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Supervillian RPG

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Supervillian RPG

Postby Toon » Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:20 am

This fall I plan on running a supervillian rpg where the player characters will be villians instead of heroes. You'd think this would be easier and more fun but actually has been a pain in the neck for trying to figure out how to run the thing. I've come up with a few ideas to prevent problems but would love to have some feedback. I have a city all set up since I jus used it in another campaign luckily. So far my ideas for running it are . . .

1. Players are not allowed to be single minded blood thirsty villians who just wanna destroy things. I don't want the first game being "I use my gadget power and make an atomic bomb and destroy the whole city, I win." or some like minded annoyances.

2. Divide the city into sectors for the villians to take over from heroes or other villians. Thereby giving them objectives instead of just "take over the city"

3. Not let them have very powerful villians, ie no headquarters, minions, etc. And possibly have them work for a more powerful villian. They can establish their criminal empire when they get enough capital from robbing banks.

So yeah, mostly missions, objectives, whatever will be the hard part. Any suggestions are appreciated. I think it could be a fun game for a lot of GMs to run. :twisted:
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Re: Supervillian RPG

Postby Demongg » Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:45 am

Toon wrote:This fall I plan on running a supervillian rpg where the player characters will be villians instead of heroes. You'd think this would be easier and more fun but actually has been a pain in the neck for trying to figure out how to run the thing.
....
So yeah, mostly missions, objectives, whatever will be the hard part. Any suggestions are appreciated. I think it could be a fun game for a lot of GMs to run. :twisted:



I've been really interested in trying this... I'm working on ideas. My normal game gang isn't much into it so I'm trying a test run on Player-by-Post at EN World with "Marvel Comics Minions" the 3rd Tier level badguys like Porcupine and Batroc the Leaper.

I'll give you any feedback once it gets rolling - I should be beginning it this weekend sometime.

I'd suggest instead of sounding "heavy handed" with the RULES that the players MUST FOLLOW, take a look at the "genre convention" style of writing up these rules - a good sample is the Teen Campaign in the Claremont Academy article in the new ANNUAL.
It lists 4-5 genre conventions to give ideas to players about what to/not to do, and isn't so heavy.

the biggest thing you have to have is "buy in" for the REASONS you want to run a SuperVillain game. Once the players all understand WHY they're playing a supervillain game - the FUN genre conventions that they should play up and enjoy, THEN destruction shouldn't be the things on their minds.

Remember villains are the heroes of their own stories.
Not many villains consider themselves evil.


the biggest suggestion I would have in the beginning is to have them working for someone. It's sort of cliche but for THIS game it would provide the structure you'll need.
Knowing that "ATOMIC BRAIN" will incinerate you at the drop of a hat in the follow-up meeting if you back-talk or fail in a mission parameter will help keep them in line. But have fun with the relationships between them too...

I'm happy to continue discussing ideas if you like.
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Postby BerkaZerka » Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:42 pm


Ha! I beat The Trapster to the punch on this one! :wink:

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Postby ghostman76 » Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:36 pm

BerkaZerka wrote:

Ha! I beat The Trapster to the punch on this one! :wink:

BZ


Wow BZ. Fancy shootin' there Tex. You're getting much quicker on the draw when it comes to Link-Fu. :lol:
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Postby palehorse » Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:37 pm

Just cross-pimping for another game system for a minute... the upcoming Necessary Evil for Great White Games' Savage Worlds rules is a PC's as supervillains game. The premise is, aliens invaded and wiped out all the worlds' superheroes. The villains are forced to band together to stop them.
(I was lucky enough to get to proofread it; it's damn cool!)
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Postby The Trapster » Sat Aug 28, 2004 2:59 am

palehorse wrote:Just cross-pimping for another game system for a minute... the upcoming Necessary Evil for Great White Games' Savage Worlds rules is a PC's as supervillains game. The premise is, aliens invaded and wiped out all the worlds' superheroes. The villains are forced to band together to stop them.
(I was lucky enough to get to proofread it; it's damn cool!)
WOW!

What are the Savage Worlds rules like? Would Conversion be hard?
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Postby The Trapster » Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:00 am

DUpe! Clearence! :oops:
Last edited by The Trapster on Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby palehorse » Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:55 pm

The Trapster wrote:
palehorse wrote:Just cross-pimping for another game system for a minute... the upcoming Necessary Evil for Great White Games' Savage Worlds rules is a PC's as supervillains game. The premise is, aliens invaded and wiped out all the worlds' superheroes. The villains are forced to band together to stop them.
(I was lucky enough to get to proofread it; it's damn cool!)
WOW!

What are the Savage Worlds rules like? Would Conversion be hard?


I'd classify them as 'rules-medium' (as opposed to rules-light or rules-heavy). They supers rules that are introduced in Necessary Evil are very similar to the powers in BESM, so I don't imagine conversion would be difficult.

Stats and skills are ranked on a rising-die scale, where a d4 stinks, a d6 is average, etc.; d12 is normally the max for normals humans, but supers can go past this, to the d12+X range. (d20 is the one die that ISN'T used... lol) Just like anything else, you're really better off just sticking with converting the concept rather than trying to come up with an A=B hard number conversion, IMO. (But I think that's true of any conversion, personally.)

The Savage Worlds test drive rules are over here if you want to check them out:
http://www.peginc.com/Downloads/index.htm
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Postby Dr.Chi » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:10 pm

I've ran a Super Villian campaign before. (Though not using the M&M system)

There are some simple things you can do where you don't have to have the players follow any sort of rules.

1. Money Money Money Monnnney!
You can't have HQ, equipment, doomsday devices, etc without it.
I'd first institue a wealth system. But don't sweat it if they try to circumvent you with the "I'm rich!" thing. Make sure they explain how their rich. We'll get to how you'll deal with it soon enough.

2. The primary driving force for nearly all PC villians will fall into one of these four catagories:
Dominance (be it World, City or Otherwise)
Power (but if it's to exert it over others it becomes dominance)
Wealth (even if it's to support dominance or power)
Meaness (some villians are mean, just to be mean)

Once you figure out which one(s) your players are driven by it becomes easier to manipulate...I mean GM them. 8)

3. Consequences. Here's the main difference for your villian campaign. What happens when in a Hero campaign the heroes lost the fight? Generally not much, they lick their wounds maybe mourn for a fallen combatant. Villians, however, if they lose they go to prison or some such. Of course you don't have to RP the prison, in fact you can even start the next mission under the assumption they escaped.
However, in my campaign, if the villian was ever caught by Heroes..they lose everything. Headquarters, gone. Bank accounts, gone. Minions, gone, sometimes. Cool devices, gone. The newfangled "Lay-Zer" you ordered from ACME...gone.
Basically the villian has to start from scratch with his possessions.
Most cheap "thug" hinchmen would've split when the authorities started seiging the "secret" hideout.
If they were independantly wealthy, theres a chance being on the authortie's radar like you were when captured let to them discovering your funds and seizing them.

This perpetuates their need for money. And makes them a little more cautious. In terms of keeping them from going too crazy with their evilness.

The misconception your "would be" villians will make at the begining is thinking that since their evil they have nothing to fear. That they have nothing controlling them. This is partially true, they won't have the moral or legal boundaries like heroes. But they do have something controlling them, Money!

Anyway's I'll stop rambling cause I don't know if any of this is helping you or not.

But running a Villian campaign can be a blast, and hilarious.

"Hey Demonlord, I thought you were going out today to lure some newbie hero into a deathtrap....and why are you peaking through the corner of the window?"
"Shhhh....that nosey old lady who lives across from this abandoned warehouse keeps staring over here... I'm having trouble sneaking out."
"Um...why don't you just kill her?"
"Because stupid, I don't know if she has family who would miss her. We don't need the Pigs snooping around here, do you realize how hard it is to find an abandoned warehouse in such a centralized location???"



Also play off a few things unique to villians, such as:
Minions no matter how loyal are dumb. If they were smart they'd be Villians. They're always accidently telling secrets, leading heroes to the lair, messing up the equipment...etc.

There's almost always that one hinchmen or underling who wants to be leader, and will do all he can to sabotoge your plans to make you look uncredible, but without the brains to pull it off correctly. Without you finding out of course.

Villians are always having turf wars with other villians, but they also have to avoid the cops/heroes in the process.


Also, this isn't nessessary, but our campaign started at low level (the PCs were trying to make a name for themselves...having to work as hinchmen themselves at times) and they would work their way up to try to show themselves as real super-villian contenders. Think GTA3 with powers.

I had it just as easy though making missions for them as powerful as when they were low-level.
It's actually really hard to be an effective villian...you have to deal with so much more than heroes, and to top it all off you never know who you can trust.
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Postby elspark » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:23 pm

This is a great place for ideas: The Evil Overlord List. Basically, it's a long list of things that stupid evil overlords do in the movies and books. Play with the list, but don't let your players see it. Be creative. =)

Maybe some bigger villain uses this list and so is extremely dangerous. He'd probably go to great lengths to protect the source of his power.

Or, a hero knows about this list and exploits any weaknesses he sees in the player's defenses/plans.
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Postby BerkaZerka » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:14 pm

That list is classic!

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Postby goodtremere » Thu Sep 30, 2004 6:12 pm

We ran a villains game (not in M&M) that turned out pretty well. It was a short campaign, but it was fun to simultaneously advance the campaign plot while crafting sneaky plans against one's party mates.
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Criminals, Crime & Cruelty netbook

Postby Silverback » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:33 am

Silverback wrote:Something I've been working on for the MSH RPG is the Criminals, Crime & Cruelty netbook, which could easily be adapted to M&M, gives tips and inspiration (hopefully) on how to run villainous heroes and coping with those interfering heroes!

It's still in the Alpha stage of development so would appreciate any feedback you guys may have.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/genesisproject/


This is still in the Alpha stage but it currently stands at 116 pages of information about running criminals and super villains. Any constructive feedback would be welcome.
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Re: Criminals, Crime & Cruelty netbook

Postby Webhead » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:37 am

Silverback wrote:
Silverback wrote:Something I've been working on for the MSH RPG is the Criminals, Crime & Cruelty netbook, which could easily be adapted to M&M, gives tips and inspiration (hopefully) on how to run villainous heroes and coping with those interfering heroes!

It's still in the Alpha stage of development so would appreciate any feedback you guys may have.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/genesisproject/


This is still in the Alpha stage but it currently stands at 116 pages of information about running criminals and super villains. Any constructive feedback would be welcome.


From my (very) brief glimpse of the book, it looks really cool. I'll have to sit down and read over it a bit more at home, but I think this could be a very useful book!
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Postby Blackhawk » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:14 pm

If you guys are interested, Necessary Evil for Savage Worlds is now on sale in pdf format from Pinnacle/Great White Games.

The superheroes try to fight the alien invasion... and are wiped out!

Now, it's up to the supervillains to fight back against the aliens who have taken over the world... that rightfully belongs to them! :twisted:
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