Marvel Superhero to MnM conversion Chart

[Foreshadow]

Quick chart I created. Could be useful so I posted it.

(-5) Shift 0, completely inept or disabled
(-4) Feeble, weak, infant
(-3) younger child
(-2) Poor, child, elderly, impaired
(-1) below average, teenager
0 Typical, average adult
1 above average
2 Good, well above average
3 gifted
4 Excellent, highly gifted
5 best in nation
6 Remarkable, one of the best in the world
7 Best ever peak of human achievement
8 Incredible, low superhuman
9
10 Amazing, moderate superhuman
11
12
13 Monstrous, high superhuman
14
15 Unearthly, very high superhuman
16
17
18 Shift X
19
20 Shift Y
21
22 Shift Z, low cosmic
23
24 Class 1K
25
26
27 Class 3k, cosmic
28
29
30 Class 5k, high cosmic

If you have a suggestion for 15+ on the scale go for it. I'd have to really give it more thought so I'm not satisfied with the upper scale but its only a rough outline so its good enough for government work.

[Foreshadow]

I adjusted the chart which I liked as it was logically uniform but the MnM benchmarks for abilities is not uniform, instead Steve made 'moderate superhuman' start at 10 and end at 12, and yet high superhuman is only 13 and 14, and then starts at 15 very high.

The chart may change but play with it and see how you like it if your interested in such things. It is not something more than a guideline.

Spiderman's Agility, 12, high end of modern superhuman where he has generally placed in most games. Perhaps his Dodge is +14 or +15, maybe +16. He is harder to hit with a ranged weapon than Batman IMO but his parry is much lower than Batman. So he'd be (to me) a character with a differing dodge/parry and yet I could see him with like a Parry 12 Dodge 16, but you may disagree with that approach, yet the Agility 12 seems like most would agree with that.

[pawsplay]

Given the soft cap of 20, I think it would feel elegant in some way if Shift X mapped to 20.

[CENTINULL]

Hey Foreshadow, nice work on the conversion chart.


I'm going to tray a slightly modified version of it and see how it works out.

(-5) Shift 0, completely inept or disabled
(-4) Feeble, weak, infant
(-3) younger child
(-2) Poor, child, elderly, impaired
(-1) below average, teenager
0 Typical, average adult
1 above average
2 Good, well above average
3 gifted
4 Excellent, highly gifted
5 best in nation
6 Remarkable, one of the best in the world
7 Best ever peak of human achievement
8 Incredible, low superhuman
9
10 Amazing, moderate superhuman
11
12
13 Monstrous, high superhuman
14
15 Unearthly, very high superhuman
16
17
18
19
20 Shift X, Cosmic

For my campaigns, anyone with Shift X + powers is just going to be regulated to PLX plot devices

[Foreshadow]

Updated info

[Foreshadow]

I updated the chart above and expanded it. I did some research and used Marvel Comics strength scale which I found matches to a point with another chart I found on the MSH Classic website that, believe it or not, matches with the chart above.

For example, Shift Z stateds Up to 10k tons and on the DCA chart there is a 12k ton so I matched those up and it falls relatively into line.

Then I went to the list of marvel characters and it really wasn't hard to figure out most had strength 2-14, with many 4-10 strength range. Green Goblin has 7, Spider-Man 8

On the marvel chart there is a place for 60, 75, 90 tons and I matched up the classes from the Marvel comics with that. So when you see 'can lift up to 90 tons' for Captain Britain, that is 14 Strength, MSH 90.

In the end there is really no right or wrong way but what I have made is a logical way to do it and thus all these characters can basically be translated by and large.

It gets better, Red Hulk, the Hulking Brute in 2e MnM Villain archetypes was basically based on it. What strength does Red Hulk have: 18 strength and he has a limit and is basically as strong as an 'enraged hulk' but can grow stronger with exposure to radiation.

Hulk (gray: at rest) has 12, Hulk (green: at rest has 14), Hulk (merged: at rest 15)

Here is a list of quick strength scores. I am still working on the upper level ones and might tweek them a bit. Hulk can grow in strength but that is base where it starts for those types. Guys like Abomination have 17, Thor would have 16 or 17, Beta-Ray Bill 16 or 17, Sentry 19, but the neat thing is I'm not stretching it up much or just making it up. I can go to the marvel list and see it, and there are plenty of characters with incalcuable greater than 100 tons, up to 10k tons. Hercules is one of those. For him, He is equivalent to a Wonder Woman in his Universe (a god-like fighter, who is much stronger than most other 'gods' of his type, He has 16.

With guys like Venom, Eddie would have 1 (or 2 if you truly want it) but I thought it more flavorful to make the symbiote grant Enhanced Strength 8.

Guys like Namor have varying strength depending on how long he is out of water but in water has Enhanced Strength so he ranges from 8 to 13, and 15 in the water. Same with a Tiger Shark character.

If your interested I went to these sites to do research:

http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms ... versal.gif

this was a link inside the Classic marvel site itself listed under Benchmarks

http://www.classicmarvelforever.com/cms ... rsion.html

http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale
where you can find the list below (and more)

This is just strength but similar charts can be created for other attributes. I started one for Fighting. In the end I followed Steve's DCA benchmarks (though truth be told I think he could have done it a bit more logical but I stuck with it as its more useful for all of us that way.

Baron Mordo 1
Banshee 1
Baron Strucker 2
Bullseye 2
Cyclops 2
Havok 2
Hawkeye 2
Iceman 2
Iron Fist 3 (5 by channeling chi); Strike +5 = 8 damage with chi
Mystique 2
Nightcrawler 2
Taskmaster 3
Basilisk 5
Batroc 4
Black Cat 5 (wearing costume; 1 without)
Black Panther 4
Black Widow 3
Captain America 5
Colossus 4 (unarmored), +10 Enhanced Strength = 14 armored
Daken 3
Daredevil 3
Venom (eddie brock 1 without symbiote), +8 Enhanced Strength = 9 with symbiote
Hellstorm 4
Hydroman 3
Ka-Zar 3
Kingpin 4
Mister X 4
Moon Knight 3
Mysterio 3
Patriot 5 (6 after blood transfusion)
Speed Demon 3
All-American 6
Andaconda 6
Baron Blood 5
Black Bolt 6
Blade 6
Blue Shield 6
Captain Mar-Vell 5 (without Nega-Bands; +4 with Nega-band solar enhancement = 9)
Crimson Dynamo I 6
Deadpool 4
Deathcry 6
Doctor Doom 6 (12 for Overshadow)
Destroyer 6
Deacon Frost 6 (vampire)
Emma Frost 6 (in diamond form)

Kraven 6 (4 without mystical potion)
Lady Deathstrike 6
Morbous
Paladin 6
Quicksilver 3
Sabertooth (viktor creed) 6
Toad 3
Vermin 4
Werewolf 5 (without full moon light; 6 with full moon light)
Zombie 4

Adam Warlock 7
Archnae 8
Battlestar 8
Beast 8
Dracula 7
Fly 7
Ghost Rider 8 (dan ketch)
Ghost Rider 7 (Johnny blaze)
Green Goblin 7 (original goblin)
Green Goblin 8 (later incarnations, norman reborn; norman 14 wearing iron patriot armor)
Kang 7
Klaw 7
Machine Man 8
Mach-4 7 (as beetle 6)
Mister Sinister 8
Mongoose 8
Omega Red 5 to 8
Overmind 8 (without using psionic powers); 10 using psionic powers

Bulldozer 8
Piledriver 8 (3,+5 enhanced strength)
Thunderball 8 (3, +5 enhanced strength)
Wrecker 8 (4, +4 enhanced strength); 12 when not sharing power; Power House archetype, Crowbar = +3 strike = 12 dam or 15 dam when solo; made of +20 material strength), or 8 + 3 = 11 damage with wrecking crew. (ie Amazing damage): I suppose you could make the crowbar +4 damage.

Ronin the Accuser 8 (without armor; +4 in armor = 12)

Spider-Man 8
Spider-Woman 7
Sub-Mariner (8 when dry after 24 hours, 9 when dry for 12 hours; 10 when on land for 6 hours
11 when on land for 3 hours, 12 when on land for 1 hour, 13 when on land, 15 in water)
Tigra 7
Tombstone 7
US Agent 8
Vision 7 (normal density); 11 maximum density (12 possibly)

Ajak 9
American Eagle 9
Armadillo 10
Caber 10
Captain Mar-Vell (noh-varr) 10
Ch’od 9
Crusader 10 (peak faith; 5-10 range)
Cupid 10
Demeter 10
Demolition Man 9
Doctor Octopus 8 (powerlifting 2 using 3 tentacles; each lifts 8 tons each, with 1 bracing)
Enchantress 10
Eternals 9
Grey Gargoyle 8
Hera 10 (standard Olympian has 10 strength)
Luke Cage 10
Lizard 9
Ms Marvel (9, in she-thing form +4 strength = 13 strength)
Neptuna/Namora 9 strength (nerid); 13 in water

Power Princess 9
Puma 9
Scorpion 9; with symbiote 10 or 11
Unicorn 9
Ursa Major 4 (+5 in bear form = 9 strength)

Adam Warlock 11
Apollo/Helios 11
Artemis 10
Athena 10
Balder 11
Blastaar 11
Carnage 10
Attuma 10
Diamondhead 10
Dionysus 10
Drax the Destroyer 11
Firelord 11
Frey 10
Ganymede 10
Grog the God-Slayer 10
Guardsman (armor) 10 (2 + 8 enhanced strength)

Asgardian/Olympian 10 strength base
Heimdall 10 strength
Hermes 10 strength, 15 super-speed
Loki 10 (originally), 11 currently, capable of more through magic

Master Man 11
Molten Man 10
Nova 10
Photon 9
Roughhouse 11
Sabra 11
Shiva 10
Tiger Shark 10 when dry after 24 hours, 11 when dry for 12 hours; 12 when on land
14 in water
U-Man 10 (11 when wet)
Tyr, Sif 10
Valkyrie 10
Pan 11 (Horned God; Woodsy Lord)

Ares 13
Pluto 12 (magic rank 20)
Poseidon 14 (magic rank 20 for water control/weather control)
Doc Samson 12
Executioner 12
Hera 11
Horus 11
Hulk (gray hulk 12 ‘calm’), 4 rank enhancement when angry (16 max)
Savage Hulk (14 ‘calm’) (6 rank enhancement, 19 max)
Merged Hulk (15 ‘calm’) (6 rank enhancement, 21 max), the max for the Hulk is functional and could be eliminated. I suspect if he were officially made he would ultimately have a limit, but it might be like rank 28, and might be limited to power lifting.

Current idea of how I want to do Hulk strength. Bonus strength (possibly stamina) with a reduced cost (possibly via Power Lifting, an already limited strength which is 1 pp rank, so for 1 pp you get 2 ranks of power lifting. Cheap strength with a mechanical trigger (defined game mechanic trigger) and descriptor (limited by Uncontrolled)

Hulk strength when angry is enhanced Strength with Limitation (Uncontrolled) and gradual (like fades) so that he gains bonus strength but at a reduced cost so the point is he gains extra for less like +1 strength for 1 pp instead of 2 pp. Angry is defined as a condition that triggers the increase (i.e. Hulk takes damage), increase is gradual at +1 per round at most thus its Limited. Gradual should be at most a 1 point flaw (not 1 pp per rank, but 1 total point) as it is minor but is a limit. It could also be handled as equivalent to a Feature. Thus if this were a player character why would a player want this: more strength at a reduced cost. It needs to be Uncontrolled so the player cannot decide when to use it, but only when the conditions are met and then the GM decides.

Personally, I like the idea of a Hulk with increasing ranks of Growth so the madder hulk gets the larger hulk gets and along with it an increase in strength/stamina slightly and this can be linked to an increase in Enhanced Strength and/or Stamina, but I think Strength is probably the best choice. These are only my current ideas and need to be worked out and developed.

Ironclad 12
Magdalene 13
Man-Killer 13
Lunatik 13 (eventually 14)
Midnight Sun (Malekith the Dark Elf, Elcipso equivalent) 13
Attuma 11
Black Bolt 11
Dionysus 11 (in physical prime)
Nebula 12
Odin 14 (magic rank 20-25 depending)

Orak 13
Redstone 13
Rhino 13 when no wearing suit; 14 wearing suit
Rockslide
Terrax the Tamer 13 (without power cosmic; with power cosmic 15 or 16)

Captain Britain 14 (with costume; 2 + 12 enhanced strength)
Deathlok 13 (design has potential for 15 strength)
Griffon 14
Hyperion 14
Lionheart 14
Quicksand 13
Sphinx 13
Osiris 13

Sandman 12 (13 at large size, +1 growth)
Zuras 15
Zeus 15 (13 + 2 enhanced from cosmic powers) (magic 20 lightning bolts, maybe 21 or 22)

Red Hulk 18 (augmentable to 20 through radiation exposure)

A-Bomb 15
Bloodaxe 15
The Captain 14 (mega-star; possibly 15)

Set 15 (rank 17 magic)
Hyperion 15
Iron Man 14

Kronnans 15
Leir 15
Orka 15, greater when augmenting strength with energies of killer whales (16 or 17)
Siege 15

Titania 15 (stats would be a lot like Knockout in the DCA quick rules, very similar characters)
Ulik 14 (maybe 15 or 16, but maybe 14 + power lifting and knuckle dusters are a +2 to +3 weapon)

Abomination 17
Abraxas 16
Ajax 16
Akhenaten 18

[Foreshadow]

Worked on the chart a bit and here is the equivalent Marvel SAGA, and I found an expanded MSH chart that uses additional levels such as Awesome (90) in between Monstrous and Unearthly and expands the lifting weight to reflect more established weights the characters are capable of in the comics:

Remarkable 7 str (30)
up to 1 ton
Spectacular 8 str (35),
up to 5 tons (Spider-man Str, uses extra effort to achieve 10 tons)
Incredible 9 str (40)
up to 10 tons
Spectacular 10 (45)
up to 25 tons
Amazing 11 (50)
up to 50 tons
Sensational 12 (60)
up to 100 tons
Monstrous 13 (75)
up to 250 tons (or in DCA between 200-399 tons)
Awesome 14 (90)
up to 500 tons (or in DCA between 400-799 tons)
Unearthly 15 (100)
up to 1000 tons (or in DCA between 800-1599 tons)
Shift X 16 (150)
up to 2000 tons (or in DCA between 1600-3.19 tons)
Shift Y 17 (200)
up to 4000 tons (or in DCA between 3.2k-5.9k tons)
Shift Z 18 (500)
up to 10,000 tons (or in DCA between 6k-11.9 tons)
A DCA 19 strength is like 750 on the scale of MSH, between Shift Z and Class 1k

Class 1k, can "move moons", 21 str to 24
Class 3k, can 'move planets", 24 str to 28
Class 5k, "he moved what?!", 29 or 30

[Foreshadow]

Ok, I erased much of the last few post as I reorganized them and will feed them into a file I'll post at some future date.

[sak0232]

Hey,

I love what you're doing here. I have all the old Handbooks, and I run a Marvel campaign currently.
I used the benchmark descriptions in the Judge's Book of MSH to try and match the power benchmarks in the DCA:HH. I did not come up with a single conversion chart, though, as the power ranks did not match up exactly, especially for Strength and Stamina.
I'll post the tables when I get a chance.

My biggest problem when converting is Endurance and Body Armor. When converting Endurance to Stamina, it increases Toughness. Then, when adding Body Armor as Protection, it really increases the Toughness of the converted character.
MSH separated Health points and protection.
I've learned that Endurance should translate to Fortitude, while Body Armor is the sole contributor to Toughness. The base Stamina score is based upon the subject's Strength.
Does this make sense?

Steve-0

[JoshuaDunlow]

Here are my own conversion notes.

http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopi ... 80#p495880

[Lovebat]

I am a newcomer to this system and I just couldn't identify with the awesome strength levels compared with the old Marvel system. "Unearthly" used to mean lifting up to 100 tons which basically meant that Superman was 120 times stronger than Thor, which was clearly nonsense (and slightly offensive to hardcore fans).

Most of the official guidance on strength and power levels in the Marvel Universe tends to give up after 90 tons which I suppose is reasonable given the artistic licence used in the comics themselves as plot devices or to increase the heroic nature of the protagonists. The Marvel games systems followed suit.

I have read comics where the Shi-Ar Gladiator carries the Baxter Building into orbit, The Hulk throws a freight train (with all carriages intact) at Thor (who smashes it), Hercules even tows Manhattan Island back into the mouth of the Hudson River in a Marvel Team-Up!

You have done a grand job given the circumstances.

[sak0232]

Here's what I use...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html

Enjoy!

Hey,

I love what you're doing here. I have all the old Handbooks, and I run a Marvel campaign currently.
I used the benchmark descriptions in the Judge's Book of MSH to try and match the power benchmarks in the DCA:HH. I did not come up with a single conversion chart, though, as the power ranks did not match up exactly, especially for Strength and Stamina.
I'll post the tables when I get a chance.

My biggest problem when converting is Endurance and Body Armor. When converting Endurance to Stamina, it increases Toughness. Then, when adding Body Armor as Protection, it really increases the Toughness of the converted character.
MSH separated Health points and protection.
I've learned that Endurance should translate to Fortitude, while Body Armor is the sole contributor to Toughness. The base Stamina score is based upon the subject's Strength.
Does this make sense?

Steve-0

[westontinople]

Thanks, very helpful!

[scc]

I know in the city campaign book they give examples, or a example, of what Cl3000 and Cl5000 strength feats. I don't believe it is much as you would think just talking about moving bridges and Statue of Liberty. The charts on the Marvel rpg sites are fan created to a point.

[Foreshadow]

Just noticed this, the new Marvel books have a scale 1-7. This could be equated to the older marvel system in that 1 = good, 2 = excellent, 3 = remarkable, 4 = incredible, 5 = amazing, 6 = monstrous, 7 = unearthly. Levels like the Shift levels didn't come out till later and only as a way to give variance to the highest level so for a character like the Hulk or Ymir where they state can lift well over 100 (and Thor, Hercules, etc.) that simply signifies a Shift trait.

Just food for thought.