’s Blast to hit less hard than his shield in melee?

Additionally, what do you think the Range Increment on Captain America's Blast ought to be? If I took the rank down to 6, I'd be tempted to add the Extended Range feat. The losing the defensive bonuses on a readied action bit would be easiest as a Drawback on the Enhanced Dodge Focus part of the power (he'd lose the reduced Knockback as well).

2. Daredevil's Radar Sense: Though called that, I'm pretty sure its been treated more like echolocation/sonar most of the time over the years than anything radar related.

Good point. I think the name threw me off. So I can change the descriptor to Sonar.

3. Ms. Marvel: If that's the Carol Danvers version of the character (I have some doubts as I don't remember the energy attack on her) she also should have a super-sense; the "Seventh Sense" was a non-trivial part of her gig, and as I recall was basically some variant of Danger Sense.

It is Carol Danvers—I should have mentioned that. I was going with the more recent “Binary” version of the character, who according to Wikipedia (and Taliesin!) can project electromagnetic rays. I don’t know if that version of the character still has Danger Sense., but I’m not going to feel bound by continuity here in any case. Do you think it’s one of her defining features such that it would make her a more fun and enjoyable character to play to have Danger Sense? If so, I’ll add it back in. Is the sense type just Mental? I designed Ms. Marvel for a player who, well, let’s say she isn’t particularly interested in the rules side of the game, so I was trying to keep her simple.

4. Mystique's Morph: At least some versions of this character are able to morph to the point where she passes things like chemical tests. Since according to Steve, Morph only defaults to fooling sight, you'd need a couple of power feats to cover a few other senses when relevant.

Are you referring to Steve’s answer to you here? If so, Morph covers Visual, Auditory and Tactile. I was hoping Precise would count for some of the exotic fingerprint/retina scan type stuff. Could passing a chemical test be a use of extra effort to gain a power feat to let her do exactly that? Does she regularly fool Wolverine into not realizing who she really is? If that's the case she should have a Power Feat to cover Scent as well.

5. Luke Cage: One of the things Cage has been depicted as over the years is he's the rare brick who seems to actually be tougher than he is strong; if you don't want to attack/defense trade-off, I'd think of giving him some other abilities to represent that (perhaps bruise only regeneration).

Would Ultimate Effort [Ultimate Toughness Save] be appropriate and sufficient here? I like him a lot at PL 9. Do you think his Fortitude save (and any related abilities) are fine as is?

6. Quicksilver: You might want to add radio to the Concealment; there's an argument that a speedster can probably do this with almost all senses (since the stimulus come by so briefly the receiver doesn't have time to process it), but there's at least potential issues of leftover stimulus (sonic effects, chemical trail). On the other hand, radar and related senses almost certainly will have the same issues as vision (sonar also _probably_ should, but that's a judgment call).

So Radar and Radio and Sonar should be added to the Concealment? Since I limited this to All-Out Movement, I’m fine with him being hard to detect while moving that fast. How many ranks in Concealment would all of those be? 1 rank for Radio and then another rank to cover both Sonar and Radar?

7. Rogue: As originally depicted, it didn't seem like it was possible for Rogue to get partial powers, or to get some and leave the target up. I really think a Mimic dependent on Stun would represent her at that point better than anything with Transfer (and the Mimic should only work if the target fails the save).

I’m not quite sure what you mean here. Are you saying that she shouldn’t remove powers from someone she affects unless it’s a plot-device level “Rogue steals Ms. Marvel’s powers” kind of effect? Or just that Rogue shouldn’t get any additional powers unless the Stun/Fatigue part affects the target? If it’s the latter, then this should be covered since the Fatigue/Stun have the same DC save as the Transfer power and both are Fort saves, so there will be only one roll against them. If it’s the former, that certainly would make it easier to deal with her using the power in play.

Separately- you think the power should be Stun as opposed to Fatigue? I’d say the issue here is that Stun disables temporarily and wears off quickly, while Fatigue’s effects last a long time and don’t disable (unless you reduce the target to Unconscious). So you think Stun is a better fit for what Rogue’s abilities do?

[Elric]

Some more points about the builds:
1) I think that Superman and Ms. Marvel should lose Immunity to Disease and Immunity to Poison. I think the archetype Paragon has all of us fooled and Superman-type characters are "immune" to Poison only because they have such high Fortitude saves, not because of any specific immunity. Grumpygoat pointed this out in his Roll Call thread and I think he's right. Any thoughts?

2) I created a new feat, Ultimate Defense. Ultimate Defense: After an opponent rolls an attack roll against you and hits (but before you resolve the effects of the attack), you may spend a hero point to force that opponent to reroll the attack roll, taking the worse of the two rolls.

I go into a bit more detail about it in the thread in the rules forum here. I plan to give it to Spider-Man, Nightcrawler, and Mystique. Sound appropriate?

3) I was initially planning to stat up Jean Grey next so that I would have completed eight very iconic X-Men (Beast, Colossus, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Storm, Wolverine). However, I think Jean Grey's going to prove difficult so I'm putting her off for now. Instead I'm going to stat some more of the X-Men villains and then run a sample fight.

But this is going to be different from most sample fights because I'm going to go through what the people playing the characters would be doing/thinking, what they'd decide to do and why, and also the dice rolls and description of what's happening. Hopefully this will serve as a counterpart to my character creation examples and will help players learn the combat system.

[Paragon]

Constructive criticism!

1. Captain America's Shield: Though its a common build to put the defense and the ranged capability in an array, I'm not sure that's really an accurate depiction; I don't recall seeing anyone _ever_ nail Cap because the shield was in flight; it seems to return to him too quickly under normal circumstances for anyone to take advantage of this. I think I'd build it as an entirely separate power with a drawback on the device that if you Ready to shoot _just_ as he throws it, he doesn't get the defense.

This is a good point. My intent was that Captain America would use Defensive Attack when he threw the shield to recoup the bonus to Defense. Does the shield also return to Captain America too quickly for anyone to take advantage of it when he uses it to hit multiple enemies (as he would with my Selective Area Targeted Blast power)?

It hasn't seemed to make any difference in the cases I saw, but again, I'm not a massive Captain America fan, so I'm basing most of my observations on some Avengers issues.

I’d like him to be a slightly less effective a combatant when throwing the shield as when hitting people with it (I don't know if this is the case in the comics but mechanically it can make for more interesting fights). But the easy way to do this is to reduce the rank on the Blast power to give it lower damage (it makes sense that he doesn't hit as hard with the thrown shield as with the shield in melee). So I could separate Shield and the other features and then only take the regular Blast at rank 6. Does it make sense that Captain America’s Blast to hit less hard than his shield in melee?

I'd say so. He rarely seemed to use the ranged version except to disarm or takedown minions, really.

Additionally, what do you think the Range Increment on Captain America's Blast ought to be? If I took the rank down to 6, I'd be tempted to add the Extended Range feat. The losing the defensive bonuses on a readied action bit would be easiest as a Drawback on the Enhanced Dodge Focus part of the power (he'd lose the reduced Knockback as well).

I don't know; a 60' increment seems perfectly reasonable to me.

2. Daredevil's Radar Sense: Though called that, I'm pretty sure its been treated more like echolocation/sonar most of the time over the years than anything radar related.

Good point. I think the name threw me off. So I can change the descriptor to Sonar.

If you're using UP, as I recall the cost differs slightly, too.

3. Ms. Marvel: If that's the Carol Danvers version of the character (I have some doubts as I don't remember the energy attack on her) she also should have a super-sense; the "Seventh Sense" was a non-trivial part of her gig, and as I recall was basically some variant of Danger Sense.

It is Carol Danvers—I should have mentioned that. I was going with the more recent “Binary” version of the character, who according to Wikipedia (and Taliesin!) can project electromagnetic rays. I don’t know if that version of the character still has Danger Sense., but I’m not going to feel

I didn't even know that version had super-strength; I thought she was just an energy manipulator. I would be very suprised if the Seventh Sense was there now.

bound by continuity here in any case. Do you think it’s one of her defining features such that it would make her a more fun and enjoyable character to play to have Danger Sense? If so, I’ll add it back in. Is the sense type

Not enough contact with the character to judge, honestly.

just Mental? I designed Ms. Marvel for a player who, well, let’s say she isn’t particularly interested in the rules side of the game, so I was trying to keep her simple.

I'd have guessed so from how it was depicted.

4. Mystique's Morph: At least some versions of this character are able to morph to the point where she passes things like chemical tests. Since according to Steve, Morph only defaults to fooling sight, you'd need a couple of power feats to cover a few other senses when relevant.

Are you referring to Steve’s answer to you here? If so, Morph covers Visual, Auditory and Tactile. I was hoping Precise

Sorry, I misremembered. But that still wouldn't cover olfactory.

would count for some of the exotic fingerprint/retina scan type stuff. Could passing a chemical test be a use of extra effort to gain a power feat to let her do exactly that? Does she regularly fool Wolverine into not realizing who she really is? If that's the case she should have a Power Feat to cover
Scent as well.

As I recall, that's exactly where it came up. Note this _isn't_ true of the movie version.

5. Luke Cage: One of the things Cage has been depicted as over the years is he's the rare brick who seems to actually be tougher than he is strong; if you don't want to attack/defense trade-off, I'd think of giving him some other abilities to represent that (perhaps bruise only regeneration).

Would Ultimate Effort [Ultimate Toughness Save] be appropriate and sufficient here? I like him a lot at PL 9. Do you think his Fortitude save (and any related abilities) are fine as is?

Ultimate Toughness is, in fact, probably an ideal representation.

6. Quicksilver: You might want to add radio to the Concealment; there's an argument that a speedster can probably do this with almost all senses (since the stimulus come by so briefly the receiver doesn't have time to process it), but there's at least potential issues of leftover stimulus (sonic effects, chemical trail). On the other hand, radar and related senses almost certainly will have the same issues as vision (sonar also _probably_ should, but that's a judgment call).

So Radar and Radio and Sonar should be added to the Concealment? Since I limited this to All-Out Movement, I’m fine with him being hard to detect while moving that fast. How many ranks in Concealment would all of those be? 1 rank for Radio and then another rank to cover both Sonar and Radar?

2 for the Radio group (which includes Radar) and then one for Sonar.

7. Rogue: As originally depicted, it didn't seem like it was possible for Rogue to get partial powers, or to get some and leave the target up. I really think a Mimic dependent on Stun would represent her at that point better than anything with Transfer (and the Mimic should only work if the target fails the save).

I’m not quite sure what you mean here. Are you saying that she shouldn’t remove powers from someone she affects unless it’s a plot-device level “Rogue steals Ms. Marvel’s powers” kind of effect? Or just that Rogue

Well, in practice, when she was originally showing up in the Avengers, she might technically have removed powers, but it never mattered because if her attack worked, the target went down and out, and by the time they recovered, their powers were back. I won't claim they necessarily stuck with that later, though, as I simply don't know.

shouldn’t get any additional powers unless the Stun/Fatigue part affects the target? If it’s the latter, then this should be covered since the Fatigue/Stun have the same DC save as the Transfer power and both are Fort saves, so there will be only one roll against them. If it’s the former, that certainly

True. Hadn't thought of that (though if you want to be _really_ accurate, she shouldn't get the powers unless they're _unconscious_, at least as originally depicted).

Separately- you think the power should be Stun as opposed to Fatigue? I’d say the issue here is that Stun disables temporarily and wears off quickly, while Fatigue’s effects last a long time and don’t disable (unless you reduce the target to Unconscious). So you think Stun is a better fit for what Rogue’s abilities do?

Well, the real issue is that it it was pretty much all or nothing. If you really wanted to get finicky I'd call it a Mimic linked to a _Transform_, with the Transform turning them into a powerless, unconscious person until they recovered (and when they did, the Mimicked powers going away). Given how Transform is, I shan't be suprised if you don't want to go that route, though.

[Paragon]

Some more points about the builds:
1) I think that Superman and Ms. Marvel should lose Immunity to Disease and Immunity to Poison. I think the archetype Paragon has all of us fooled and Superman-type characters are "immune" to Poison only because they have such high Fortitude saves, not because of any specific immunity. Grumpygoat pointed this out in his Roll Call thread and I think he's right. Any thoughts?

Depends on the version, honestly. I can see some going both ways.

[Elric]

It is Carol Danvers—I should have mentioned that. I was going with the more recent “Binary” version of the character, who according to Wikipedia (and Taliesin!) can project electromagnetic rays.

I didn't even know that version had super-strength; I thought she was just an energy manipulator. I would be very surprised if the Seventh Sense was there now.

Taliesin gave her Enhanced Strength, Super-Strength, and Enhanced Constitution. Wikipedia describes her as having superhuman strength, stamina, and durability. It doesn't look like she still has Danger Sense. As I want a simple but effective character, I think I'll stick pretty much with what I have now.

Does she regularly fool Wolverine into not realizing who she really is? If that's the case she should have a Power Feat to cover Scent as well.

As I recall, that's exactly where it came up. Note this _isn't_ true of the movie version.

All the worse for Wolverine's unsuspecting player!

Well, the real issue is that it it was pretty much all or nothing. If you really wanted to get finicky I'd call it a Mimic linked to a _Transform_, with the Transform turning them into a powerless, unconscious person until they recovered (and when they did, the Mimicked powers going away). Given how Transform is, I shan't be surprised if you don't want to go that route, though.

You shouldn't be surprised that I don't want to go that route

I don't think an all or nothing Stun/Fatigue type power is going to work that well in game, but an all-or-nothing Mimic effect could work fine. Something along the lines of: Stun/Fatigue linked to Transfer (Flaw: Transfer only takes effect if save against Stun/Fatigue misses by enough to cause Unconsciousness).

You'd use the same save result against Transfer as you had against Stun/Fatigue. Given that it would have to knock you out for her to steal your powers, that would mean that she'd probably steal quite a few pps of powers when it happened. Since the stealing powers wouldn't happen on most hits, it wouldn't be as powerful as currently written. Now, given that I want the Stun/Fatigue type power to be something besides an all-or-nothing effect, which of those two do you think would be better suited?

[Elric]

Some more points about the builds:
1) I think that Superman and Ms. Marvel should lose Immunity to Disease and Immunity to Poison. I think the archetype Paragon has all of us fooled and Superman-type characters are "immune" to Poison only because they have such high Fortitude saves, not because of any specific immunity. Grumpygoat pointed this out in his Roll Call thread and I think he's right. Any thoughts?

Depends on the version, honestly. I can see some going both ways.

You mean the version of Superman, right? I'd guess that Ms. Marvel's current incarnation isn't immune to poison (although she can survive in outer space, so she has the environmental and suffocation immunities).

A question on Captain America- should I give him Improved Ranged Disarm? Also, I may drop Improved Overrun or Improved Trip from his build- I think it's kind of overkill to have both. Is either one particularly appropriate? Should he have both?

[Elric]

The Blob

Power Level 9

Abilities: STR: 32 [14] (+11), DEX: 14 (+2), CON: 14 (+2), INT: 8 (-1), WIS: 10 (+0), CHA: 8 (-1)

Skills: Bluff 13 (+12), Intimidate 13 (+12), Notice 7 (+7), Sense Motive 7 (+7)

Feats: All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Crushing Pin, Distract (Intimidate), Improved Grab, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Pin, Interpose, Power Attack, Stunning Attack, Taunt, Teamwork, Ultimate Effort (Ultimate Toughness Save)

Powers: Density 9 (+18 Strength, +4 Toughness, Impervious Toughness 4, Immovable 3, Super-Strength 3; Permanent, PF: Buoyant, Innate)
Immovable 5, Protection 8 (Extra: Impervious, Drawback: Impervious can’t “bounce” critical hits), Super Strength 2 (Heavy load: 33 tons)

Combat: Attack +7 [Unarmed +11 dmg], Defense 14 (12 flat-footed), Initiative +6, Grapple +23, Knockback -21, Weight 1250 lbs

Saves: Toughness +14 (12 Impervious), Fortitude +10, Reflex +6, Will +4

Notes: Blob is the resident brick of the Brotherhood. He’s really hard to hurt, nearly impossible to move, super-strong, and slow. Blob’s drawback on his Impervious power represents that his head isn’t as well protected as the rest of him.

Improved Grab is totally broken by the book. My house rule for Improved Grab: it doesn’t let you apply a grapple check result- it just let you start the grapple. Otherwise Blob could hit with an attack for regular damage and then win a grapple check, start the grapple and deal unarmed damage again.

Note that resisting a grapple check is a reaction. Steve has realized that he's been messing up the grapple rules and that the "resisting a grapple takes a standard action" idea (in some of his early responses on grapple) was a mistake. See here.

Crushing Pin is from the Mastermind’s Manual. Crushing Pin: While grappling, if you pin an opponent, you can also inflict your normal unarmed damage against that opponent each round for as long as you maintain the pin. You hold your opponent immobile as normal, but must remain immobile yourself to continue the crushing pin. You suffer a -4 defense penalty while maintaining a Crushing Pin, in addition to losing your dodge bonus against anyone you aren’t grappling, as normal.

Hat tip to MDSnowman for his excellent build of The Blob. Blob could make a fun hero as well as a villain—it’s always funny when a character refers to himself in the third person. He's also much quicker than he looks. Just for fun- note that without his Density power my build of The Blob would be 125 pounds- quite skinny!

[Thorpacolypse]

Some more points about the builds:
1) I think that Superman and Ms. Marvel should lose Immunity to Disease and Immunity to Poison. I think the archetype Paragon has all of us fooled and Superman-type characters are "immune" to Poison only because they have such high Fortitude saves, not because of any specific immunity. Grumpygoat pointed this out in his Roll Call thread and I think he's right. Any thoughts?

Depends on the version, honestly. I can see some going both ways.

I only give those Immunities to "immortal" types, so I didn't give them to Superman and your general paragon/powerhousese.

Man, you guys are getting way too deep for me. That's why I only promise MEDIOCRE quality builds!

And in regards to an earlier statement about perusing my builds before starting one, I am flattered, but I really do the same thing with Baron's, Taliesin's, Wordmaker's and MDSnowman's threads. Well, Kreuz's and Kerian's, too, just to get everybody's flavors.

It's funny how we all see the same characters different ways in some aspects, but in other ways we see the same things. In the end, most of the time, they really come out looking the same with just a few differences. That's the beauty of this system and why I love it so!