Halt Evil Doer! megaverse thread

[Charles Phipps]

Profiles in Heroism 1#: Black Wing II

You know that scene in Watchmen where Ozymandias surveys the huge number of Computer Screens displaying random screens of television programs and news then picks out trends from what he sees? That's Black Wing II's life in a nutshell. He's evolved into being the smartest or second smartest man in the world and wields more power than Divinos through the most dangerous weapon in the world; his mind.

The current Black Wing has arguably surpassed all of his predecessors with a career that spans not only the Golden Age but the Silver Age, the Iron Age, the Modern Era, and the Future of Wonders as well. The Raven Foundation is the world's largest philanthropic organization and is interested in making positive changes to the world like solving those problems in Africa like AIDs and world hunger while discussing how to make a profit while being environmentally sound.

So, given he's effectively what happens if Lex Luthor was not such a self-absorbed jerkass, then what exactly motivates him to put on a cape and beat up criminals every day? Because, not to put too fine a point on it, there's a fine line between genius and insanity.

Black Wing II needs the rush of helping people on the ground and the life or death struggle of the martial arts to bring him down to Earth. It'd be too easy to become a chessmaster or a Manipulative Monster otherwise. It also explains his somewhat James Bond lifestyle. Alex thrives on the rush of romance to keep him human. Women, by contrast, are attracted to his intense personality and personal charisma.

Alexander Timons personally recognizes that he's running a major risk now by continuing to put himself in the dangerous situations that he is. Really, his secret identity isn't so secret anymore, since Alexander Timons the secret identity is a far more larger than life character than he ever really intended. He's also aware that the Raven Foundation will more or less fall apart without him at the head should some random mugger get lucky someday.

On the other hand, he's also growing honestly weary of the pressures of his genius too. Being Black Wing is much easier than being Alexander Timons and he's honestly considered abandoning his 'normal' identity as a way to run away from the pressures. The fact he's intensely lonely, something that many men would want to punch him in the face for given his romantic history, only contributes to it.

As one jilted lover said "Alex would be a lot happier if he wasn't trying to be a Byronic Hero all the time."

Headquarters

Raven Nest: A series of bases underneath Falconcrest City. They used to belong to the original Black Wing but have since been converted to Alex's use. Only Dawn Wing, Ultramind 2, and Maggie Lee know where all of them are.

Raven Foundation Towers: In New Amsterdam, Los Dios, Tokyo, Hong Kong, and Falconcrest City amongst other cities that the writers wish Alex to visit. All of them are state of the art buildings also blessed with their own laboratories and secret lairs for Black Wing to operate out of.

Non-Heroic Allies

Mayor Michael Russo: David Morton is the belabored Mayor of Falconcrest City and a man that has seen too many good cops gunned down and too many innocents killed to be anything but cynical about the city. Mayor David Morton has more or less figured out that Black Wing II is probably the old Dawn Wing but actually disputes the idea that Alexander Timons is him. The basic idea being that he can't imagine anyone whose a billionaire would care what happens to the common people (a bit of classism that comes from his Italian American background of poverty).

Michael adopted the Chinese daughter of one of his police officers as he was gunned down. Ironically, he's thinking of retiring from his position because he's no longer sure he can hold off the various groups that are trying to move into Falconcrest City like SpartaCorp. (which has tried to privatize the police force on a couple of occasions like OCP from RoboCop).

Maggie Lee: A Chinese-American police officer that now works for Interpol/The Foundation for World Harmony. She's also the daughter of Mayor Russo. Maggie Lee has the unique distinction of being Crimson Dove, the short lived female version of Black Wing that appeared on the streets of Falconcrest City while Black Wing was unable to patrol the city due to his time traveling. A student of Kung Fu King's Academy, Maggie Lee is noteworthy of being actually a better fighter than Black Wing II in most respects. She's since left behind her days of being a costumed vigilante to focus on regular police work but remains one of Black Wing II's most powerful allies. As she said "I knew he was Alexander Timons before it was blindingly obvious."

A bit of a second mother to Dawn Wing II, a thought that depresses her greatly as she gets older, he honestly wishes that the two of them would get together and form a family. That's unlikely to ever happen given Maggie has no desire to become the trophy wife of a billionaire. Ironically, she's in love with Black Wing II not Alexander Timons.

Oh and please no Chun-Lee jokes, she's heard them all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCV5l5l1kLs

Stephen Gray: A fat and corrupt Reporter, Stephen Gray is always somehow on the scenes of crimes and somehow always manages to avoid the International Crime League's wrath for reporting the truth and nothing but the truth. Personally, Stephen Gray hates Black Wing and wishes the city would be without its caped freaks but has gradually come to respect the man despite himself. Stephen Gray, ironically, knows George Timons was the original Black Wing but can't believe Alex Timons is the real thing.

Ultramind 2: Blessed with the personality of Dorothy R. Waynewright and slightly more expressive than Rei Ayanami, Ultramind 2, goes by the name "Miss Crow." The unsettling maid of the Patriots Mansion and every other mansion thanks to be an AI diffused over several bodies, Ultramind 2 keeps the entirety of Alex's businesses running while they're on their way. It would be wrong to describe their relationship as romantic, Ultramind 2 isn't built that way. Instead, she provides him with much of the emotional and mental support that Alfred provides others. She's also the only person in the world who can occasionally address him as a moron.

Heroic Allies

Angel Girl: Former Romantic Partner and still occasional associate. Alex and she are unlikely to reconcile given their increasing differences. Fundamentally, she's started to move on and Alex doesn't think that he can go back to the innocent days of the past.

Dawn Wing II: Alex's son for all intents and purposes, Dawn Wing II is still one of the best defenders of Falconcrest City when Alex is away relieving famine or something. Honestly, he's become closer to George Timons since then and some have suggested he might take up the mantle of Black Wing III in the future.

Red Queen: A closer associate. Alex risks his fortune and his respectability assisting the Tomorrow Society. In fact, he's often come close to exposure and bankrupting himself by financially underwriting the organization. Ironically, the Red Queen loves Alex but doesn't care for the persona of Black Wing.

Steel Commando III: Alex's closest friend. Steel Commando II and he have a relationship a bit like Tony Stark and Jim Rhodes. SC is frequently frustrated with Alex's lies and manipulations but they remain close friends thanks to SC's providing Alex with the moral certainty he frequently lacks.

Rogue's Gallery

Black Dragon: Black Dragon has tried on numerous occasions to kill Black Wing. Black Dragon's sheer insanity prevents any plan from being able to work perfectly. The fact the wisecracking ninja is capable of testing him to the limits and past via the martial arts doesn't help. In fact, several times, the only thing that has saved Alex is the fact he's aware Black Dragon is dying and has postponed the assassin's death by a few years by devoting his genius to coming up with stop gap solutions. Even Alex has been unable to totally cure BD yet.

Death Mask III: The archnemesis of archnemeses. Death Mask III is the enemy of Divinos primarily but his relationship is far more personal with his son. Alex desires to destroy PHANTOM and SpartaCorp and has successfully managed to strike back at it and create powerblocks capable of resisting it, feats only matched by Dame Holmes. Death Mask III tolerates this and is toying with his son. Eventually, however, he intends to show him the true power of a Moriarty.

Emerald Dragon: While the Iron Khan is primarily the enemy of Steel Commando III, his daughter deeply desires to kill Black Wing for his numerous defeats of her despite her superior martial arts skill. In fact, the only person capable of cleanly defeating Emerald Dragon in the martial arts is Maggie Lee (probably the world's second greatest martial artist). Black Wing has simply won because of his superior intelligence and tactical skills, which infuriates her to no end.

Unlike Talia and Batman, there is no romance with the Emerald Dragon, merely hatred. The original Black Wing, however, had a romance with her as has Steel Commando II.

Gang Lord Gorilla:The ultimate evil of Falconcrest City. Black Wing has considered several times killing the Inhuman Simian due to the sheer depravity of the man. In the end, he's backed away because of the massive massacres that would occur in the resulting gang war. Nevertheless, he has vowed to someday bring him to justice.

More devoted is Maggie Lee whose father was killed by the Ape Lord. It's questionable which has done more damage to his operations over the years.

Gargoyle: Less an archenemy than a constant annoyance. Black Wing II has little sympathy for Gargoyle despite his cursed state and honestly just does his best to send the superpowered crook back to prison everytime he breaks out. In fact, the Gargoyle makes it easier by heading straight to Falconcrest for revenge whenever he does. Gargoyle has repeatedly proven surprisingly skilled at getting out of New Alcatraz and he's starting to wonder if his powers don't include more abilities than he thought.

International Crime League:The source of all evil in Falconcrest City. Black Wing I and II has prevented the city from becoming a kleptocracy and is responsible for driving their HQ out of the city into Las Vegas. Both Black Wing and Michelle Holmes are committed to seeing the organization destroyed. Were they ever to get the Foundation to move away from their mission of destroying PHANTOM for a bit, they just might suceed.

[Libra]

This also shows why it is wrong for superheroes to practice any sort of self-restraint. Who benefits from that restraint ? Their enemies, that`s who.

IMHO, superheroes should be MORE ruthless and aggressive than their enemies.

Archer would probably agree with that logic and the Psychotic 7 certainly would.

I do not . If superheroes become more ruthless and agressive - in other words crueler - than their enemies they would cease to be heroes, become worse than villains - and therefore become monsters.

As Bruce Wayne put it a superhero's morality and self-restraint is what makes them HEROES, rather than costumed executioners.

Still you're entitled to your own opinion and I suspect you'll prefer the Earth-627 90s to the Bright and Shiny 80s - Except, of course, Freedom City, fundamentally resembling Astro City set down in the Wildstom Universe.

I should be interested in hearing your ideas on that period, when Charles and I get around to it.

[Libra]

Charles, I myself felt a little unsure about The Patriots write-up and I apologie for any infelicities.

That being said:

Aquarius

The fact that Neptune was ambassador to the UN makes the thought of reactions to the 'Good King/Bad King' routine all the more enjoyable.

As I noted Thetis was almost betrothed to Aquarius' son. As to Ariel Theseus could find no appropriate match for her in Atlantis - Until now, when he's able to look at himself. . .

It's nice to know that Thetis has a bit of encouragement to hell-raising every so often. I get the idea that she's rather stern and proper most of the time, keen on living up to her responsibilities as future Queen of Atlantis - although she did inherit her fair share of her Grandmother's good-natured talent subtly subverting overly-stiff social mores.

Athena

I like the idea of Adrian and Athena having a fairly intimate connection. I suspect that part of his trouble dealing with her as a powerful woman derived from the fact that he perceived her as a friend and not a foe - With his opponents he could simply dismiss them as villains and concentrate on stoping them. With Athena he has no such mental defences. . .

I like your ideas for her relationship with the Centurion and I'm interested by her sojourn in San Angelo, but I can't quite pin down the reference.

Black Wing I and Dawn Wing

An excellent treatment for both. I think Archer and Dawn Wing make a logical pairing as well. I suspect that it was Kismet, not El Gato who Alex had relations with - please see The Ultimates' Black Widow for an idea of the relationship. . . .

I don't think Duncan Summers owns stock in The Raven Foundation - He owns a controlling interest in Aesculapius Inc. instead, since the majority of Daedalus' old corporate interests served as their core. The rest went to Alexander Rhodes, with a few hundred other bequests to Old Chums.

Divinos

Ha! We must be reading each other's minds, since I had thought that it would be fun to see how Cap and Divinos got along with each other. I imagine that Christmas with the Gardners - and with Pseudo as well, since Ray invites every superhero without a home or family of their own whom he meets to Christmas Dinner.

Whether Divinos gets along with Pseudo is another matter. I have the idea that they met briefly during Mikhail of Mithran's journey to Earth - and not under the best of circumstances. They have only recently re-encountered each other.

I'll be treating 'Kenneth Kane's' relationship with that Old Associate when I get around to the villains. Let's just say he gets along better with Saturnalia - deeply, deeply creepy, by the by - and that The Roman is closer to the Elliot S! Maggin Luthor and leave it there.

Janet Hermes

Most excellent!

I'm very fond of your Isis, Robin Hood, and Samson write ups, as is.

Thank you. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the Red Jaguar/White Lion relationship myself.

Robin Hood

Now that is just Awesome. This is a perect example of my idea of what a crossover should be: A way of telling the stories of a Universe that need o be told and would be cool anyway - Bit which are far more awesome if you use another set of equally cool characters from another setting.

I love your write-up of Alex Timmons by the way. I would love to see one for Divinos, since I have a bit of trouble getting my mind around him. I can get the basics, but would love to learn more.

One last suggestion: Why not use Plain Brown Wrapper's Bedlam City as a resource for fleshing out Falconcrest? I'll post more on the idea when I've finished reading.

[Charles Phipps]

Profiles in Heroism 2# Divinos

I hear everything. You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior, but every day I hear people crying for one.
-Superman, Superman Returns

Divinos is a cursed figure in many ways. He desires desperately to allay human fears and wipe away our tears but he is also seperated by his powers from us. Thus, he always exists on the edge of human civilization. He is a figure that is always looking in on humanity but is not one of humanity. It's an easy mistake to make that so many people associate the Golden Guardsman with an angel.

In truth, Divinos only really feels comfortable amongst his fellow superheroes. Normal people almost frighten Divinos and several times he's struggled with his own growing sense of apathy and distaste for a world that has so much potential but also is one that routinely undercuts itself. Humans are, for better or worse, Divinos' people now. As much as he'd love to join the Ashura, he's come to consider Earth his home and a place to be protected. Still, every day is a struggle to realize that humans could become as great as the Mithran or every bit as evil as the Abaddon.

Divinos is very much a Superman figure that lacks a Clark Kent to allow him to unwind. Instead, his spare time is mostly spent in Seventh Heaven with Ultramind 2 and the vast archives of his world. His fellow Patriots have often commented this is an unhealthy life but Divinos honestly worries about losing himself in human culture. He does not consider it inferior, per say, but he fears that without a constant reinforcement of his old homeworld's moral values then he'll start misusing his awesome abilities. The fact that Angel Girl doesn't and successfully maintains a mortal identity just highlights that Divinos is scared of stepping beyond his old life.

Honestly, Mikail is a humble sort that is uncomfortable with the fact he's become Earth's premiere champion. A minor guardsman back on Mithran, he still tends to consider himself little more than a footsoldier. This humility is something that made General Iblis truly hate him, since Mikail's inherent nobility and strength were well greater than most of his kind.

One odd factor of Divinos is the fact he is something of a romantic figure. He's had numerous doomed romances that only help contribute to the fundamental sense of doom that hangs over him.

Headquarters

Seventh Heaven: The battleship/space station that hangs over the Earth is Divinos' home. He can usually be found here when not flying over the Earth or practicing with the others in the Patriots mansion. His closest companion is Ultramind 2.0, whom he shares a friendly and close relationship with the drones of. Divinos was shocked at the suggestion by Black Wing II that she and he might become closer, something that still surprises Alex.

Non-Heroic Allies

Betsy Bobbin: A young Anglican priest's daughter who befriended Divinos when he first fell to the Earth and literally crash landed in their abandoned church. Betsy is less Divinos' girlfriend and more his girl sidekick, having been through many adventures with him thanks to the fact that she was the one to introduce him to the planet. Betsy has had a bizarre history with Divinos thanks to the fact that his enemies would routinely track him down to her home and Kenneth Kane eventually figured out their connection.

Betsy is now in her thirties since he doesn't age and she most certainly doesn't. Divorced, Betsy still maintains a torch for Divinos and privately wishes that they could be together but seems to think that he thinks the differences between them are insurmountable. Betsy is quietly religious and has actually performed a few seeming miracles that have helped Divinos' keep his faith in mankind.

It should be noted Bobbin is her married name and is amused by its connection to Frank Baum ("Betsy Bobbin" being the play version name of the Wizard of Oz's heroine)

Reverend Blake: Divinos' spiritual advisor and father figure. Father Blake doesn't believe Divinos is a genuine angel but thinks that the coincidences in his name, imagery, and acts are evidence of a greater hand at work. Father Blake is dying of cancer at this moment and has been for four years. He privately doesn't approve of his daughter's relationship with Divinos but thinks it would be wrong of him to interfere. Father Blake was the man who helped Angel Girl adjust to her new circumstances and privately wishes she'd return to them rather than live her life away from them.

Cherub the Super Cat: A six legged Mithran furry creature that possesses much of their power, Cherub the Super Cat is actually intelligent and telepathic. However, his race never let the Mithran know this until very recently. Cherub is a lazy creature who mostly plays Devil's Advocate to Divinos' regular arguments with himself. He's also Betsy's unofficial guardian against all manner of ills.

Heroic Allies

Angel Girl: Divinos' only living relative, she's the only person he's honestly able to totally relax around. They often make snow angels in the arctic and gigantic ice sculptures that remind them of their lost homeworld. Angel Girl was able to cope with the loss of their homeworld well enough and he sometimes envies her ability to fit in. The only time that Divinos goes totally *NUTS* is when she's endangered (he's even attacked Abaddon...alone). Only Betsy being threatened brings out a similiar response.

Athena: Athena is one of the few beings Divinos is comfortable with. Primarily because they are similiar in powers. As with Black Wing I, she had a relationship with him but in the end it failed because she was called back to Olympus to deal with a marriage attempt by Zeus for her. The relationship had cooled by this time.

Athena often comments that Divinos acts more like a god than many Cosmic Eternals do and has several times offered him the chance to become one of her race rather than a "mere" cosmically powerful alien. Divinos has refused these offers several times, believing it blasphemous to his own faith. She's amongst the strongest encouragements he should 'lighten up.'

Black Wing I and II:The Black Wings, to Divinos, represent something of what he believes humankind can reach if given enough time. His relationship with George Timons is something that still causes him to visit the retired superhero for advice. While he disliked the man's desire to frighten criminals into submission, he also respected the man possessed a practicality even he didn't but one tempered by a desire to never kill.

Divinos is somewhat more tepid to Alexander Timons. While he sees much of George in him, he sees more the fact that Alex is the son of his worst enemy. Divinos believes Alex is a good example of what Kenneth Kane/Death Mask III could have been if he gave up his petty schemes for power but also worries tremendously that he might follow in his father's footsteps.

Eilonwy: The descendant of Lancelot and Queen Guinevere. Eilonwy hails from the same Earth as Queen Pendragon (which may simply be a portion of Otherworld). Possessed of magical gloves and a belt of power that she won from Thor plus the sheath of invulnerability, she's almost Divinos' equal. Plus, she's also strong enough in purity to wield Excalibur. Possessed of a personality similiar to Eowyn from Tolkien's Middle Earth.

Eilonwy is a demon hunter charged by Merlin to destroy the creatures that attempt to cross from the Inferno into her reality and the surrounding realities (which include Divinos' own realm). She and Divinos care for one another deeply but both are so stately that they'd never think of doing anything untoward. She also is under a self-enforced vow of celibacy until marriage, which Black Wing II comments is a waste.

Enemies

General Iblis: Recently resurrected by Ultramind and attempting to impersonate Divinos. General Iblis is now a cybernetic organism that despises the monstrouscity that he's become. Iblis hates Divinos as much as he wants to conquer the Earth and his warped values almost completely fail to resemble anything the Mithran once believed in. Mikail unwittingly aids in the degredation of Iblis' sanity every time that he spares him.

Kenneth Kane: Divinos' most consistent archnemesis. Kenneth Kane's hatred for Divinos does not come from the fact that he's jealous of the alien's super powers (though he is), or the universal admiration he has (though he is), or the fact that Divinos has thwarted countless plans to make him even more powerful (though he has). It's the fact that Divinos is content to be a servant to humankind rather than its master. That kind of attitude offends the Nietszchian devotee on every level and makes him desperate to prove Divinos weak.

Divinos, on the other hand, sees a man who represents the absolute worst humanity could offer the universe and what he fears most they might turn into. Even though he's long since learned that Kenneth is Death Mask III, Divinos still refers to him by his alias.

Mister Hoppy: The Lord of Inferno is a man who enjoys tweaking the nose of the Golden Guardsman's morality. Thus, the Devil routinely appears to test Divinos' sanity and his sense of right and wrong with his powers. This is all to Mister Hoppy's amusement and the games are surprisingly harmless (though often can cause tremendous mental stress before he sets everything right at the end). Mister Hoppy has several times used Divinos to destroy more "serious" Lords of Nightmare seeking to overthrow him, providing his amusing act is just that.

Orkus: The Lord of Darkness is Divinos' most powerful enemy and the two have battled repeatedly, sometimes to Divinos' near-ultimate defeat. Still, billions of people across the galaxy owe their salvation to Divinos and he's proven that the Entropic Master can be defeated. Divinos does not consider Entropic Masters truly alive and has destroyed several (Demons and Robots are also on his list of 'acceptable' targets). This may be due to the fact that Orcus can resurrect them at will.

Puzzles: Divinos' clone is someone that he feels a parternal affection to but also an overwhelming distaste for. Puzzles' threats towards Betsy and his own more willingness to pursue hidden romantic feelings, shows Divinos his own Id given life and it drives him to occasionally lose control over his tight emotions. Puzzles, himself, is like Frankenstein in that he's pitable but also a very dark soul.

Ultramind: The embodiment of cold and soulless logic, Ultramind holds Divinos' emotionality in contempt. Divinos hates the embodiment of his culture has become the enemy of the values of Mithran. Mikail's has tried several times to destroy the creature permanently but has failed repeatedly. Ultramind is not Mikail's physical equal but has numerous robots that are capable of compensating.

[Psistrike]

Very interesting combination of the two settings, with bits and pieces from other settings as well. Keep up the great work, both Charles and Libra.

I would love to see you two work together to make a combined Marvel/DC universe.

[Charles Phipps]

Thanks.

Glad you're enjoying.

My only regret is that some niches are already pretty filled.

Still, it's interesting to speculate on Raven II/Black Wing II's work together.

or how Athena and Lady Liberty get along.

[Charles Phipps]

Charles, I myself felt a little unsure about The Patriots write-up and I apologie for any infelicities.

Oh, it's fine.

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Divinos write-up and anything you especially like in the two write-ups.

BTW, it's possible.

* Maggie Lee

* Michelle Holmes

and a few extra might be included in the revised HED!

[Libra]

I must say that your works are up to your usual high standards.

The only truly original thought that occurred to me was that you might want to make Father Blake Reverend Blake.

The Anglican Church does not - I believe - refer to their priests as 'Father.'

Another thought: Why not make Blake snr female? Given that Mikhail left his father behind on Mithran, supposedly dead, he'd probably be rather unwilling to betray his memory by giving his devotion to a human.

It also adds another dimension to the relationship between Angel Girl and the Blakes, in my opinion. Just a thought.

Psistrike, thank you for compliments, but Charles deserves them more than I. I merely play in his sandbox, but he constructed it.

As to your idea, it sounds like an interesting idea for another time, but do let us get bored with Earth-627 first, if we ever do.

Charles, a question: How do the various heroes of Earth-627 view the Psychotic 7?

[Charles Phipps]

Whoops, Fixed.

I must say that your works are up to your usual high standards.

Thanks, I just hope I got a good idea for Divinos's personality.

Another thought: Why not make Blake snr female? Given that Mikhail left his father behind on Mithran, supposedly dead, he'd probably be rather unwilling to betray his memory by giving his devotion to a human.

Well his mother is back on Mithran dead as well. Mostly, it's the fact that the Reverend plays the part of Divinos' spiritual council and Alfred figure. Divinos doesn't call him Dad or anything he relies on him in a lot of ways that I chose to describe him as a father figure (despite that Mikail was an adult when he arrived)

It also adds another dimension to the relationship between Angel Girl and the Blakes, in my opinion. Just a thought.

Angel Girl might actually just call the Reverend "Dad."

Charles, a question: How do the various heroes of Earth-627 view the Psychotic 7?

The Psychotic Seven squandered a lot of good will from the time of the Justicars to be honest. The Iron Age was a pretty damn rotten time period and some of the worst heroes actually ended up getting killed by the P7, so they were fairly well respected during their heyday. The Justicars were a secret team for most of the Silver Age but rumors of a secret team of covert operatives never died during that time and dictators feared them more than the Patriots.

But now? Now, the Psychotic Seven basically has been utterly villified by the coup. Even former allies have turned against them, not necessarilly because of the Authority style coup but by the fact that they allied with so many individuals that were genuine scum and relied on military force to crush the government involved.

In general, it goes something like this.

The Average Hero on the Street: Considers them monsters.

Athena: Hecate is the one she most wants to seperate from the pair and slap around until she starts acting sensible. The rest, she could honestly care less about, though she understands Aquarius' grief.

Black Wing II: The crowning achievement of his life was stopping them in his opinion. Black Wing II would love to see them brought behind bars and often spends time trying to track them down. He's trying to avoid thinking about Hecate.

The irony is not lost on the P7 that DAWN WING (oh the GALL) is perfectly willing to kill them and in fact already has done one of their members.

Divinos: Attempts to bring them back to the side of the Angels when they meet. Argues they might someday earn back their redemption if they abandon their brutal ways.

Steel Commando II: Standing orders to kill them if ever encountered. Steel Commando II considers this fight personal. Ironically, the Psychotic Seven don't even really acknowlege his existence.

Headless Horseman: Has attempted twice to claim the souls of Jack Union and his sister. Ironically, despite how utterly hateful that he is towards the group, he's not attempted to claim anyone else's soul in it.

Still he's made several oblique warnings that they will soon pass beyond the point of no return.

[Editor's Note: A reminder that the Headless Horseman is an Executioner like the Spectre as opposed to a crime fighter. The Headless Horseman only kills those who are Damned. Oddly, in the mythical Ostrander Headless Horseman series; issues of Damnation and Redemption are always center stage]

Robin Hood and Samson: Both have actively attempted to fight their former associates despite how VASTLY outmatched they are. They suffered a humiliating defeat but won the moral battle as Aquarius and Red Jaguar got a mouthful from Robin Hood that they'd become what they'd fought.

Merlin: Has no problem whatsoever with them. Several times, there have been Merlin/Psychotic Seven One Shots where he teleported the Psychotic Seven to fight Eldricht Horrors or other dimensional invasions to save the cosmos. Unwittingly, the Seven have saved the world a few times since their disgrace but no one will ever know it.

[Charles Phipps]

For the benefit of SilentMan, I'm going to give my opinion of the Twilight of the Superheroes.

Fundamentally, the conflict between the Psychotic Seven and the Patriots really has no "Good Guys" and "Bad Guys" as dismissing the retalliation of the Psychotic Seven's monarchs against the United States as something that makes them purely villainous is a simplication of the matter. It's also very much what exactly the people of the United States have done against them. The Psychotic Seven and the vigilantes of the Iron Age that sided with them have been largely villified by the media as a way of putting it all past them.

In actuality, that reading of the situation is honestly rather naive. Unfortunately, for Silentman's sympathy to an Authority style takeover, the real issue boils down to the fact that the Psychotic Seven are NOT the men for the job. To be perfectly frank, the world might be a better place were Black Wing II and Athena to have mounted a coup de'tat or even Doctor Aeon. These three have the mental prowess and wisdom to properly manage the world in a Doctor Doom style benevolent dictatorship. Of course, Doctor Aeon didn't do this during WW2 when the situation was much worse and Black Wing II would much rather manipulate from behind the scenes. It's no coincidence that Timemaster is largely identical in morality to his ancestor, it's just that he is a despot because the situation was different for him to come to power.

Red Jaguar and Aquarius COME CLOSE and had they not made some critical errors then they honestly would have been able to shake the pear tree loose of government corruption like Project: Icarus (which is like the worst elements of Marvel's Weapon X) and some genuine monsters like the ones who invaded their country. They might even have been able to defeat General Venom's plots to subvert the United States democratic process. Unfortunately, both were fundamentally crippled by the fact that they were fighting for revenge as much to liberate the United States from the people who'd used it as a hammer against their nation.

At heart, Aquarius and Red Jaguar are just too damn arrogant and emotional.

Really, the mistakes that cause Red Jaguar and Aquarius' coup to fail are ones that would need to be corrected for the whole thing to work. Jack Union and his sister are five cans short of a sixpack and any government they're a part of is going to have severe failures. Moss Pit and Manhatten Project are also inhuman while Hecate is under the influence of Ares the God of War and could never be a part of a peaceful settlement. Ramses II is little more than a future Catspaw for Timemaster and has all of Red Jaguar and Aquarius' flaws x4. This is without recruiting fools like Sawbones.

Ironically, the Patriots devotion to the Status Quo certainly didn't do much for the world either. Had Black Wing II's "Modern Superheroes" chosen to side with Aquarius and Red Jaguar, then they might not have needed the monstrous vigilantes that sided with them. It might have lead to a peaceful seizing of the war criminals and the conflict over in a day. It was BWII's belief that Aquarius and Red Jaguar would never relinquish control of the United States that lead him to side with the Patriots against them. This is actually a misreading of Aquarius and Red Jaguar's intentions since neither of them really wanted domination of the world's sole remaining superpower at that time. They just wanted to teach the world a lesson about invading smaller countries and get some measure of revenge.

In any case, there was really no way that the battle could have ended up perfect. Black Wing II's love of democracy and personal pragmatism automatically inclined him to side with the "underdogs" in humanity against Aquarius and Red Jaguar's group. Ironically, Hecate's presence almost guaranteed he'd go against them since he was still stinging from her betrayal of the FOF. Likewise, Red Jaguar and Aquarius never thought to limit the size of their attack to merely the guilty parties but tried to take over the entire country which (of course) roused pretty much every American into a fighting spirit.

Really, the ambiguity of it is deliberate. In the Book of Villains there's a similiar argument over General Venom's use of the Pyramid of Light. He, in one stroke of a pen, successfully ends all war across the globe and sets up a universal United States Empire. One that he semi-benevolently rules with an iron fist. Black Wing II and Steel Commando both have to deal with the fact that it's, in many ways, quite superior to the world they've left behind.

In this respect, it says more about General Venom than them, in that it was HE who gave up the world voluntarily.

But yes, SilentMan, if you feel that the P7 got a raw deal. You're not wrong.

[Charles Phipps]

Here's a fun exercise.

What if X Character Took over the World?

Black Wing II: See the JC Denton ending of Deus Ex. Alexander Timons would undoubtedly use Ultramind II's nanotechnology to give all humanity the benefit of superior health, intelligence, and limited superpowers while linking them to central computer systems across the world to be more educated. Automatically, national borders and conflicts would more or less disappear and he'd set himself up as a benevolent scientific dictator. Humanity would swiftly go on to become a major galactic power with lifespans tripled.

Count Reich II: Bluntly, humanity would die. Eventually, he'd nuke the planet and raise a small number of survivors as undead horrors or he'd eventually be revolted against by the whole of humanity and exterminate them in a fit of pique. That is, if he didn't summon Orkus to devour the world as a suicidal final gambit to achieve godhood.

Death Mask III: A ruthless totalitarian dictatorship and technocracy. Humanity would prosper under Death Mask's rule but the number of people executed or disappeared yearly would be tremendous. It would be instead ruled by a secret Illuminati elite of super intelligent individuals chosen from an elite council and their thugs. Oddly, it would work out pretty similarly to the ending of Wanted. Not a nice place but it would still be recognizably Earth and people would live on as before.

Doctor Aeon: Had he taken Helios' route and joined with him and Lady Britainnia then undoubtedly the planet would have been spared World War 2. Zeppelins with gunpowder destroying weapons and Pacification Rays would have prevented any real opposition to him and a restructuring of the world into a World Wide Federation with a Science Council would have probably seen a Buck Rogers style art-deco future around the end of the 20th century.

Dracula: Vampires, Feudalism, Humans. Do you need a map drawn? Oddly, he's slowly working on this by creating Blade style vampire houses and slowly taking over humanity's ruling classes to become literal parasites.

General Venom: Pretty much as described by Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers. Mankind would again prosper and there would be an uncomfortable blind patriotism underscoring EVERYTHING but it would probably be a fairly better world than the current one. GV lacks the intelligence of Death Mask and Black Wing but could conceivably rule without civilization collapsing.

Iron Khan: Chinese Hells on Earth. The Iron Khan would populate it with Demons, Oni, and his assassins to divide the world into a Two Party System: The Masters and the Slaves. Magic would largely replace science and he would reign as Dark Lord of the planet until he got bored and set his sights on dominating other worlds or dimensions.

The Psychotic Seven: Fundamentally, if they killed off Jack Union and his sister or locked them away they might be able to do a halfway decent job of mitigating the world's MANY crises. Unfortunately, they'd never get away with what the others could. Law, however, would be swift and brutal.

Red King: Not too disimilar to The House of M except also add the world of Gattica. The world would be controlled by Genetic Predestination and everyone would be tested constantly to try and create better and stronger babies. So, worse than if General Venom ruled the world, but better than Death Mask III.

Ultramind: Would be forced to become the New Mithran. Which is a wonderful thing for the 1% or so that would survive the genetic tampering, mental brainwashing, and subsequent environmental changes. Then he'd get mad because they didn't obey him...

[SilentMan]

Thanks for the answer. It was polite

and included everything necessary.


Libra said that his idea of superhero is Classical Cape.

I prefer Reformer-type who can do more than just punch villains.

Unfortunate thing in most comics is that anyone who tries to change Status Quo ends up making the world worse.

And this leads to Reed Richards is Useless-trope. I would prefer that heroes could change at least SOMETHING.

[Charles Phipps]

And this leads to Reed Richards is Useless-trope. I would prefer that heroes could change at least SOMETHING.

I understand. I've tried to make both available in Heroic Earth. Earth in the year 2008 is a "Near Future" environment that is better for it's heroes but also closer to disaster for its villain.

Heroes have made the world a better place but they don't have perfect wisdom to fix everything.

[SilentMan]

The Psychotic Seven: Fundamentally, if they killed off Jack Union and his sister or locked them away they might be able to do a halfway decent job of mitigating the world's MANY crises. Unfortunately, they'd never get away with what the others could. Law, however, would be swift and brutal.

So even if they had won, they could not have maintained their grip on power.

Incompetents.

[Charles Phipps]

So even if they had won, they could not have maintained their grip on power.

Incompetents.

Part of the issue is the situation is different from the Authority. The Psychotic Seven have the POWER but they don't have the crisis either. The destruction of a major European country and other massive displays of supervillain danger pretty much made the Authority's takeover believable.

Should the Psychotic Seven takeover, they'd have to eliminate all the world's major supervillains while also dealing with a populous that neither trusts or respects them the same way the Authority does. Red Jaguar and Aquarius are smart enough to rule but the rest, not so much.

So yeah, they needed Apollo and Midnighter or Hell, just Jenny Sparks.