Mutants & Masterminds
HQ    ABOUT M&M    SUPER-VISION    GIMMICK'S GADGETS    M&M SUPERLINK    ATOMIC THINK TANK    M&M SHOP
Saving the world, one d20 roll at a time

Algernon Files Comments

The only place to discuss Super-Powered by M&M products.

Moderators: The Mod Squad, The Justice League, M&M Line Developer

Postby arcady » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:51 pm

Mind you, overall I liked the book, but there's no value in a review that does not point out the problem spots.

Aaron Sullivan wrote:
Gender imbalance also very prevalent - I'm used to more females in superhero works, modern comics strike an almost 50-50 ratio


Not altogether sure I agree with this. You'd have to show me some figures. Majority of the heroes AND villains from either Marvel or DC that come to my mind are male.
When I think modern supers, I think immediatly of Titans, X-Men, and so on.

Then I start thinking Rogue, Storm, Sage, Psylocke, Raven, Starfire, Wonder Girl, Emma Frost, and so on, along with Gambit, Wolverine, Cyclops, Bishop, Robin, Changeling, Impulse, Nightcrawler, and so on.

Who you remember from a team says a lot, and I find gender imbalances very common in gaming products across the board. For example, in the premiere D&D Kingdoms of Kalamar module 'Root of All Evil', there are several cases where all the women in a scene are unamed servants, daughters, and so on. There's a tavern where males who have no speaking parts or role in the plot beyond filling the room have names and backgrounds - but not one of the women in the room is even named. The only women named in the entire module in fact were two villains - one the main, one a conviving noble decieving her comrades.

That sort of thing is common in the hobby.

The gender imbalance in this book was not as severe as it could be, but was a 1 for 2 ratio - which I simply noted did not match my observation of current hot comic titles.

Aaron Sullivan wrote:
The rule variant to turn base defense into a dodge bonus (p. 39) sounds like a bad idea... Perhaps with a flaw. The writer notes how it could disrupt a game.


I'll have to look when I get home (as I don't have the book on me), but that isn't supposed to be read as base defense, but as base defense bonus.


That's what I mean, and it's pretty severe to take a character down to 10. I don't recall other d20 games doing that, but I'd have to check. In the supers genre - that's a game killer variant.




On the superspeed variant - it makes a major change in the balance of play for speedsters. To balance it, a speedster should also not be allowed to use any speed based attack against another like-speed speedster.

For example, if I have a whirlwind attack, a sonic boom, a mach one punch, or some kind of autofire idea based on the theory of hitting them several times in a second, etc... I should not be allowed to use it against someone moving just as fast if the defense bonus variant is introduced.

Otherwise you have a play imbalance.
User avatar
arcady
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:10 pm
Location: San Francisco native

Postby Aaron Sullivan » Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:49 pm

overall I liked the book

Always good to hear. 8)

there's no value in a review that does not point out the problem spots.


Perfectly valid point, and one I won't argue against. Conceded, sirrah, conceded. However, where I think there are things that are being called problems that, in fact, aren't, I hasten to point it out. By all means, continue to critique or call us on items you think need to be brought to everyone's attention-- if we agree on seomething being a problem, you can count on us to note it and correct it for posterity.


When I think modern supers, I think immediatly of Titans, X-Men, and so on.

Then I start thinking Rogue, Storm, Sage, Psylocke, Raven, Starfire, Wonder Girl, Emma Frost, and so on, along with Gambit, Wolverine, Cyclops, Bishop, Robin, Changeling, Impulse, Nightcrawler, and so on.


Perfectly legitimite observation, but I think what you're hitting on with those example isn't numbers (X-guys still outnumber X-gals overall) but "strength" of the character's personality or memorability. The X-Men do have some memorable ladies, and lordy did Claremont like to play that for all it was worth. But, IMO opinion, I happen to think Blackheart and Hell's Belles (just off the top of my head) are also strongly rendered. Regardless, believe me that the next modern Algie tome I'll put a little more thought into how my gender numbers are represented.



The only women named in the entire module in fact were two villains - one the main, one a conviving noble decieving her comrades.


Ugh. I'm not a Kalamar fan, so that wasn't an example I was familiar with. Unenlightened as it may be, FRPG more than any other gaming genre is, I think, still a slave to it's target demographic, namely adolescent males with...umm...singular views of gender roles.


That's what I mean, and it's pretty severe to take a character down to 10. I don't recall other d20 games doing that, but I'd have to check. In the supers genre - that's a game killer variant.


Again, not where I can check my books, but I'm pretty sure that's a standard usage in most modern d20 games that actually use defense bonuses beyond armor and such. And, at least in my experience, it helps maintain the suspension of disbelief where the stunned, blinded, partially snared skill monster would otherwise still be pretty much unhittable. Not even Snake Eyes or Batman get off with that luxury. :lol: In a system where a hit always equals damage (such as D&D), it might be a bit much, but Damage Saves and protection powers compensate for a lot in M&M.

But, your concern (or the concession that it would be a common such concern) was what prompted the note included at the end of the text to point out that the variant may not be suitable for all campaign models.


On the superspeed variant - it makes a major change in the balance of play for speedsters. To balance it, a speedster should also not be allowed to use any speed based attack against another like-speed speedster.

For example, if I have a whirlwind attack, a sonic boom, a mach one punch, or some kind of autofire idea based on the theory of hitting them several times in a second, etc... I should not be allowed to use it against someone moving just as fast if the defense bonus variant is introduced.


Definitely something for a GM to consider when using this variant. Definitely where Whirlwind Attack and the autofire attack are concerned, anyway, though I could see situations where the sonic boom are mach one punch would still be logical exceptions. Again, excellent point made for GMs to look at when considering the rule.
Aaron Sullivan
Wordmonkey for hire. Will supply own humor and poo for the flinging...
User avatar
Aaron Sullivan
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vague and Unnamed Netherworlds

Postby arcady » Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:57 pm

Aaron Sullivan wrote:
overall I liked the book

Always good to hear. 8)

there's no value in a review that does not point out the problem spots.


Perfectly valid point, and one I won't argue against. Conceded, sirrah, conceded. However, where I think there are things that are being called problems that, in fact, aren't, I hasten to point it out. By all means, continue to critique or call us on items you think need to be brought to everyone's attention-- if we agree on seomething being a problem, you can count on us to note it and correct it for posterity.
Well reviews are after all, just opinions.

So it's just a difference of opinion over what will or won't be an issue.

You did do a good job in noting variants as such and keeping them limited to themselves.

I could for example, say I did not like a variant in Unearthed Arcana, but I would not attack the Monster Manual over it, nor even the rest of that book. ;)

For sheer volume, layout, thouroughness, and general utility this is a top notch book.

The PLs of many of the characters will make this the book GMs turn to when they want a rough challenge for their PCs. Which is not always a bad thing. They're higher PL, but they don't as yet read to be absurd to me.

I'm listing what I see as issues in the variant rules because I think people might want to see those issues before they adopt a given variant, and see if that issue shows up in play for them or not.


I did like what you did with feats, I liked the Sorcery variant, I liked the way you built a Summon power, and I liked seeing Mind Scan - the hacks I'd used in my game to date were not meeting my needs well at all and I suspect your version will.

I'm fairly certain that the entire list of feats, powers, and options at the back of the book will get my approval for use by my players and in future NPCs... And if you've read reviews I've done before you'll know that's a rare statement from me.


The gender ratio is not -bad-, it's just a point I noticed. I've seen much worse, or cases where it was 'rudely typed' (such as the Kalamar example I gave). Overall, that is not an issue in this book.

The Kalamar example, btw, is lost on most Kalamar players as well. Even people who've run the module and written detailed journals of such fail to remember that only two females even had names, and all the others were only described as 'x number of babes in this room' (my players have taken to joking over how every old man in the module can be ranked by how many playboy models he has 'on staff' - and just what are they really doing there...). People never notice it until I point it out to them - which is actually why I do so, to get them thinking on those lines. As a note: what really made that Kalamar example stand out in my mind was how different it was from what I was used to in that setting. It was like going to 'Park Avenue' and seeing a hillbilly shack in the middle of all the mansions. :p
User avatar
arcady
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:10 pm
Location: San Francisco native

Postby Wolverine-X » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:08 pm

Arcady,

Lots of valid points in your critique. However, I think it all boils down to a matter of taste.

I for one don't see a problem with the gender balance. When I read a comic I don't really pay much attention to the number of males v. females...just the quality of presentation and development of the characters in the story. And with that in mind I think AF does an outstanding job...all of the characters, both male and female, are richly developed, well written and very playable in any level campaign.

As for the Rule Variants, I thought they were all very creative, well thought out...and most importantly playable. Of course, this is all subject to each individual GMs tasts (and of course his players), but I would definitely allow for any and/or all variants in my campaign. I don't think they create any imbalances...just alternatives and in some cases better ways to represent certain things within the Supers genre.

And sounding like a broken record...I feel the same way about the additional Feats and Powers in the book. I was extremely impressed with them. My favorite has to be Aerobatics! Now Flyers can be really interesting...makes a character like the original Angel a little more playable.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I give The Algernon Files a 9.9. I left out .1 as there is always room for improvment and most of all motivation to make The Algernon Files 2! :wink:

Well, that's my $.02. Like I stated initially this all boils down to a matter of taste.
User avatar
Wolverine-X
Hireling
Hireling
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:41 am

Postby Kenpo Wolf » Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:01 am

The Trapster wrote:Wonderful stuff! Been enjoying the reading the heroes so far. The Aerie are may favorites.


I have'nt bought the book yet but I've seen the Aerie pics on the website. They are my favorites as well although I might change their name to Avian Flight or Avian Force. What was their source of inspiration? When I looked at the pics, I got a distinct Gargoyles feel.
Kenpo Wolf
Cohort
Cohort
 
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 12:16 am
Location: Northern Ca

Postby Aaron Sullivan » Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:28 am

I have'nt bought the book yet but I've seen the Aerie pics on the website. They are my favorites as well although I might change their name to Avian Flight or Avian Force. What was their source of inspiration? When I looked at the pics, I got a distinct Gargoyles feel.


Though I liked the Gargoyles cartoon, to my conscious knowledge, they weren't any kind of influence. The Aerie came about because of a discussion I was having with a friend several years back. The discussion centered around team roles and motif characters -- he felt team requirements were too constraining and that motifs had been done to death. I came up with a motif and a few roles off the top of my head and then came up with characters to highlight that stuff could still be done within those constraints.

However, I do seem to remember Derrick mentioning something about G-Force/Battle of the Planets being an inspiration for his art for the Aerie. :lol:
Aaron Sullivan
Wordmonkey for hire. Will supply own humor and poo for the flinging...
User avatar
Aaron Sullivan
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vague and Unnamed Netherworlds

70's book planned?

Postby arosslaw » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:45 pm

I absolutely loved this book and definitely agree with an earlier poster that I felt it was much better than Crooks! in terms of variety (and interest) of the characters. And I thought Crooks! was outstanding.

Only problem was it left me wanting so much more? Any plans for a book detailing the second Sentinels team and the villains of their time?

Andrew Ross
arosslaw
Bystander
Bystander
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 11:52 pm

Postby Aaron Sullivan » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:01 pm

Only problem was it left me wanting so much more? Any plans for a book detailing the second Sentinels team and the villains of their time?


Now, see ...we don't view that as a problem at all. :wink:

If people continue to like what we do to the point of sales continuing to justify ... well ... continuing what we do, eventually we'll get to the silver-age stuff.

Our next book Fires of War: The Algernon Files Vol 2 will be giving a lot more info on the first team, however, among many other things.
Aaron Sullivan
Wordmonkey for hire. Will supply own humor and poo for the flinging...
User avatar
Aaron Sullivan
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vague and Unnamed Netherworlds

Postby SAVeira » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:47 pm

Aaron Sullivan wrote:If people continue to like what we do to the point of sales continuing to justify ... well ... continuing what we do, eventually we'll get to the silver-age stuff.

Our next book Fires of War: The Algernon Files Vol 2 will be giving a lot more info on the first team, however, among many other things.


I personally cannot wait. Found the first book is be one of the best things I have seen in a long time. I will buy the second volume and would also pay for a silver-age third volume.
S.A. Veira
SAVeira
Groupie
Groupie
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:03 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Postby blackwyrm » Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:48 pm

Thanks, Sean V. You and I have run across each other many times in the past, and I appreciate your support.
Dave Mattingly
BlackWyrm Games
www.blackwyrm.com
User avatar
blackwyrm
Supporting Cast
Supporting Cast
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:12 pm
Location: Louisville, KY

Like I said before, I love Algernon Files!

Postby Puroresu » Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:15 pm

I definitely highly recommend anyone purchasing The Algernon Files. I'm excited about your Golden Age product coming out. A Silver Age book would be cool as well.

I would also like the creators of The Algernon Files to take a look at my History of C.O.B.R.A. web page for the M & M RPG at:
http://www.brianrich.net/cobra.html

Serpentina, the snake goddess I've created, is inspired by your Serpent Queen character. I would really like to somehow publicize your wonderful book on my web site. Anything I can do to help you in your sales.
Puroresu
Groupie
Groupie
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:23 pm
Location: Meridian, Idaho

Postby Aaron Sullivan » Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:59 pm

I would really like to somehow publicize your wonderful book on my web site. Anything I can do to help you in your sales.


Thought much appreciated. Good luck with continuing to build and add onto the site. :)
Aaron Sullivan
Wordmonkey for hire. Will supply own humor and poo for the flinging...
User avatar
Aaron Sullivan
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vague and Unnamed Netherworlds

I will use The Serpent Queen after all!

Postby Puroresu » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:54 pm

Actually, I think I will use The Serpent Queen from The Algernon Files as my benefactress. This way, I can also shamelessly plug The Algernon Files book on my web site! Now all I need is the disclaimer to make sure everything is nice and legal.

No, I'm not going to make any money from the web site personally. I really want Blackwyrm Games to make more money in sales on The Algernon Files!
Puroresu
Groupie
Groupie
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:23 pm
Location: Meridian, Idaho

Disclaimer has been set up!

Postby Puroresu » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:07 pm

I just added the disclaimer for my History of C.O.B.R.A. web site in regards to The Algernon Files and Mutants & Masterminds. I really would like Aaron Sullivan and Dave Mattingly to please check out my web site at: http://www.brianrich.net/cobra.html

Also, I will add a link to BlackWyrm Games so people will know where to purchase The Algernon Files. Anything I can do to help BlackWyrm Games sell The Algernon Files because I absolutely love the product!
Puroresu
Groupie
Groupie
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:23 pm
Location: Meridian, Idaho

Postby Aaron Sullivan » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:12 pm

just added the disclaimer for my History of C.O.B.R.A. web site in regards to The Algernon Files and Mutants & Masterminds. I really would like Aaron Sullivan and Dave Mattingly to please check out my web site at: http://www.brianrich.net/cobra.html


Been there. Liked it. Keep up the good work and best of luck in continuing to build on it.

Anything I can do to help BlackWyrm Games sell The Algernon Files because I absolutely love the product!


That's an attitude we like. 8)
Aaron Sullivan
Wordmonkey for hire. Will supply own humor and poo for the flinging...
User avatar
Aaron Sullivan
Fanatic
Fanatic
 
Posts: 906
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:44 am
Location: Vague and Unnamed Netherworlds

PreviousNext

Return to Super-Powered by M&M

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests