The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

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dirkgentry2000
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Post by dirkgentry2000 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:19 am

dirkgentry2000 wrote:
Don't know if you've been following Secret Six - but Bane is the latest member (well - if he survives last issue) - - -which kind of begs the question of what the Secret Six are doing in the merged 'verse.

Running very quickly away from the forces of Registration I suspect....
or maybe working for the Thunderbolts...

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Post by RomLoneWolf23 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:40 pm

Steve Mitchell wrote:Please forgive my Galactus obsession, but. . .

Does your cosmology mean that Galactus is the last survivor of the Third World?
Somehow, I imagine this would please Jack Kirby.
-Exit the LoneWolf

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Post by RomLoneWolf23 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:46 pm

I recognize that my last idea thread wasn't top-notch material, and I've given the matter some thought. So here's something different.

The Legacy of the Third Reich
The rise of the Justice Society of America and the Invaders was seen by Nazi leaders as a threat to the dominance of the Axis powers. In response to this, Hitler commissioned the SS to form a new, elite group of super-soldiers to bring victory to the Third Reich. This group was simply called Die Ubersoldaten.

This group had a variable membership, composed of volonteers for nearly every Enhancement program Nazi scientists could imagine: attempts at replicating the Super-Soldier serum, radiation treatments, experimental super-weaponry; Thule Society occultists even experimented with various magical enhancements. The failures greatly outnumbered the successes, but it did result in a few notable Nazi Supers: Master Man and Warrior Woman, the Red Panzer, Baron Blitzkrieg, Baron Blood, Captain Nazi and Baron Zemo. These various Supers were placed under the command of Hitler's most trusted agent, the Red Skull.

Calling them a team would be somewhat inaccurate; The Reich's needs forced Command to scatter them as needed: the Ubersoldaten were generally assigned individually to different units, either in command or as support, and sent to perform various missions for the Reich.

The Ubersoldaten were broken up at the end of World War II, with many, such as Warrior Woman and Captain Nazi, placed in cryogenic suspension in preperation for a resurrection of the Third Reich years later. Baron Zemo and other Nazi scientists fled to South America, while the Red Skull appeared to have been lost in a final battle with Captain America. For many years, Nazi Germany's Super-soldiers remained little more then a chapter in the history books.

Over time, those various Nazi supers were brought back by different circumstances: Captain Nazi was awakened from cryo-stasis by his brother and grand-niece; the Red Panzer armor was passed on from one neo-nazi to the next; And most troubling, the Red Skull was revealed to be alive and well, and once again active.

Fortunetly for the world, clashing personalities and divergent goals have kept the former Ubersoldaten from cooperating in any meaningful ways; Red Skull considers Captain Nazi little more then a useful pawn, while the latter will not forgive Red Skull for turning his back on Nazi traditions. Recent events haven't changed this: Captain Nazi is now fully focused on his new team of Neo-Nazis, the Fourth Reich, while the Red Skull is currently trapped inside a robotic body designed by Armin Zola.
-Exit the LoneWolf

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Post by Psistrike » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:22 pm

Those details about Bane are what make him such a scary individual to deal with. And also why that stupid movie version of him didn't work, just turning the character into a pumped up thug and henchman.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:50 pm

dirkgentry2000 wrote:
Don't know if you've been following Secret Six - but Bane is the latest member (well - if he survives last issue) - - -which kind of begs the question of what the Secret Six are doing in the merged 'verse.

Running very quickly away from the forces of Registration I suspect....
Good question.

And yes, I love seeing more of Bane. I enjoy how he could easily lead the team yet is just enjoying screwing with Lawton and Catman.
Psistrike wrote:Those details about Bane are what make him such a scary individual to deal with. And also why that stupid movie version of him didn't work, just turning the character into a pumped up thug and henchman.
Yes, very much so. Sadly, he's rarely treated as good in the comics either.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:11 pm

The Secret Six

The Secret Six are, in their current incarnation, a group of mercenaries of hire. Nothing more, nothing less. The organization exists to make money by performing the crimes and activities that pay the best. Of course, given that one of their number is a Gotham multimillionaire and another is one of the most well-paid assassins in the world; the organization actually doesn't NEED to work for money. In a way, that's honestly just how to keep score and justify the fact that the organization exists solely to amuse its members need to be the best.

Instead, the Secret Six is a group of individuals who enjoy being labeled super villains and all the trappings of being feared as powerful forces of the Underworld. In fact, its questionable for some of them whether this label really fits but the Secret Six has been a benefit for most of them. They've had a fairly unbroken series of successes and managed to survive against Alex Luthor's Secret Society of Supervillains. That's earned its members a lot of rep in a business that thrives on image above everything.

Much like Flash's Rogues, the Secret Six are not a hardcore bunch of psychopaths. Deadshot is a borderline sociopath who will kill anyone if the price is right, though he's been softening in later years. Chesire WAS a full blown psychopath and that's partially why she's off the team. Apokolips dwellers like Para-Demon and Knockout would not understand the concept of morality unless you explained it to them. Ragdoll WISHES he was a psychopath but just doesn't match it and it depends on the day of the week for the Mad Hatter....

Okay, really, it all boils down to Catman and perhaps Bane.

Catman himself is a murderer and a man who rightly believes he's damned for his sins (mostly eco-terrorism). However, he still is mostly in the business of supervillainy for the kicks that it provides. As such, Catman is devoted to trying to minimize the casualties produced by his team or guarantee that they're all 'bad guys.' Bizarrely, most of the team is actually willing to go along with this code of ethics. Lawton doesn't mind being an anti-hero since it pays about as much as being a villain and new member Bane is intensely moral in his own warped way. Scandal has never known good or evil but prefers Catman's way of doing business.

As such, the Secret Six has largely been left alone by the majority of super heroes who have bigger issues to deal with than a bunch of costumed super criminals. Oddly, they're more likely to face fellow super villains than they are super heroes. Even more strangely, they're more likely to employ lethal force against their fellow super criminals. This is another element of Catman's influence.

The Hood has attempted on a few occasions to recruit the Secret Six into his organization and so has Norman Osbourne. Ultimately, they rejected both and Catman delivered Norman Osbourne's son Harry back in a half-dead state when that man tried to have him assassinated. Thus, Norman intends to kill them for this affront. Unfortunately, the Secret Six more or less kicked the Thunderbolts behinds when he sent them against the largely un-powered Six.

Norman Osbourne seems to have trouble taking a hint. The Hood, advised by a being infinitely more charismatic and intelligent than him, did not take offense. Instead, he realized he could have the Secret Six's services pretty much as he desired for a reasonable price and is now one of their most steady employers.

Recently, Songbird has been seen in the company of the Secret Six and some have suspected that she might end up joining them. A few have also noted that Baron Zemo II hasn't been seen in a while and employing such a group as this is exactly his style.

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Post by dirkgentry2000 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:32 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:The Secret Six

.
Nice work and thanks for taking my request. :)
I'd suggest that the Secret Six has a very Marvel "feel" (or maybe it just seems that way because it reminds me of the early years of the Thunderbolts...) - and it's easy to see a lot of those company's characters in that group. Batroc the Leaper seems like a natural - he's quirky enough, has a personal code of honor and stubbornly straddles the line between hero and villain. By the same token, both Wolverine and the Grey Hulk (aka Mr Fixit) wouldn't see out of place. Neither would any member of the Wrecking Crew. Or the Lizard. Or the Rhino. Or - heck - most of Spiderman's Rogue's Gallery. Mysterio in particular seems like a fun addition.

MODOK (who would only be a temporary member during a period when he'd been driven out of AIM and was simply manipulating the team to help him regain control ) could fit the same niche as Mad Hatter and Ragdoll - disturbing comic relief.

Stretching into the unlikely but plausible camp - Mark Spector is crazy enough to justify Moon Knight doing a stint in the Six, if it suited his purpose. It's easy to see him hanging out with Blake and Lawton.

Regarding Blake, as Cheshire pointed out (and Huntress seems to have reached the same conclusion) - at his core, Catman (the sometimes defacto leader - although Scandal would take issue with that) wants (or used to want - he's gotten a bit darker lately) to be seen as honorable and wants the respect of those heroes he considers honorable.

So, during the timeframe of the Civil War and the Dark Reign - - the Secret Six could serve as an uncomfortable ally to the heroes on the run against the law. (After all, they risked a lot during the Infinite Crisis to pass information to Green Arrow without any gain for themselves other than doing the right thing - well - and screwing Alexander Luthor.)

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Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:10 pm

The Red Skull

Johann Schmidt is widely ranked by many as the most evil human being on Earth-777, with the Joker largely viewed as the only human being who might conceivably outrank him. In truth, these two actually hate one another and would gladly see the other destroyed (The Joker being a force of Chaos and Schmidt only desiring to destroy anything that resembles Freedom). You cannot find any more nihilistic and murderous a being in the universe save perhaps Darkseid himself.

A bellhop that was adopted as little more than Adolf Hitler's valet as a way to demonstrate that great soldiers were molded, not born, Johan Schmidt was already a hateful and frustrated criminal mind that wanted more out of life. The stereotypical SS officer in the making, Johan absorbed everything that Hitler had to say about how to manipulate people from behind the scenes.

Adolf learned to like his glorified gofer and promoted him repeatedly until he was a SS- Oberstgruppenführer (equivalent to a General in the regular armed forces and a Colonel in the SS). Schmidt was disliked by everyone in the Waffen-SS and barely tolerated by Heidrich Himmler who much preferred his immediate peer in Baron Wolfgang Von Strucker. Johan made up for this by adopting the larger than life persona of the Red Skull. The Red Skull was used as a scare tactic to demoralize enemy forces. Johan eventually took over the little regarded "Sabotage" Division that arranged things like the murder of Doctor Erkskine and the blowing up of bridges.

Johann Schmidt became the "public demon" of the Third Reich. His crimes, honestly, paled before the Final Solution but atrocities and murders galore were attributed to him in order to make the Allies more interested in surrendering to him lest Hitler "unleash" Rotter Totenkoph. Johan knew of the Nazi death camps but his reaction says as much about his character as you need to know. "A waste of resources. They should be kept as slave labor."

Schmidt was eventually buried alive and kept alive solely through a gas that preserved his body perfectly. Unlike most of the Nazi war criminals who survived into the modern era, Johann Schmidt has adapted fairly well. This is almost undoubtedly due to the fact that the Red Skull, embodiment of National Socialist fears as he is, isn't really all that good of Nazi.

Oh, certainly, he's a racist and sexist scumbag that adores decorating his house in Third Reich paraphernalia but Johann would have just been as happy to serve Joseph Stalin as he would have served Adolf Hitler. The Red Skull believes in a two party system; the Master and the Slaves. Really, he's dealt with enough whites to know they are just as ignorant as the people Hitler despised (and Johann hates all people who are not as superior as him). His preference for Caucasians of German descent to work with is mostly just old habit at this point.

Ultimately, Schmidt's reputation as having the morality of a serial killer (which is fairly accurate) tends to impede his ability to work with other super villains. Doctor Doom has murdered at least three Red Skull doubles by this point, Magneto buried the Red Skull alive, and even the Kingpin refuses to work for him despite being a murderer of whole families.

The Jewish Wizard said it best when asked to apologize to the Red Skull. "You'll see yourself welcomed into Heaven before I speak those words!" Even weaklings like the Wizard tend to find courage in the face of his obvious evil. The exceptions to this are figures like Captain Nazi who Schmidt realizes has absolutely no direction unless someone orders him around, the Mandarin who cares nothing for a "European War", and Ra's Al Ghul who finds the Red Skull distasteful but who eliminates large numbers of excessive human beings.

Johann does have one advantage and that's the fact that he pays exceptionally well and he has an extremely charismatic personality if you have an already unbalanced mind. He controls a branch of A.I.M, a Hydra off-shoot almost as large as Baron Von Strucker's own holding, and is quite probably one of the secret financiers behind H.I.V.E. Slade Wilson doesn't talk about it but he's done several missions for the Red Skull. Unlike many of his super villain employers, the Red Skull's checks don't bounce (especially since he took over Roxxon oil by taking over the body of the Russian company Kronos' President).
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by MightyDavidson » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:26 pm

Aren't guys like the Red Skull a large part of the reason Ra's al Ghul wants to wipe out large portions of humanity in the first place?

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Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:32 pm

MightyDavidson wrote:Aren't guys like the Red Skull a large part of the reason Ra's al Ghul wants to wipe out large portions of humanity in the first place?
Yes, I had to debate whether or not Ra's Al Ghul's innate honor and desire to annihilate people like Schmidt would overcome his practicality. Personally, I can imagine one team up before Ra's tries to chop off his head with a scimitar.

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Post by MightyDavidson » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:50 pm

Charles Phipps wrote:
MightyDavidson wrote:Aren't guys like the Red Skull a large part of the reason Ra's al Ghul wants to wipe out large portions of humanity in the first place?
Yes, I had to debate whether or not Ra's Al Ghul's innate honor and desire to annihilate people like Schmidt would overcome his practicality. Personally, I can imagine one team up before Ra's tries to chop off his head with a scimitar.
Considering Skull's reputation, I'd think it would be inherently impractical to team with him. R'as does have standards after all.

In my opinion the offer of a team up would only be a ruse to get Skull out into the open so that one of the League of Assassins could take him out.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:54 pm

RomLoneWolf23 wrote:I recognize that my last idea thread wasn't top-notch material, and I've given the matter some thought. So here's something different.
Thanks, it inspired my Red Skull write-up.

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Post by Libra » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:29 pm

Most excellent work, from all parties. :D
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Post by Charles Phipps » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:10 am

The Future of Earth-777

There have been numerous time travel escapades in Earth-777 and they have provided a fairly grim look into the nature of the future. Reed Richards maintains the future may yet be altered but others aren't so certain and believe that it may be impossible to avoid certain events in the future. Rip Hunter, for example, is a firm believer in humanity's temporal causality. Something which has resulted in Reed and he having actually come to blows over (about the only time Reed Richards has ever gotten into a heated fight; something his wife still jokes with him about).

The Great Social Collapse: Sometime in the 2040s, the United States' relationship with Mutants will hit an all-time low and they will finally deploy Sentinels to handle the social unrest of them. Unfortunately, this event results in a coup de'tat by the machines that proceeded to exterminate several million citizens for possessing the "mutant gene."

The event destroys United States credibility across the world and its economic status, already in decline, before Excalibur (time traveling) helps overthrow the Sentinels rule. The event is a seminal one in the country as it effectively ends mutant prejudice. The result being so horrible that groups like the Friends of Humanity are banned outright and any of their paraphenalia.

Not all of the United States is placed under Sentinel rule, however. Gotham City manages to survive the collapse, an elderly Batman briefly fighting Superman to establish its independence before the Mutant Genocide. The older Bruce later recruits a new Batman in a technological suit to continue the protection of the city. Likewise, Metropolis and much of New England remains free with New York treated as something of a border between the areas protected by the Justice League vs. Sentinel controlled territory.

Superman's inability to defeat the Sentinel threat by himself remains one of his greatest failures. Still, the heroes rescued countless mutants and delivered them to Free Zones like Las Vegas and the West Coast that would become havens in the future.

2099 to 2199: Roughly forty years later, the United States is under the control of a string of multinational cartels. Stark-Fujikawa, Wayne Enterprises, and a few others remain relatively benign in their rule but democracy has effectively died with much of the world being in just as bad a shape. An unlikely salvation comes in the form of Doctor Victor Von Doom, or possibly a time lost adult Kristoff, who proceeds to conquer most of Europe and the United States before restoring civil order.

The Doctor Doom of this time acts with uncharacteristic benevolence. His actions are moderate, tolerant, and filled with compassion for everything from mutants to the impoverished. Unlike previous world domination attempts, he does not grow bored with it and after a failed invasion of the world by Atlantis, helps reconstruct the world. This version of Doctor Doom allows himself to be killed by his own younger self, taunting him with his inadequacies as he remains alive solely through life support.

The Thirtieth Century: Incorporating Technoarchy technology into humanity's environmental controls and working from Doctor Doom's designs, humanity repairs the environment and ceases to rely on non-renewable resources. It colonizes other planets through rapid change inducing nanotechnology unsteadily for the better part of eight centuries. Life becomes boring for most citizens but otherwise peaceful.

Mutation 'peters out' in a way that Charles Xavier or Magneto never would have suspected with baseline humans becoming a seperate race co-existing peacefully (and indefinitely) alongside powered variants of humanity on many worlds.

The Legion of Superheroes represents the best this time has to offer. The worst comes from individuals like Kang the Conqueror, with at least one variant coming from this century. Speculation that he is a Richards or a relation to Doctor Doom are both accurate, the two bloodlines having merged by this time.

The Dawn of Apocalypse: Roughly 1,000 years after the Legion of Superheroes; Earth falls under the sway of a charismatic religious cult devoted to eugenics. Most of humanity's non-powered population, a minority by this time since even regular humans are as strong as Captain America, is deported or experimented upon. Apocalypse assumes the position of ruler of the planet, despite the fact he's largely just a figurehead for his own ruthlessly ambitious supporters in a surprising turn of events. Cybernetically enhanced super soldiers wage guerilla wars against one another across the planet. Ultimately, Apocalypse is victorious in this brutal war but is ultimately defeated through means unknown.

Some suggest that the means for this are a imprisoned alien breaking free from his laboratory and proceeding to take Apocalypse into the Sun itself where he was then rejuvenated.

Earth's various colonies lose contact with the home world during this period.

853rd-century: Humanity is the predominate power in the galaxy with its current state having increased through medical technology and the inbreeding with Superman's myriad descendants that many wield power equivalent to a Daxamite. The "Pink Kree" have since joined with humanity and interbred with them by this time that they are effectively no-longer considered a variant race.

"Justice Legions" are accompanied by a number of X-Avenger groups that protect the genetically different on other worlds while fighting crime. It is a strange century but almost all super villains have since been defeated and no force in the galaxy can defeat them. Superman has even developed a way for Galactus to symbiotically feed on the M'Kran crystal that prevents him from needing to slay planets anymore.
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Libra » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:15 am

Most excellent work Charles. :D
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