spacemonkey wrote:Beside of Hit Points, what are the big differences between the rules of M&M and D&D, and how much of these differences can i remove with the help of "Masterminds Manual" and "Warriors and Warlocks"?
Echoing what others have said. M&M and D&D have similarities due to M&M1e being based on the d20 SRD but they are more different than just the toughness save. D&D has:
- Levels - While similar in concept to PL (being a rough measure of power), levels in D&D are the mechanism by which characters improve, gain access to ever increasing abilities, and increase their hit points and saves. You can almost think of each level as a prepurchased bundle of M&M traits with a couple points for discretionary spending.
- Classes - The class you choose defines the abilities you have access to and gain when you level. Imagine a Paragon that can never buy anything that isn't listed on the template. There is multiclassing and a few other exceptions that let you branch out.
- Description and Exception based powers - There are a ton of spells, class abilities, and feats in D&D. Each one is its own self contained set of rules; often they are just packages of standard effects but sometimes they are whole new things unto themselves. Since I began playing D&D back in the 80s I would notice patterns in the spells and other abilities and mentally break them down into similar effects and wonder "if there is a Fireball spell, why can't I make an Acidball spell that is the same but acid?". Then I found effect based games like Champions/Hero and eventually M&M (not to say that effect based doesn't have its own problems).
- Balance secondary - D&D4e's unrelenting mantra of balance aside, not all classes, races, spells, etc are created equal. There are plenty of loopholes and other exploits.
- Everything Premade - While you can always house rule and make stuff up to your heart's content, all the races, classes, feats, spells, and other abilities in D&D are made for you... unbalance and limiting as it may be some people like that. Think of M&M as a cookbook and D&D as a restaurant menu. A cookbook shows you how to make meals and may even show you the principles of making up your own meals. A restaurant menu gives you a set of choices; they may be your favorite foods and maybe you could persuade the cook to put curry on your steak but don't try and order authentic New Mexican food at an Indian restaurant.
- Damage and HP doen't scale together - M&M has a nicely scaling Damage/Effect system that keeps combats taking about the same time no matter the PL of the campaign as long as the opponents are in the same range as one another. D&D characters start out where they can barely take a hit or two from a sword and eventually can jump of 100ft towers, be turned into pincushions by arrows, be stabbed by an army, etc. Some of this can be explained by HP being abstract and representing luck, fatigue, wounds, skill, etc. But then you can get strange behavior as a player realizes that they can't die if they swim across the lava because it will only do X amount of damage and they have more HP than that. In essence, all D&D characters start out as minions and eventually become superheroes.
spacemonkey wrote:Now my group and i want to play some fantasy scenarios, and they asked my to use a more "classic" system like D&D.
Now it really depends on what your players meant when they said that. Do they just want to play a fantasy game with some of the tropes of D&D (dungeons, loot, etc.) or is what they want exactly D&D and if so which version?
I like playing D&D on occasion and it has been the staple of my gaming career. I find it harder to run than M&M; I can run M&M on the fly and often use mini statblocks like "Dragon PL 10 Flight, Fire Breath, Fear Aura [Burst 30, Will, dazed/stunned]". D&D 3+ make me feel like I need bigger stat blocks than that and there is often a great deal of looking up to see what the powers do... 4e does have statblocks that are a dream to use but doesn't feel like D&D to me (your mileage may vary). Some will say (and I'd could agree depending on GM/players) that D&D has more flavor for the genre of D&D.
All that said you can run a very nice fantasy game with D&D. You just need to ensure that the characters feel like D&D games rather than superheroes... that means limiting some powers, requiring some complications, and making a few tweaks. Here are a bunch of forum posts for fantasy D&D, including some conversions of the D&D bestiaries. I'm working on a document myself as I've become interested in running some fantasy M&M (after reading Pathfinder).viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37318viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24080viewtopic.php?p=612812#p612812http://atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=36542viewtopic.php?f=20&t=40779viewtopic.php?f=20&t=40735viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33246viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34253http://atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37318viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34739&start=405http://atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=40779viewtopic.php?p=367524#p367524
If they want D&D and you are willing to run it, then I'd recommend getting the Pathfinder core rules, a module or adventure path, and maybe some supplements. Pathfinder made some nice (IMHO) changes to make classes a little more interesting and balanced some rules (so they say). Plus it is actually in print and they make some awesome adventures. Their SRD his here http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
Recently after reading some D&D fantasy novels, I was thinking that M&M (with a few tweaks) would simulate the novels better than D&D. The rules of D&D play out very differently than most of the novels... rarely to I see healing in novels, people cast a truly bizarre collection of spells (some super high level and the low level ones do a bunch of damage) and there are so many times that a high level monster/character is taken out in one hit (and the action isn't described as being more than a round so I can't buy HP as luck/stamina ablation).
I've actually been torn on running Pathfinder, Fantasy M&M, or continuing the Superhero M&M game that I was running before our baby was born. Pathfinder is appealing because modules to most of the work for me and I just need to do a little prep... plus I'm hankering for some fantasy. Sometime soon we will actually get to play again.