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Halt Evil Doer! megaverse thread

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Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:49 am

Awesome write-ups there Libra.

Truly, you managed to do a great job with President Nixon.
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Postby dirkgentry2000 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:16 am

as usual - incredible work in this thread.

I have to agree with Charles on your treatment of Nixon ("Tricky Dick" was the nickname btw) - that was a masterstroke.
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Postby Libra » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:43 pm

Thank you. I tried my best, but I'm not really familiar with American political history beyond a certain (Wikipedia!) degree.

By the way Dirk, I'm glad you liked the use of the Freedom Alliance. I remembered that Charles had posted his thoughts on their role in Heroic Earth and that he regarded their prescence as canon, so I thought I should weave them into the tapestry. :D
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Postby Libra » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:50 pm

A chap called SilentMan PM'd me this message. I have replied as best I can to them, but I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter gentlemen.

About your articles, I have a few comments. I hope you do not take offense easily.

(For the record I try not to and was not offended by this. I just don't agree with him, but he's entitled to his own opinion. I'd like to hear them - and those of others - more often on this thread. Even if I don't agree.)

The reason the Freedom League seldom left their namesake city was that, frankly, the World – even America – was a dangerous and often-unfriendly place.



Of course, heroes who can defend the world from powerful extraterrestrials had to cower from regular mortals.

In most countries governments would conscript metahumans into their service, whether willing or not.



And naturally these countries were always capable of subjugating powerful superhumans. No-so-super apparently. And then these governments apparently always had access to power nullifiers, super prisons and everything else needed.

Not wishing to provoke World War III the League seldom went where it had not been invited


How brave of them.Not. Considering that their dealings against aliens/extradimensionals might start wars against them!


Indeed this uncertainty was fed by the public clashes between superheroes – and in private those of their alter egos – with the Government and each other, caused by Nixons controversial policy of disallowing convictions based on the testimony of a masked superhuman under their costumed identity



This is one reason why it is foolish of superheroes to cooperate with the law enforcement at all. As long as they do it is always possible that authorities make things more and more difficult for them and ultimately outlaw superheroes.

Many of the public – and especially in the police and justice system – who had once supported superheroes became increasingly frustrated by their inability to deal with superhuman criminals and keep them incarcerated


Not their fault. Nixon`s fault. Unfortunately authorities have such a flawed judgement.

The first costumed and public killer vigilantes debuted at this time


So what. Conventional superheroes are not even sane.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Hero_or_Vigilan ... Moral_Code

They made a media circus, exaggerated the deed to cold-blooded murder and threw the Marvel into the deepest, darkest jail they could find


Rather naive of him to believe in the System.And less than heroic for other heroes not to interfere.

Riding high on the moral authority of having concluded peace with Vietnam and the release of the first POWs – as well as hoping to distract attention from Watergate - Nixon immediately began to shut down as many of the independent heroes as possible, declaring them virtually criminals. Most left, retired or were imprisoned.


And superheroes were of course unable to just stop Vietnam War and unwilling to topple Nixon.

No-one wanted knowledge of this to leak out, since it could topple the very foundations of the United States


So much of heroes dedication to Truth and Justice. They just want to bow before the badge and the flag.

and the ever more virulent distrust of superhumans among the population.


Superheroes are not there to be liked; only to protect the world.
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Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:55 pm

SilentMan's opinions on superheroes as the Big DawgsTM in the setting is well established, Libra. There's nothing wrong with it as everyone's Mileage May Vary.

I think you did an excellent job with the Freedom Alliance's inclusion and the role of the various spy agencies. So, what's next on your list of things to accomplish and do you have anything you're especially looking forward to describing?

Kudos also on your handling of the "development" of groups like Phantom, Shadow, and so on so that it explains how they were able to become so powerful. Also, I enjoyed your handling of the differences between Silver Age Morality and the Freedom Alliance's agent mentality.

I hope you enjoyed the write-up of the Foundation and General Venom.
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Postby Libra » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:07 pm

I certainly did, thank you. :D

As for what I plan to do next:

How else, no one else can say with a straight face "Let's talk about me."


"Let's talk about me."

"You are a man of great might, wit and even greater will. You are the first of your kind and the-"

"Greatest?" 8)

"The most terrible."

"What, then, do you see in my future?"

"I see you stood upon a palace of Ice and from it you shall cast a shadow which will cover all the Earth. Before you runs a road that twisting, weaves far beyond what the sight and mind of Man can compass. It is covered by men laid down before you, humanity in great layers.

Shallow at first, yet growing ever deeper as far as the eye may see, until you might climb to the stars themselves on the backs of these men, who lie with their faces pressed in the dirt before you."


"Who are they then, those who will serve me?"

"They are those you shall slay."
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Postby Libra » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:13 pm

My plans for the future are to try my hand at a write-up of the 80s in Earth-627 (For which I'm still trying to find a suitable title. Any suggestions gentlemen?) in a similar fashion to my treatment of the Golden Age. Then I plan to do the 1990's of Earth-627 and beyond, so any facts on that period would be welcome, Charles, if you have the time.

I'll probably do the write-ups for any unrelated ideas as and when I make the opportunity to.

I do plan to write something about the relationship between Jack Simmons and J-W-J (As Simmons called the future General Venom).
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Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:19 pm

How about "The Sunset of Heroism" (assume that the Iron Age of Freedom began in Freedom City and slowly spread outwards). It just looked better because of the Patriots being that last ray of sunlight.

As for General Venom, I've always been fond of him. He started as a fairly blatant Cobra Commander/Baron Zemo homage and gradually morphed into something more fun. He's now a more ambiguous figure like Big Boss from Metal Gear Solid (though undoubtedly certainly a villain)
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Postby dirkgentry2000 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:47 pm

Libra wrote:My plans for the future are to try my hand at a write-up of the 80s in Earth-627 (For which I'm still trying to find a suitable title. Any suggestions gentlemen?) in a similar fashion to my treatment of the Golden Age. Then I plan to do the 1990's of Earth-627 and beyond, so any facts on that period would be welcome, Charles, if you have the time.

I'll probably do the write-ups for any unrelated ideas as and when I make the opportunity to.

I do plan to write something about the relationship between Jack Simmons and J-W-J (As Simmons called the future General Venom).


I guess I was dozing in class

Earth627=HED! Earth ?

As for requests - I always want to see more on the cosmic end of things in HED - -
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Postby Charles Phipps » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:48 pm

Not quite, it's mixed HED!/Freedomverse Earth.

I always term Heroic Earth to be Earth-615.

8)

Because I called it.
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Postby dirkgentry2000 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:52 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:Not quite, it's mixed HED!/Freedomverse Earth.

I always term Heroic Earth to be Earth-615.

8)

Because I called it.


all -much clearer. I should have figured that out on my own though. I blame the residual tryptophan poisoning for that oversight...
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Postby Libra » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:09 am

A likely tale, a big strong goonie bird like yourself afraid of a little Tryptophan, HA! 8)

I'll see what I can do about Cosmic Earth-627, should Charles post any data, probably after my 80s articles.

( Fun fact: I actually took the designation from Charles' Old 'Freedomverse manifesto' thread. I like to use ideas he's left littered about, when I can.)

How about "The Sunset of Heroism"

Now that's brilliant. It means I can use one my old ideas for the 1990s: 'Twilight of the Supermen.' :D

(A small note: I may not be able to post regularly for a while, but I wil try updating this thread when I can.)
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Postby Libra » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:21 am

Jack Washington (junior) had been the protégée of Jack Simmons practically since he could walk.

You see ‘Big Jack’ – as a younger J-W-J usually referred to him - had been a close personal friend to both the first Jack Washington and Jack junior’s godfathers Hank and Tommy Griffin. Given that all of the three had been killed shortly after the Second World War it is little surprise that Jack Simmons (Who never forsook a friend - or their family) had taken an interest in the boy, beginning a series of what would become regular visits shortly after the murder of the Human Tank and Gunner.

J-W-J – as Simmons swiftly dubbed him to avoid confusion – was stricken by an acute case of Hero Worship. The Patriot, the real honest to goodness Patriot, had come to his house, had told him the swellingest stories about his adventures (J-W-Js coinage, not mine) and shown off some acrobatic manoeuvres. He’d even shown him how to perform some (More simple, less dangerous).

This was even better than finding out that his Dad was the Steel Commando – He hadn’t been told, he’d just worked his way into the armour room in his Dad’s lab – because the Patriot was just as he was in his stories, even out of costume. While Jack’s Dad was swell, but . . . just Dad outside of his armour. He never told stories about his adventures, kept sorta quiet about it, changed the topic. He didn’t want his son anywhere near that life.

Jack Washington junior doesn’t remember this, since his birth father has been little more than a memory to him since a little before J-W-Js 13th birthday and memory can change, especially with a little help from well-meaning friends.

You see, after Jack senior’s death and his own retirement as The Patriot, Jack Simmons had made looking in on J-W-J a high priority. This was made easier by Martha Washington’s decision to move back to her hometown Freehold, which happened to be Jack Simmons old beat too.

It was a rare week that didn’t see the Washington household receive a visit from Simmons – Who had helped Martha’s father, an influential politician, as a young beat cop almost twenty years before. (A connection which would help ensure his selection for the Patriot Project) – And Jack was glad to be able to talk with his old friend’s son, help him through the problems that he couldn’t tell his mother about, introduce him to other old friends of his father like Michael O’Connor (senior) himself a childless bachelor at this point in time (He would marry later in life, Michael junior a child of his age. J-W-J would act as one of Mike junior’s godfathers, before. . .) who would often tell stories ‘as they really really happened.’

J-W-J would know his father better through these stories than from actually interacting with the man. It would be his patently-obvious desire to follow in his father’s footsteps – and the memory of his father’s old enemies - that persuaded Jack Simmons to start training him from a young age in Jack’s skills, physical and leadership.

J-W-J would love and remember the tales of the Golden Age of superhumans, using them to help him to follow in his father’s footsteps, reciting them to himself like a mantra whenever his determination or spirits flagged, using them to flog near-superhuman efforts out of mind and body.

Twenty-year old Jack Washington junior would be one of the first trainees to be put through the AEGIS training course - known informally as the ‘house of serpents’ since you had to be quick, whip-smart and shed a bit of skin to get through the course (not to mention the old Urban Legend that those who got through and still didn’t meet standards would find out that the floor beneath them was a trapdoor and . . . well, you get the idea). This nickname was quietly dropped during the 80s. – And would pass with flying colours. He would even be there when the first AEGIS agents (trainees and field-rated) saw action as a unit for the first time, fighting SHADOW.

Afterwards, when Jack Simmons approached him with the offer of a full commission as an Agent of AEGIS, saying that it would be the proudest day of his life if J-W-J accepted, J-W-J refused – and then made him even prouder.

Using his connections to JFK – which partly derived from the fact that Jack’s maternal grandfather had been a supporter of the Kennedy’s practically since before they arrived on the scene – Jack Washington junior became the second Steel Commando and helped to found, and then led his own team of superhumans, the Freedom Alliance.

His triumphs inspired tremendous, almost paternal pride in Jack Simmons, although he would give J-W-J this advice after learning of some of his more extreme behaviour (Which he plans to repeat to the third Steel Commando when they formally meet):

“It’s one thing for an Agent of AEGIS or a soldier to carry a lethal weapon and be prepared to use it to kill. I carry a sidearm.

(No, of course I don’t use it, never even unholster it, but that’s because the regs say I have to carry it, not use the d- thing. I should know; I’m the boss and I wrote ‘em. I’m good enough that I have the luxury of disabling my opponents but my agents don’t. That’s part of the point I’m trying to make here.)

Son, while you wear the suit you’re a superhero and it’s dangerous to hold to that sort of mentality. While you wear that armour, you symbolise America and all it stands for, you are an inspiration to its citizens and to its allies. You are - in essence - an icon, a walking flag. Uncle Sam in a Tin.

Sometimes you may have to get your hands dirty, do what you don’t particularly like or want to, but that doesn’t mean you need to get them bloody. You have powers and abilities beyond those of most men. Use them to find a better way and remember: Dirt washes off, but blood once on your hands will stain them forever.”


J-W-J may not have agreed with these ideas but at least he kept them on his mind, for a while. He might even have come to agree with them eventually, if not for Nixon.

Shortly after his resignation, Jack Washington junior arrived, unexpected, in Jack Simmon’s Freedom City office. Without going through security first.

Simmons was glad to see him, he’d been worried sick about the man he’d come to see – alongside much of AEGIS, including Harry Powers - as very much the child he’d never have. He asked J-W-J where he’d been. Jack Washington Junior told him everything. The secrets he’d discovered about Nixon, all his suspicions and begged Simmons, practically on bended knee, to help him throw Nixon out by main force.

The old Patriot simply stared at the haggard stranger who stood before him, for a good five minutes. (Four minutes and twenty-three seconds longer than his usual decision-making span.)

“J-W. . . Son, I swore an oath to uphold the constitution and the president of these United States. I can’t act to overthrow him based only on these . . . minor malpractices.

No, son, I’m not dismissing your information, I’m simply dismissing what won’t hold up in a court of Law and Nixon will stand trial, if I can make him.

No, I’m not going to force him. This is not only a government of men you need to fix, but a nation of law and I will not act against the laws of this nation. I can’t act against him, not –“


“You too Dad? Then damn you too.”

Jack Washington junior stormed out, concealing his shame at the outburst - and embarresment at the accidental use of that word in particular, never hearing Simmons last word: “Openly.”

AEGIS was one of the many opponents of Nixon who received hard evidence against him in the dossiers provided by the House of Serpents. Jack Simmons – with a party of similarly-minded friends some distance behind him - marched right into the White House itself, in full costume for the first time in nearly twenty years, and told Nixon, face to face, that he would resign or The Patriot would throw him out of the White House by main force – and explain his actions to the entire world afterwards.

A few hours after Nixon’s resignation, The Patriot walked to confront Nixon, heard a gunshot, ran into the Oval Office – and found Richard Milhous Nixon had blown his own brains out (Though Simmons did not immediately recognise this).

Jack Washington junior, white as a ghost, stood off to one side, fighting to make sure absolutely no expression showed on his face.

For a long, silent moment the two stared at each other, so much that should have been said just hanging in the air, silent and unspoken. Then General Venom left the room.

I wish this tale ended here.

To this day Harry Powers will swear – often virulently – that it was the shame of what ‘Kid Snake’ had become and a broken heart that killed Jack Simmons, not mere cancer.

Jack Simmons himself has never forgotten J-W-J, his pride in the boy and his successes, his feelings of paternal affection. Never forgotten the expression on Washington’s face as he saw his greatest enemy sit there in the Oval Office, dead by his own hand and not yet realising that the man he considered a father was watching.

He wondered for long time what that expression was. Hate? Fear, at what he had done? Guilt? Horror? Pain, from not-yet-healed injuries? The last is near enough the truth.

It was Failure.
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Postby Libra » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:31 am

A small note:

In the canon World of Freedom, Jack would have performed pretty much as described above - then marched into the Oval Office and slapped the gun out of Nixon's hand.

"You aren't getting off that lightly."

In the canon Heroic Earth, I suspect that it was J-W-Js appearence that terrified Nixon to the point of suicide - and that Jack Washington junior, for whatever reason, didn't react in time.
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Postby Charles Phipps » Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm

Very good, still, I think it's important to note that by the year 1974, Jack Junior was thirty-four years old and not a petulent child by any stretch of the imagination. It's very nicely done and very well handled but I'd like to present an alternate view based on the same information from General Venom's perspective and would love to hear your thoughts.

Jack Washington Junior and The Patriot

The truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country.
-General Venom quoting V for Vendetta.

Jack Washington Junior had always idolized his father but it would not be a mistake to say that he knew almost nothing about him until after the man's death (and the fact the Steel Commando had been one of the first heroes to 'come out' with the blessing of Senator Atlas). Jack Washington Sr. was a lab jockey who was little good at communicating skills and his child's raising was mostly left to his wife. Martha Washington was a Army Nurse and significantly more nationalist than her husband.

Jack was raised with the image of America that his father represented and the men that embodied the ideals that he supposedly represented. The Patriot, the Freedom Eagle, the Liberators, and so on. The Unmasking Massacre followed by the dissolution of heroism at the hands of the HUAC left America with a profound of betrayal and malaise. If the government didn't believe in heroes how could the people believe in the government?

In truth, Simons and those he loved never could quite see into the dark heart of their protege's mind. The spinning cogs and whirling gears that made up one of the greatest military and industrial minds that the world had ever known. What was the difference between loyalty to a nation's stated ideals and loyalty to the state? Were they not a country founded by Revolutionaries for Free Speech and Economic Freedom? At what point did those ideals cease to have relevance? If they did, did anyone owe the country anything?

Jack Washington routinely requested missions away from the home front because he honestly didn't much care for the government or the country that he saw outside of his home front. Jack was always a radical and sympathized strongly with the 1960s that was his heyday. Part of the reason he was ushered out of the country was a rather infamous picture of a Flower Child stuffing his suit of armor with flowers (which he happily allowed). Jack's greatest frustration was, at heart, he didn't honestly feel the government was as intelligent as he was or cared about the ideas that they were supposed to be protecting.

Jack was a firm anti-communist but that was because he saw the Soviet Union had nuclear weapons that could destroy the entire world and were an oppressive state with a nonfunctional economic system. He was doomed to eventually be fired from his security position at home (even after the victory over the Fourth Reich) as soon as he turned in his report that the situation in Vietnam served no practical purpose whatsoever and was of even less strategic value compared to the Korean War. About the only decision he ever agreed with Nixon on was that China would be a strong ally against the Iron Khan and radicalizing them further by isolating them would only guarantee war.

Needless to say, Jack Simons and he disagreed about politics and vowed not to speak much about it. Besides, Washington always was willing to say the 'correct' answers in public. This two faced element was the first hint the "Age of Spies" great hero wasn't nearly the paragon of virtue that people made him out to be.

Jack, about the time that he began to see patterns in the global structure of the world's economy and military build-ups (partially related to Truman's warning against the Military Industrial Complex and his own futurism), began to speculate that the United States would have to undergo not only a tearing down of existing social norms but a rebuilding of them to restore faith in the system. A Second American Revolution, at first planned to be peaceful.

If Jack had been remotely emotionally detached from his oratory, and taken a step backwards, then he might have realized his rhetoric sounded disturbingly close to men like Lenin as much as Jefferson. Jack wasn't a fascist but it wouldn't be all that difficult for individuals to see it that way or his words to be misconstrued.

When Jack created the House of Serpents, his plan had been simple. He would confront President Nixon with the truth while seizing control of known Phantom Conspirators. Allow Nixon the grace to resign and live under House Arrest. Jack was a great believer in the truth but he believed a peaceful transition of power would be best. From there, the House would take command with Nixon transferring power to Jack and him stepping down after the State of Emergency.

Again, it sounds reasonable only when you're the one thinking it.

Jack Simons personally didn't really believe what he was hearing and honestly considered turning on JWJ during the meeting when he sounded out the plot. Jack was a great believer in the United States, some would say to a fault, and the idea that Nixon was working for Death Mask III seemed a bit like D.C. secretly being controlled by Ho Chi Minh. It smelled more like a set up of Nixon, than anything else. Needless to say, the two did not part on good terms though Jack Simons avoided presenting evidence...something he's still not sure was the right or wrong thing to do.

Richard Milhouse Nixon, on the other hand, misinterepted the scene badly. A coup de'tat by internal factions in the Intelligence and Armed Forces community? A charismatic war hero reluctantly stepping up to the plate with a gift for oratory? The old leader forced to resign and hand over power? Obviously, General Venom was working for Overshadow....or Death Mask III. It really didn't matter which. Richard took his own life in an act of defiance against the man's plans.

In the end, the government suppressed most of the incident, pardoned the House of Serpents and shushed the matter up. Jack Washington however felt that the corruption was still spread throughout the nation while the government realized that they had come perilously close to being overthrown. Realizing he no longer had a place in an establishment he no longer trusted, Jack went underground....and the rest is history.

General Venom's memories of their fateful meeting went like this.

"I'm from the old school, you don't raise arms against your government. No matter how justified you may feel."

"If you'd even had spoken at the HUAC on behalf of your friends....."

"If I'd spoken there, I wouldn't have this job."

"And a cold comfort I hope it is."
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