The Combined DCU-Marvel Universe thread

Discuss Freedom City, Paragons, Wild Cards, or your own campaign settings here.
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Psistrike
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Post by Psistrike » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:26 pm

Great work all around, everyone. Can't wait to see what else everyone who post stuff in this thread come up with.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:20 am

I plan to do Supergirl, Earth Angel (Supergirl 2), and probably talk a little about a most underused resource in comics vs. Hell.

Heaven!

:-)

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Post by Libra » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:36 am

pssssst, Don't forget DC! :wink:
Great work all around, everyone. Can't wait to see what else everyone who post stuff in this thread come up with.
Thank you. :D

I honestly not sure what I'll do next on this thread - I'm more than a little intimidated by working in such a universe, but if there are any articles you would like me to try my hand at, I'm listening and willing to at least give it a try. :D

(Otherwise I'll post only if inspiration strikes, as it did with my little musings on Dr Sivana.)
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Post by dirkgentry2000 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:15 am

Charles Phipps wrote:I plan to do Supergirl, Earth Angel (Supergirl 2), and probably talk a little about a most underused resource in comics vs. Hell.

Heaven!

:-)

It ain't fluffy clouds in the Marvel Universe, SO SAYS THE SPECTRE!
will we be seeing Zauriel?

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Post by Ecalsneerg » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:23 am

Since we're talking about Heaven and Hell, do you see Constantine as being part of the setting here, or as he seems to have been for most of the time since Hellblazer started, and in his own separate 'verse?

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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:29 am

Complicated as Vertigo may be.

I consider Sandman and most of Hellblazer to be part of the DCU. However, I consider Lucifer and parts of Hellblazer to be non-canon (such as the First of the Fallen and the fact God is now a little girl).

There is a John Constantine in the DCU-MU, he's just a bit more like the one in Swamp Thing.

Sort of like the Punisher from MAX is the same as the one in War Journal but slightly different.

And yes, we'll be seeing Zauriel.

Again, we'll be stealing a bit from my HED! write-ups but those seem to be working fine.

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Post by Libra » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:37 am

Indeed. :D

(I actually quite like Gaiman's conceptualisation of Lucifer myself, I just hate the fact that he made the Avatar of Pride surrender his aeons-long resistence to The Lord and go on adventures on the surface. It seems out of character. Don't even get me started on Preacher. . .)
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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:49 am

Heaven in the Combined Universe

At the heart of the Cosmos is The Presence. Calling the Presence God is as good a shorthand as anything else. He's not quite the figure that's spoken of in the Book of Abraham, Qur'an, or in Catholic Dogma but he's close enough to pass muster for many of the universe's citizens to understand him. The Presence is the same entity as The Source, simply a different manifestation, and is the creator of the Multiverse. The Presence is worshiped on only a few other worlds with the Kryptonian Rao being one of the few cases where a society did not worship their own local gods but the universe's creator.

The Presence is the entity that sent the Source wave throughout the cosmos and created all the various gods throughout the Multiverse as well as setting forth evolution on its course. Otherwise, it's a fairly hands-off entity. When the Presence operates, it tends to do so through cosmic entities like The Living Tribunal or The Spectre. Only a few entities are priviledged enough to have an audience with the Presence and never regularly. Oddly, Reed Richards was honored with a visit when he attempted to recover the soul of Ben Grimm.

The Presence doesn't inhabit Heaven, or what is commonly termed to be the Silver City. The Presence inhabits all corners of the Multiverse and is everywhere. Even the entity Eternity is a limited measure of its existence. However, the Silver City is routinely associated with the Presence presence due to the holiness of its inhabitants and their special link with his will. A similiar relationship exists between the Source and the inhabitants of New Genesis.

The Silver City is inhabited by the Messengers a.k.a Angels, who are divided into four hosts (Eagle, Human, Bull and Lion). In general, the Messengers are not quite as formidable as humans are lead to believe. The average Messenger is roughly as powerful as a Kryptonian and possess true immortality (because they are made of spirit, death on the physical world simply sends them back to the Silver City). Entities like Lucifer, The Spectre, Eclipso, and so on are technically angels but possessed of powers that utterly dwarf such entities.

Beings like the Guardians of the Universe are aware of the Presence as a literal entity but do not show it much reverence. Humanity's devotion to the Presence is a bit like worshiping gravity or the state government. It is difficult for cosmic entities to be reverent towards something that they know to be factually existent. Even so, many are confused by the Presence's peculiar fondness for the planet Earth. Manifestations of it on the planet have been confirmed and many believe this might herald some important destiny for humanity.

Most souls in the cosmos do not go to the Silver City. Instead, they either go to the Dreamlands of Morpheus, where they experience the afterlife that they believed in or they are consigned to Hell. Monotheists and certain important souls are allowed a special dispensation. This results in the transformation of their soul and some suspect that certain Messengers are in-fact former human beings (perhaps explaining why some the majority of such a drastically different power level than others).

The Messengers are apparently less active than demons in attempting to forward Law and Goodness throughout the cosmos. This is both true and misleading. Messengers have a standing policy not to interfere with mortal free-will. Their influence is mostly through intangible promotion of good ideas and enforcing rules on various demonic entities. Even so, even they cannot necessarily prevent entities like Neron or Trigon from influencing the mortal world. No one is quite sure why this is and it has lead to two rebellions in Heaven (the first being by Lucifer and the second by the infinitely less capable Asmodel).
Last edited by Charles Phipps on Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:51 am

Libra wrote:Indeed. :D

(I actually quite like Gaiman's conceptualisation of Lucifer myself, I just hate the fact that he made the Avatar of Pride surrender his aeons-long resistence to The Lord and go on adventures on the surface. It seems out of character. Don't even get me started on Preacher. . .)
In fact, that's canon in my DCU game.

The idea is that Lucifer decided to Rebel against being the Lord of Hell simply as a way to try and spite God further.

It also lead to a bunch of fun jockeying amongst Demons for the crown.

In the combined universe, Lucifer is still a piano player.

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Post by Libra » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:13 am

Ah well, just so long as no-one mistakes him for a friend of Mankind.

I must say I like your take on the Celestial in Universe-777 Charles. I will suggest though that a major part of the reason the Heavenly Host don't intervene more on the Prime Material is that they're so powerful they'd wreck the place if they did so in numbers or without going through limiting channels.

It's a little like the Cold War on steroids: Neither Heaven nor Hell really want to see the Prime Material destroyed in their battle. Not to mention the fact that Heaven can probably squash Hell like a big if they really wanted to, but that's something not a lot of Hellspawn care to contemplate. . .
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Post by Sidious » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:25 am

I must admit curiosity as to how you'll handle all the various minutia of the 2 universes.

Elder Demons, Lords of Order, Lords of Chaos, Hosts of Heaven & Hell, and their various agents & pawns. And then beings like the Celestials.

I'd kill to see that flow chart.
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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:46 pm

Libra wrote:Ah well, just so long as no-one mistakes him for a friend of Mankind.

I must say I like your take on the Celestial in Universe-777 Charles. I will suggest though that a major part of the reason the Heavenly Host don't intervene more on the Prime Material is that they're so powerful they'd wreck the place if they did so in numbers or without going through limiting channels.

It's a little like the Cold War on steroids: Neither Heaven nor Hell really want to see the Prime Material destroyed in their battle. Not to mention the fact that Heaven can probably squash Hell like a big if they really wanted to, but that's something not a lot of Hellspawn care to contemplate. . .
My opinion is that, without the Presence, Heaven and Hell are pretty equal to one another. Lucifer wielded power even greater than one of the Endless and only a few beings approach him in power. Without Lucifer, the title of the King of Hell belongs to lesser beings but it's a MAD situation between the Silver City and Hell.

There's a "What if" comic where Inferno is lost by the X-men. The Living Tribunal then appears after Belasco has taken over the entirety of Earth and made it identical to Hell. The Living Tribunal decrees that the Earth will be destroyed in X days time to prevent Hell from spreading further.

That's sort of how I see the situation.

So, if Trigon ever permanently took over the Earth, he'd probably then pull it into his dimension and claim all the souls therein rather than risk war with Heaven/Hell.

But, being demons, they're always pushing the line between all out war and not.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:05 pm

Sidious wrote:I must admit curiosity as to how you'll handle all the various minutia of the 2 universes.

Elder Demons, Lords of Order, Lords of Chaos, Hosts of Heaven & Hell, and their various agents & pawns. And then beings like the Celestials.

I'd kill to see that flow chart.
Here's a short view of it. Libra, how about you do a full write-up?

Tier Zero

The Presence/The Source- The Creator of the Multiverse. Theoretically omnipotent and omniscient. Works in mysterious ways and exists at all layers of reality.

I

Tier One

Lucifer- Firstborn entity in the cosmos. Former ruler of Hell.

The Living Tribunal - Judge of all Cosmic Affairs in the Multiverse. If you want to get Biblical, possibly the Kirby-esque version of Metatron.

Michael - Secondborn, Daily leader of Heavenly affairs.

The Endless - Multiversal Embodiments of Principles in the universe. Destiny is the only one who can match the above beings. The rest are all Tier 2.

Infinity Gauntlet: Whoever so wields this object...

I

Tier Two

Eternity - One of the many incarnations of the Universe.

Galactus - The embodiment of Hunger in the Multiverse.

Neron - The Ruler of Hell after Lucifer.

Mesphito - No, *I* am ruler of Hell.

Trigon - The Great Beast disagrees with you both.

Chthon - The Lord of the Elder Gods shall consume you all.

The Spectre: Not bound by a human host, with he's moved to Tier Three.

Celestials: Each is as powerful as Galactus and yet, no one wants to fight him either. He's not that much more powerful than them, it's just he's the toughtest guy on the block.

I

Tier Three

Odin, Zeus, and Other Pantheon Heads: Don't mess with us.

Darkseid: Or me.

High Father: neener neener Darkseid.

Beyonder: I HAVE HASSLEHOFF HAIR!

The Gamemaster, the Stranger, Etc.: We're Star Trek entities.

The Phantom Stranger: One of the stronger angelic entities but Fallen from Grace.

The Archangels: Asmodel and the other Host heads.

Monitors and Watchers: Amongst the strongest of all Ascended Mortal Races.

I

Tier Four

Other Sorts of Gods: Hercules, Thor, Ares, Orion, Loki, etc.

The Lords of Order and Lords of Chaos: Not actual gods but humans wielding power equivalent to them.

Guardians of the Universe, Controllers, etc: Ascended entities that wield power equal to the gods. The Fallanti and other entities Doctor Strange calls upon for power are here.

The Dread Dormarru: Actually Tier 3 at the height of his power.

Angels and Demons: Tough guys, some of these are even lower but Etrigan can kick some serious booty and make you look all sooty.

I

Tier Five

Mortal Mystics: Who may wield higher power depending on how much is "lent" them.

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Post by dirkgentry2000 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:06 pm

Sidious wrote:I must admit curiosity as to how you'll handle all the various minutia of the 2 universes.

Elder Demons, Lords of Order, Lords of Chaos, Hosts of Heaven & Hell, and their various agents & pawns. And then beings like the Celestials.

I'd kill to see that flow chart.
I've occasionally played with the concept that Nabu/the Lords of Order would decide that just one agent in the mortal realm was not sufficient to represent their interest and would create a Legion of Order - consisting of multiple Dr. Fate like operatives fighting the various forces of Chaos in the DCU. Sort of like a mystical Green Lantern Corps that filled the same niche as the Shadowpact.

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Post by Charles Phipps » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:09 pm

dirkgentry2000 wrote:
I've occasionally played with the concept that Nabu/the Lords of Order would decide that just one agent in the mortal realm was not sufficient to represent their interest and would create a Legion of Order - consisting of multiple Dr. Fate like operatives fighting the various forces of Chaos in the DCU. Sort of like a mystical Green Lantern Corps that filled the same niche as the Shadowpact.
In my DCU games, after Shazam's death, the Helmet of Doctor Fate and the role of "Protector of the Multiverse" fell to Billy Batson who became Doctor Shazam.

Linda Danvers and one of the PCs (Lucien Drake the Half-Demon) were part of his equivalent to the Defenders.

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