Halt Evil Doer! megaverse thread

[Charles Phipps]

So, back on the subject of Sentai, I'm watching the latest series subbed on youtube (Shinkenger), and they have introduced a pretty novel concept:

The zords (which look like Bakugan to me, I can't be the only one to notice it) are usually the size of tiny baubles, and are grown to giant robot size to fight the giant monsters. Now, how close would the Prisim Warriors be to having that sort of tech for their robots?

There's two sources for the Prismatic Warrior's abilities.

The first are the good people at Raven Enterprises/Ishikawa Corp. They produce the most advanced mecha on the planet, though not necessarily the most heavily armed (SpartaCorp. tends to produce the mass produced "Mook" Mecha found in most nations while RavenCorp would tend to produce Gundams). These are kept in special facilities around Japan and can be transported almost instantly to wherever is needed by special bullet trains and jets or even mass drivers.

The second are the magically enhanced versions of their items. These are gifts from the Kami of Japan and have been occasionally bestowed upon them for special missions where they must fight in various divine tournaments or against entities like the Entropic Masters. These gifts are usually bequeathed to veteran members in the form of talismens that can't be used until the time is necessary for their arrival. Orkus was, for example, taken aback when a bunch of magically enhanced gigantic merging robots assaulted his forces during the invasion. Several of the old teams teaming up.

Sadly these machines are draining to the power of even the gods and can only be used on special occasions.

[Charles Phipps]

I hope that's understandable.

Quite, quite - I'm just glad that you didn't find my suggestion reprehensible.

Although wasn't Divinos away in Deep Space before the Invasion of the Psychotic 7?

No offense, Libra, but that's really a WOOSH moment for you.

[Libra]

Woosh? I though that was at least a !Gasp! moment.

I am British you know - I may be no Warren Ellis or Grant Morrison but I can still come up with the odd moment of potential controversy!

(Though thankfully I don't seem to be very good at it . . .).

[Charles Phipps]

Woosh? I though that was at least a !Gasp! moment.

I am British you know - I may be no Warren Ellis or Grant Morrison but I can still come up with the odd moment of potential controversy!

(Though thankfully I don't seem to be very good at it . . .).

But yes, in general, the Psychotic Seven were motivated by a number of factors.

1. The United States handling of foreign policy.

2. The United States handling of Metamen affairs.

3. The perceived public weakness of it regarding crime and punishment.

September 11th would really just have been the final straw in your model. While the P7 were not hostile to the USA, it's important to also note that most of them weren't US citizens and were also motivated by a sense of revenge/comeuppance.

Really, only Manhattan Project had a strong loyalty to the country.

[Libra]

Those were pretty much my thoughts exactly: 9/11 was simply the final straw - or to put it another way that was when the 7 scented blood in the water. . .

I hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm curious: How do you think Black Wing I & II would stack up against Raven I & II - where do you think they would differ and where do you think they would resemble each other?

I've a few ideas of my own but they're still rudimentary - I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts.

[Charles Phipps]

I'd love to hear your ideas.

My take on Raven I vs. Black Wing I is that George Timmons is significantly more bitter and unfriendly human being than Duncan Summers was. Having had his wife and child murdered by the mafia, he's motivated less by a sense of adventure than plain old vengeance. Like the Count of Monte Cristo, he's also capable of psychological cruelty that Duncan Summers would never have approved of (if we ever did an HED Silver Age supplement, you'd find that in lieu of prison time, he's also prone to doing things like destroying the fortunes of corrupt rich men or taking away what is most precious to them).

Duncan Summers now teaches children as a way to prepare the next generation of the future while George Timmons pretty much just sits around his Falconcrest Mansion with his faithful Butler and staff, mooning over his lost trophies and brooding like Batman. George can also hold a grudge like nobodies business since he and his son haven't spoken in over a decade except a few tersely worded conversations and the occasional Christmas card.

Raven II vs. Black Wing II are both significantly lighter than their parents. Black Wing II is an international playboy and inventor with all of Dick Grayson's zest for life (his romance history is a bit like Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne's percieved public image-except it's not really manufactured). He loves being a superhero and fighting for justice, without any real motivation to vengeance. The only person he bears revenge filled thoughts towards is Death Mask III for indirectly leading to the death of his mother.

Callie, on the other hand, is a bit more serious than Alex. Motivated by her mother's murder, she doesn't much care for his party lifestyle and finds his haphazard handling of his secret identity to irresponsible at times. Of course, she's also secretly envious of his ability to construct a new family with Dawn Wing.

[Libra]

Hmmm. . . that rather agrees with my thoughts on the matter; I recently decided that my mental image of the first Raven was essentially a cross between Indiana Jones and the O'Neil/Adams Batman in terms of style and (to a degree) personality.

It actually occurred to me that it might be interesting to do a few characterisations for the Liberty League and the First Freedom League, but that's a topic for another thread (An old one, but still a one which I plan to keep updating! ).

More tomorrow, if I get round to it.

[Charles Phipps]

Well if you have any more HED! questions, especially about the Tomorrow Society, please feel free to ask.

[Libra]

Okey-dokey, since you were kind enough to give me permission:

How did the Gene Nation and Tomorrow Society get started and who were their first members?

[Libra]

Here's what I have on George Timmons and Duncan Summers so far -

Basically the biggest difference between first Raven and Black Wing (I) boil down to this: For Duncan Summers becoming a costumed adventurer was the best way for him to serve Justice because while he'd acquired a great deal of unusual skills and knowledge while walking the Earth (pursuing his Uncle's 'Get Rich then Richer double-quick' schemes) the ability to tolerate the sheer numbing beauracracy involved with being an Law-Enforcement Agent wasn't one of them.

For George Timmons becoming a Dark Knight Detective wasn't the best option - it was the only one available if he wanted to become a force for Justice in Falconcrest.

While Duncan Summers could co-operate with, respect and even trust significant portions of the NYPD and the Freedom City coppers, Falconcrest Blues weren't so welcoming - if they'd gunned George down he could have counted himself lucky since what would have been done to him if he'd been captured defies all human decency


Another point of divergence: While George was effectively isolated in Falconcrest and proud enough of being self-sufficient in his own city to be somewhat reluctant to ask even his allies for help, Duncan would admit to being as he put it "More efficient without my friends from the Freedom League, but somewhat less succesful" often teaming up with his colleagues even when not on League business.

You see he saw the League at least in part as a new family (Yes, even Black Avenger. Don't all brothers from another mother bicker?) - and that would be another difference, I think.

I believe that George always felt that to allow another family to take the place of the one that had been taken from him would be a betrayal of his lost loved ones, Duncan eventually realised that while a new family would be taking the place of the loved ones he'd lost, they wouldn't be replacements - they'd be reinforcements, so to speak.


One last point: I believe that the relationship between Duncan Summers and Callie Summers has always been simpler than that of George Timmons and Alexander - not necessarily easier, but simpler - because Callie has always known that her Father loved her and vice versa; Alex sometimes hasn't been so sure since both he and his Father (His Real Father, not his mother's sperm donor) are too damn wrapped up in their Byronic Pride to say so out loud and proud.

Admittedly it does help that - allowing for differences imposed by age and sex - Callie and Duncan are effectively equals in achievements and capacity not to mention quite similar in mindset to boot.

George and Alex, to put it politely, aren't quite. Alex is a super-duper-ocassionally geeky science hero - George Timmons is the mortal shell of a Force for Justice in a cape and cowl.

(I would also be remiss in failing to mention that the Ravens have an appreciation for the absurdities involved with being a costumed adventurer and a trickster streak a mile wide which rather helps them when coping with the darker facets - most of the time, at least.)

Just a few thoughts - I hope they're not too wide of the mark.

[Charles Phipps]

Very notable, I'd love to see a similiar comparison of Callie and Alex. Personally, I really think you nailed the characters. Falconcrest City is kind of amazing when you think about it because, as BAD as it is, it is actually MUCH BETTER than it used to be when under the control of the previous administration.

George has at least moved it from being well on its way to become Gotham City post-Earthquake. There was a "Serial Killer Epidemic" in Falconcrest at one point....and it wasn't an exaggeration.

[Charles Phipps]

The Tomorrow Society is actually a legacy creation itself. The original Tomorrow Society is the Futuremen. The Futuremen were a creation of Doctor S, Doctor Alexander Byrne a.k.a Doctor Super. A precognitve, he was the first Black American superhero after the Kung Fu King and Eagle Eyed Hermes. Notably, Doctor Byrne was also a friend of Doctor Martin Luther King and managed to save Doctor King's life in HED, though he would die two years later. This, by the way, made the Civil Rights Movement marginally more successful.

Unfortunately, taking a bullet for Doctor King had tragic results for Doctor S and he was crippled. His precognitive abilities remained though and the 1980s brought about a sudden spike in the rise of Metamen worldwide. By the 1990s, he had created a important team that would fight for the cause of Metamen worldwide.

Against them, was the Army of Tomorrow, who was lead by the Polish Demigod Helios. A former enemy of Doctor Aeon, Helios' power had grown to the point he could bend light pretty much like a Green lantern ring and create light constructs when not creating solar explosions that rivaled atomic bombs. Both of them gave their lives stopping Ultramind from using a nanite plague to wipe out Metamen worldwide.

The fate of the Futuremen sadly is unknown even in HED! HED 2.0 says that gamemasters are free to come up with the "true" story themselves but simply put. Something happened that wiped out all trace of the Futuremen's deeds from public memory, even though people remember they existed and their names. No one can recall precisely what happened to them.

A couple of survivors did exist. Madame Tomorrow had been recruited by the Futuremen from the New Fighters for Freedom when they prevented the Order of the Eighth Seal from using her as one of their Anti-Christs (the other candidates had been her sister and Demon Rider the Son of Belial). With the assistance of Black Wing II, who she had loved for a long time, she proceeded to purchase the equipment necessary to ressurect the Futuremen. Demon Rider proved to be the first of the new recruits. Rather than trying to revive the Futurmen as is, she created the new team as a group that would try and educate more than just Metamen but all "gifted" beings worldwide.

The Gene Nation was created pretty much straight from the Army of Tomorrow. Cassius Mass taking over for Helios the Sun King and reorganizing it as a militant imperialist sect. Instead of being about random terrorist attacks on human society to force change, they would be a seperatist movement that would build their own society and conquer surrounding ones.

[Libra]

Okey-dokey, here's another query while I work out my views on Callie Summers vs Alex Timmons:

Might I ask what the Tomorrow Society's methods involve? They're mentioned as an Iron Age team, but what does that mean when you get down to it?

(I'm giving some thought as to how the Freedom League and the Tomorrow Society get along, since it's a ubject that hasn't been addressed - Yet. )

[Charles Phipps]

Okey-dokey, here's another query while I work out my views on Callie Summers vs Alex Timmons:

Might I ask what the Tomorrow Society's methods involve? They're mentioned as an Iron Age team, but what does that mean when you get down to it?

(I'm giving some thought as to how the Freedom League and the Tomorrow Society get along, since it's a ubject that hasn't been addressed - Yet. )

Black Wing II is a hero FROM the Iron Age, but he's not an Iron Age hero per say. The Tomorrow Society protects Metamen who haven't got control of their powers yet from law enforcement until they can master their ability, they fight evil Metamen, they attempt to identity and mentor new Metamen, they fight anti-Metamen groups, and they also occasionally go on adventures against Demons or Entropic Masters. Despite being primarily a Metaman group, they don't restrict themselves to mentoring Metamen and also attempt to do the same for magically talented or superpowered individuals of all sorts. They're considered outlaws by the US government, though a minimal amount of effort is paid to capturing them despite how much the press rails against "Metaman terrorist schools."

The team has a rotten reputation primarily because of the fact that Ultimatum caused massive amounts of property damage and injured numerous villains very seriously (mostly healed now thanks to Raven FoundationTM technology) when he was unable to control his powers. Causing the modern Ken Masterson no end of teenage guilt. There's also the fact that Demon Rider is the HED! version of Wolverine.

Demon Rider has never been a psychotic killer but he's always had a very Old Testament sense of justice. He's wanted for a very large number of murders. Most of these, of course, are of vampires and demons in human form. The humans he's killed are almost invariably humans who have sold their soul to demons or otherwise largely beyond redemption (he can tell when a human being has any ounce of goodness left or has become hollow). Otherwise, he'll just burn them with the pain of their victims and let them go. He'll also kill in self defense or the defense of his teammates, particularly Valkyrie and Madame Tomorrow.

Despite this, Demon Rider actually has a rather large amount of support from many circles in the public. He's been captured on numerous occasions by the Foundation and used as a mercenary against supernatural threats that they don't really understand. Like Nick Fury and Wolverine, he's considered an unacknowledged asset. Ironically, most people just believe he's a Metaman with a demonic flavor as opposed to a genuine monster.

Really, not even Divinos particularly wants to put Demon Rider behind bars. Though he's attempted to on several occasions. He's always been stopped by Athena and Merlin, who recognize the valuable service that he provides to the supernatural community by regulating the numbers of the undead. Vampires aren't innately evil in HED! but once they past a certain point, they effectively do lose their souls and become monsters.

Ymir and Valkyrie are a bit of a subversion as no one knows why such notable and beloved heroes hang around such an eclectic and bizarre bunch.

[Charles Phipps]

Looking forward to your post, Libra!