The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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Tattooedman
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Post by Tattooedman » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:16 am

I've been reading through these posts this morning and I've got to admit that they are definitely well thought out and well written.

Congrats on that!

Honestly, who hasn't thought about using or actually used a merged DC/Marvel setting at some point in their GM career? I know I have though I never really had my PCs interract that much with all of the main heroes focusing more them. Although they did have dealings with Batman, Spider-Man, Flash, Captain America and Iron Man.

But anyways I'm rambling off again on a tangent.

Again great work and I'm looking forward to what else you have to share with us.
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Post by Psistrike » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:44 pm

Perfect description for both the nature and personality of both Superman and Spider-Man. Can't wait to see your take on the likes of the Fantastic Four and the major team members of both the Avengers and Justice League.

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Post by Davies » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:45 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:Spiderman

Pete is currently undergoing a period where his memory of his marriage to Mary Jane is erased and several other details of his life have been altered by Mesphito. This is unlikely to last but was designed to devastate Peter by removing his support network and turn him to evil. Mesphito might not have even bothered. Even in the face of the world against him, Peter always just climbs back into battle to fight the good fight.
Charles, you have just managed to make the ... hell, any words I'd use to describe it would be inappropriate for both the season and the board -- but you've managed to make it as close to palatable to me as it's likely to get. Brilliant.

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Post by MightyDavidson » Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:31 pm

Davies wrote:
Charles Phipps wrote:Spiderman

Pete is currently undergoing a period where his memory of his marriage to Mary Jane is erased and several other details of his life have been altered by Mesphito. This is unlikely to last but was designed to devastate Peter by removing his support network and turn him to evil. Mesphito might not have even bothered. Even in the face of the world against him, Peter always just climbs back into battle to fight the good fight.
Charles, you have just managed to make the ... hell, any words I'd use to describe it would be inappropriate for both the season and the board -- but you've managed to make it as close to palatable to me as it's likely to get. Brilliant.

Chris Davies.
Really, all he has to do to make it perfect would be to say that that turn of events didn't come about as a concious decision on Peter's part but as a trick by some villain. He's assisted Dr. Strange in enough cases that one of his enemies might be interested in causing him trouble after all.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:32 pm

Charles Xavier

Charles Xavier has always personally wondered if the universe has something personally against mutants and possibly him in particular. It seems that every time he manages to make progress in Mutant-Human relations, something occurs that sets it back to the Stone Age.

Charles comprehends what his heir and second in command, Scott Summers, occasionally doesn't. Humans do have a reason to be afraid of mutants. His work in Israel with Holocaust survivors showed him the depth of human evil. However, the thought of combining that with the power of a being like Apocalypse or Cassandra Nova keeps him up at night almost as much as the thought of Sentinels.

The School for Gifted Youngsters has another purpose other than teaching mutants to use their powers and keeping them safe from human persecution. The Institute exists to also teach young mutants to use their powers responsibly. Charles has discussed the issue at length with such mental luminaries as Niles Caulder (before their friendship was broken up by the increasingly obvious insanity of the man), Wonder Woman (whose Amazonian society he was intrigued in despite his swift realization that it was impractical to apply most lessons from it in real terms), and the Martian Manhunter (the only alien psychic whose power rivals his own).

Charles has a certain element of tolerance for Magneto's rampages because he recognizes the justified fear that lurks behind his mindset. Charles knows of monsters like Weapon-X's Director who are not so different from the Nazis in their attempts to institute Final Solutions to Mutants and people like Graydon Creed who would not have been out of place in the KKK during the height of their power. He also is aware of people like Steve Rogers and billionaire Bruce Wayne who bear no ill will towards them. As much as Charles is suspicious of the United States government, he also knows that career spooks like Nick Fury and Amanda Waller only want security from super powered threats not the destruction of all super powered individuals. Even Henry Peter Gyrich doesn't hate mutants. He just hates unknowns.

Really, his almost inhuman calm and patience comes from the fact that Charles is a mind like the world has rarely seen. All the world's intellects and minds are open for him to see into and Cerebro touches him to humanity at its worst (and best). But his calm and dignity are matched by a mind that go beyond mere supernatural empathy. Had Charles Xavier not been a mutant, he would have still gone down in history as a leader and peacemaker. Instead, history has reserved another role for him. That of coordinating man's ascension into something better; not just mutants. Mutants are just a sign of it, but what he believes in is a better mindset for mankind. A mindset to mark the transition to a truly Post-Human Society. A mindset where his telepathic skill shows him that humans can at last achieve a unity that transcends their petty differences and embraces their fellow humans as brothers. Even fellow psychics like Emma Frost and Jean Grey are often astounded at such a vision.

Unfortunately, Charles now presides over the fact that natural evolution into a thriving mutant subculture won't occur in his lifetime. Cassandra Nova, a mutant like himself, butchered half the mutant race at Genosha and the Scarlet Witch transformed nearly all the rest into "mere" humans. For Charles, he doesn't actually feel this will slow him down. His enemy is not the human genome, it is the hatred and violence of the "other." Whether he stops it before mankind becomes superhuman or while it is happening...doesn't really matter to him.

It would be wrong to ignore Charles' flaws, though. Even though less than 1% of humanity violently hates mutantkind, it is a constant struggle to know that he could just make that hatred disappear. Charles knows that once he crosses that road, he's no different than Magneto and he might as well create a "House of X" where he rules with an iron fist. He'd never do that. Changing a person's mind violently is like rape. Few understand this. Still, at times, there's the temptation...

Charles has also had to make some tough decisions in his life. Some of them, he regrets, like not telling Scott about the team that was wiped out on Krakoa Island. Others, he's unrepentant of (keeping Xavier Protocols on the X-men---the possibility of mind control and things like the Brood just made that sensible). Xavier lives with these decisions from day to day though and just keeps trying to leave the world better than he found it.

Maybe that is his best claim to being the next step in human evolution.

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Post by SFiercex4 » Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:43 pm

Charles, you've done some great work here. I've always dreamed of a Marvel-DC combined universe, and your descriptions here so far have been excellent. I found the two greatest issues to be team rosters and histories and meshing character origins so as to have them fit into similar timescales. Yea, both of these worlds use somewhat of a sliding timescale for their events (Marvel definitely does, DC doesn't explicitly mention their timing all that often, but it feels like it's constantly sliding as well). I look forward to seeing those issues tackled and would be glad to be of assistance in tackling them as well.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:50 pm

SFiercex4 wrote:Charles, you've done some great work here. I've always dreamed of a Marvel-DC combined universe, and your descriptions here so far have been excellent. I found the two greatest issues to be team rosters and histories and meshing character origins so as to have them fit into similar timescales. Yea, both of these worlds use somewhat of a sliding timescale for their events (Marvel definitely does, DC doesn't explicitly mention their timing all that often, but it feels like it's constantly sliding as well). I look forward to seeing those issues tackled and would be glad to be of assistance in tackling them as well.
Thanks, oddly, I tend to stick with Halt Evil Doer's own as a fairly accurate assumption of how things work in the world. The first superheroes of the modern age (which Marvel takes place in) and we'll take as Superman's "Man of steel" mini-series taking place in are about fifteen years in the past. Which gives time for 13 year old Dick Grayson to age and become 28 year old Nightwing and twenty five or so year old Bruce Wayne to become a forty year old man. I.e. getting too old for this but still realistically in the business.

Getting down specific ages like Kitty Pryde's debut and so on will take pretty much individual entries.

Obviously, the Golden Age of Captain America and the Justice Society is pretty much as is but ironically Marvel lacks a Silver Age (then again, so do most of the cool "modern heroes.").

Peter Parker, young or not, is about 29 or 30 since he was 15 when he debuted. Which I think more accurately fits "Swinging Bachelor" Spidey than "Just barely out of college" one that Marvel pretends he is.

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Post by Davies » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:12 pm

Charles Phipps wrote: Obviously, the Golden Age of Captain America and the Justice Society is pretty much as is but ironically Marvel lacks a Silver Age (then again, so do most of the cool "modern heroes.").
Could use the Lost Generation from Marvel and the Justice Experience from DC for that.

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Post by Libra » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:40 am

Hmmm. I've done a little research and that seems fair enough. I'd make them a fairly obscure part of Earth-777 history though, since they almost certainly came and went fairly quickly, without making Superman's public impact, presumably substantially less powerful than him.

Perhpas there was a fad for costumed crimefighting, somewhat similar to that seen in Watchmen?
Thanks, oddly, I tend to stick with Halt Evil Doer's own as a fairly accurate assumption of how things work in the world.
Not that odd. It's what you're comfortable with and it suits the Modern Comics.

I'll have to do some thinking on the Timeline.
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Post by Rubber Baron » Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:33 pm

I've done a lot of work on a shared universe, but I took it back to its roots. Taking an idea from Aaron Allston's Champions universe, I established that all the classic heroes showed up exactly when they showed up in the comics and most of them are thus dead or retired by now.

I've changed all the DC fictional cities to real American equivalents. Off the top of my head...

Gotham City = Philadelphia
Metropolis = New York
Star City = Baltimore (I have no idea how a very East Coast city managed to turn into Seattle. I realize that Green Arrow got moved to Seattle, but that doesn't mean his home city had to migrate to the West Coast)
Coast City = Los Angeles
Central City = Chicago
Gateway City = San Francisco
Midway City = Kansas City
Fawcette City = St. Louis
Opal City = Cincinatti
Dakota = Pittsburgh (or maybe Detroit)
St. Noir = New Orleans

And so forth. Many of these are common translations, others might need explanation, and some just seemed appropriate at the time.

I also swiped the idea from Aaron that there has only been one Green Lantern ring, Alan Scott's. I added the concept that people who wear the ring eventually gain the Starheart powers on their own, and they pass the ring along. As the first, Alan didn't realize he didn't need the ring until the 60s, when he gave it to Hal Jordan. Jordan passed it on to Guy Gardner, and later intervened to give it to John Stewart instead, but it was too late, Gardner already had the power. Stewart passed it to Kyle Rayner, who recently passed it to a new hero, the first woman to use the ring. Whoever uses the ring uses the title Green Lantern.
Jade is, of course, Alan's daughter.
Fire is, surprisingly, the daughter of Hal Jordan. The former possessors of the green power (except for Hal Jordan, who died heroically fighting the Star Eater) have all taken up new names.
Alan Scott - Sentinel
Guy Gardner - Warrior
John Stewart - Dark Star
Kyle Rayner - Nova Verde (using Spanish in honor of his Hispanic father)

And so forth. It can mostly be found on my website www.perrinworlds.com. For the longest time it was the universe in which I ran all my superhero games, both Champions and SAS. I haven't returned to it for Mutants and Masterminds, but might at any time...
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Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:01 pm

Nice job, Rubber Baron.

My only reason for inserting the DC Comics cities "as is" is that it just makes it much easier to handle the oddities of them. Superman in New York is just not going to work without running down every relationship to every hero while also explaining why none of them ever go after Lex Luthor when he blows up the place. Plus, the destruction of Los Angeles is something that you think the West Coast Avengers might have noticed.

The only choice I disagree with is ironically Gotham, which I always make into Chicago, especially because of Batman Begins

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Post by Bladewind » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:16 pm

I'm loving this.

Two great sources for inspiration:

1: Superman/ Batman: Generations (if you're going for the heroes age scenario)

2: Write Ups. Org has ideas for meshing Marvel heroes into DC. I especially like the Superman/ Fantastic Four origin.[/url]

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Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:39 pm

As a note, I'm explicitly NOT going with heroes aging or generational superheroes. Heroes have aged somewhat but Bruce Wayne is still Batman and Clark Kent is still Superman.

Otherwise, really you end up with something like Freedom City or Spidergirl more than what's currently recognizable as the Marvel Universe and DCU.

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Post by Bladewind » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:52 pm

Fair enough.

Keep em coming though !

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Post by Charles Phipps » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:39 pm

In honor of the movies who just DON'T GET IT....

The Incredible Hulk

HULK SMASH!
-Hulk

"an outgrowth of David Banner. [His] primitive emotions run wild. It isn't a killer, because David is not a killer."
-Elaina, The Incredible Hulk TV series

Bruce Banner is a man that has constantly struggled against the monster within himself. The monster has constantly struggled with the man that is inside him. The two exist in an uneasy equilibrium that is constantly swinging back and forth. People afraid of the Hulk's incredible physical strength and the apparent fury that he possesses are unwilling to trust him. People who attempt to trust the Hulk are constantly disappointed by the revulsion that Bruce Banner displays towards his alter ego. As such, the Incredible Hulk is always alone and never able to find happiness for very long.

Before we can discuss Bruce Banner and his activities as the Hulk, we must address the 800 pound elephant in the room. Does the Hulk kill? Is the Hulk a menace? It seems impossible to believe that the Hulk hasn't killed anyone in the rampages that so frequently leave many towns and city blocks devastated. It seems ridiculous that, in all this time, he's never accidentally taken a human life. If he does though, how can he be called a hero at all? Well the issue is more complicated than the Hulks defenders and detractors won't to admit.

There are in fact, MANY causalties from the Hulk's rampages. However, these are not the HULK'S causalties. When the Abomination battles the Hulk, he cares nothing for the many people caught up in the battlefield. Thus, the papers are filled with dozens of dead that people erroneously assume is the Hulk's doing rather than the villains he fights (who would cause more damage if not stopped). Like Optimus Prime battling Megatron in the Transformers movie, he tries to make an effort to pull back his punches but he's facing an enemy that has no such scruples. This doesn't, of course, count the times he's been deliberately mind controlled or influenced by gamma radiation either. One might do better to place the blame for such on the supervillains where it belongs, however.

This isn't to confuse the Incredible Hulk with a pacifist. The difference between Bruce Banner and the Incredible Hulk is that the later is a warrior. The Incredible Hulk has killed hundreds over the course of his career. Skrull Warriors, Rockmen from Venus, monsters that hail from other dimensions that Doctor Strange has summoned the Hulk to battle, and creatures like the Brood. When the Hulk is dominate, he is a bloody green handed warrior. What is ironic is the confusion of being a warrior with a monster. Like Marv from Sin City or Conan, having a primitive mindset does not necessitate one is a creature totally without scruples. They're just the scruples of a being without the veneer of civilization.

In truth, the Incredible Hulk has perhaps shown a remarkable degree of patience with the world that fears and mistrusts him. He has no objections to destroying property of those who annoy him but taking a life of an innocent is something that he is capable of pulling his punches with. This is why beings like Superman and Wonder Woman balk at bringing the man in. They are able to understand the humanity that The Incredible Hulk has is far deeper than Solomon Grundy (who they also try to show the same forgiveness but fail to remember---Bruce Banner was always a good man while Solomon Grundy was a murderous gangster).

And Bruce himself?

Bruce Banner is one of the kindest, nicest, and most noble human beings you've ever met. One should never become so enamoured of the Hulk that one forgets that Bruce Banner disappears for as long as the Hulk is dominant. Attempts to portray Bruce as a wimp fail to realize how much personal strength of character and courage it takes to keep the Hulk's personality down for as long as he does.

Of course, Bruce is the Hulk or more precisely a PART of Bruce is the Hulk. That dormant Viking or the guy who wants to hurl a car of someone who cuts you off in traffic into the Sun. Bruce holds back the Hulk from doing anything permanent to most people. However, he can't live with the fact that the Hulk is a killer and a warrior while he is a scientist and a man of civilization. In the end, despite his attempts, it's better to be honest that he will never be able to reconcile these two qualities and the only women who were able to love both sides of him have all died.

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