Taliesin's 3E Builds: Moonstone, Binary, Rulk, Wasp, Shang

[hero4hire]

Shouldn't the cost be 8pp or am I missing something?

1 base + 3 reaction + 1 perception area -2 one degree only -1 limited to Opposite Sex = 2 X 4 ranks is 8.

Honestly I can't remember an instance where he actually stunned a female so she had to pay attention to him.
He really just got dates a lot. But then again I am not real familiar with his exploits as a felinoid.

[Taliesin]

Shouldn't the cost be 8pp or am I missing something?

1 base + 3 reaction + 1 perception area -2 one degree only -1 limited to Opposite Sex = 2 X 4 ranks is 8.

Perception Area is +2 if the power is not already Sense-Dependent to begin with.

It's 4 ranks and 12 points in the updated writeup.

[UnkindMirror]

Perception Area is +2 if the power is not already Sense-Dependent to begin with.

I think you might have that backwards:

"If it is applied to an already Sense-Dependent effect, it costs 2 points per rank rather than 1."

Affliction is not Sense-Dependent by default, so Perception-Area comes in at +1, since it adds Sense-Dependent (-1) as well.

Were Affliction Sense-Dependent already, then adding Perception-Area would be +2.

[Taliesin]

Perception Area is +2 if the power is not already Sense-Dependent to begin with.

I think you might have that backwards:

"If it is applied to an already Sense-Dependent effect, it costs 2 points per rank rather than 1."

Affliction is not Sense-Dependent by default, so Perception-Area comes in at +1, since it adds Sense-Dependent (-1) as well.

Were Affliction Sense-Dependent already, then adding Perception-Area would be +2.

You're right. I have no idea what I was thinking.

[Samson]

Tali, with some of the errata that came out with M&M3e, is this going to effect your previous 3e write-ups?

[Taliesin]

Tali, with some of the errata that came out with M&M3e, is this going to effect your previous 3e write-ups?

Yeah, I probably will make some changes. The errata are not extensive, AFAIK.

[Taliesin]

Stature
PL9

Abilities
Strength 0, Stamina 0, Agility 2, Dexterity 2, Fighting 6, Intellect 1, Awareness 3, Presence 3

Powers
Size Alteration: Array (51 points)

Size Increase: Growth 12, Continuous; Enhanced Defenses 6 (Dodge 3, Parry 3); Impervious Toughness 12; Reduced Trait (Fortitude -3) • 51 points
• Size Decrease: Shrinking 12, Continuous; Enhanced Advantages 15 (Close Attack 6, Defensive Roll 3, Ranged Attack 6) • 1 point

Advantages
All-Out Attack, Interpose, Teamwork, Well-Informed

Skills
Deception 4 (+7), Expertise: Popular Culture 6 (+7), Expertise: Science 4 (+5), Insight 8 (+11), Investigation 4 (+5), Perception 6 (+9), Persuasion 6 (+9), Technology 4 (+5)

Offense
Initiative +2
Unarmed +6 / +12**, Close, Damage 0 / 12* / -3**

Defense
Dodge 8 / 5* / 14**, Parry 8 / 5* / 14**
Toughness 0 / 12 (Impervious)* / 3**, Fortitude 3 / 12*, Will 6
*Only at Growth 12.
**Only at Shrinking 12.

Power Points
Abilities 34 + Powers 52 + Advantages 4 + Skills 21 + Defenses 14 = Total 125

Complications
Hello, Dark and Handsome: Cassie seems to be romantically attracted to villains.
Identity: Cassie’s Size Alteration power may be triggered by her emotions; anger causes Growth and guilt causes Shrinking.

Real Name: Cassandra Lang

Design Notes: If you assume Growth and Shrinking to work as written, Growth is underpriced and Shrinking is overpriced. My opinion is that Growth should either cost 3 points per rank or have an attack penalty commensurate with its defense penalty, and Shrinking should have the same attack bonus as it does defense. The other issue with Growth is that it does make Stature’s Fortitude resistance at normal size and reduced size very, very low. I’ve added in some trait adjustments to Cassie’s Size Alteration power to make her Growth and Shrinking work more to my liking. For a more complete discussion of how I’d like Growth/Shrinking to work, you can take a look at my house rules, linked at the top of my thread.

Update 6/14/2011: What started out as a tweak to Stature ended up being an overhaul of how I worked her Size Alteration power. Anyone who knows me is probably aware of my pet peeve with how Growth and Shrinking (and to a similar extent, Density) function in M&M.

[Taliesin]

Stature is actually a new build, unlike most of my other Marvel builds to this point. She uses the current incarnation of Growth and Shrinking. I do try to build all of these using the RAW rather than my house rules, but Growth and Shrinking are definitely powers I'd house rule, and probably I will update my posts on those effects soon.

[Woodclaw]

Stature is actually a new build, unlike most of my other Marvel builds to this point. She uses the current incarnation of Growth and Shrinking. I do try to build all of these using the RAW rather than my house rules, but Growth and Shrinking are definitely powers I'd house rule, and probably I will update my posts on those effects soon.

Thta will be a really a good idea, size-changign powers are big mess.

[hero4hire]

Good job on balancing her (Stature) for PL.

I was hoping when I heard they had errata'd Growth and Shrinking that they had actually fixed them. Ah well. I think I may adopt your houserules.

[UnkindMirror]

Toughness 0 / 12**, Fortitude 0 / 12**, Will 4

As you said, this looks like a recipe for disaster.


One workaround would be to attach Reduced Trait (Fortitude) to Growth ranks, which could allow the character to have a certain base Fortitude that's then both Reduced and Enhanced again when Growth activates. Awkward, but I find it preferable to running around with a zero resistance.

[Jabroniville]

Yeah, I've noticed that Growth seems to give you a HUGE boost to stats, for basically half-price, with no discernable stat-based reason. Sustained is only a +0 modifier, so it doesn't make much sense.

[Taliesin]

House Rules #5: Simple Growth/Shrinking Changes

My preferred variant of Growth and Shrinking would be to reduce the ability modifiers by 25% and use a scale of x8 mass per change in size. This has the benefit of scaling each doubling in height to a x8 in mass and lifting strength, keeping the trait bonuses at a manageable level, and allowing the unmodified form to be somewhat competent. As it stands with Growth in the RAW, you’d likely need to be about PL10 to sustain Growth 12 and PL12 to sustain Growth 16.

My variants are linked below:

Growth
Shrinking

These changes are rather extensive and may not be everyone’s cup of tea. One change I think should be made, though, is to correct the costs of Growth and Shrinking from those in the rulebook.

Currently, Growth seems underpriced; per four ranks or one size: +4 Strength and Stamina (16 points), -2 active defenses (-4 points), +1/2 speed (0.5 points), +2 Intimidation (1 point), -4 Stealth (-2 points), and the drawback of being oversized (point value uncertain). That’s 11.5 points of net worth, minus the oversized drawback, which probably isn’t worth 3.5 points, but you only pay 8 points.

Likewise, Shrinking seems overpriced; per four ranks or one size: -1 Strength (-2 points), -1/2 speed (-0.5 points), +2 active defenses (4 points), +4 Stealth (2 points), -2 Intimidation (-1 point). That’s 2.5 points worth of traits, with the caveat that further reducing Strength has diminishing effect, but you pay 8 points for that. The Normal Strength Extra allows you to retain 3.5 points worth of traits for 4 points.

My recommendation is to include attack check penalties equal to the active defense penalties for Growth and attack bonuses equal to the defense bonuses for Shrinking. This would bring their costs per four ranks to 7.5 (for Growth) and 6.5 (for Shrinking), which are much closer to the actual cost of 8 points, and the difference can be more easily attributed to ad hoc drawbacks and advantages of the size change.

In addition, this solves the issue of two larger creatures having an easier time hitting each other than two Medium creatures and two smaller creatures having a harder time hitting each other. With the attack modifiers scaling with defense modifiers, the modifiers will cancel out for two creatures of equal size.

[Sacremas]

I think I'm going to use the version with attack modifiers changing in proportion with the defense modifiers, it seems a simple solution.

Sue's looking good, but I noticed her suffocation power, which I guess is a model of her putting a forcefield over a target's head. DId you forget to make the duration Concentration maybe? After all if they keep going she doesn't have to put another bubble over their heads next round. If possible you might want to bump up it's rank as well even with a continuous duration, as it's Sue's main attack against the Hulk and similar bruisers, and given that she's actually taken the Hulk out that way once...

Oh yeah, a request as well, if you got the time; Ikaris of the Eternals. Sersi would be cool as well, especially as you never did her in 2e, but I'm a bigger fan of the old mullet-head.

Also, since you got a problem with posting your Gladiator, I'm guessing Hyperion is right out the window... but how about a "modify the DCA HH Superman stats this way and that way" blurb? That might be your solution to the Gladiator thing to avoid posting up Superman's stats as well. Let's use the Squadron Supreme version of Hyperion.

EDIT: Although the ultimate villain version of Hyperion, King Hyperion of the Exiles and most recently seen in the Heroic Age Blue Marvel story would be pretty neat as well, especially as he's apparently the one who's going to be joining the Thunderbolts next issue...

[Taliesin]

I think I'm going to use the version with attack modifiers changing in proportion with the defense modifiers, it seems a simple solution.

Sue's looking good, but I noticed her suffocation power, which I guess is a model of her putting a forcefield over a target's head. DId you forget to make the duration Concentration maybe?

?? The duration is Concentration.

After all if they keep going she doesn't have to put another bubble over their heads next round. If possible you might want to bump up it's rank as well even with a continuous duration, as it's Sue's main attack against the Hulk and similar bruisers, and given that she's actually taken the Hulk out that way once...

I can drop a modifier to free up points, but it's going to be tough to jack up its rank and have it be so expensive per rank.

Oh yeah, a request as well, if you got the time; Ikaris of the Eternals. Sersi would be cool as well, especially as you never did her in 2e, but I'm a bigger fan of the old mullet-head.

Also, since you got a problem with posting your Gladiator, I'm guessing Hyperion is right out the window... but how about a "modify the DCA HH Superman stats this way and that way" blurb? That might be your solution to the Gladiator thing to avoid posting up Superman's stats as well. Let's use the Squadron Supreme version of Hyperion.

EDIT: Although the ultimate villain version of Hyperion, King Hyperion of the Exiles and most recently seen in the Heroic Age Blue Marvel story would be pretty neat as well, especially as he's apparently the one who's going to be joining the Thunderbolts next issue...

I think I may drop in my Gladiator build later. It's not completely identical, after all.