What will they think of next?!

[Rubber Band Man]

These whipper-snappers have up and done it again! Now they got MUDs and MUXs and MUSHs. What the heck are those darn things anyway?! Sounds alot like that Ever-Crack game to me!

No, seriously though, what is a MUSH and how does it work?

I personally have never been a fan of online gaming. To me it takes away the social aspect of gaming. I have a much easier time reading players words and facial expressions than I would their emails or IMs. Even the people I game with face to face are always misinterpreting emails to one another...and we know eachother well.

Rather than tell you that one type of gaming is better than another, I salute those of you who play by email or chat. You've shown that the game is important enough to you that you would invent new ways to play. Kudos!

[Dr. Nuncheon]

No, seriously though, what is a MUSH and how does it work?

Ever play Zork, or any of the other text adventure games? It's a lot like that, crossed with IRC. There's a virtual world you can move around in, talk to other people in, and do other stuff, depending on the code. I've got code to roll dice and keep track of initiative order in combat on the place that I use, for instance.

J

[Iron Poet]

http://samaritan1975.proboards20.com/index.cgi

Incidentally, I host a Play-by-post board... I'm planning on running a small (4 player) M&M game therein. If you wanna stop by, please do. Game won't start till after September (wedding and all), but I'm doing it just to see if I can, really.

EDIT- To clarify, my player slots are already full. But if you'd like to see how PbP works, there are a few other games (Amber, Demon, Call of Cthulu, and a couple of D&D games) going on.

[The Shadow]

I played on a MUSH for seven years, and enjoyed the heck out of it. Quit because it was a little TOO addictive. :)

It's not Ever-Crack, that's for sure. No visuals. Often not much in the way of system. Character conflicts are often handled by common consent.

The one huge advantage of MUSHing is that a GM doesn't have to create an entire world - it's THERE! There are no NPC's - everyone is automatically a PC, out there scheming their own schemes, plotting their own plots, living their own lives, fighting their own fights. You don't need a GM to give the world that living, breathing feel. It's built in.

Tremendous fun, but I'd never trade F2F gaming for it. There's a certain distance with the screen... and being able to game 24/7 does have its downside.

[The Shadow]

Oh, just to comment on the difference between all the acronyms. :)

MUSH stands for "Multi-User Shared Hallucination". They're environments designed pretty much for roleplaying. Usually, as I said, very system-light. I played mostly on AmberMUSH, based on the Amber Diceless system, which was just about ideal for the format.

MUD is "Multi-User Dungeon". To be unkind (I have a MUSHer's prejudices) they're basically Evercrack without pictures. While I understand some people do RP in them, the system is geared around killing-things-and-stealing-their-loot.

I forget what the X in MUX stands for. Honestly, I don't know much about them. My impression is that they are primarily for socializing, but I'm willing to be corrected.

Collectively, all these things are designated "MU*". However, as you may have gathered, players of the various forms don't overlap a whole lot... The few MUSHers I knew who also played in MUDs said they did the latter to blow off steam.

None of them is particularly "new-fangled", really, at any rate in computer terms. AmberMUSH, one of the oldest, has been around nearly fifteen years. MUDs are considerably older than that.

[SuentisPo]

I personally know MUDs have been around for 20 years.

I never was interested in them but I got to hear about them.

[AnnaRogue]

Hey, Shadow, welcome back. And thanks for the explination. I had no idea what people were talking about everytime they mentioned MUSH's.

[The Shadow]

Thanks, AnnaRogue, and you're welcome. Thought I'd drop on by the old place. :) I noticed you said you're reading the Shadow logs... feel free to comment on them.

Another thing about MUSHing... You'd think people couldn't get along without a GM or referee of some sort, but actually it all works out. The primary concept is that of "consent". Nothing can be done to your character without your consent. (Most especially killing them!)

However, the balancing factor is "the law of the sandbox" - if you abuse the consent process - refusing to get hurt even when facing a manifestly superior opponent, for example - people will refuse to interact with you. In extreme cases (I only saw it happen twice in seven years) they may even announce that as far as they're concerned, your characters don't exist - refuse even to acknowledge their presence.

The other interesting thing is that character advancement is usually by the vote of one's fellow players. In AmberMUSH - easily the largest out there, at any rate it used to be - they held voting panels of randomly-selected players every month. Even if everyone voted against you, you'd get a tiny amount of advancement; but if you were at all decent an RPer, you'd get considerably more. Of course, abuse does creep in when someone has a lot of friends out there, but surprisingly little.

Abusive power-gamer types don't tend to last long. Successful MUSHers realize that powertripping doesn't make for a good story. Players of powerful characters will find IC reasons not to kill someone off, as that's just no fun for anyone. (Unless, as sometimes happens, the player wants their character to go out in a blaze of glory.)

[AnnaRogue]

Thanks, AnnaRogue, and you're welcome. Thought I'd drop on by the old place. I noticed you said you're reading the Shadow logs... feel free to comment on them.

I just recently finished them. They were awsome. I wish I could play in a campaign that well thought out and stroy driven.
I was really impressed by how much thought went into the Shadow's background (and the setting's background, as far as psi-powers), and the NPC's.

[Ronin]

Oh, just to comment on the difference between all the acronyms.

MUSH stands for "Multi-User Shared Hallucination". They're environments designed pretty much for roleplaying. Usually, as I said, very system-light. I played mostly on AmberMUSH, based on the Amber Diceless system, which was just about ideal for the format.

MUD is "Multi-User Dungeon". To be unkind (I have a MUSHer's prejudices) they're basically Evercrack without pictures. While I understand some people do RP in them, the system is geared around killing-things-and-stealing-their-loot.

[nitpick type=minor]
There days, those are mostly LP-MUDs and Diku-MUDs. The original TinyMUD, while it had 'kill' commands and the like, was much less oriented towards such things, and was much more of a social area. The MUD-types did quickly evolve more towards the LP and Diku styles though, while two offshoots, MUSHes and MUCKs, steered more towards the role-playing environments. I can't think of any MUDs running the original MUD code anymore.
[/nitpick]

And just because I was on the first MUD and the first LP-MUD and the first MUCK doesn't make me a geek. Right? Right??

I forget what the X in MUX stands for. Honestly, I don't know much about them. My impression is that they are primarily for socializing, but I'm willing to be corrected.

I think it's eXchange. Could be wrong, though. There are some RP-focused MUXs, such as the SuperMegatopia MUX.

Collectively, all these things are designated "MU*". However, as you may have gathered, players of the various forms don't overlap a whole lot... The few MUSHers I knew who also played in MUDs said they did the latter to blow off steam.

I've always found it odd that MUSHes and MUCKs don't overlap more than they do, since they're generally used for the same purpose. Probalby due to the differences in command structures.

None of them is particularly "new-fangled", really, at any rate in computer terms. AmberMUSH, one of the oldest, has been around nearly fifteen years. MUDs are considerably older than that.[/quote]

I was on TinyMUD back in '88, and it was old then.

[The Shadow]

[nitpick type=minor]
There days, those are mostly LP-MUDs and Diku-MUDs. The original TinyMUD, while it had 'kill' commands and the like, was much less oriented towards such things, and was much more of a social area. The MUD-types did quickly evolve more towards the LP and Diku styles though, while two offshoots, MUSHes and MUCKs, steered more towards the role-playing environments. I can't think of any MUDs running the original MUD code anymore.
[/nitpick]

Honestly, Ronin, I've never been interested enough in MUDs to even find out what the different varieties are. :)

And just because I was on the first MUD and the first LP-MUD and the first MUCK doesn't make me a geek. Right? Right?? :)

No... No, I'm afraid it does make you a geek. :) Don't worry, though, I also was involved in the Internet before it got popular! Obviously not as involved as you... but I do know what "September" means, and have firsthand experience of why. ;)

"It's perpetual September for Amiga users, isn't it?"

I forget what the X in MUX stands for. Honestly, I don't know much about them. My impression is that they are primarily for socializing, but I'm willing to be corrected.

I think it's eXchange. Could be wrong, though. There are some RP-focused MUXs, such as the SuperMegatopia MUX.

OK. Could it maybe be eXperience?

Collectively, all these things are designated "MU*". However, as you may have gathered, players of the various forms don't overlap a whole lot... The few MUSHers I knew who also played in MUDs said they did the latter to blow off steam.

I've always found it odd that MUSHes and MUCKs don't overlap more than they do, since they're generally used for the same purpose. Probalby due to the differences in command structures.

I totally forgot about MUCKs... I know nothing about them, not even what the acronym stands for. If there's a significant difference in command structures, that's almost certainly why there's not much overlap, though. If you MUSH long enough, I can attest, posing becomes totally automatic. You don't have to consciously think about the quotes, colons, semicolons, and so on. If MUCKcode uses a different format, I'd have been tripping over it constantly and hating it.

Then again, even dedicated MUSHers tend to stick to one or two or a few sites - you get attached to your characters. I did almost all my RP on AmberMUSH, with one main character and one or two others on the side. I did also play on EndlessMUSH, was briefly a wizard of a couple that didn't get off the ground, and got invited to play features on a few others. (I still preen slightly over that, although I did decline.) There were dozens, if not hundreds, of other MUSHes that I knew only by reputation, if even that much.

Oh, I just remembered that I did visit FurryMUCK once. I probably repressed the memory out of trauma. ;)

Then there's MOOs. Not much sure about them, either.

None of them is particularly "new-fangled", really, at any rate in computer terms. AmberMUSH, one of the oldest, has been around nearly fifteen years. MUDs are considerably older than that.

I was on TinyMUD back in '88, and it was old then.[/quote]

I can believe it. I briefly visited a MUD in '90, and it was very well established. (Don't recall the name of it.) Only got involved in MUSHing in '94, quit in '01. My younger brother MUDded much more than I ever did.

[Dr. Nuncheon]

And just because I was on the first MUD and the first LP-MUD and the first MUCK doesn't make me a geek. Right? Right??

No... No, I'm afraid it does make you a geek. Don't worry, though, I also was involved in the Internet before it got popular!

Ohh, are we pulling our our "old geek" bona fides? I was on BITNET...

OK. Could it maybe be eXperience?

That'd be it. For those that care about codebases, it merged the best of TinyMUSH and PennMUSH. It's what I've been using for my online tabletop games, which is a bit over the top but hey, all my players were familiar with it and I had a spare BSD box, so why not?

(And for the record, MOOs are 'MUD, Object-Oriented')

I totally forgot about MUCKs... I know nothing about them, not even what the acronym stands for.

Multi User Chat Kingdom, apparently. I don't think it was ever as popular as the other codebases - the only two I ever remember are FurryMUCK and AnimeMUCK, which, well. Yeah.

MUSH got a huge boost from all the Pern sites running, and I think a lot of the newer World of Darkness sites run MUX because there's the option for some hardcoded support for various WODly things like Obfuscate and different realms.

There were dozens, if not hundreds, of other MUSHes that I knew only by reputation, if even that much.

Heh. DarkMetal mean anything to you?

J

[Ronin]

[nitpick type=minor]
There days, those are mostly LP-MUDs and Diku-MUDs. The original TinyMUD, while it had 'kill' commands and the like, was much less oriented towards such things, and was much more of a social area. The MUD-types did quickly evolve more towards the LP and Diku styles though, while two offshoots, MUSHes and MUCKs, steered more towards the role-playing environments. I can't think of any MUDs running the original MUD code anymore.
[/nitpick]

Honestly, Ronin, I've never been interested enough in MUDs to even find out what the different varieties are.

Fair enough.

And just because I was on the first MUD and the first LP-MUD and the first MUCK doesn't make me a geek. Right? Right??

No... No, I'm afraid it does make you a geek. Don't worry, though, I also was involved in the Internet before it got popular! Obviously not as involved as you... but I do know what "September" means, and have firsthand experience of why.

"It's perpetual September for Amiga users, isn't it?"

Yes, the Eternal September...

Somewhere around here i can a little script I wrote that calculates what day in September it is.

I forget what the X in MUX stands for. Honestly, I don't know much about them. My impression is that they are primarily for socializing, but I'm willing to be corrected.

I think it's eXchange. Could be wrong, though. There are some RP-focused MUXs, such as the SuperMegatopia MUX.

OK. Could it maybe be eXperience?[/quote]

Very possibly.

Collectively, all these things are designated "MU*". However, as you may have gathered, players of the various forms don't overlap a whole lot... The few MUSHers I knew who also played in MUDs said they did the latter to blow off steam.

I've always found it odd that MUSHes and MUCKs don't overlap more than they do, since they're generally used for the same purpose. Probalby due to the differences in command structures.

I totally forgot about MUCKs... I know nothing about them, not even what the acronym stands for. If there's a significant difference in command structures, that's almost certainly why there's not much overlap, though. If you MUSH long enough, I can attest, posing becomes totally automatic. You don't have to consciously think about the quotes, colons, semicolons, and so on. If MUCKcode uses a different format, I'd have been tripping over it constantly and hating it.

I don't think that the say and pose commands are different (" and : for MUCKs, and I beleive MUSHes as well), but the other commands, such as setting properties on things, etc, are significantly different, as I recall. It's been a while since I was last on a MUSH.

Then again, even dedicated MUSHers tend to stick to one or two or a few sites - you get attached to your characters. I did almost all my RP on AmberMUSH, with one main character and one or two others on the side. I did also play on EndlessMUSH, was briefly a wizard of a couple that didn't get off the ground, and got invited to play features on a few others. (I still preen slightly over that, although I did decline.) There were dozens, if not hundreds, of other MUSHes that I knew only by reputation, if even that much.

Another good point. Most people I know stick to one or two MUCKs/MUSHes, although there are always the extremists who are on a few dozen.

Oh, I just remembered that I did visit FurryMUCK once. I probably repressed the memory out of trauma.

Probably saved yourself some neurons that way.

Then there's MOOs. Not much sure about them, either.

I'd forgotten about the MOOs, LambdaMoo, etc.

None of them is particularly "new-fangled", really, at any rate in computer terms. AmberMUSH, one of the oldest, has been around nearly fifteen years. MUDs are considerably older than that.

I was on TinyMUD back in '88, and it was old then.

I can believe it. I briefly visited a MUD in '90, and it was very well established. (Don't recall the name of it.) Only got involved in MUSHing in '94, quit in '01. My younger brother MUDded much more than I ever did.[/quote]

I was relatively addicted for a while, back when Islandia was going strong. Nowadays I pop on occasionally, but it's more to keep up with friends than for much else.