Jab's He-Builds: Man-at-Arms, Mantenna, Leech, Beast Man

[Jabroniville]

80) THE ROSE
Whose Fault Is it: Stan Lee & John Romita
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 0
Boring: 3 (a major problem with him. Just never stood out, or was very interesting)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 2 (just another crimeboss)
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (ludicrous amount of code-names and identities)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 3 (he's called THE ROSE. Is that supposed to make him sound tough?)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 14

-The Rose is just a sissy. Initially called The Schemer, Richard wanted to punish his father for being an evil crimelord and not a "humble dealer of spices" like he thought. In the end, The Kingpin went into a catatonic state upon realizing his SON was The Schemer, which led to Richard's greatest flaw as a character- wishy-washiness. Overcome with guilt, Richard then took CARE of his father, and nursed him back to health, at which point he just decided to become a standard criminal like his daddy. Then he joined HYDRA or something, and then he tried to become a murdering vigilante called The Blood Rose, then he was hanging around with Delilah during the "Mark Bagley" years on the regular books, and then some OTHER stuff happened... and then they finally mercy-killed this terrible, sub-rate villain, with HIS MOM pulling the trigger, finally getting sick of his crap after all these years. Yes, they turned innocent ol' Vanessa Fisk into a Medea-style murderess (though not for the same reason). But it was for a good cause.



79) SUNPYRE
Whose Fault Is it: Scott Lobdell & Salador Larocca
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 0
Boring: 2 (Just an angry woman with nothing to separate her from her brother)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 3 (literally just Sunfire as a chick)
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (when exactly was Sunfire gonna get around to mentioning to anyone he had a sister?)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (uses Shiro's terrible '60s outfit)
Goofy (x2): 1 (just the idiocy of a randomly-inserted kid sister)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 12 (an embarassing retread of an already-existing character)

-Okay, am I crazy, or was Scott Lobdell a giant hack who ruined the X-books? I swear to God he's shown up like a million times on crappy-ass characters that I've built- Acolytes, Maggott, Marrow (her adult version was characterized by him) and THIS chick. Not only is "Suddenly Siblings" a stupid writing trick (like, why would Sunfire SUDDENLY have a sister with the exact same power-set revealed over THIRTY YEARS after he debuted in 1970, and after countless adventures with the X-teams?), almost as dumb as "Suddenly Children Who Have Been Mysteriously Aged to Adulthood", but to not even bother to add a real Japanese name (Leyu? He couldn't pick up a damn baby-name book for Japanese people, or just steal it from a pop star or something? It was 2001- we had the internet) is just extra stupid. The X-writers seemingly noticed how stupid the whole thing was (she was a carbon copy of Shiro in every way, including powers and temperament), and so they had Mystique casually murder her during another arc. Probably for the best.



All except Argent suck.

78) THE H'SAN NATALL TITANS (Prysm, Fringe, Joto, Risk, etc.)
Whose Fault Is it: Dan Jurgens
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 1 (lots of bad relationships with parents, etc.)
Boring: 2 (their biggest failing)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (some very lame post-80s designs here)
Goofy (x2): 1 (some bad designs, especially Joto's half-shirt over his tights)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2 (wannabe "cool kids" stuff)
Stereotypical: 1 (very much stereotypical dumb teenagers)
SUCK FACTOR: 15

-Basically, every one of these guys but Argent sucked. Generic powers (Joto was a Fire Guy, for example) mixed with stupid powers (Fringe was super-strong, but could create a Shadow Self that did stuff), and most of their personalities were bland. Like most writers of the Titans, Dan Jurgens has since blamed all the crappiness on the super-mean Editors who made him do all of these terrible things. Normally I call B.S. on that kind of thing, but with the Titans, I'm more inclined to believe it since EVERY writer has blamed them for stupid decisions. Of the entire group, only Argent was any good, and she was just a Boom-Boom retread.

77) PETE WISDOM
Whose Fault Is it: Warren Ellis
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 3 (Ellis used him as a Self-Insert CONSTANTLY- he even got to deflower KITTY PRYDE of all things! One of the top examples of a Mary Sue in comics history)
Angsty: 1
Boring: 1 (his powers are so dull it's scary- "Hot Knives" from his fingers)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 3 (obviously a 1990s character, with his spy backstory and his "tights are bollicks, mate" crap)
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 13 (Ellis' own personal Self Insert Mary Sue. Defiled the wonderful Kitty Pryde with his suckiness)

-Pete Wisdom's a character I've seen little of, having only read a smattering of Excalibur stuff from that era, and the first trade of "Captain Britain & MI:13". Near as I can tell, he's a Mary Sue-ish Warren Ellis creation, tossed into the books to give it some of that token dry British wit. He got to date Kitty Pryde, annoying the crap out of my teenage self since I hated this guy & his attitude, especially because he was made to look better than Colossus as a catch. He wound up on X-Force for whatever reason, doing a mostly-ignored arc on that series in it's dying days, and now he'd the Everyman character, having lost alot of his caustic wit. Not a big fan.



Fun Game: Try to get a girl you know to read comic books by giving her one featuring THIS character in THAT costume.

76) ALETA OGORD
Whose Fault Is it: Steve Gerber & Sal Buscema
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 1
Boring: 0
Over-Powered (x2): 2 (Flying Cosmic Brick)
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 3 (I can't make heads nor tales of her origin story)
Fanservice: 3 (ya could see pubic hair in real life, OK?)
Dated: 2 (very '90s with the star-field and the boobage. No mistaking this decade)
Goofy (x2): 1
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 15

-Aleta's one of the forgotten members of the team, which is funny, because it looks like she was a huge part of the '90s series. She was given some ass-backwards origin story as a 20th Century born girl fused (and later married) to Starhawk, but they later divorced and she hates him (But is on the same team with him anyways), and then she hooked up with Major Victory. At some point, her ex-husband fused himself into her body, giving her HIS powers, but that apparently got nulled too. See, this is why minor comics shouldn't have pain-in-the-ass complex backstories- it makes summing them up nearly impossible unless you've actually read the damn issues (see Penance of Generation-X for more of that) :).

-Her costume is just nutty, though. The starfield design is cool, and gold always looks good alongside black... but when Felicia Hardy and Tandy Bowen would "tsk tsk" at you for the sheer LENGTH of your plunging V-neckline, it's time to be a little more shy. I mean, this is the kind of thing that women would use against comic books and their writers/fans as sexist pigs, and it's hard to even defend.



75) TYROC
Whorse Fault Is it: Carey Bates & Mike Grell
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 2 (from a hidden race of people, preaching against racism)
Boring: 0
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 3 (VERY '70s)
Goofy (x2): 3 (little booties, a big open shirt, and powers based off of different kinds of screams)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 3 (angry black man personified, not to mention coming from a race of hidden black people)
SUCK FACTOR: 14

-Tyroc is one of the biggest forgotten Legionnaires in history. That'll happen when you're created as a Token Black Guy in the START of that era (also where the black Peanuts kid & Chuck Clayton came from), and the next one DC made, Black Lightning, was so much better. Ol' Tyroc here was descended from escaped slaves who found themselves on an island that teleports out of our system every 200 years or whatever, and was asked to join the Legion so DC could tell stories about political correctness and being nice to minorities. A noble gesture, if they didn't come on a guy wearing undies with nothing covering his legs, chest-baring shirts with giant collars, elf-shoes and a giant 'fro. So goofy was Tyroc, that he became famously IGNORED as a Legionnaire, eventually just disappearing altogether. He's so minor that he hasn't shown up in the Post-Zero Hour OR Threeboot eras, or even in the "old-school" revival we've just seen!

-The story of his creation is especially hilarious, as Grell & Bates wanted to add a black character to the Legion, but their racist Editor Murray Boltinoff wouldn't allow it. When he finally OK'd it, he gave them the concept- a black segregationist from a society where all the black people were hidden away. Now THAT is racist! Grell hated it so much he deliberately gave him a stupid appearance.

74) BISHOP
Whose Fault Is it: John Byrne, Jim Lee & Whilce Portacio
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 2 (EVERYWHERE in the mid-90s. He even got his own SERIES in the late-90s, and almost NO X-Men ever got that!)
Angsty: 3 (trapped in the past, his sister died, etc.)
Boring: 0
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 1 (very much a Cable rip in many ways, especially with his personality and guns)
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (standard "alternate future" junk)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 3 (oh so very '90s)
Goofy (x2): 1 (the jheri curl)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 3 (a gun-toting Dirty Harry-styled cop who kills people and always wants the most violent solution)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 18

-I was gonna say Bishop was a 'modern' addition to the X-Men lineage, but then I realized that I'm old and that was over fifteen years ago :(. Stupid aging. So yeah, Bishop was created in those HYPER-Badass Dork Age comics years, just around the Image Explosion of grim 'n' gritty anti-heroes taking over comics. With Cable in X-Force, Wolverine in X-Men Blue, and new gun-totting loonies popping up all over the place, the Gold Strike Force, with it's roster of less-popular guys, needed one too. Enter Bishop, a "kill 'em all" kind of cop from the future, chasing a foppish pansy Trevor Fitzroy through time, getting stuck, and mending his ways with the X-Men.

-Bishop's since become more notable for his early Jheri Curl haircut and his constant stream of cancelled solo books than anything else, and is currently going crazy evil, hunting the First Mutant Child because she apparently set off his whole lame future where mutants are all in concentration camps. I'd guess that means they're done with him as a meaningful good guy. But really, I wouldn't mind Bishop AT ALL if they didn't give him a monster push and give him his own title. And TWICE they've done it! There's better X-Men out there, Marvel....

-Despite his huge score, I didn't want him to be up too high on the list. I don't DESPISE the character, I just never cared about him and didn't appreciate how far he got pushed ahead of other, more deserving characters.



73) CHARLIE-27
Whose Fault Is it: Arnold Drake & Gene Colan
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 2 (sole survivor of his race against an unstoppable empire)
Boring: 3 (generic soldier with boring powers)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 2
Goofy (x2): 3 (His name is CHARLIE-27)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 13

-Charlie-27 would probably win any contest I can think of for "The Worst Super-Hero Name Ever". I mean, what kind of super-hero has a NUMBER in their name, let alone CHARLIE? Were they even trying? So this guy is a super-dense army guy from Jupiter, acting as the team's resident powerhouse & gun-fighter, and he looks ridiculous as all hell, being a big square dude.



Oh yeah, that's the stuff...

72) PANTHA
Whose Fault Is it: Marv Wolfman & Todd Grummett
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (kept showing up in the early-90s)
Angsty: 1 (ugly freak)
Boring: 0
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 3 (just another Wolverine rip-off- a grouchy animalistic type)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (this type of character really comes across as a 1990s thing)
Goofy (x2): 1 (silly appearance)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2 (catgirl who KILLS)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 14

-Pantha is another example of Marv Wolfman kinda losing it as the 90s moved on. His idea of creating a successful new Titan was an ugly cat-girl (which right there is a bad idea- what's the point of cat-girls in comics if you're going to make them UGLY?), who caustically insulted the entire team in a mean-spirited fashion (as opposed to Changeling's more annoying way), flipped out and attacked everybody, and adopted a baby Wildebeest-human. How this character failed to succeed, I have NO idea, but there she was, shunted in Comics Limbo (even Titans books later on only paid them minor lip service), only coming out to fight in mass Titans battles. The last one of which resulted in [BLEEP]-Prime knocking her freaking head off with a casual backhand. And not a single comics fan mourned the loss of Pantha.

71) THE METAL MEN
Whose Fault Is it: Robert Khaniger & Ross Andru
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0 (surprising, considering DiDio loves them)
Angsty: 2 (trapped as robots)
Boring: 2 (most of them have the same type of power)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (a few retcons tossed in there to make this annoying)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 3 (obviously created in the '60s)
Goofy (x2): 3 (Lead and Mercury especially looks retarded)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 1 (Platinum is your typical "hanger-on desperate woman" stereotype)
SUCK FACTOR: 15

-I just don't like them. They look silly, they have mostly the same powers, and... they just look silly. It's hard to take serious works like "The Crisis On Infinite Earths" seriously with goofy-ol' Mercury and his big nose sticking out like a sore thumb in every panel. The retcons (I think John Byrne did one) don't help. Stuff like this is why I always preferred Marvel to DC.

[Jabroniville]

70) ADAM WARLOCK
Whose Fault Is it: Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 2 (especially in the '90s' "Infinity" era)
Angsty: 1
Boring: 3 (I never found him even remotely interesting- way too vague and speaks in riddles)
Over-Powered (x2): 2 (a little TOO easily confident and competent)
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 3 (captain vague)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (looks very '70s)
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 16

-Adam Warlock is... another one of those guys I've never really 'gotten'. He says some cryptic stuff, flies around with his motley crew of goofy characters (Miss Absolute Cleavage-ingly Woman in the Universe, a drunk midget, a green retard and Sinead O'Connor with mentalism), beats cosmic beings, and eats souls. He's very weird, very hard to figure out, and I've never really been that attached to him as a character. He re-debuted in the "Conquest" portion of Annihilation, doing a bunch of damage after rebooting himself with new powers ("Quantum Magic"- because when Cosmic stuff just isn't enough- add the "I have every power" nature of Comic Book Magic), teaming with the High Evolutionary, but eventually just teaming with the rest of the gang in the Guardians of the Galaxy. He did a bit there (mainly being the tracker/detector and Blaster guy), before converting to his Magus persona, and setting off a big storm in that series, turning into the Magus and screwing around with the book and making it confusing.

69) MAGGOTT
Whose Fault Is it: Scott Lobdell & Joe Madureira
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (was everywhere in Joe Mad's X-books)
Angsty: 2 (a runaway from his family, who had metallic bugs for a stomach)
Boring: 1 (there's nothing TO him other than his weirdness)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (did the token "who IS this guy?" thing at first))
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (looks very '90s)
Goofy (x2): 3 (his power is that his stomach is bugs)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 14

-Wow, did Maggott ever suck. One of the fabled 'new' X-Men, Lobdell and then-superstar-artist Joe Madureira teamed up to create a batch of newbs for the X-books, intending to create their own permanent footprint on the book's storied history. What they came up with.... really sucked. Maggott was the worst of the new breed, having goofy-ass powers (SLUGS that came out of his STOMACH?), a weird appearance, and a stupid name. This meant that the character bombed right out of the gate, and was such an epic failure that he was quietly killed by the Weapon-X program.

68) THE HIGH EVOLUTIONARY
Whose Fault Is it: Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (took up every Annual one summer)
Angsty: 0
Boring: 3 ("everything must evolve" is just plain boring)
Over-Powered (x2): 3 (every power ever. I was gonna stat him once, then uncovered his Wikipedia article, and found it a dartboard full of all the powers in the rulebook. Just lame)
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 1
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 2 (a silly-looking suit of armour)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 15

-A stupid, ineffectual villain that has every power ever, but is still useless and has lost to absolutely everyone. His schemes are a GREAT potential motivation for a villain, yet he never does anything.

67) ANARKY
Whose Fault Is it: Alan Grant & Norm Breyfogle
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 2 (Grant was IN LOVE WITH HIM. He beat Darkseid in a debate, and survived the Omega Effect! He very nearly got revealed as the son of the Joker)
Angsty: 1 (he's a juvenile anarchist)
Boring: 3 (I never found him even remotely interesting- way too vague and speaks in riddles)
Over-Powered (x2): 2 (a little TOO easily confident and competent)
Xeroxed (x2): 1 (an original type of character in American comics, he is a rip-off visuall of "V", and was based off of a Judge Dredd character)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 1 (look at that damn outfit)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 1 (a fighting anarchist)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 17

-Anarky got a lot of play in the 1990s as Alan Grant's personal Author Avatar, a juvenile anarchist who debated politics with every DC character around. He seemed to have some fans, but his "Writer On Board" filibusters turned-off a lot of fans, and his general goofiness wore on everyone, and the character finally vanished. Through a very close call, he just avoided being revealed as the son of THE JOKER.

66) HAWK & DOVE
Whose Fault Is it: Steve Ditko & Steve Skeates
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (they still pop up all the time and are portrayed as a big deal- such as Blackest Night)
Angsty: 2 (especially once Dove died and Hawk kept going nuts)
Boring: 2 (Dove's biggest problem. Pacifism and super-heroics really don't mix)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 2 (Their origin's changed more than once, and Hank Hall is a RIDICULOUS history that involves turning evil, becoming Monarch, then changing his name for no reason, then dying, then being resurrected as a good guy for some reason)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 1 (Dove's pastel blue tights, especially if worn by a male)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2 (Hawk is totally this)
Stereotypical: 3 (each represents the worst stereotypes of liberals & conservatives, depending on who's writing)
SUCK FACTOR: 15

-Oh, Hank Hall. Poor, poor Hank Hall. Initially a Steve Ditko creation, the creator bailed right away over arguments on how to write the pair of Hawk & Dove with fellow creator Steve Skeates. Skeates felt that Ditko was writing Don "Dove" Hall as a wimpy pussy who couldn't decide on anything, and Ditko felt that Skeates was showing Hank "Hawk" Hall as a buffoonish moron who didn't think about anything. The idea Ditko wanted to present was that the two of them both have valuable things to offer, as well as having weaknesses. But it wasn't to be, and Hawk & Dove was a BIG failure, dying after six issues. They popped up in the Titans once or twice (which is why they're on here), before Don was killed in the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Then he got a hot female Dove (and don't think THAT wasn't a hard decision to make; making the peacenik lovey one a hot girl). Hank then went through a major dose of crazy, eventually becoming the Monarch (after Captain Atom was guessed too easily by fans as being the secret ID of the big new villain), which failed BRUTALLY, which resulted in a further shift into Extant, and by that point nobody cared. He was last seen fighting the Justice Society, using a renewed Dove as his love-slave. And some SUPER complicated stuff involving the two of them producing Dr. Fate, who was really the kid of Hawkman & Hawkgirl I.

-Dove was created with a somewhat noble, if flawed idea: a superhero who was a pacifist. Don preferred to talk his way out of fights, and use his agility to dodge criminals. Steve Ditko originally wrote him as kind of a weenie (co-creator Steve Skeates felt that Ditko didn't know what a 'dove' personality really was, being an Objectivist loony), but subsequent writers failed to really capture the character either, and he was summarily offed in Crisis, giving us a female Dove, who was for obvious reasons a lot more favoured as a pacifist. The character's never made a comeback (even though Chick Dove has), and is pretty much done for good. Lesson learned: Don't make your superheroes non-fighting pacifists.

65) JUDOMASTER II
Whose Fault Is it: Mark Wait, Geoff Johns, Dale Eaglesham, Gail Simone & Alex Ross
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 2 (can't speak English, her boyfriend died, and her life sucks because she's an orphan)
Boring: 2 (very little personality- her powers make fights with her BORING AS HELL TO WATCH)
Over-Powered (x2): 3 (a martial artist who can't be hit- AT ALL. Totally a Game-Breaker)
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (in her debut, she was able to speak English. They blatantly ignored this later for no real reason)
Fanservice: 1 (the Rising Sun logo is right over the boob. She did the splits a lot for no other reason than this)
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 1 (silly powers)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 1 (willing to kill)
Stereotypical: 2 (an Inscrutable Oriental who can't speak ANY English)
SUCK FACTOR: 17

-Judomaster II is a very new character, with only a tangential relationship to Rip Jagger, the first (who died in Infinite Crisis #7 along with scores of other jobber characters). With hard to explain powers, and an inability to speak English (apparenly the only Japanese person in comics with this problem), she's stuck around the background of JSA books, with a storyline about her & Damage hooking up making them both look REALLY shallow (ie. pure physical stuff, since they can't TALK TO EACH OTHER). She's primarily based off of her Kingdom Come appearances (much like Lightning), as that series keeps getting throwbacks mentioned under Johns & Ross' writing. They tried to make her character interesting, but I still don't feel it. And her power is just RIDICULOUS. She's a martial artist who CAN'T BE HIT as her power?!? Way to break the game, guys.



"ME-Hee-Hee! I wanna be like YOU-hoo-hoo! Walk like you! Talk like you! Scoobie-doobie-doobie!"

64) MARROW
Whose Fault Is it: Jeph Loeb, Scott Lobdell & Joe Madureira
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (was all over the place in the late-90s)
Angsty: 3 (hideous Morlock)
Boring: 1 (retread character)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 3 (literally brings nothing new to the table- just another Wolverine rip-off, and is on the same team with him!)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 1 (they tried to make her hot later)
Dated: 2 (very '90s)
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 3
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 17

-Marrow is yet another failed experiment from this time period, as she was brought in as one of the new Morlocks (since Marvel realized pretty quickly how stupid it was to kill off such a rich storytelling concept, no matter how cool the Mutant Massacre storyline was), then forced onto the X-Men after countless evil acts to see if they could reform her. Problem was, they made her ugly. I've gone off on this tangent before, but let's be perfectly honest: The comics-buying public, much like the Hollywood movie-goers, do NOT appreciate female characters when they're ugly. It's sexist, but it's true- think of Pantha in the Titans and how no one gave a shit when she was killed. If you want 'ugly', the best you can hope for is make them cute but boyish and flat-chested (think early Kitty Pryde or Jubilee), or do the classic "Beautiful Actress With Glasses" stereotype. But a big, muscular, manly Marrow with big ol' bone spikes sticking out everywhere just looks gross, and makes both men AND WOMEN (as they read comics for escapism just like we do, only they don't like their icons being ugly) dislike her, especially when given that classic "Terra/Danny Chase" attitude of bitching out and making fun of the rest of the team all the time. So the character was written out of the team within a couple years, and left in X-Limbo until she was de-powered in M-Day.

63) WRAITH
Whose Fault Is it: Javier Grillo-Marxuach & Kyle Hotz
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 2 (his family was killed by robots)
Boring: 1 (no real personality)
Over-Powered (x2): 2 (supposedly SO TOUGH AND SCARY)
Xeroxed (x2): 2 (a retread of the '90s themes of anti-heroes)
Mysterious/Confusing: 1
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 2 (Not actually '90s, but looks it)
Goofy (x2): 0
EXTREEEEEEME!: 3
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 17

-This guy was an AWFUL part of the second "Annihilation" storyline, debuting as a hyper-90s anti-hero who attacked Phalanx robots and made them afraid of him. He had dual whips and was super EXTREEEEEME and all that usual bullsh*t... about the most '90s-type character imaginable. So imagine my surprise when I discovered he was created FOR Annihilation, making him debut about eight years too late to do any good. It says something that among all the Cosmic Marvel-based stuff that came out of the "Annihilation Waves", Wraith has yet to reappear. His series stuck out like a sore thumb compared to all the other cross-over stuff, and I think even Marvel knew that he sucked and wasn't going to sell.

62) JACK FLAG
Whose Fault Is it: Mark Gruenwald & Dave Hoover
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 0
Angsty: 1 (often crippled; his brother already is)
Boring: 2 (weak motivation and no personality)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 2 (blatantly copied Grifter's mask)
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 3 (very much a '90s type of character)
Goofy (x2): 3 (he used to fight using a Gadget BOOM-BOX)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2 (supposed to be SUPER-cool)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 18

-Mark Gruenwald's "Captain America" run wasn't all great. Just look at THIS loser- a Boom-Box-wielding super-90s guy in Grifter's mask, trying to be a new Cap partner. He sucked out loud, they didn't use him for years, and they finally had Bullseye cripple him. And then all of a sudden Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning brought him into the "Guardians of the Galaxy" book... for no apparent reason? He didn't really do much of anything other than comment about stuff, he doesn't have any cool feats, and he's altogether really bland. I have no idea why anyone would keep using this character.



"My only natural enemies are the lawyers for the 'God of War' guys."

61) DRAX THE DESTROYER
Whose Fault Is it: Mike Friedrich & Jim Starlin
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 1 (Got a TON of play during Annihilation and similar-era stories.)
Angsty: 1 (his daughter is gone, and his surrogate daughter was sent away because his world is too violent)
Boring: 0
Over-Powered (x2): 1 (a little TOO bad-ass at times, to the point of parody)
Xeroxed (x2): 3 (originally he was a Hulk rip-off with some different Cosmic Hero powers. NOW, he's just Kratos painted green. Among comics' most embarassing examples)
Mysterious/Confusing: 1 (a weird origin, and a changing character)
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 0
Goofy (x2): 1 (his original Big Green Retard self)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 2 (Double-knife-wielding killer of men)
Stereotypical: 0
SUCK FACTOR: 18 (this is tough, because he IS rather bad-ass these days, But his old personality, plus his new ripping-off of Kratos add up to Suck)

-Drax the Destroyer has been through a lot, like most of the Cosmic Scene (note: It does NOT pay to be a small player in a small genre of Marvel Comics- crap just casually happens to you all the time). He showed up as a Starlin-creation to fight his Thanos creation, a resurrected human who was killed in a random act of evil by the Titanian Bad-Ass. Protecting his daughter (who grew up to be Moondragon), he became a recurring Thanos foe, then got killed & resurrected again, becoming a much more dopey Hulk rip-off who had some Cosmic Power & flight.

-Circa "Annihilation", he got ANOTHER comeback/re-do. The "Dumb Drax" was laughably easily killed off by Paibok the Power-Skrull, then regenerated into his current form. Looking pretty much like Kratos from "God of War", he's a Double-Blade-Wielding cynical ass-kicker, lipping people off and being a nasty bastard in combat, dropping most of his Hulk act along the way. I like his current form better (mainly because I HATED the old, lame Drax), but I'm still not that huge a fan. He's honestly a little too "1990s EXTREEEEEEEME! COMIX" for me. Plus, that scene where he killed Thanos was just WAY too anticlimactic for me. He runs in, beats down some goons, then casually rips out THANOS' heart while the purple one's back is turned? Then he just does the thing that Thanos was gonna do anyways (ie. free Galactus)? VERY weird to read, and just felt disjointed.




Pictures of Danny Chase in pain are like pornography to me.

60) DANNY CHASE
Whose Fault Is it: Marv Wolfman
Categories of Suck:
Over-Pushed (x2): 2 (Marv's own personal Wesley Crusher- we got a constant stream of this kid in the early-90s)
Angsty: 1 (whiny orphan)
Boring: 2 (A telekinetic kid? that's it?)
Over-Powered (x2): 0
Xeroxed (x2): 0
Mysterious/Confusing: 0
Fanservice: 0
Dated: 1 (very much a '90s annoying kid)
Goofy (x2): 1 (looks like Cousin Oliver from The Brady Bunch, and takes up the same role)
EXTREEEEEEME!: 0
Stereotypical: 1 (token runty kid)
SUCK FACTOR: 11 (a Cousin Oliver who ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE COUSIN OLIVER)

-Oh God, Danny Chase. For those nostalgic to the Wolfman era of the Titans (it didn't suck right after George Perez left, it took a while), we were forced to admit that Wolfman eventually just fell apart as a writer, incapable of doing anything good. That may have something to do with the fact that he doesn't really get much work nowadays, to be sure- his reputation from the early 90s Titans burning impressions of him. Why did Danny suck so bad? There's a short answer, and a long answer. Short answer: Danny was "The Scrappy" of that era of Titans. Does that explain it all? Long Answer: With Wolfman wanting another teen character to what was once a teenage team, Danny was stapled to the roster as the child of spies with Telekinetic powers.

-Unfortunately, Wolfman made him kind of a know-it-all and egomaniac pain in the ass, in addition to being ugly and dumb-looking. That was pretty much all the fans needed to COMPLETELY take a dump all over this character, to the point where Wolfman was basically FORCED by the fans writing in to get rid of Danny. A brief comeback as "Phantasm" (really Danny inside a cloak and mask pretending to be another hero, though Nightwing easily figured that one out) resulted in his death, merging with the souls of Azarath, and him leaving Titans continuity except for the occasional mention or comeback as a zombified Brother Blood follower. Let this be a lesson to comic book writers: don't try to recapture what happened ten-fifteen years ago; it will ALWAYS come in looking ham-fisted and lame.

[saint_matthew]

Dang, that was rather harsh, Horsenhero

it might be harsh, but as a friend once said to me: "The truth doesn't give a @#$% about your feelings." I'd have to say, that saying pretty much incapulates my feeling on this "Comics are sexist" rhetoric you hear even today. Contemporary mainstream comics are in no way sexist, regardless of the nonsense people (especially women) talk about them

But comics frequently comes out with pro-feminist stances, and they do still attempt to get female readers (I know I've read several Wizard articles about just that, and many a time Marvel AND DC have attempted to do things and write stories specifically to draw female fans), etc., and that's where Gamora-type outfits are silly.

(Iron Age) Gamora style outfits are always silly. But then again so is aiming for a female audience. Because in the end comic books aren't a girl thing... Don't get me wrong, they are also not a boy thing: They are a comic book fan thing.

I mean, I like reading comics at work on my breaks and stuff, but I couldn't imagine doing that with a Gamora-heavy slut outfit. It's just embarassing- it'd be like reading Maxim or Playboy in public. Plus, it makes comics harder to take seriously, especially in a public setting. For every "Maus" or "Watchmen", you just need one more Liefeldian Playboy-spread to make us all look like a bunch of horny fanboys.

When was the last time we really saw one of those porn costumes in a contemporary, mainstream comic?

I've actually known two separate women who laughed their asses off and choked in disgust just while looking at a Power Girl issue, so I know from what I speak about people treating comics like a joke because of stuff like that

Question: Where these two girls comic book fans? If not, you could have shown them any comic book at all & they would have laughed at it, as being immature. The content wouldn't have mattered. An for the record, i'm quite enjoying the current run of Powergirl (Its actually a well written character piece, though not as good as Batgirl).

Plus, it's unrealistic.

And a flying man is not?

Plus, it's the disparity in genders which is bizarre- women all in thongs, and the men all in... standard tights & armour and stuff?

Actually thats observational bias. There a test that shows this: Name 5 non golden age characters, from a contemporary main stream comic that wears a costume containing a thong. These days, most female chacters have quite substantive costumes.

And some girls may not have a problem with it, which is cool and fine. But I've read more than one angry blog by a girl specifically about Power Girl, so I know quite a lot of females dislike the trope. I'd argue a majority don't, even.

Yes, well feminist say a lot of things that turn out to be complete bullshit: In fact i sometimes wonder if they say anything that hasn't been shown to be complete bullshit by hard facts. I was recently on one of those blogs & personally refuted every statement in the owners manifesto (in this case it was specifically about DC), with cold hard facts, at which point the owner wrote an emotional tirade about how men attack women, blah blah blah, hits the rape/sexual violence/domestic assult buzz words & BANG, ban hammer (which is her right, after all it is her blog).

Not once did she or any of her readers bother to correct me on my statements. An i don't think i can better showcase why these websites exist. They exist, because some people like to have an evil force of complete power to blame for things, so they can play the perpetual victim (An that goes for pretty much any confrontational group, from NWO conspiracy kooks through to Creationists & Anti-Authority Photographers). An the reason these web sites exist: It is because victim groups love nothing more then "Confirmational Bias."

In the end there is no reason for comic book companies to target women as an audience. Its impractical, has been shown not to work & is generally counter productive. The only people comic book companies need target are fans of comic books, because in the end they are the only ones who are going to read them.

-M

[Jabroniville]

it might be harsh, but as a friend once said to me: "The truth doesn't give a @#$% about your feelings." I'd have to say, that saying pretty much incapulates my feeling on this "Comics are sexist" rhetoric you hear even today. Contemporary mainstream comics are in no way sexist, regardless of the nonsense people (especially women) talk about them... (cut)... When was the last time we really saw one of those porn costumes in a contemporary, mainstream comic?

An interesting point at the end there- comics HAVE improved. I didn't mention that before, but the Gamora power-thongs have mostly vanished (except for Gamora herself in "Guardians", where she looks ultra-silly as ever). I'm sure I could find a couple more examples if I scoured all the books on the rack (Typhoid Mary has recently shown up basically topless but with an entirely-open jacket). I haven't read something truly embarassing out of comics for quite a while. In the 1990s, however, we had an absolute nadir of this sort of thing.

I would have been authentically embarassed to be an adult comic book fan in the Image era, and so should have anybody else. Hell, look at the disappointment MALE fans, readers and creators had when Sue Storm of the FF debuted her super-slutty outfit in the mid-90s. It was rightly decried as stupid (not just because it was out of character either), and is now looked at as a goofy hilarity. Over-the-top fanservice is just embarassing. When it comes down to it, you just can't take a character seriously when they're dressed like a fool- whether it be a goofy mask or a dental-floss bikini, it holds them back. Same things holds for real life- a girl walking around dressed like a ho will be treated and looked at as a ho. I mean, check out this Lois Lane depiction- could you take a reporter seriously dressed like this?- http://img96.imageshack.us/i/25934756.jpg/

Question: Where these two girls comic book fans? If not, you could have shown them any comic book at all & they would have laughed at it, as being immature. The content wouldn't have mattered. An for the record, i'm quite enjoying the current run of Powergirl (Its actually a well written character piece, though not as good as Batgirl).

Actually, this is untrue. While both likely had reservations about the medium, they were rather accepting of the art form, while not being fans themselves. They'd watched super-hero movies, and been impressed with some works (Maus, some book by a female writer the one girl was a fan of). One girl actually read a JSA issue for a good while (the "Power Girl vs. Da Bomb" one), but dropped it the second PG showed up with a giant super-close-up boob-shot, laughing about "come on- REALLY?"

And a flying man is not?

Well yeah, but it's a very different kind of unrealism. Flying men & super-powers are acceptable parts of that world's reality. But in a medium where characters are supposed to be acting like real people (or at least by relatable)- a goal of any writer, things like this are goofy. Showing super-powers or super-feats is one thing, but characters acting in a way no real person would ever act is another.

Actually thats observational bias. There a test that shows this: Name 5 non golden age characters, from a contemporary main stream comic that wears a costume containing a thong. These days, most female chacters have quite substantive costumes.

Related to my admission above. Comics HAVE gotten better. There's still Gamora around, but it's not as bad as it used to be.

Yes, well feminist say a lot of things that turn out to be complete bullshit: In fact i sometimes wonder if they say anything that hasn't been shown to be complete bullshit by hard facts. I was recently on one of those blogs & personally refuted every statement in the owners manifesto (in this case it was specifically about DC), with cold hard facts, at which point the owner wrote an emotional tirade about how men attack women, blah blah blah, hits the rape/sexual violence/domestic assult buzz words & BANG, ban hammer (which is her right, after all it is her blog).

I'm enjoying the debate, but please watch the language. And I'm not just talking about feminists either- these are authentic FEMALE COMIC BOOK FANS who are disgusted and often drawn-off by their medium of choice. I'm as anti-feminist as anybody (I've been called a sexist MANY times for making off-hand remarks about women acting crazy or a particular woman being a feminazi). I've read blogs written by totally-reasonable, sarcastic and crabby comic book fans who were like any other comic fan except they had mammary glands, and they were laughing at comics because of this silliness, which still goes on. And from my own perspective, when I see excessive fanservice in a '90s comic, I get the impression of "we're horny loser males writing this, and you're a horny loser male reading it, so here's some BOOBS & BUTTS huh-huh". It's the kind of stuff Beavis & Butt-Head were satirizing.

In the end there is no reason for comic book companies to target women as an audience. Its impractical, has been shown not to work & is generally counter productive. The only people comic book companies need target are fans of comic books, because in the end they are the only ones who are going to read them.

I disagree completely that females shouldn't be targetted. There's always room for adding new fans to a community, or a fandom. Not just for feminist reasons- it's just MONEY. The more fans, the better. Women readers BECOME comic book fans. Hell, look at the history of comic books- there used to be TONS of female readers (granted, more towards romance-type books and Archie), and they would have a huge impact on the overall market. Heck, look at "Birds of Prey", a relatively non-stripperific book that nonetheless features tons of fanservice (for both genders), and it has tons of female fans. And the comic book fanbase is stronger for them.

Of course, I try not to take it too seriously - After all, it's only worth 1 point of "Suck".

[Setothes]

How about Apocalypse's first team the Alliance of Evil. I think they are worse than the Dark Riders myself.

Oh, good one. Stinger was painfully dull, and Tower got a little solo play, but was still pretty dull.

I do really like what they've done with Frenzy, since then, 'though, and I'm a sucker for duplication characters, so I wouldn't mind seeing Timeshadow back. (Or the hapless Gamma Flight member Flashback, if he ever 'discovers' via retcon that he isn't going to die if one of his temporal dupes die, because they come from alterate timestreams.)

Speaking of craptacular mutant groups, how about those Tunnelers? Blowhard, Berserker, Scaleface? Wow, I wanted to like Scaleface, and then giant mutant dragon-lizard woman gets shot by a cop and dies. Boring!

[death tribble]

That reminds me we have not seen Cameron Hodge and the Phalanx and that is all kinds of awful.

[Horsenhero]

Sorry for starting the whole HHHUUUUUUGGGEE debate over fanservice Jab and I'm sorry that you feel what I had to say is harsh...BUT, your own commentary is hypocritical. You don't like Pantha because she's ugly?? Ummm...why should that matter in a comic world everyone is supposed to be so very politically correct? You want realism in costuming? Why would anyone fight crime in anything but a uniform with pockets and hopefully at least a little kevlar? Women's costumes are slutty? what about Namor? Ka-Zar? The Aquarian? Hawkman? The new Wildcat (tomcat), he runs around naked. More unrealistic? We're debating costuming in a medium where six-pack abs are visible through the characters costumes, but when you get below the waist, every male character suddenly looks like a Ken doll. Where's the realism there?

Realism is the worst argument EVER.

You like nice girls? Fine. I like my women a little on the trashy side (to quote the song), but, I don't go around slamming Songbird or the Wasp or Liberty Belle or Sue Storm or Black Widow or Mockingbird or Raven or Kitty Pryde, etc. for their costumes. As for the examples given; everyone has "friends' they've shown things to as examples, but, so far I'm the only one who can provide an example that can be reached for confirmation. Using this in an argument is like using the "girlfriend in Canada" excuse given by Anthony Michael Hall's character in the Breakfast Club. I can't come out and call shenanigans, because there's the off chance it could be true...but it sounds like shenanigans.

As for the appeal thing. Look, I'll never like 90210, Gossip Girl, Romance Novels, Ashton Kutcher, Twilight, or any of those other female directed products, nor do I see any reason for them to try to market them to me.

You don't like slutty costumes because YOU don't like them...but trying to attach some sort of empirical reasoning to it is ludicrous.

BTW- Tyroc is redesigned and back in LSH, and Hawk & Dove are now part of Birds of Prey.

[saint_matthew]

Well yeah, but it's a very different kind of unrealism. Flying men & super-powers are acceptable parts of that world's reality. But in a medium where characters are supposed to be acting like real people (or at least by relatable)- a goal of any writer, things like this are goofy. Showing super-powers or super-feats is one thing, but characters acting in a way no real person would ever act is another.

You want poor writing, pick up a copy of spider-girl issue 2. The characterization is so poor it makes you wonder who was writing it & how the issue got past the editor. It really is that bad.

-M

[Horsenhero]

Well yeah, but it's a very different kind of unrealism. Flying men & super-powers are acceptable parts of that world's reality. But in a medium where characters are supposed to be acting like real people (or at least by relatable)- a goal of any writer, things like this are goofy. Showing super-powers or super-feats is one thing, but characters acting in a way no real person would ever act is another.

You want poor writing, pick up a copy of spider-girl issue 2. The characterization is so poor it makes you wonder who was writing it & how the issue got past the editor. It really is that bad.

-M

Yeah...well, apparently the way to push this comic is to have a teenage girl with no super-powers face off against the Rulk. That right there should give some indication of how ridiculous the whole thing is. All I needed was to see the promos for Spider-Girl to give it a pass.

[cassius335]

You want poor writing, pick up a copy of spider-girl issue 2. The characterization is so poor it makes you wonder who was writing it & how the issue got past the editor. It really is that bad.

-M

Yeah...well, apparently the way to push this comic is to have a teenage girl with no super-powers face off against the Rulk. That right there should give some indication of how ridiculous the whole thing is. All I needed was to see the promos for Spider-Girl to give it a pass.

It's also the issue in which her dad dies. Because apparantly Arana needed an "Uncle Ben moment"...

And, by the way, if Anarky is at 67, I can't wait to see where The General ends up (a guy who ended up as Anarky II purely because Fabian Nazca couldn't write Anarky 1 (and managed to put Lonnie on life support off-screen))

[Jabroniville]

Sorry for starting the whole HHHUUUUUUGGGEE debate over fanservice Jab and I'm sorry that you feel what I had to say is harsh...BUT, your own commentary is hypocritical. You don't like Pantha because she's ugly?? Ummm...why should that matter in a comic world everyone is supposed to be so very politically correct? You want realism in costuming? Why would anyone fight crime in anything but a uniform with pockets and hopefully at least a little kevlar? Women's costumes are slutty? what about Namor? Ka-Zar? The Aquarian? Hawkman? The new Wildcat (tomcat), he runs around naked. More unrealistic? We're debating costuming in a medium where six-pack abs are visible through the characters costumes, but when you get below the waist, every male character suddenly looks like a Ken doll. Where's the realism there?

Realism is the worst argument EVER.

You like nice girls? Fine. I like my women a little on the trashy side (to quote the song), but, I don't go around slamming Songbird or the Wasp or Liberty Belle or Sue Storm or Black Widow or Mockingbird or Raven or Kitty Pryde, etc. for their costumes. As for the examples given; everyone has "friends' they've shown things to as examples, but, so far I'm the only one who can provide an example that can be reached for confirmation. Using this in an argument is like using the "girlfriend in Canada" excuse given by Anthony Michael Hall's character in the Breakfast Club. I can't come out and call shenanigans, because there's the off chance it could be true...but it sounds like shenanigans.

As for the appeal thing. Look, I'll never like 90210, Gossip Girl, Romance Novels, Ashton Kutcher, Twilight, or any of those other female directed products, nor do I see any reason for them to try to market them to me.

You don't like slutty costumes because YOU don't like them...but trying to attach some sort of empirical reasoning to it is ludicrous.

BTW- Tyroc is redesigned and back in LSH, and Hawk & Dove are now part of Birds of Prey.

Well, if ya want empirical proof, just type any matter of "Comic, books, sexist, fanservice, etc" into Google and read how actual women (and many men) feel about the subject of sexism in comic books. I was giving you a real example because it went exactly with what I was referring to. Real, normal people willing to give comics a chance just laughing at excess fanservice.

My problem with Pantha being ugly isn't actually because of a failure to provide fanservice, but the fact that even women don't like to look at ugly women- even in girl-focused media the "homely girl" is always portrayed by a model-esque type. I dunno if they wanna play dress-up or what, but girls certainly don't want to associate or look at hideous characters either (look at Betty & Veronica's fashion-pages in Archie comics- they clearly associate as fans with attractive girls- part of the wish-fulfillment aspect of fiction, whereas men don't get as into the male appearances in general). And MEN obviously don't care for said gross-looking females either, so the character is left appealing to nobody. Plus, her appearance is goofy because she looks ridiculous- big kitty cheeks but she's all gross-looking and her legs are all digitigrade like a cat's. She doesn't have to be dressed like a hooker, but she should at least be pleasing to look at.

The "sexy male outfits" stuff I consider fine- and goes with what I was talking about with the Wolfman/Perez Titans. Stuff for the ladies as contrast to stuff for the men. You dole out equal fanservice and you're GOOD. Fanservice isn't sexist by design- it's just sexist if a medium that's tried to appeal to everybody is only showing WOMEN dressed in silly fanservice outfits. Like all things, the truth is in the balance and the medium.

Oh, here's some good articles on the subject:
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2009/05/1 ... or-stupid/
http://www.comixology.com/articles/229/ ... -to-Insult

(though the latter one makes a dumb point with the "fanservice is OK if the character looks like she can beat you up" thing)

And the Star Sapphires... right, THERE's another example of modern fanservice being silly to go along with the other stuff. They look like the Whore Corps. At least they're "all about love" and use force fields, so the skin-baring makes a tiny bit of sense.

[Jabroniville]

Hm, putting Cameron Hodge on it... I hadn't thought of that. I HATED him as a kid, but I think it was more of a general "I want him to die" thing, which you kind of WANT in a villain. He IS way over-powered for a villain, though (intangible, plus immune to psionic attacks). It's tough to say. Guys like the Alliance of Evil are terrible, but get kind of a pass since, like I mentioned in my criteria section, they're more set for one-shots. You only suck as bad as your footprint on the comic-book world. Technically, most of the WORST characters are all one-shot villains who never went anywhere.

Plus, crappy villains are honestly amusing, and I enjoy reading stories about them as a personal preference. It's when the characters overwhelm the books, or appear constantly that their suck really stands out- SuperPro is easily-ignored as a silly little thing (his book is fun to read for that), whereas a more boring hero that shows up everywhere is worse.

[Unbeliever]

I don't want to weigh in that much on the fanservice stuff. My biggest complaint would be that when it's out of character. So, Gamora gets kind of a pass -- she's always dressed that way. Lois Lane, on the other hand, always kind of surprises me. I mean, this is supposed to be an adult, established career woman, right?

Then again, this may just be part of the fact that in several decades of characterizations, in virtually every medium known to man, the DCAU is the only one that has managed to give a decent gloss on that character.

[Horsenhero]

How can Cameron Hodge not be on the list of suck? He's goofy (he wore a cardboard cut-out of his human form). He was over-pushed (How long did that agonizingly bad Genosha plotline with him at the center go?). He's over-powered (You listed just a couple things). He is to Lawyers what Mojo is to TV producers. He sucks hard. He should be on the list.

Hmmm...I think this list is gonna cause a lot of friction between Jab and me.

[Jabroniville]

Wait! I remembered now that I'm consolidating a bunch of guys under a single heading, so that frees up a spot anyways! And yeah, Hodge sucked.